alder24

That's a possible scenario. But I don't think Taln was that young when the exodus from Ashyn happened. Brandon when asked about it wasn't sure only about Ash, if Taln was that young, it's likely he wouldn't be sure about his birth as well. To add more, we have this from RoW ch 17: From this part we know that Jasnah was interrogating Ash every week. One time Ash told her about Oathpact, she told her that Ishar made it and it, the Oathpact, made them immortal. Because of the way this conversation is going, I think Ash literally told Jasnah that the Oathpact made them immortal, which Jasnah repeated in presence of Dalinar and Navani, asking Ash to tell them more about it. For me it's a strong point against your theory, that there were 2 events, first when proto-Heralds were made immortal, second when they were made into proper Heralds. Also Honorblades have to be part of the Oathpact, otherwise Heralds wouldn't have to leave them behind after Aharietiam, or Honorblades connection to the Oathpact wouldn't be so strongly suggested in WoK prelude: There are many possible explanations. One might be that Dawnsingers lived a very peaceful life, in balance with Roshar, devoid of large scale conflicts and wars. The closest they had to fighters were hunters, but other than that they were fully unfamiliar with war and fighting. It just didn't happen among them. This would leave them fully unprepare and exposed to human invasion. They knew no strategy, no tactic, nor how to fight and coordinate attacks. They weren't able to organize any kind of defense against humans who came with blood lust and in tight formations supported by combined arms doctrine. The other is that Singers were accustomed to war, so much that they weren't united, but divided into multiple tribes and nations. They were constantly at war with each other, similar to humanity, and this is the reason for their demise. As when humans attracted tribes closest to Shinovar, their neighbors looked at this as an opportunity and attacked as well, or at least waited and didn't provide any help. Humans picked up Singer tribes and nations one by one with superior numbers. This continued until the rest realized that humans don't plan to stop and attacked deeper into Roshar, further away from Shinovar, thus leading to Singers unification. Likewise some Dawnsiger tribes might even allied themself with Ashynites in hope of defeating their enemy tribes. Humans became another faction in Singers conflicts, but later backstab their Singer allies after successfully defeating their common enemy. This might even explain why humans were called "The traitors, with tongues of sweetness, but with minds that lust for blood." in the Eila Stele (not like humans just leaving Shinovar and starting a war wouldn't be enough reason for that). Or as I said previously, humans attacked with superior numbers and the element of surprise, overrunning the region close to Shinovar, before the Singers across the whole Roshar could organize an effective defense. That's a good point. Very likely. But there is a possibility that Honor was so focused on keeping Odium bound to Roshar that he immediately supported the group that was in opposition to Odium, and thus choosing Humans after Singers turned to Odium. Also at that point Honor wasn't that focus on upkeeping oaths like he was during Recreance.

Hey, welcome to the Shard. That's not something accessible only to Radiants or Honorblades. Lightweaving is a general Cosmere term for the magic of illusions and creating them. That's what Hoid was doing through SA when telling stories before gaining his spren bond - he was using a Yolen version of Lightweaving. Sel and Elantians have their own version of Lightweaving - you've seen it already, Raoden used it to create an illusion on himself - that's Lightweaving, just used by different magic systems. Keep in mind, in Cosmere they call every illusion magic as Lightweaving. The same way they can call any teleportation as Elsecalling, even if it has nothing to do with the order of Elsecallers. Every connection manipulation can be called Bondsmithing, even though it isn't done but order of Bondsmiths on Roshar. That's just the way they call it. Different magic systems can replicate other magics, Elantrians are the most versatile in that regard. WoBs:

