alder24

Inquisitors weren't under allomantic control of TLR, they were just devoted.

Both gold and Malatium are showing the past and how your different past choices would have affected your present, not how your present choices would affect your future. That's why it's comparable to Dalinar's visions as they are all focusing on the past, even RoW one. You would need electrum or atium to see that. And while you are already inhaling Mists, why don't you just wait a minute to Ascend, then you have far better future vision at your disposal. For all we know, only VIn was able to use Mists, because she was chosen to be the next Vessel. Congrats! You're so close to 1000

Lerasium turning people into a Mistborn is just a side effect, not its main purpose. That probably explains why Lerasium alloys can be burned by anybody and will turn them into alloy-Misting while Atium alloys can be burned only by alloy-Mistings. And I think that is also the explanation why Shardblades can't be used by anybody - they are alloys of Honor's and Cultivation's god metals, they would most likely act like Atium alloys and not like Lerasium alloys. That's why you need a connection first. Alloying them with Lerasium would probably grant you that connection. There is also this WoB from 2019, that says burning a Shardblade would be hard, so it seems to confirm the previous WoB: And there are other god metals that can be burned by anybody:

I think SH3! SH2 shoud be about Kel's body and creating Bands!

Tbf every Awakened object can be called a robot. It has a singular purpose, which it performs automatically in a specific way as it was imagined/programmed by Awakener and it replace a human effort. It even resembles a human being. That's the definition of a robot. Bridge 4 is not a robot, it's a machine, it has to be steered to be able to move. It isn't automatic. But Nightblood is the closed to advanced robot:

Solelight sounds great. Good pun. Problem with Mistlight/Ashlight is that Ruin's gaseous investiture also manifests as the Mist, so calling only Preservation's one as a Mistlight is misleading. All light names that we know are associated either with a source (storm/tower), the Rhythm (war) or the Shard's Intent/way of influencing (life/void). By using this, Bloodlight would be a great name for Ruin's as it's how Hemalurgy works. Breaths could be called Soullight, because its source is a soul, but also something like Giftlight could be used, as it's close to Shard's intent. Mistlight for Harmony would be fitting, as he combines both Ruin's and Preservation's Mists, and Mists are the source of this "light". No idea for Preservation. And I think those are all Shard's gaseous investiture that we have seen.

There is one more Shard left. And it is unclear if this is the "Survival" Shard, or "Wisdom-like" Shard that realized survival isn't the best option anymore (WoB and WoB) or just someone else. Survival shard might be Wisdom-like Shard, so it will be the last one. Or Wisdom-like Shard is Virtuosity but isn't Survival Shard. Or Virtuosity is Survival Shard, but isn't Wisdom-like Shard. Survival Shard might be one of those that got introduced lastly, but I find it unlikely (RAFO - Invention was mentioned by Harmony to disappear after initial contact, or this might be the Shard without a planet but isn't the Survival one - WoB, look at footnote). There is still many possiblities. I personally think that Virtuasity is Wisdom-like Shard, but isn't Survival Shard.

You can steal more with one spike than just what was said on hemaurgic table. It all depends on the Intent and where the spike was placed. I guess because of absences of new spikes to create new generations Kandra started to experiment on their own, and apparently succeeded. However ReLuur belongs to the third generation so it is very possible that it was TLR experiments and he gave new Blessings to a selected few. What would pewter do, I have no idea, iron gives Blessing of strength, so I doubt pewter would do the same.

