Michael Portz

I think ruthless and brutal and egomaniac and incredibly powerful is enough to be as dangerous as Hoid says. You neither need to add "intelligent" to that nor can imply "intelligence" from it. But even that is besides the point, because I was only referring to the manipulation of Hoids memory and only that and was trying to explain, why Hoid apparently did not expect Rayse to be able to do so, or -attention, new idea- it all was a bait to see HOW intelligent the current vessel of Odium actually was. Moreover I think that Mr. T is quite intelligent and knowledgeable even without the Boon-Burst :-)

Well ... I come back thinking about ... (Mistborn Spoilers ahead) Can we have the same situation here? I.e. that Taravangian just is a very intelligent and knowing person, where Rayse might have just been a simple minded one, and that that more than the power defined their abilities? So Hoid had perhaps just prepared for the wrong adversary. Having seem how Brandon again and again tries to incorporate modern concepts in math, physics etc. into his storytelling, I would guess that Hoid will have a way to failsafe store his memories and already did so. This failsafe might not be available at once, but when going into restore mode he will notice and perhaps even correct the damage done. What bothers me more is the concept of the storage. The altered memory as we actually see it is only the one about very recent events. You usually don't put this short term stuff into external storage.

Because it conflicts with my imagination of Brandons or any other powerful writing process. The basic idea of the scene is: "And then the fragile, old, dying king slays the incredibly powerful godlike being with an incredibly powerful weapon he just happens to find and takes the role of the god." This is great, but not original enough and not Roshar specific enough that Brandon will keep it such a long time. The described events do not fullfil my expectation (for this being THE scene) either; well written, tense, exciting, but nothing we have not seen as good or better by Brandon, even in this book. (Don't get me wrong: The scene is all what you say about it, and above all important!!!!) How about Eshonais Death scene? The fallen hero, being smashed about by the forces, fighting, dying, progressing, ascending. And then the THE FLIGHT OVER ROSHAR ... now THAT is something I can imagine being written by Brandon so long ago and cherished and saved and now finally published.

I am still at a loss. None of the so far mentioned scenes had the right “fit” for me. - Navanis role wasn’t yet planned. - I do not see the scope in the epilogue. - Regarding Kaladins oath I beg to ask: Why should THIS oath be the “driving” one, why not the first, second, third or fifth? - The replacement of the Odium vessel is surprising, shocking, implication loaded; and it might be the best guess so far, but I am not wholly convinced, either :-/

Yes, right, but wasn’t the initial question which title he actually lost to a human? My vote clearly goes to ‘Voice of Lights’ after spontaneously thinking ‘He who quiets’ (which after reconsideration does not make sense at all).

Admittedly I was sure, I had picked up that Shallan was supposed to have reached level 4 at the end of Oathbringer, but can't find any quote for this. Darn, I was so convinced that Shallan had reached level 5 with her progression ...

Yeah, but nobody said that Koravellium Avast could not be Frosts sister! HA! (translated: Yeah, you are right, I should have tried coppermind before posting ) ps: There IS a thread where it is speculated that Cultivation IS a dragon:

The last sentence of Taravangians perception hints at a fundamentally different form of Cultivations vessel, aka the form of the one promised Dragon:

I am confused, how can this NOT be a progression??? I take it as granted, that Shallan now is level 5.

Another angle for consideration, crossposted: I think, Cultiviation prepared three weapons against Rayse, not knowing or really caring which one would work in the end: Dalinar, Taravangian and Lift. Let's have a look of Hoids letter to "the old reptile", which we now can safely guess is Cultivations vessel. These are from chapters 18 and 19: and We never really found out, when these letter was actually written. So it might well be, that Cultivations manipulations of the three was initialized by this very letter. Apparently she agreed, that everything was better than Rayse holding Odium

Another angle for consideration, cross posted:

I think, Cultiviation prepared three weapons against Rayse, not knowing or really caring which one would work in the end: Dalinar, Taravangian and Lift. Let's have a look of Hoids letter to "the old reptile", which we now can safely guess is Cultivations vessel. These are from chapters 18 and 19: and We never really found out, when these letter was actually written. So it might well be, that Cultivations manipulations of the three was initialized by this very letter. Apparently she agreed, that everything was better than Rayse holding Odium.

My most extreme LOL was Cord shooting the Shardbow arrow straight into Nales face and immediately reloading, unperturbed ...

Chapter 67, “Song of Stones”: Venli discovering her calling as Dawnsinger/Shaper So far my “teariest” moment

YIKES, sorry, unintentionally posted out of RoW area without spoiler braces ... The full quotes were: and

Sorry for coming back so late to you and @Rushu42! I can follow you regarding the creation of the Dawnshards, this might well be. On the other hand, I did not find it too difficult to see a difference between Command and Intent. The Command describes what is to be done, the Intent describes the goal of the action. This leaves of course lots to be done, like the "Why" or the "How" or who pays the bagels, im my view typical Investiture stuff. So my personal hierarchy would be Command (gods only) => Intent (shards) => Investiture (everybody more or less physical)

Yes, of course, but I don’t think that’s all. A chapter title has more meanings than something only mentioned in three spots. It MIGHT hint at the not so obvious importance of it, though.

Do not worry! Ask yourself instead, who of the Radiant protagonists will be left to defend Urithuru when everybody else is on important missions ...

Why ... is the title of this chapter "Garnets" ??? From the coppermind: So lets add the question: Why Lightweavers?

That was not anticlimactic but postclimactic :-)

Can it be, that there is a typo in the paragraph? To "make a command" sounds unusual to my (german) ears. Would not "make a demand" suit better? Iff so, then the passage in my view totally supports the notion that the Dawnshards can only be correctly used by "deities". Follow me through this: a Dawnshard is the Command to "use a Dawnshard" means to "give the Command" to "make a Demand" means to additionally have an Intention behind the Command the most powerful form of Surgebinding, the presumably "right way to use a Dawnshard" is to "make a Demand" From this it would follow that only deities can use a Dawnshard "in the right way". This of course would not exclude the possibility that the Dawnshard can be used for other purposes by non-deities. Disclaimer: Dont put me on the stake for randomly capitalizing words loosely connected to the Cosmere ... *blush*

Well ... in terms of the topics title ... what I have learned is, that even after 15 years in the cosmere I can still be absolutely awestruck with its stories. ... Back to the less emotional interaction with the topic ...

And now something completely different. [Kaladin’s definitive 4th oath] ... [better not read it] ... [I warned you....] .... “I will treat every appendicitis like I will treat Odium himself!”

I am quite sure that this entry belongs to the former chapter :-)

Ok, I missed that I guess; it was as you said, too, the strange time gap at the beginning which made me think "new book" automatically :-)