discord=more_preservation

This is an interesting idea. But I do not think Szeth would ascend to honor. Don't Honorspren really dislike Highspren? One idea I have for this is because the Highspren use rules and an excuse to do anything, and the Honorspren (the spren most connected to Honor) don't see anything particularly honorable about that, other than an excuse to commit injustices a lot of times. Szeth was able to become a Skybreaker because of his devotion to the law as he saw it, which made him do many dishonorable things, and he is now bonded to a highspren. Thanks for having this moved to the correct forum! The thing that makes me think that Odium is not the Broken one is the deathrattle that says: I don't see Todium saying this, to be honest. I could see Kaladin possibly saying this. But I don't know. I have a suspicion that whoever says this will eventually be the one who rules based on the other deathrattle. I also feel that the entire arc of the cosmere is moving towards Adonalsium being restored*, with the shards on Roshar uniting, and then all the remaining vessels trying to unite with as many other shards as possible. And a distinct possibility that Hoid is trying to manipulate the vessels to do this for some reason (selfishly to take the combined shards for himself or as a way of fixing what he did in the past). *or at least the shards starting to unite again; each shard is sort of crazy on its own and only together would they do things correctly

OK, so I just finished up with the Sunlit Man, and have been thinking about what this means for Stormlight, specifically its ending. From the WoB, we know that the entire ending is somewhere in Books 1-2. One theory that comes to mind is that all three shards on Roshar are going to unite. In other words, Dalinar's visions to "unite them" mean to unite the three shards. That includes uniting the splintered parts of Honor. Does Dalinar take up the three shards? I, of course, do not know if this is actually the case, but thought I'd throw this out here for discussion. Here are some reasons this might be the case: This will help lead to the Roshar/Scadrial conflict that Sanderson seems to be setting up: Feel free to disagree. I'm not convinced of this theory. I'd just like to know what you all think. Of course, this kind of seems like a rehash of Mistborn Era 1, so it probably won't go in this direction. But who knows...?

I like most of what you said! You are most likely right. But, I'm still not 100% convinced (also sorry for the double post; I didn't know the rule) I didn't know you were a foreigner. I'm not trying to explain past vs. present. I understand that the novel was written in past tense. The point is that the sentence is in the past perfect tense. The past perfect is used when something happened in the past, before something else. Often, that implies that something is different now. Something like "Until Sazed took up the shards, Ruin had always been stronger." This would strongly imply that after Sazed took up the shards, Ruin is no longer stronger. I compared it to the present perfect because it has a similar construction, and a quick reading of the sentence might make people believe that Ruin is still stronger at the time Kelsier is talking to Sazed (i.e., they'd interpret it like the present perfect). To further explain, Sanderson chose the past perfect, not another tense (like past simple; "Ruin was always stronger") to mislead us while also giving us a hint. Sanderson wants us to believe that Ruin is stronger, just like he wanted us to believe that Vin was the Hero of Ages. He can't just say "Ruin used to be stronger." Instead, he uses the tense to imply that something has changed: "Ruin had always been stronger." The past perfect is what is important, not simply that it is in the past tense. It could be an ingenious misdirection! That's not how I interpret the mists. They're not Ruin's mists or Preservation's mists. They're Harmony's mists: WoB in 2015: Brandon Sanderson Chapter Seventeen The Mists Form In writing this book, I had to nail down a few worldbuilding issues I'd been contemplating even before the first trilogy ended. What would happen to the mists, for instance, once Sazed took over and became Harmony? The mists, obviously, are a big part of the series. It didn't make sense—either narratively or worldbuilding-wise—to lose them completely. However, they'd been created as an effect of Preservation trying to use his essence to fight against Ruin's destruction of the world. So . . . wouldn't they go away? I decided that Sazed would still send them. They're part of the nature of the world now. To acknowledge what had happened, they wouldn't come every night any longer. But they would come. They were changed in that they are no longer simply the raw power of Preservation; they're now a part of Harmony—so they no longer pull away from Hemalurgy in the same way as they used to. They still have the odd effect of being able to power Allomancy. (And Feruchemy as well—if one knows how to do it.) The mists are, in part, the raw power of creation. And when one is favored of Harmony, the mists have a greater effect than they might otherwise have. We'll see more of this later. The Alloy of Law Annotations (Nov. 30, 2015) In the same vein, the God Metals aren't strictly Ruin's or Preservation's anymore. The God metals are the "bodies of the gods" and reflect the vessel. But how could Atium, Ruin's power, turn into Harmonium without Preservation's power? Well, in the transition state before returning to metallic form, it is "Unkeyed investiture" (possibly in the cognitive realm) unlinked to any Shard, similar to what Moonlight used to turn into an Elantrian. The unkeyed investiture gets converted into Harmonium without the need of Preservation's power. Lastly, are we sure that the shadow following Harmony is a reflection/representation of Ruin? Leras was described as a silhouette in the mists. The shadow could be the excess power of Preservation, a sort of "cognitive shadow" of the power not being used. There are WoB where he states that investiture itself can gain sentience if not part of a vessel. Sazed prefers Harmony over preservation (as you've said), and the shadow mimics Sazed's movements. It wants to do what Harmony desires to do but can't always: preserve. Additionally, Wayne doesn't see the shadow as ruinous. He just sees it as "dark" like a shadow: This feels a lot like when Elend saw the mist spirit. It doesn't seem ominous. It is holding out its hands toward Wayne. It's dark because it looks like a shadow, not because it is bad/scary. It mimics Harmony because it knows what Sazed's natural intent is (to preserve).