Ok, I think I get it now. I hope this response will look coherent, as I was adding things left and right after writing the whole post. EDIT: Important note - I get it now for real, before writing any reply check out the edit at the end of the post. I explained everything there. You're right, different frame of reference messes up with conservation of momentum. But there is a very simple solution to that. What is the example where the Feruchemist (from his frame of reference) would consider himself to be moving and have speed, while some outside observer would see him at rest with no speed? I can't think of any example in real life that would work like that. The opposite, yes, a Feruchemist at rest in a moving train would not change his momentum at all (as it's 0), and a person outside the train would see him moving with some speed and no change to the momentum too. But the opposite, I can't think of anything like that, where from a Feruchemist's frame of reference he has a speed, but from an outside observer he has no speed. How? I think that's simply not possible to have that frame of references. Just give me an real life example, maybe I'm missing something. Technically an observer and a Feruchemist moving at the same speed together would consider their speed as 0 m/s relative to each other (from physics point of view), and they would think that the world around them is moving at a speed of 10 m/s. That's what you're talking about? But who thinks of himself as not moving when moving? We all know that we're moving and we have speed relative to the ground, and that's what is important. That's how we look at our speed, relative to the ground. Intent and perception in Cosmere matters a lot. Maybe if a Feruchemist considered himself as not moving (despite falling from the air) but he would view the world around him to be moving, then storing/tapping his mass wouldn't have any effect on his momentum or something weird would happen. No idea, because nobody who is falling would consider themself as not moving, we all know what is happening, our body instinctively too. Try to convince your body that it's not falling, good luck. Here, something weird, which I thought of later while writing it. A Crusher, hovering above the train car's floor, would not change his speed nor momentum by changing his mass, as he considers himself stationary, with no speed and no momentum. Maybe if he would look at himself as having the train's speed and momentum (if that's even possible and if that would change how F-iron works), changing his mass might change his speed, as from his new perspective he has both speed and momentum now. From his new perspective momentum is conserved, but from all of passanger's perspective he suddenly gained speed and momentum out of nowhere. Yes. But they can explain that by making up some phantom momentum or force from investiture acting suddenly on that Crusher giving him that speed. But I don't think that's even possible at all for a Crusher to change his frame of reference like that to that of outside the train, nor that his perception would matter with F-Iron. It would work like the WoB below states "relative to the mass/size of the object you're standing on" so no matter how hard the hovering Crusher is thinking of himself from the outside perspective, because he's on the massive train, he won't be able to change his momentum without actually moving inside the train in the first place. If you could make a person somehow stand on a coin, and launch himself and that coin into the air, and he would consider himself as standing on the coin (like standing on the train), than it wouldn't matter if he starts changing his mass, as the mass of the coin is too small to "anchor" him to that coin, so him changing his mass in that situation would change his momentum accordingly ignoring the coin fully, and acting as he isn't standing on that coin. Maybe I'm wrong. with all of those examples. Besides that one, involving a lot of mental gymnastics, I can't think of any example fitting your description. But you thinking of yourself as having a speed of the train, doesn't change the fact that relative to that train you have no speed. It's not just about the frame of reference, but also perception. When you're falling there is now way for you to not know that you're falling, your senses would be screaming to you that you're falling, despite that from the physical frame of reference, you're kind of stationary and its the whole world that is moving towards you. But that's not something that your brain thinks. That's not something that you think. That's not something that you perceive. It's impossible for you to look at this differently, from the physics frame of reference, where you aren't falling, but the ground is moving towards you. Something similar is happening with time bubbles, as they don't move, they're stationary. Marasi creating a bubble while being on the carriage creates a mess of an effect as the bubble stays on the ground, while the carriage moves out of it. But a time bubble on the train will be anchored to the train and move with it. Another fact to consider is that in Cosmere there is a third component to Matter-Energy, it's Investiture. Investiture=Matter=Energy. And that's how Brandon solves his physics problems. F-iron breaks laws of thermodynamics and potential energy? Not in his world, as Investiture compensates for all of that, and everything works fine. Speed bubbles should cause redshift/blueshift and fry people with microwaves? Not in his world, as Investiture compensates for that and absorbs excess energy. If you find the example that you're describing (A Feruchemist having speed from his frame of reference, a person B from a different frame of reference not seeing Feruchemist with any speed), then you can guarantee that Investiture is the explanation and momentum is still conserved. That creates a problem because that's not how it works. A Feruchemist storing his mass changes it into investiture which is stored in his metalminds as investiture. That investiture is 100% retrievable. If that mass was simply shifted and added to the planet or other things, he wouldn't be able to get that back, as it was used up by something else - a planet for example. There is no way for that Investiture to wait for Feruchemist in his metalmind at the same time as it's added as mass to the planet's mass. Because as soon as a Feruchemist stores his mass, it stops being mass and is turned into Investiture. So there is no way for it to exist at two places at once - in his metalminds, and added to the "bigger system". Tbf I am just confused by my own response here in a few places. But the main part I started to write is for you to find me a real life example of two frames of reference, when a Feruchemist A has a speed from A's frame of reference, but person B looking at person A would say A has no speed form B's frame of reference. Find me something like that, that doesn't involve mental gymnastics of perception (as with hovering Crusher in the train) and stuff like that. I really can't think of a real life example that you proposed. The opposite is true for all I can think of. From A's frame of reference he isn't moving, but B sees him as moving (A is in the train, B is outside the train). In that case perception matters as A clearly knows he views his speed relative to the train and can't view his speed relative to the ground or person B outside of the train. So he can't view his momentum as that of the train (like I was arguing in the hovering Crusher example, 3rd paragraph, I was really grasping at straws at that point to come up with something