Something like that. As long as those neutrons have enough energy and are sent into fissile material it will work. Bonus? I want it to be more dangerous! Making whole exposed body radioactive is a bonus! Neutrons are the best type of radiation! Well, here I'm lacking. We're digging deeper and deeper into physics. Looking at Yukawa potential it looks like only that coupling constant can be changed like you said. There is also a boring explanation that investiture directly provides energy to protons/neutrons to break them apart, releasing energy from strong nuclear forces. But that isn't manipulation of strong force and it's just... lacking physics? Oh yes that would be just beautiful I don't like the term supermassive, I hope there is no supermassive black hole in SR. It would complicate life for Shards But that can still work with gravitons. They mediate force of gravity, so the investiture "makes" an massive object in SR and ignores planet's gravity, binding you to that object, and gravitons would sitll work but now in SR. But trying to explain it from a general relativity perspective? Like Brandon said, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Gravity of objects in PR curves also CR (black hole have time dilation effects in CR as well as PR - https://wob.coppermind.net/events/467/#e14726). So it might also somehow disturb SR but it's timeless and spaceless so not really? But if big amounts of investiture disturbs CR/PR like Shards, Stormfather etc. then that spiritual mass created by gravitation lashing would curve spacetime in PR/CR in a proper way. So that does make sense on an individual level, and that's good enough for me, so let's say connection can explain why it doesn't affect anybody else. Yes, but if the same is applied to nuclear forces things get weird. Consider H2 nucleus, proton and neutron binded by a strong force. You create a spiritual neutron connected to the proton, and it changes the force to be binded to the proton and spiritual neutron. Real neutron is no longer bound by a strong force so it flies away. At this point no energy is released, as the "same" force is still being applied. Then you stop the surge, spiritual neutron disappears, strong force wants to come back and bind back the proton and the neutron, by the neutron is now gone, so it can't do that. And this is the moment when the energy from strong force is being released. Does it makes sense to you? It works even better with He3, you seperate neutron from protons and you are left only with He2, and it just breaks apart. Derailing? We hijack that train and shoot it straight into the skies escaping the Milky Way!

Yes, you can, so either you have to find fissile material that decays by releasing neutrons, or make 2 elements, one is fissile/fissionable, the other is neutron emitter. However Pu238 is not fissile, it's fissionable. It can be split only with fast neutrons but can't sustain chain reaction, so it's not fissile like Pu239 or U235. But we are talking about artificially sustained chain reaction, so as long as we have investiture, we can create more elements by using weak force, necessary to sustain our chain reaction. So any fissionable material can be used as we can suround it with a neutron emitter. It would be extremely radioactive. It isn't held by degeneracy pressure so by beta decay it would just decay into H and break away and release energy. But an atom made just out of neutrons would look so pretty! YES! I don't know how much proton radiation is comparable to neutron radiation in terms of danger. But still so much energy! I see your point. You are saying that by manipulating strong force you manipulate force carrying particles - gluons for holding quarks and pions for proton-neutrons I think? So how can you manipulate strong forces? reduce the range of strong force interactions - nucleus breaks apart and release the energy that was holding it reduce the strength of strong force - nucleus can't be held together and breaks apart releasing the energy play with gluons/pions - with this you can just do whatever you want Trying to explain gravitation lashing with particle physics - lashing is using graviton particles that bind Windrunner to Roshar and "change" their source of interactions. Half strength lashing, creating weightlessness, would take half of gravitons and "bind" them in the opposite direction. 1g lashing upwards would take all gravitons and bind them in interactions between Windrunner and "up". 2g would use investiture to create gravitons (or increase the energy carried by them?) to strengthen interactions etc. I think that is a better explanation than creating a fake mass. But using General Relativity, lashings would sort of manipulate local gravity well (spacetime curvature) for a Windrunner, but here are the problems - why only Windrunner is affected by this, and immense amounts of energy it would take to do so with the gravity well of the whole planet. I'm not sure how to explain lashings with General Relativity. So if gravitons can be manipulated this way, and can be made with investiture, then gluons/pions can also be manipulated that way. You can create those particles and create a strong force between something that doesn't have it. If you can create them, you can also destroy those particles, freeing the energy that they are holding and "breaking" the strong force between particles. Even without destroying them, you can change the subatomic particles they interact with to those outside of their range. Because gluons/pions can’t "go" that far, it would “break the bond” and release the energy. And to clarify, we can create fission just by using weak forces, but we need to create necessary elements first in proper combination. Turning every subatomic particle into just neutrons or protons would result in spectacular things. If we have very heavy elements, we can prepare it for a real fission. You made a great case for it. Oh, so that was the original topic. Whoopsy Congrats on becoming a Sliver!

