Kingsdaughter613

The term actually means Master, with the root Rabon/Ribon. Like:Ribono shel Olam (Master of the world). It is often used as teacher, however. Moshe is called Rabeinu (our teacher/master). We only use the term for our greatest sages, such as Rabeinu Gershon, Me’or HaGadol (Our teacher/master Gershon, (from) the Great Light.) Rebbi is possibly the possessive. Hebrew sometimes drops the last letter/syllable in the singular personal possessive. So Rebbi May just be ancient slang for Riboni/Raboni. Or it could be another word entirely. Rav is seen as a name and word; sometimes the dagesh is removed/added when adding possessives. The word you’re talking about is Rabon/Ribon, however. That one typically means master.

Just to note: the sibling has no gender

She is born before SA. However, her timeline does not add up.

Actually, what makes him TRULY terrifying is that he DOES care. But he does it ANYWAY.

Gotta disagree with you. After finishing RoW I’m waiting for TLM. Hopefully we’ll get some GB clues... anyone else scouring W&W for hints?

Possibly. Assuming it is an Aviar. I wonder why she couldn’t regrow the feathers...?

It’s always been Vav. I’m not sure what you mean by voiced? I don’t know the roots for Mordechai, except the end, which is Chai. Just because English writes something with two vowels doesn’t mean both are pronounced. I’ve always pronounced Sadeas as Sadeze, for example. Anyway, why don’t you argue this with Brandon? He’s the one who says it’s a Semitic language, so complain to him about it. Until then I’m going with what the author says, and we can get this topic back on track.

Fricatives do exist in Hebrew. Not so much in modern Ivrit. Mostly S and Kh (which is a single continuous sound) with some F sounds. All those sounds exist in Alethi. Mordechai is a combination name, just like 90% of Jewish names. The ‘names’ are actually full sentences. Root words (Shorashim) almost never - if ever - have consonant clusters. Arabic, Aramaic and Hebrew (the three Semitic languages I’m familiar with) all sound similar to me. There’s plenty of overlap in the words. I could recognize Alethi as being a Semitic type language by the way the words were written/sounded. Per Brandon, Alethi is a “Semitic language mashup with some Mediterranean influences” and there is no indication that he considered Spanish at all, beyond Spanish being a Romance language. The Romantic (French) mixed with German is a Scadrian thing, not a Rosharan one. Which makes sense; Roshar is loosely Middle Eastern/Far Eastern, while Scadrial is Europe/the US. Which means Rosharans would likely have trouble pronouncing Kell’s very French sounding name. The double vowel doesn’t really seem to exist within their language. And Kell wouldn’t be able to pronounce Kholin without connection - no, actually he might considering how much time he’s spent in the Germanic speaking South.

I half-want Kell to show up on Roshar just to see Hoid’s expression when he enters the room. I also think events on Roshar lead Hoid to realize he needs to take Kell more seriously, which is why he gives the Coppermind to Wax.

Brandon has repeatedly stated that Alethi is a Semitic language. You are welcome to take it up with him. Also, everything you said is ALSO true of Hebrew. Especially old Hebrew, which is the one I’m familiar with. For example: Min Ha’mayim Mishisihu. No consonant clusters. The reason you may not recognize it in names is due to the roots, so most names are more like Adolin’s. Yishmael, for example, is actually: Yi - future prefix; Shema - root meaning listen; El - God. The whole meaning God will listen. Yitzchak: Yi - future prefix; Tzachak - laughter. Yakov: Y - prefix; Akev- ankle. As you can see, once you break the names down, there are no consonant clusters. What is a fricative?

A long discussion on the Dawnshard forum.

Or some Feruchemists have joined the Rosharans straight up. Harmony doesn’t approve of what Kell is up to, though he won’t interfere. Directly, anyway. If one of his agents was interfering - or even just spying - I can totally see Kell ordering him taken out. Of course, it’s possible that someone else killed the Feruchemist and Mraize was there to collect the offworld artifacts when the Aviar freaked. Which would be an interesting twist.

Oh, I’m not annoyed or anything. A lot of people don’t know, so I like to put the information out there. This way they can discover and learn and not make those mistakes. You’re more likely to discover these things on random forums now then in dry history books, lol!