matching your description). In real life if there is an observer B, who views person A as not moving from B's frame of reference, then that means that there are ONLY two possible scenarios. Either they both are not moving relative to the ground, or they both moving at the same speed and direction relative to the ground. There is no way (that I can think of) for person A to have speed from A's frame of reference, and for person B to see A with no speed from B's frame of reference. Edit: @Thorneater I cannot stop thinking about it. I cannot let it go. Let's consider a Crusher inside the train. That crusher has 80 kg, and is steel pushing himself in the same direction the train is moving. Crusher's speed of steel push is 1 m/s, the train is moving at 28 m/s. The momentum of Crusher in his reference frame is 80 kg * 1 m/s = 80 kgm/s, Crusher's momentum form outside reference frame is 80 kg * (1+28) m/s = 2320 kgm/s. Because he's moving with the train, right? Now the Crusher drops his mass by half. From his reference frame he still has the same momentum, so his speed doubles up to 2 m/s. From the outside's reference frame there is a problem that you noted. If the momentum is conserved, then his speed would be 2320 kgm/s = (80 kg / 2) * (x+28) m/s ; x = 2320 kgm/s / (80 kg / 2) - 28 m/s ; x = 88 m/s - that's the total speed the Crusher should have after his mass change that an outside observer expects. But that not the case, an outside observer would see the Crusher moving at 28 + 2 = 30 m/s, so to calculate Crusher's new momentum as viewed from the outsider's perspective, while taking Crusher's real speed of 2 m/s + 28 m/s into the account P = (80 kg / 2) * (2 m/s + 28 m/s) = 1200 kgm/s - so you were right in the first place, the Crusher lost almost half of his momentum from the outside frame of reference. That's not good. That's not a momentum conserved. But there is a problem. Did you see it? The Crusher didn't touch his train momentum and speed at all. Those are separate to his movement and not in his frame of reference. For him it's like they don't even exist. A momentum is a sum of components, a sum of all different momenta. He has his own momentum based on his steel push (80 kgm/s), and his momentum based on the train speed of 28 m/s (2320 - 80 = 2240 kgm/s). Those are separate to him because of his reference frame. So for an outside observer, the frame of reference in which our Crusher stores his mass takes priority, and separates itself from the outside observer's frame of reference. An outside observer would conclude that the Crusher changes only the mass of his steel push related momentum, not the mass of his train movement momentum. And thus the sum of components conserves the momentum. So his starting momentum would be calculated by this equation P = 80 kg * 28 m/s + 80 kg * 1 m/s = 2320 kgm/s - a sum of all individual momenta, and after he changes his mass, only the mass of his reference frame is changed, so the mass related to the train momentum isn't changing, as he doesn't consider himself to be moving as the train is. So the way to calculate his new speed is by this: 2320 kgm/s = 80 kg * 28 m/s +(80 kg /2) * x m/s ; 2320 kgm/s - 80 kg * 28 m/s = (80 kg /2) * x m/s ; (2320 kgm/s - 80 kg * 28 m/s) / (80 kg /2) = x m/s ; 2 m/s = x. The same value as calculated based only on Crusher's own reference frame. Everything works fine. The problem is fixed. Right? Well, that's my explanation of this. You did identify the problem correctly - in different reference frames, the conservation of momentum enforces enormous gains/losses of speed, which aren't observable, thus momentum can't be conserved. But we know momentum must be conserved, so a change in mass should launch people into space. That doesn't happen either. So we have a problem. A paradox? Right? Not really. My explanation to this is what I have written above in the edited section - Crusher's frame of reference, his perspective, takes priority. His frame of reference is the one in which his change of mass is happening. That's the only momentum affected by his change. So an outsider observing the train passing by would say the Crusher has two separate and the Crusher only changed his mass in one of them, the inside one, related to his steel push, not to the train movement. Basically our Crusher isolated both movements and changed his mass only in one of them, without touching the other. Weird? Not really, he isn't aware of his other movement, from his reference frame he is moving with the speed of 1 m/s in the train, while the world outside is moving with a whooping speed of 28 m/s, like a treadmill. But from his point of view, he doesn't have that train related momentum at all, therefore there is no change to the mass of that momentum. Nothing changes there. Different frame of reference and the Crusher's perspective is all that matters when he changes mass. All that an outside observer needs to do is to separate the total momentum of the Crusher into the sum of momenta, and isolate one the one in which the Crusher changed his mass. The Crusher changes his mass only in a specific frame of reference, only related to the speed he has in that frame of reference, without touching speeds and mass that he has in a broader frame of reference - those observing in a broader frame of reference must separate Crusher's momentum in to sum of momenta in different frame of reference and isolate only the one in which Crusher is changing his mass. That's my solution to the problem which you saw first. And it's supported by WoBs too, like the one copied above: "for time bubbles the frame of reference and the perspective matters a lot". Now my explanation begs a question - can that Crusher change his frame of reference, his perspective, to that of the outside observer's? Can he stand on the roof of the train, thinking really hard that the outsider's frame of reference is his now, and he is moving with 28 m/s, then store his mass down to 1 kg launching himself forward with an unrealistic speed of 2240 m/s (Mach 6.5) ahead of the train? Can he do that? The WoB posted above said that a time bubble's anchor can be changed based on Slider's perspective, a Slider can learn to anchor it to himself, so maybe a Crusher, or any F-iron Feruchemist, can learn to change his perspective and a frame of reference to store mass in that frame of reference? I don't think this is the case, because that would go into ridiculous extremes in which Feruchemist could store his mass in the frame of reference related to Scadrial's orbit around their sun and launch himself into space with impossible speeds. Brandon's magic is all about limitations, and having a person who can launch himself into space with whatever speeds he wants just by changing his perspective would be too ground breaking. But on the other hand we have Windrunners, who do exactly that, and Sliders and Pulsers who can anchor their speed bubbles to them based on perspective, so why not Skimmers too? Maybe it would be as said in the WoB about time bubbles - depending on the size/mass of the object they're on, they can't change their mass in frame of reference outside of that object (like I was kind of arguing in the section before the edit), and thus their lock to that frame of reference. It's an interesting idea that may be worth asking. Or at least we should ask Peter how Crusher's momenta and speeds behaves in different reference frames - maybe Brandon and Peter aren't even aware of that and you're the first one who noticed that problem. I hope this explains everything. I hope it's clear and easy to understand. And I hope I haven't made any glaring mistakes.