Magic. It all boils down to energy within a system. It's not just neutron capture, it's the energy that neutrons carry that cause fission. Making fissile material under a critical mass won't generate fission on its own. U236 won't split on its own, and the other fissile elements as well. U236 for example is fissile not by thermal neutrons but by fast ones. It's the opposite to U235, and U238 can undergo fission with fast neutrons. Without natural criticality, you need neutrons with the right amount of energy to sustain a chain reaction. Oh yeah, that sounds great. The only better thing would be H236, why not. Or just make every particle into neutrons Mini neutron star just for a moment. Simplification. It's energy. If you can manipulate strong forces soemhow, you just release that energy. That's fission. Edit: With this you can create the perfect fission, as you can release energy of every strong force within the atom, and that is not just the energy binding protons with neutrons together but energy binding quarks that make up proton/neutron. 100% efficient. Probably not, but still fun. Maybe a zinc compounder with a literal mountain of zinc? Well, they don't fully annihilate together during a supernova. So I hope one day I see a weaponized supernova in Cosmere. I love this disscusion with you. I'm learning new things. Thanks

I remember it was told in books that Windspren can do it sometimes. Well, Stormfather does connection on multiple occasions, he connects to people sending them visions even before bond with Dalinar. And whatever he is doing during Listeners transformation. Not a tension but they are weird. Keep in mind that what Syl was able to do just made a small surface a little sticky, that's not a lot. But that's a good idea. Bond with Radiant might make spren stronger in the surge usage. But I'm more interested if Syl or Windspren can also use gravitation. Because why does spren that grants both surges can use only one of them?

Yes, it's gonna happen. It should happen on a large scale of huge gems filled with investiture, making anti bombs that can annihilate entire cities, but that kind of weapon appearing too often would "break" the story. So probably something smaller, like granates or small bombs to use on a battlefield, not to destroy the whole country - at least at the beginning, during the space era they can get bigger for story purposes.

It does involve strong nuclear forces, not only because it's where the energy comes from but the neutron emmision and capture is done by strong nuclear forces as well. Breaking strong nuclear forces, therefore releasing the energy from it would be the way to achieve fission. Yes, but to kickstart fission you need neutron emission, which is controlled mainly by strong nuclear forces, not weak. While you can create an element that is a neutron emitter by the use of weak forces, that's taking extra steps, as with strong forces you can just push neutrons out, that will be captured and cause fission. Yes, It doesn't matter when you have investment. But with this I was referencing that investiture is energy in Cosmere, so purely theoretical, you are using energy to achieve fission below iron elements. But again, it doesn't really matter. Ok, you can go for a critical mass, you're right. Weak forces produce beta decay, which releases electrons and neutrinos. However you need neutrons to start fission, and that's where strong force is important. Again, you can take more steps to achieve this, like creating a neutron emitter. Alpha and gamma decay are because of electromagnetism and strong force. Just break it and release energy. And that's just straight forward as you don't have to find a proper unstable isotope that would undergo fission on its own. In most cases the unstable isotope would decay by alpha/beta to stable configuration without fission. Yeah, that could work this way, and it would work very well. But I waaaant tooooo Buuuuuut I see a way to weaponize weak forces far better than fission. Use beta decay. Break a neutron into a proton and an electron, but instead of letting the electron go, bind it back with a proton making neutron. The only thing that goes away is neutrino, and antineutrino, which carries a very very small amount of energy. And do it again, as fast as physically possible, billions of times per second to billions of neutrons. At this moment you're making a huge amount of neutrinos. Which is necessary as neutrinos barely interact with anything so you need a lot of them. And with this you've got yourself your own, private Supernova - 99% of Supernova's energy is carried out by neutrinos during 10 seconds of core collapse. If you tweak weak interactions of neutrinos so they would interact more with matter (their chance to react with something is 1 in 10^24), you can make it just insanely deadly.