I pick one person: Vin. The GBs have now joined the anti-Odium coalition, as Kell is going to help his daughter. Oh, I get more people? Elend. So that’s two powerful Mistborn, plus the Fullborn and his ‘crew’ they just converted... Nalthis: Vasher and Nightblood. Sel: Shai. Although her powers won’t work she has many other abilities that will. Taldain: Khriss for her knowledge. Kenton for his skill. Threnody: Nazh, because he comes with Khriss. Silence because she’s awesome. First of the Sun: Sixth of the Dusk and Vathi, if only because they are the only two characters we have from there. Roshar: Dalinar, as the Stormfather’s Bondsmith. Kaladin because... I think this is obvious. Yolen: Hoid and Frost, the only two non-Shardic beings we know came from there. Yeah, Odium is chull food. Now, if we can just keep Kell and Hoid from each other’s throats...

He also doesn’t need it. He’s a Sliver.

I like to read old literature, and if you go back far enough the sources of certain connotations become clear. I was also taught a lot of these in Jewish history class, and they come up in many fiction and non-fiction books involving the Jewish communities of pre-Holocaust Europe. Pretty much every negative trait in European literature is anti-Semitic in origin, which is where you want to be careful about using them as an easy ‘evil’ sign. Unfortunately, many modern authors don’t seem to be aware of these issues, while those that hate us use those books to confirm their biases. It’s a problem. I think Cunning would be an interesting Shard, especially since it usually has negative connotations. It’s a perfect place for subversion, with Cunning actually being good. Or maybe it’s the Shard that wants to survive, it’s intelligence telling it to get away from all the murder-happy Shards.

You realize that Felt recognizing Kell, if this isn’t Kell, is a problem due to the issue above? I don’t think Brandon is going to be that unfair to his new readers. If this was a trick, I think Hoid would have mentioned a Scadrian with a spike through his eye and Felt would inform Shallan and Adolin that the only one he knew of was Ironeyes, but that he was definitely not behind the GBs. “It’s the sort of thing his brother would do, but the Survivor died long ago.” This still points Shallan in the correct direction (Scadrial), hints at Kell for those in the know, but doesn’t give the secret away. And it makes Hoid’s decision to get the ‘Kell is back, is the Sovereign, and has a SPIKE in his eye’ all the more explicable. With regard to linguistics: Are there differences in pronunciation between the different worlds in the cosmere? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Do you have any record of that? Brandon Sanderson So, it depends on the culture and things like that, what it's going to be like. You can kind of bet in Mistborn it's going to be French, if it's from the Central Dominance. So they'll say "Kelsi-ay" and "De-MOH" but where Elend's from is a lot more Germanic so "EE-lend" "STRAHFF" and stuff like that. The other worlds are all going to have their different things. In Roshar you are going to get some of the "YAS-nah kHo-LIN" it's going to be a little more Semitic in its language family. #demoux #elend #jasnah #kelsier #pronounciations #straff Steelheart release party (Sept. 24, 2013) #3 Questioner So, how do you pronounce [Jasnah's] name? Brandon Sanderson They use the J as a Y. But you don't have to say it that way, you can say it how you want. Because they actually use a guttural, sort of Middle-Eastern <koh>, which is in Kholin. You can say the names however you want, but that is the pronunciation style that I'm using. It's very Semitic, the language family. Questioner In Alethkar, a lot of the consonant sounds are “C” sounds or “K’s”, like Kaladin. [Can’t hear the rest of the question here very well] Brandon Sanderson It’s just based on the rules I came up for it when I was designing it. They’re mostly semitic origins or middle eastern origins. Kholin is actually [pronounces it], but I don’t expect the audiobook narrators to do “chuh” every time they see a “kh”. The “k” is a “c” sound. That and the “j” are the only weird ones, for Alethi. In Tashikk, I can’t even do the Arabic glottal. The double “q” or the double “k” in the Azish often is that, but I can’t do it. Peter can. Jasnah's name. What was the origin for it? Brandon Sanderson Jasnah's name predates most of the language work that I did. It comes from ancient, kind of Semitic languages-- playing around with those. And then her name became one of the ones that I built the language around. Because after I had named her, and written the whole book, I had named her and Dalinar. Kaladin's name changed once I had rebuilt the linguistics. Shallan's name changed once I rebuilt the linguistics. But Dalinar and Jasnah kind of became the origins. But it's ancient-- you know, a blend of Arabic and Hebrew. It's kind of-- yeah. Does "Alethi" come from or have anything to do with the Greek word for truth or is that just a coincidence? Brandon Sanderson Alethi is a coincidence. However, it is the sort of coincidence that happens a lot for me in languages, as I often look for a "feel" for a language. Alethi, for example, is a Semitic language mashup with some Mediterranean influence. So I'm not surprised if it means something in the right languages. (I did this with Straff and Elend from Mistborn, looking for Germanic-sounding words and accidentally using two words from German.) What is the origin of the name Kaladin? My wife and I recently had our first child and that's what we named him. Just curious if there's any story behind the name. Brandon Sanderson I use Arabic in some of the creation of Alethi names, and Kaled (or Khaled) was the root I started playing with to come up with a new name for Kaladin, as I didn't like the one I'd used in 2002. I'd already designed Kalak after this, the Herald, and wanted a common name version of this. When I arrived at Kaladin, it sounded right to me--likely because of the similarity to Paladin, as others noted below. Dragonsandman So if Kaladin's name is derived from Khaled, is it fair to assume that the Alethi language sounds similar to Arabic? Brandon Sanderson Alethi has some Hebrew to it too. I used Semitic language roots for the Dawnchant, which had a huge influence on Rosharan languages. While there are a few oddballs rules, and some linguistics that stand on their own, both major language groups on Roshar (the Azish family and the Vorin family) would probably sound very Arabic to you. For example, the Alethi Kh is a voiceless velar fricative.The Azish kk or q sound is a voiceless uvular, sometimes stop, sometimes an affricate. Sometimes a uvular ejective. No, I can't make those sounds on demand. Peter can, though. It's helpful to have a linguist on my team. There are more, but I think I’ve made my point. Alethi is a Semitic language. I speak some Hebrew, and I’ve known it since before I read these WoB because the similarities are very evident. I’m not sure why you thought it was Spanish?