No, I'm refusing to argue if it's possible to affect your skin with Tension and Cohesion in the same way you can affect rock with it. I'm offering a compromise that everyone can agree will work, and will be as effective as a Shardplate. I'm also avoiding arguing if making your clothes rigid and hard wouldn't make them brittle in the process. Oh, and doing some research I can now debunk that idea of turning your skin into an unbreakable surface with Stonewards powers. It's impossible to affect a living flesh and even a slightly invested object - which means they can manipulate god metals, gems infused with Stormlight, Awakened objects, or even their own body. Rock armor it is.

Welcome to the Shard. F-iron is the hardest to understand because it breaks so many crucial laws of Physics. F-iron stores mass, but NEVER all of mass. You can store most of your mass but not all of it. No Feruchemical metal, except for copper and aluminum, allows you to store all of it. Therefore mass will be always conserved, as m1v1=m2v2, it never goes to 0. And Feruchemist stores only his own body's mass, nothing else, his clothes, metalminds, everything he has on him still has the same mass. Feruchemist can’t change the mass of another object. What is the relation between the system A and B? Are they tied together? Then the system A would drag the system B behind him, losing velocity in process by giving it to the system B until they both reach the same speed - you can consider those tied systems as just 1 system. Before the change it has 8 kg (2 objects both 4 kg in mass) and 2 m/s (speed doesn't add up), after you change only one one object's mass of 4 kg into 2 kg, the overall mass in combined system is now 6 kg, and it has v2=m1v1/m2 = 2.66 m/s. Momentum is conserved. If there is no relation between the system A and B, then the System A would go twice as fast, and system B won't change his velocity, nor momentum, because no change was made in it. Wait, where did you get that 0 kg in system B? What is that? Where did that come from? I don't understand it. Explain this please. There is no way for system B to have a mass of 0 kg with or without F-iron. Magic compensates for the rotation of the Earth. And you're looking at it from the observer located in space, a person on the planet, from his point of view has no momentum at all, and all Feruchemy is happening in his frame of reference, not some outside one. Therefore only his momentum is changed, not the momentum added by rotation, as from his point of view he isn't moving. That's the most logical explanation I can think of. Just like when you calculate the momentum of two balls, you don't add the momentum of Earth's rotation, or Earth's orbit, or Sun's orbit or Galaxy etc etc. It doesn't matter from the frame of reference you're looking at. Only the momentum of balls relative to the ground matters. That's the case for F-iron too. No, I don't know what you mean here (especially considering earlier 0 kg in the first example). But a Feruchemist can store ONLY his body's mass. Everything that he wears still has mass. His clothes, metalminds, backpack etc. But he can get with his mass so close to 0 (but never reaching 0), that you could only look at the mass of his clothes and stuff he wears for some calculations (like calculating terminal velocity). So if a Feruchemist stores mass, and he holds another person, only his mass gets stored, and if they're moving together, tied by a rope, then you can consider them as a single system, add their mass together and do math on that mass. 140 kg (2x70 kg) * 10 m/s = 71 kg (70 kg + 1 kg of Feruchemist after storing mass) * x m/s; x = 19.7 m/s - that would be their speed after a Feruchemist stores his mass. Only his mass, the other person's mass is unchanged, but because they're tied together, you consider them as one system, and the other person is "dragged" by Feruchemist speed, adding him more momentum after Feruchemist's mass is changed, which cases Feruchemist to lose the momentum/speed he would have if he was alone.. Is that what you meant? I'm not fully understanding you here. Again, from the Crasher's frame of reference he doesn't have any speed or momentum given to him by planet's rotation or planet's orbit. He went from being stationary on the ground, to jumping into the air with 10 m/s speed and then changing his momentum, which includes ONLY that momentum of his jump, no planet's rotation - he has none of it from his frame of reference. All of those problems you mentioned simply disappear when you take a proper frame of reference into the account. Some WoBs:

I agree, we know close to nothing about Stonewards powers. The only Stoneward who used his powers was in Dalinar's vision, and made stairs out of stone. That's it. Not much to work with. I would say it depends where the fight takes place. If it's in the open field, then yes, a Stoneward can sink Mistborn anchors into the ground, half a meter or so should be enough (Wax see only very faint steel lines through brick/concrete walls). But if the fight is happening in a city, then a Stoneward can't just walk around a city and just level it to the ground to get rid of all anchors (khem khem @Frustration). But with a Shardplate it would be very hard for Mistborn to kill him, like in all other "vs" threads. On 3rd Ideal it would be a fight of attrition, who first runs out of Investiture. Mistborn would need to stay in the air and keep distance, he can't stand on the ground to attack in melee or leech a Stoneward, as he would liquify the ground and trap Mistborn. Mistborn can only shoot coins or try to do a fast fly-bys slashing him with daggers or leeching him for 1 second (which would leech a lot of Stormlight). But those fly-bys can end with a one swing of a Shardblade, they're very risky. Moreover a 3rd Ideal Stoneward (or 2nd) can make himself a stone armor, like Toph did with stone bending, why not. It would be equally as hard to penetrate as a Shardplate. And this is within the realms of possibility, without arguing if he can make his skin or clothes as hard and sturdy as a Shardplate, using rocks would be more in range for them, and be easy.

Shai had to draw an Aon based on the Basin geography, which would likely act like the city of Elantris on Sel. Riina had a Lumar map in her tower, it might serve the same purpose, however it wasn't glowing like Shai's Aon. And Charlie's curse wasn't getting "weaker" the further away he was from Riina's tower. It might suggest that by the time Tress takes place, something changed in how the Dor works. Keep in mind we're talking about Era 4 war, and invasions at that time would happen primarily through PR, not CR. Sel being full of plasma in CR wouldn't matter for most invasion forces. Soulcasters would have a hard time soulcasting from CR, and that's it.