This is true, but people generally don't like ruining a note to create discord. They like planned discord, which depends on which notes/chords were previously played.

Thanks for the repy @alder24 Sorry for the late response. Are we sure about this? Isn't it possible that after Sazed became Harmony, the shards merged, changing Atium's essence? The Atium locked in the cycle could get converted into Harmonium because its essence/identity changes (similar to forgery). In other words, Atium was Ruin's essence, but there is no Ruin anymore. In Era 1, Lerasium didn't seep into the world, only Atium did. But Harmonium is seeping into the world in Era 2. I think it's possible that only the Atium is being converted, which weakens Ruin's influence. This quote is compatible with the idea that Ruin is now weaker. Ruin is subservient to Preservation because there is less of Ruin's power in Harmony. This is a perfect red herring! What we learn from Kelsier is (1) the powers are in imbalance and (2) that Ruin used to be stronger but isn't anymore. The last line of that quote is "Ruin had always been stronger." This is the past perfect, not the present perfect. Let's take two sentences: (1) I have always liked him. (2) I had always liked him. In the first sentence, I still like like the person I'm referring to. In the second, I no longer like that person. The first implies something started in the past and is still ongoing. The second implies that something used to be in the past, but is not longer true in the present (because something happened in between).

Thanks!

OK, I don't know if I've seen this theory before, but I think it's definitely possible: Discord will be more Preservation than Ruin. Most people assume that Discord will be more Ruin than Preservation for several reasons. But I don't think that is the case. I'm going to try to articulate in a few points: (1) Atium was burned by Elend and crew right before Sazed took up the shards of Preservation and Ruin; (2) Major discord happened in Era 1 because of Preservation's influence; (3) Sanderson uses music and psychophysics a lot to help us understand the shards (i.e., discord happens a lot when you are "preserving" a note too long). 1) From what I understand, Leras splintered off a part of Ati's power to create Atium. As long as Leras, as Preservation, could block Ati from retrieving it, Ati was somewhat weakened. This helped make sure Ruin could not overpower Preservation. When Vin takes up Preservation's power, she is equal to Ati's power. Ati's goal was to get the Atium and thus have the upper hand. However, Elend and his Atium mistings burned it before he could regain it. The atium should theoretically regenerate, but that takes time. The power that was burned is in a transition state, waiting to seep back into the world at the Pits of Hathsin. But this takes hundreds of years. Merely minutes after all the Atium was burned by Elend, Vin kills Ati, and Sazed takes up their shards. The Atium in the transition state would not turn back into Atium. It would turn into Harmonium, equal parts Preservation and Ruin. Half of the Atium that was burned got converted into Preservation's power. Sazed, holding both shards, would have access to it (i.e., Leras is dead, and no one is acting as a gatekeeper). Harmony, therefore, has a tiny bit more Preservation in them than they do Ruin. 2) Discord happens whenever the two shards are out of balance. It doesn't just happen when Ruin is stronger than Preservation. Case in point, Era 1 was dominated by Preservation's influence. Preservation had "locked up" Ruin in the Well of Ascension. The Lord Ruler was Preservation's idea, and the Lord Ruler was not a harmonious leader. As a matter of fact, I would argue he created quite a bit of discord. 3) If there's anything we've learned from the Rhythm of War, it's that Brandon Sanderson uses music to help us understand investiture. The right musical harmonies can be used to combine stormlight and voidlight for example. Harmony, meaning Sazed, is currently in harmony, when using music as a metaphor. But how could there be discord (i.e., something not in harmony)? Well, there are a couple ways. One way would be to play sort of random notes that aren't octaves, perfect fifths etc. That would be something like "ruining" the music. People would hate that. Another way, however, is to keep playing a note even as the rest of the music moves on. You're "preserving" a note that doesn't harmonize with new chords. This creates discord. People LOVE discord in music, especially when it is mixed with harmony. You're not ruining the music, but making it better. Hence the " His name shall be Discord, yet they shall love him for it." Just a crazy idea (that I think is just crazy enough to be correct)!