The Mist does seem to have a faint light, and does not behave like normal mist. Also, I think WoB says that both Mist and Stormlight are forms of gaseous investiture. Ruin’s Mist is pure black.

Cunning has no indication of a need to control others. It can also just be the ability to be shrewd, to recognize the most intelligent course, to know when they are being tricked or when it’s time to back out of a bad situation. The negative associations of cunning have anti-Semitic origins. Your list of traits is rather offensive, and is essentially a list of anti-Semitic stereotypes. A wise author should avoid using and propagating those. (This is a VERY big issue with traditionally negative Western traits - they ALL have anti-Semitic origins and associations.)

The GBs killed him, so assuming Kell is Thaidakar that steward wasn’t his.

Right now TLM comes after. I’m pretty sure the Thaidakar reveal is why Brandon and Karen are having a fun time with timelines right now. It seems they’ve been having some trouble figuring out when to put Mistborn with regard to SA. I’m blaming Kell’s shenanigans.

Yep. A couple had read MB era1, and didn’t know about SH or figured it was a novella. One had been advised to read Era 2 first and didn’t want to read three more books before reading RoW. I’ve advised a few who said ‘just finished MB; going to read SA/RoW’ to read SH first, and preferably all of MB. Yes, I can’t imagine Felt is there for any other reason. I’m hoping he goes, “Lord Kelseeay” with proper Scadrian pronunciation - and none of our Semitic speaking Alethi can pronounce the name correctly at all.

This. My daughter has major cognitive delays due to brain damage and the Adolin-Maya scenes really resonated. They portrayed that relationship so well. I’m glad it’s not a quick fix for Maya, but slow and steady progress. RoW is my favorite SA book thanks to those scenes.

Weird thought... One potential loophole is Odium and Honor being held by the same person. This can create a draw, in the sense that you can’t fight yourself. Or it creates a new Shard, who isn’t bound to the original agreement.

I agree that we are beginning to see the hostile relationship get started. And Kell and Hoid have their... personal issues with one another. But the hint was blatant enough that new readers were spoiled on Kell’s survival. I ran into a few on Reddit. And it also means that at least some fans going from SA to MB, as many do, will also be spoiled regarding Kell’s survival. If this isn’t Kell, then that isn’t a very nice way to treat new fans who deserve to discover Mistborn’s secrets through those books. If this was a trick, then Hoid could have just told Shallan this was a Scadrian. Possibly mentioning that said Scadrian only has one eye or has spikes. That still points Shallan in the right direction, but it doesn’t give away Kell’s survival to new readers. “Lord of Scars” does.