Allomancy. Vin using Mists made her insanely stronger than drawing from Preservation. Even when Vin and Ruin directly supplied investiture to Marsh and Elend at the end of HoA, it didn't make them any stronger, because connection is the limitation, it's like a pipe, the wider it is the more it can carry, but there are limits to that (TLR strength partially, he got as strong as Allomancy can get just be being fueled by Preservation, but he also was using Feruchemy to make himself stronger). External sources of investiture are just far more efficient and potent, because connection to a Shard cease to be the limiting factor. Because you're using Hemalurgy, your connection to Ruin would be comparable to what you have when using stolen Allomancy, which is weak (if Ruin supplies that directly instead of Preservation, if that's not the case and the WoB was mistaken, all of that reasoning is invalid because you can't fuel Surgebinding with Ruin). Ruin would be able to provide little investiture in that case, far less than what Stormlight holds. But @therunner made a good point - Surgebinding doesn't have any mechanism which allows to draw directly from the Shard, and thus this shouldn't happen even when spikes are involved. SA Yeah, kind of. Maybe. That's more or less the "tone" difference that I was talking about. You can't. Those are 2 different magic systems, one relying on how close something is to life, other relying just on metals. They're not connected. It doesn't matter for Hemalurgy that the metal used for spikes was never alive. Cosmere: Yes, I know. I was just nitpicking and focusing on the very last atoms to decay. So technically you would end up with nothing, but as you said, it would take a mind-boggling amount of time. So large that it's practically infinite. Cosmere: I'd love to get your opinion on it. Same to you, @alder24 I don't think so. Breaths are there with a specific command and are doing a specific action there (even the once just commanded with "my life to yours". If you use Feruchemy and store them in Nicrosilmind, then you might be able to compound them in a normal way (Brandon hasn't decided if nicrosil stores normal Breaths too). What you suggest is just too similar to nicrosil compounding, and it would be too easy to access that if any ordinary Allomancer would be able to Awaken a piece of metal and burn it to get more/stronger Breaths.

It isn't common. It happens but if you see someone with mixed gray and black hair it's far more likely that he is much older, at least in his 50s than 30s. That's why statistically Jez looks older. I get it, it's possible but there are problems. What I'm suggesting is that it could happen without any form of immortality. If the Oathpact was made around 30 years past Arrival, which fits with most generous estimations of Raboniel's birth, then they could easily all be born on Ashyn, age normally, as look the way they look as Heralds. Most of them would be around 20 years old on Ashyn when the catastrophe had happened, even Ash could be born there, and leave as a few years old kid. Ishar would be the oldest among them during the Arrival, around 50 years old, because as the Herald he has fully gray hairs, so he must be older. That's what I'm saying, it can all happen within a single generation. If the date of Raboniel's birth isn't that generous, then this explanation stops working, and yours is more probable, that they find a way to at least slow down aging before becoming Heralds. Which doesn't have to be about becoming CS - there are many ways in Cosmere to achieve that, most unknown to us, some so common that most Worldhoppers are using them. It's not a stretch that Heralds use those methods. Taln is a problem. If it was like you said, that they were CS before making an Oathpact, then Taln age is a huge problem. He is also young, around 30-50 years old by appearance, and was born on Ashyn like others. If by saying "he wasn't supposed to be a Herald" you mean he wasn't a CS like others initially, then it can't work like you're saying. Because he would be dead by the time others made an Oathpact. Taln must have access to the same form of immortality as others did, or the Oathpact was made "shortly" after the Arrival. And if he was already immortal after arriving on Roshar, then your reasoning has a hole in it, as you can't combine him not being thought of as a Herald at the beginning with him being a part of the "immortal crew". As they would only turn towards him when they would start talking about the Oathpact - long decades, or hundred of years after the Arrival (at least by your timeline, you are arguing that generations had passed before the Oathpact was made, right?). So either he was immortal when leaving Ashyn like others, or the Oathpact was made within a single generation and he wasn't immortal before that. If it's the former, then it doesn't make sense that he would be included in the "immortal crew" long long time before the idea of Oathpact was even made, and thus the word "he wasn't supposed to be a Herald" doesn't make sense in that context. To fix that you would need to have tens or hundreds of CS/immortal people leaving Ashyn in the first place, then "the team" chose 10 people to be Heralds, one of them died, and Taln was suggested as a replacement. But if so many immortal people left Ashyn in the first place, then where are they now? That explanation doesn't make sense as it creates more issues than resolves them. My idea fits it better, as there is simply no need for any immortality in the first place. I don't know if I explained it clearly enough. I don't like the way I worded it but I can't think of a different way to explain the "Taln paradox". The first Europeans to arrive in Mexico were in 1511/1517, a few years later the Aztec Empire fell. It literally took 30 years from Columbus' discovery of America, because he was searching for new trade routes to India, to the Aztec Empire fall. The first people that arrived there didn't plan to conquer those lands, but they saw the riches, the gold of those people, and they wanted them for themself. It's so hard to believe that Ashynites, who arrived with almost nothing, would look at Singers and their homes, their tools, their food and livestock, their gemstones and metals with jealousy and greed, angry at them that they don't share all of that with them, when they need that more than Singers, and then decided to take all those things for themself? For me that's the most obvious thing that would happened, history of humanity 101. Also the Aztec Empire had a population of like 5-10 million people, the city of Tenochtitlan was one of the biggest in the world, and while it suffered tremendously from diseases, many of those people allied with small Cortes forces (of around 3000 man) and fought together with him. It certainly wasn't tiny by Rosharan population standards - because I don't believe that humans conquered all of Roshar within a single war, a single generation or a single Desolation. That's not possible. Do you agree that Roshar couldn't be conquered all within a single Desolation? My point with the Aztec Empire was to show how quickly it can go from first contact to war and conquest.