They have a regular heart. Their gemheart is located in a sternum, fused with it, it doesn't replace a heart.

Not true, he wanted to go after her next. Double crossing them means that Odium worked with her before. Interesting but Shard's intent is to focus outwards not inwards. It's not about her Autonomy, it's about Autonomy of people. While she tells them what this Autonomy should look like, she still respects that Scadrial chooses its own Autonomy, and she is a fan of Kelsier despite the fact that Kel is fighting against her. Moreover Shards can change slightly interpretation of its own intent, so this might help her, like SA slight spoiler: WoB:

Yes, that's what I said, it's about quarks and how they interact, beta decay, particle change etc. While you could try to achieve some form of fission this way, it's far from practical, with few additional steps, and energy released would be worse than in case of regular fission. At worst you'll just get an extremely radioactive material, that just decays into stable form, at best true fission without chain reaction which is weak. But that depends on the atoms you're working on, elements lighter then iron produce less energy in fission than they need to start it, so while you can mess up the nucleus and make it unstable, it would require lots of investiture (on massive scale) and give far less energy (no problem if you have that investiture). But if you have a pile of U238, how would you make fission out of it just by using weak forces? Changing the amount of protons in the atoms won't do much until you try to make an element that doesn't exist (above 118 protons). Most elements this heavy have a lot of isotopes that, while unstable, don't fission just because they are unstable. You could try to find isotope 238 of an element that is too unstable to exist, but that would probably be some lighter element from the periodic table, so changing lots of protons into neutrons. You can make some isotope with a very short half-life and wait for it to decay to lighter elements and try to do something with it, but you can't just slam a fast neutron into U238 and make it fission. I don't know, I know far too little to determine how to make element fissail just by manipulating weak forces. Using strong nuclear forces for it is just straight up fission - you are sure that every time you break a bond you release energy, and while it still can require lots of investiture (on massive scale), in a single atom you can break all strong bonds and release energy from it. You just make it without tweaking the atom into an unstable position that would cause it to split. Quicker and more practical, but in many cases you would still need to break new atoms yourself, as no chain reaction would happen. Fun idea but because Brandon describes Cohesion the way he does, it needs to manipulate electromagnetism to restructure atoms of a material, not weak forces. But tbf most surges need to work on most fundamental forces to achieve what they do, like Transformation, so it isn't a problem for me to say that Cohesion also works on 3 forces except gravity. It's magic afterall.

I know you are, I'm saying that Shards as a power (investiture) and Vessels can't be separated. Shard without a vessel can't do anything. Shard must have a vessel to act. And because no vessel has an infinite mind, no vessel can access infinite power (investiture) of the Shard, but that power doesn't have any ability on its own, it can't act without a Vessel. That's the definition of the word "power - the ability to do something". So if Shard's investiture can't act without a Vessel, then it's powerless. Again, I know, I'm saying that they can't be Omnipotent. While Shard's power (investiture) is infinite, it isn't all powerful, as on its own it can't do anything. Power is the ability to do something. Investiture of a Shard doesn't act without a Vessel. Investiture of a Shard isn't Omnipotent, as it needs a mind. It is infinite however.

Ok, so Cohesion was bound by Honor to manipulate only electromagnetic forces and cohesion, but it's a cousin of Microkinesis, which manipulates strong nuclear force and possibly weak as well. So the question is, are the Honor's restrictions preventing it from manipulating strong forces, or because it's just a cousin, similar but not the same to Microkinesis, so it isn't as powerful as Microkinesis and can't manipulate those strong forces (Brandon saying he "back off" from it kind of suggest that)? Ars Arcanum gives a bit of wiggle room to call them different enough to not cause fission. But if the Honor's restrictions prevented them from making fission, then now when they are gone, they could do it.

