Michael Portz

But how many years of the millennia which passed on Roshar did they actually spent in the presence of (aka trying to kill) Windrunners? Only during the desolations. This is imho not enough to rub anything off.

I stick to my "salespitch" theory, because: I don't think the act of torturing (anybody, but here: Heralds on Braize) for 90+% of your lifetime is honorable at all. So honor is not something coming natural to them. So "Lets be honorable from now on and try to enthrall some Honorspren" is a stratagem. Voila, qed ... edt: "behave honorable" => "be honorable"

I can't imagine this is not already discussed somewhere. So please point me to any ongoing discussions. But ... We all are wondering, why the Heavenly/Ancient Ones are behaving so honorable. Kaladin and Leshwi are already discussed in the shipping sections. Could it be that they just behave with honor, because they want to get the attention of the Honorsprens and thus to dispute the humans on Roshar one of their biggest resources in their fight against Odiums forces? Apparently the Honorspren are already having second thoughts of supporting the humans. Don't get me wrong: I don't claim, that they FAKE being honorable, as I don't think that Honorspren would fall for a ruse. Just that they started being honorable because of this very reason.

I cannot imagine that eternal live has any attraction to them after their millennia on Braize. Rine explicitly states: So iff the Ancient Ones do have autonomy, they will do what they think is right.

Well spotted!

I see more fuzziness in this chapter than in the previous ones. There everything was clear cut action 1 => Shallan, action 2 => Veil etc., but here in Chapter 6 apparently switches take place in one single thought; it begins as Veil, turns to Shallan and is back to Veil before it the thought is finished.

How so?

So now I am finally worried about Shallan. This quote suggests imho that the border between the personalities is getting more and more fuzzy.

Perhaps you should start with offering your coworker a redemption arc ... *whistleinnocently* Hmm, iff it hadn't been Kaladin running there, then it had been somebody else of Bridge 4. Kaladin at that point was already the bridger with the highest probability of survival.

I do find it hard to believe, that Yalb is not aware of the fact, that they transported Jasnah Kholin on the Winds of Pleasure. When first transporting Shallan the crew must have been aware, that Shallan wanted to find Jasnah Kholin, the famous scholar. When they left Kharbranth with two passengers, they all must have been aware, that the elder boss woman was Jasnah Kholin. And I find it hard to believe as well, that when announcing the new Alethi Queen nobody found it worth mentioning that this queen was Jasnah Kholin. *shrug* Just my two pence ...

That ... sounds worse than no feedback ... ...

There should be a monument for the poor chull drivers back in Urithuru or Shattered Plains respectively, who make Fourth Bridge (and other barges) possible in the first place. I imagine they swear a lot, getting all these instructions, without having the slightest idea about and without getting the slightest sensory feedback of Fourth Bridge's actual maneuvers

I can only join the bandwagon, the focus on stuff that is important for the whole story is the right thing to do. <heresy> Perhaps this was one of the things he learned from his work on WoT, which imho has at least 2 books in the first ten which I could have done without *duckandcover* </heresy>

Weeeeell ... I won‘t call 10 years (15, if you start counting with Elantris) of cosmere publications „quick“

Ahhh, these tidbits about the lost year :-) Fixed Windrunner / Fused duels Ash and Taln interviewed by Jasnah Cord has been to Aimia ... *ROTFL*

I don't know The above mentioned reddit pointer suggests, that this whole setting is a mini-bravalanche from a never-to-appear book describing the year gone by. I just can't imagine, that the home-coming of the 4th Bridge will take up many chapters. *think*

Thanks for the reddit-pointer; his intention matches exactly the feeling I got, even though I did not know this of Brandons commentaries. Again I am awestruck, what a great story builder he is. I am so excited about what to expect from Navani's defenses.

I do not think pacifism automatically contradicts any of the Nahel Bond oaths. It will be a lot more work, for sure, but if anybody can pull this stunt it is Lirin.

Why not just let a KR or squire suck it from the sphere?

I don't think, there is too much to the Kaladin / Lirin conflict. Just try to remember that they have a lot to catchup in their relationship, as Requiem17 already said: Kaladin seems to have visited Hearthstone frequently. His mother is well aware of his personal situation (e.g. about the details of his relationships to Lyn and Syl). Moreover she knows of Lirins and Kaladins problems with each other and tries to arbitrate: The whole scene to me has the vibes of an everyday situation in many families all over the world: Son comes home after work. Father notices (again) that the son is not what the father hoped him to be when he was little. They struggle a bit but only halfheartedly. I am confident, it will turn out ok.

And KalaLyn is over bevor it was ever shipped ...

Thanks loads for your dedication over all these years, Team 17thshard.com!

Can't we pin this thread?

Although in general I think you are right, in this cited point you are wrong. If I correctly understood the mechanisms (see below), the weakest link determined the coming of the desolation. So you might even find nine more "Taln-a-likes", but either the weakest of them is weaker than Taln, then the desolation would come earlier than 4500 years, or the weakest ist not weaker than Taln, then the desolation comes exactly as it indeed came.

Oh, there you did misunderstand me; it does not have to increase much. The worldhoppers are visible and active and they meddle. At least the hoppers from Nalthis have already figured out how to get their investiture on Roshar, others do, too, or might figure it out. Subtle is only Brandon's display of their deeds and powers, and the display of it might stay so. Hoid is already calling the other shards for help. Emissaries will be sent. There will be intervention. And if the events in and around Roshar are as crucial for the cosmere as I think, then it would be foolish from either side to ignore the potential of Hemalurgy. Mind you, thats of course only my current "vision" ;-)