Yes, what I imagine is more or less what Crow has on the image. An early modern pistol. If there is a working design for a pistol, it can be scaled up into a musket, which doesn't have that much bigger of a caliber. But I want this to remain in the early modern period. Yyyy, yes, if @IlstrawberrySeed wants it to be like an artillery gun, then yes, his design, with tweaks here and there, might work. An artillery shell (or mortar) is much bigger than a pistol round and it can have a strong roselit case, thick enough to withstand forces. But that thing won't “penetrate" a body, it will explode it into pieces. I think he just wants to have a bigger pistol, something like the Vindication - then it's almost impossible to make a bullet that small with so many details inside. I agree, spore guns work only on Lumar. If you want to fight Allomancers or Radiants and you have access to aluminum - just use normal guns with aluminum bullets, gunpowder is much more accessible (especially in the futuristic time period events of Tress are taking place) than use Lumar's spore guns.

That's why I said "likely born on Roshar", as it's not set in stone yet. We don't know that but she was born close to arrival on Roshar to be very young. Jez early 30? He has gray hair in prologue. In prelude yes, he's described as in his 30s: Because of the prologue description It would make him around 50-60 years old. I've tried to find Ash's age description, but she's only described as beautiful with long dark hair, mixed race and faint violet eyes. No mention of her age. Certainly young but how young it’s hard to say. Ore Jez could have another form of agelessness, partial even, slowing down his aging. Or he was in his 50/60s but because of posture, behavior etc, he was able to look like in his 30s? It's a stretch but how else do you explain his gray beard in the prologue? Because Heralds are young, Ash looks young, only Ishar looks old. Others look more or less middle-aged. That's why the war had to start quite fast for them to remain that age. And just look at the history of Mexico - "The first Spanish settlement was established in February 1519 by Hernán Cortés in the Yucatan Peninsula, accompanied by about 11 ships, 500 men, 13 horses and a small number of cannons. In March 1519, Cortés formally claimed the land for the Spanish crown and by 1521 secured the Spanish conquest of the Aztec Empire." - yes there was a huge technological difference, and the Spanish weren't refugees needing help. It's just to show how quickly people turn from settling to conquest. I distinguish them both, the First Human Desolation, when humans invited Roshar, and The First Fused Desolation. Possibly but I find that to be weird. Nale was the "enemy" of Jezrien, and yet was asked by him to participate. There was some weirdness happening there for sure, they might be turned into CR before the Oathpact was made. But I don't believe humans were living peacefully for decades or longer before starting war. That's not possible.

All soft-skinned Earth-like animals came with humans from Ashyn. Birds, chickens, horses, pigs etc. They were placed in Shinovar. But humans invade the rest of Roshar. They would take their livestock with them, their horses, pigs and minks (also partially domesticated) and other domesticated animals. They keep caring for them and make them safe during Highstorms. That's how they spread across the whole of Roshar. Other animals, like moles (?), minks and rats just left Shinovar on their own, as few resilient wild animals for example moles (were those moles or something different?) settled around Urithiru using snow as a soil. But all of those still don't have any gemheart. Horses evolved into Ryshadium and they do have gemheart (not confirmed) and a spren bond. But there are very few Earth-like animals that evolved like that. I'm not sure if Ryshadium isn't the only example of that. Horses being highly intelligent might be the reason for that, but Ryshadium intelligence is the result of a spren bond. There is a WoB confirming that from all non-native species on Roshar, only Ryshadium has a spren bond. Only they adapted, rest of Earth-like animals just were strong enough to spread across Roshar and live in that harsh environment, not all were able, like there are almost no wild birds.

Not really. Like you do, but you can still read it easily and catch up now. Unlikely. A-bronze detects only kinetic investiture. Possibly.

Circular, yes. But it's not orbiting you as you run in a circle (question is can you run in a circle fast enough to make that work). And the pull isn't applied constantly. Even without running (which now I think is what you meant), he waits for an object to get close to him, while it passes by pulls shortly on it, making it go behind him, pulls again, making it turn, and pulls to make it go in front of him. Basically pulling only when the object is making a turn. That's like a square with curvy tips. The force isn't applied consistently, it can't be because the distance between the lurcher and the object will keep getting shorter, and therefore that's not an orbit. No. He can't create a sideways velocity fast enough to make an orbit around him. And Earth's gravity will mess things up. And he can't move in space that easily. He can only pull things towards himself, nothing more. Right, kind of? Hard to say. That's not the same. The center of self even if revolving won't make the force of A-pull change directions, while a cowboy's hand IS forcing the change of direction to the rope, by pointing always away from the center. Look how his hand is moving when making the circle, it leads the rope into a specific direction. Center of self won't be able to create that force in that direction as it always makes the force on the shortest route - it would just make the force vector turn a bit left or right, not resolving around you. That's too short of a distance to make a difference like that. Changing your pull from your extended left hand to right hand will only create a mess of the path for the object that will constantly slow it down, and eventually make it go straight through your body, but unable to do so as it's too slow now. You would need to spin your whole body, extend your hand and pull the object towards your hand. But that's not an orbit, you're only creating one vector, you're just leading the object behind your hand in circles around you, while you spin. To be fair, what is the point of it? The best thing a Lurcher can do is to step back and pull it stronger as it passes next to him, for it to make a half-circle and go straight back to the person that launched that object towards the Lurcher. Good for dealing with a gun fire. But that's it. He can't even pull some static object towards himself, make it gain enough speed to go around him and be launched into some distant opponent, as that object's greatest speed is in the moment just before he starts to curve it. That object would just drop short of the target (unless the target is far closer than the initial position of that static lurched object). But there is literally no point in making something orbit around the Lurcher, it’s only making him focus just on that and lose attention to the surroundings.