My problem with Jasnah+Hoid ship

He can hold a Shard, like in SH, but he still doesn't have a permanent connection to PR, that's not his real body. To Ascend he would most likely need to get rid of the spike, like Vin had to to touch the power of Preservation in the Well, and from Mists, and that would disconnect him from PR. He is still just a CS without a body, so he wouldn't be as powerful as others at being a Vessel for a Shard.

What was the wall made of? Wood? Easy then. Some bricks/stone - could still be done. If reinforcement concrete then it's a problem.

No. They are binded to the planetary system, not just the planet. You were talking about the time that it takes to kill a Shard, and Honor was dying for a long time. It's a great example. We don't know how was he killed. He didn't have to break any Oath to be killed, Odium at that point killed 3 Shards so he knew how to do this and could use his powers in a way that Honor couldn't. Odium might target Roshar because it was settled by two Shards, but Honor didn't consider it a violation of the given word, probably because Cultivation agreed to it with him. Keep in mind that at that point Leras is just a shadow of what was left of his mind. Sometimes he can't even remember if there was any plan made by him, and he forgot what was the plan. He didn't know that Vin had to release Ruin in order for his plan to succeed. Leras didn't know what was his intention when he imprisoned Ruin, he most likely just thinks that way because of what is happening with Ruin. He's not reliable anymore when he can't fully recall the event we're talking about. I can't put in words what I have in mind. His influence over Roshar is limited, he can't act freely. There are forces opposing him. And while he can empower people, but those are only the one that agree to it, that he has a strong connection to. He couldn't send visions to Kaladin because he didn't have a connection to him, he had to use Moash connection to it. That kind of direct influence I'm talking about. He needs a strong connection to be able to act. Moash is most likely under the influence of an Unmade. But even if it's just Odium, Odium doesn't have full grip on him, as a simple Radiant like Renarin can push Odium away. That's very limiting for Odium.

Brandon said it's the weak atomic forces - the forces that quarks interact with each other, changing protons into neutrons and those sorts of stuff. It's strong nuclear forces that bind atoms together and those are the forces that break apart and create nuclear explosions. But the description of Cohesion's effect doesn't fit the forces it manipulates. It would be more of plasticity manipulations than weak nuclear forces. Cohesion is about the attraction between the same molecules. So what Brandon describes isn't manipulation of nuclear forces, but how atoms (molecules) are bonded with other atoms and that's electromagnetism. Everything can be done with just one lashing. It's not the size, it's the mass that matters, so the heaviest thing that was lashed was a stone thrown by a thundercluster during the Kholinar siege, and that was big. But they would still need time and a lot of Stormlight, so it's unlikely.

Huh? Source? Didn't Brandon said that Radiant's can't do it on that scale? Not really, dozens of meters in radius is enough to cause serious destruction even if it explodes in the atmosphere. The Chelyabinsk meteor had 20 meters of diameter, 12000 kg and exploded with a yield of 500 kt. And they still found a 650 kg remaining piece of it on the ground and a few smaller ones. Kaladin in OB during the Kholinar siege deflected a rock several meters in diameter, he did it with multiple lashings, and still had a lot of Stormlight left. Windrunner can just do it with one lashing so it is possible, but what would be the radius he could bring down is unknown. On the topic, I think that Elsecaller would have the best chances, as he would just go to CR and start to soulcast everything he can, even Radiant if he had enough light (hard but possible). So air to stone, ground to water, to trap Radiants and soulcast water to stone etc. Elsecaller in CR would be almost untouchable (unless Shardblade manifests itself in CR as well and is able to cut someone who is there by sheer luck). Skybreaker and Dustbringer would also do great with division, mostly nullifying any soulcasting Elsecaller can do. But they can't really touch someone in CR. Lightweaver while he can soulcast, he can't fully go into CR like Elsecaller. Illusions would be handy however. Edgedancer can be very fast but with other powers he would have to deal with he fell a bit short. And while WIndrunner is great, I think Skybreaker would be better with Division. Truthwather do illusions, visions and healing, so far away from fighting powers. Stonewards could probably do good, but there isn't much information about them, Willshapers maybe as well, they can travel to CR and easily change positions during fights.