Dawnshard. Read the Dawnshard novella. It's important to Cosmere. Just hearing Rhythms doesn't make you hear them and replicate them perfectly. You'll see. But Perfect pitch would be a useful tool that could help with that. But if you can't hear Rhythms at all, perfect pitch won't help. I don't like that theory, it's easier for Vasher to just give Navani 200 Breaths that he likely has. Not like that. Soothing or Rioting might have no effect on Rhythms - they are spiritual and those metals affect emotions. It might make it harder to tune into those specific Rhythms but that's not that useful, as Singers can already attune to a Rhythm they don't feel at all. How would that fork move to create that sound? And it can only create one frequency. And Rhythms are spiritual, not physical. I don't think it is possible to create a weapon like that. You could awaken a cloth to play on a violin a specific Rhythm but that would act like what Singers play to grow food, not like a weapon.

I don't think it was written during the change (but the change likely wasn't a singular event), because the poem is warning specifically against humans and their god, at the time this poem was written, Odium was still associated with humans and humans with Odium. If Eila Stele was warning about Odium itself, then this could be written in the change-over period, and the author would be warning Singers about turning towards Odium, which they would be witnessing. If the author was warning only against humans with no mention of Odium, then the author would likely be turning themself towards Odium. That's why this is happening before the turn to Odium, but likely after the spren betrayed them. Odium was likely already manipulating them, but not in a noticeable way for some to be worried about it. Yes that's very possible it was written before the full scale war happened. That's a good point. Raboniel could be born shortly after Ashynites arrival, so that's 15-20 years before her daughter was born, another 15-20 years before they were made into Fused. That sets up the time of Fused creation around 30-40 years after Ashynites arrival (enough for Ash to be born and grew up, she is the youngest and was likely born on Roshar). Then a few more years for Heralds to make Oathpact. But that's the minimum amount of time. It's possible that both Raboniel and her mother and grandmother were having their child very late, in their 30/40s, and Raboniel's grandmother was very young when Ashynites arrived. That can give us even more than a 100 years before Fused were made. Which would cause a lot of problems with Heralds' age and the overall timeline, so I think that's a far less likely scenario. But that doesn't prove anything about when the First Desolation and human invasion started. It started a few years after their arrival and lasted for decades before Singers were turned into Fused.

Why are you trying to make this analogy work as literal as possible? You chose what to store. You can try storing your balance, or try storing your leg - both of those things are in that room, you take them and try putting them through the hole - leg doesn't fit, balance does. The conversion into investiture doesn't happen as you pick up that object, but as it goes through the hole. The other side of the hole is the metalmind. Whatever is happening before an object is pushed through the hole is your mind trying to come up with something that can be stored. Not everything that you think of is a Feruchemical attribute, but you can still try it out with no result. Your body doesn't provide sufficient intent. Not in that case. The investiture of the attribute isn't formless in your body, before being stored. It's already in a very specific form of kinetic investiture, hearable and distinguishable by a Seeker. He is able to tell if what you're trying to store is strength, speed or age, and that's BEFORE it goes into a metalmind. That's why you need to know what it is, as your body converts that attribute into a very specific form of a kinetic investiture, not something formless which gains from from a metal. What I meant is that except for that one WoB there is no sign of a Fullmind happening anytime soon in Mistborn series. Medallions - yes, Primar Cubes - yes, Atium, Lerasium, Harmonium and Trellium - yes, in those sectors the advancement will happen because of those metals. Nobody ever wonders if you can store more than one attribute from different metals in a single metalmind. A Fullmind won't happen anytime soon. That's why I won't be arguing about it anymore. There is a WoB clearly stating that for proper intent to work you need to understand what is happening, and what effect it will have. That's why compounding didn't work for Inquisitors, that's why Sazed wasn't able to figure out what aluminum and Malatium does, that's why Awakening requires a clear command and visualization, that's why you need to know what to store in unknown metalmind. This explanation ties perfectly to other aspects of intent in Cosmere. That's it from me on this topic. No need to reply (not said in an angry voice ) SA: Cosmere: Good question. But I think the answer is no, because Autonomy wouldn't be that much invested in the system to spark a magic system. She would likely heve to be fully invested to do so, but she can't as long as she is bound to Taldain. SA: SA: Hemalurgy isn't Awakening, it doesn't matter that metal was never alive. It's more about how strongly connected the charge is to a spike. If it's too strong, simple playing won't push it out of the spike. SA: That would be true if you could have less than 1 atom. But you can't have half of a cesium atom. It will always end up on 1 last atom, which would decay fully, leaving you with 0 atoms. Of course, you need a lot of time. If investiture has a smallest unit/particle, then it will go down to 0 as it hits 1, and cannot divide it by 2, if not then it will go down to numbers less than 1 but greater by 0, never hitting 0 like you said. Likely, Axon might be just that smallest unit, as it is equivalent to our Atom but having Investiture as a part of it. Is the soul made out of Axi with no physical matter and energy? Maybe. Who knows? Cosmere:

No you don't. That doesn't work. The pulling is happening in a straight line between your center of self and the pulled object, rotating the center of self doesn't change the direction of the pull, it changes nothing. It still pulls the object to the same point in your body. Just like the rotation of the Earth doesn't change the point to which a satellite is attracted gravitationally. Even if your center of self is making circles inside your body, it is still pulling the object straight towards it. You won't ever create a vector that would point outside of your body with this method. no matter where you place your center of self. You won't create a side force constantly acting on the object by changing where your center of self is located. Yyyy, rail gun? Maybe. But why? Yes, by moving in circles and pulling in the right moment it could work. But that isn't really an orbit.

No it won't work. Iron pulls go straight towards you, not next to you. Just pushing that object with your finger won't do that, as you need a constant horizontal force acting in the perpendicular direction from the pull of A-iron - because of the atmosphere and gravity. That would require quite fast speeds, not Earth's orbits fast, but too fast to push it with a finger or be safe for you. An object pulled from a far away would gain a lot of speed, too much for you to push it with a finger, and lessening the pull would not lessen its velocity. An object in motion will stay in motion unless a force acts on it. It would kill you, and rip off your finger on the way. Yes, it depends on the mass and distance: v = sqrt(GM/R) and v=2piR/T . But on Earth you have gravity always pulling it down, which, as Quantus said, needs to be counteracted, air drag slowing it down, which means you need not a perpendicular velocity like in space, but constant horizontal perpendicular force, acceleration to combat that air drag. And third one is the pull towards you, which has to be very precise, not too strong, not too weak. You can only create the last force. You have no way of combating the gravity, no way of combating the air drag, and no way of applying constant perpendicular acceleration. Pushing it with your finger would rip your finger off and won't do anything as that's only a singular push. You would have to first hold the metal in your hand, pull it with iron, spin around and constantly push it with your extended hand. But gravity still remains, and spinning is painful and useless.

That's also a likely scenario. But conflict started with human invasion, and I doubt Singers were already having forms of powers before that (again The Eila Stele warns about the human's Void and their god, this means that Singers were not align with Odium at that time, nor did they had first bonds with Voidspren). Likely it was a combination of many different things happening at once, just like with Recreance. I don't think restrictions were put when Honor invested Roshar, as it's not about the planet Roshar, he was bound to the whole system, his restrictions would likely also affect Surgebinding on Ashyn and likely prevent its destruction from happening. Also I think it was said in books that Honor restricted Surges in response to the destruction of Ashyn.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. "I will be there when I'm needed" should be their second ideal. The description also kind of supports that Stonewards are focusing on teamwork, working with others and being where they are needed. Hard to say now, as my idea doesn't work that well with that, unless making the 2nd a two part ideal, as they both fit together. "I will stand when others fall" might be a variation of "I will be there when I'm needed", they are really similar and mean almost the same thing - both imply there is a need, and you're there to help and stand. In that case it can still work.

No, you can't pull a metal to the place where you're not there. A-iron pulls to the center of self, not even the center of your mass, so gravity and mass do not matter. You can't pull to the place outside of your body, only a very skilled Lurcher would be able to pull towards a hand for example. A very experienced Lurcher could extend his hand and pull the metal towards it while spinning. That's the closest you can get to orbit. But being constantly in a spin would be very unpleasant, to put it mildly.

No. Your body has almost no gravitational force, Earth massively overshadows it. A-iron also pulls in a straight line, you would not be able to pull it in such a way to curve it without moving, nor your gravity is strong enough to do that for you. Not to mention A-iron is weak. For objects to stay in Earth's orbit they need to move tens of thousands of m/s. Faaaar too much for Allomancy to produce. Vin in TFE when she was pushing herself for the first time up to the wall, did it in a few seconds. It took her a few seconds to get to the top of a 10 or so meter high wall (or higher I don't know if there is a number). Later she became better, but the speed she was able to produce was still small. But that's compared to Earth's orbits. For objects to be in orbit you need 2 things - a force pulling it towards you, and a perpendicular velocity, making it "miss" you. You have a force pulling it towards you, A-iron, but no perpendicular velocity and now way of making it. Plus air drag will be constantly slowing it down, so there is no way for you to create a force perpendicular to A-iron pull, to give that object orbital velocity. It's like having a ball tied to the end of the string, start spinning that string and it will make a circle, but you need to constantly apply force to uphold that speed, otherwise a ball will fall. You don't have that sideways force, you only have a "string" with A-iron.

If the Radiant said "either you side with us or them" I think it's pretty clear they aren't in good relations. Otherwise they would not compete for the same planet (in secret to add more).

With this I meant Fused proper Surgebinding. Your interpretation is also likely. Yes, now I think it's very possible that the way Singer grew food or Dawnsingers were shaping stone is by using some primitive Surges. And I think we can say that's the case based on, Mistborn spoilers: Singers were unknowingly singing/playing the Rhythm of the Surge of Cohesion, or the Surge of Progression, and this sparked the proper effect according to their intent. Skyeals or Chasmfiends do use Surgebinding, as they have a Nahel Bond formed with Gravitationspren. In return they got their weight reduced, with the use of the Surge of Gravitation. I'm not arguing that. Yeah, that shouldn't be possible, no matter the quality of the wood used for that. Wood is just too light, and the side of the wagon too wide, to resist Highstorm. It should act like a sail. After all that Highstorm is able to pick up trees and stones off the ground, a wide wooden wagon should go flying, or be torn to shreds by rock and wood flying through it. Those need to be heavy, not light, otherwise wide sides of the wagon would act like a sail. There are metal bars in it, that's additional weight, likely considerable, but I doubt normal wagons have bars for slaves too.