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Agreed, though that would imply that it's a relatively recent development in radiant history and that Honor previously did it. But even if that's the case, Im still unclear on why (or even if, I suppose) that's only the case for Honorspren and not all spren (since all are some amount of Honor). Does Cultivation ever play that role, for example? Is it specific to Honorspren as a race, and is it a Choice or something innate about them? If he's the one that Accepts their Oaths, what going ont hat makes him able to do that but still need to ask them to actuall Bond at all (in light of the windrunner shortage and the envoy mission).

We know that each order/race has different methods/ideas of how radiants are chosen (Individual Choice, assigned by Committee, etc). But despite that, I had the impression that the actual Oaths, their Acceptance and their ultimate interpretation, was always between the Spren and Radiant. At least that always seemed to be the stance in WOB's. So why did the Stormfatehr chime in as the one to accept Windrunner Oaths? He did for Kaladin, and others, but not for any other race/order that I can recall. I had kind of assumed that he was just in charge of the Honorspren directly the way the Council or whatever is in charge of Cultivationspren's bonding choice, but I never before noticed the distinction in how The Stormfather actually does the individual Oath Accepting for Windrunners. And now we learned that while he apparently has a lot of clout with them, he is not actually in charge and/or cant just Order them to Bond a Radiant the way the Cultivationspren's Council does. So unlike the Cultivationspren Council he doesnt decide when and who they Bond, but he does do the Oat Accepting, which seems a strange difference. I wonder if it's always been this way, or if he's stepping into something new since became so much more post-Tanavast. I wonder if this is the only Order he gets involved in? I wonder if the other two Godspren have a similar role with any other Races. Thoughts?

I think the key bit in that is the part that says "Over time using magic will Invest you". It sounds like we're talking about the natural beginning steps of what eventually becomes Savantism: the more you USE investiture, the more it sticks to you and changes you. So in the context of "Would an UnSnapped Mistborn have additional Investiture and stall on their way to the Beyond?" I think the Answer is a simple "No" because until they go through the process of Snapping and forming those Spiritual Connections in the cracks (which is the explicitly states purpose of Snapping), and likely then following up by actually USING Investiture, they are not yet a Mistborn. They are just a person with Mistborn potential, no more invested than all the non-Elantrians with the correct connections for that potential (Scadrial's increased baseline notwithstanding).

Well, according to Cord the one on Aimia arrived on Roshar in far more recent times than the initial migration, since the Horneater's have cultural memory of it's arrival through the perpendicularity. So if there was one involved in the migration era and/or the fall of Ashyn, it was most likely a different DawnShard.

Welcome! Im going to put the this entirely behind a Spoiler tag until the thread gets moved, just to be sure:

The real question to ask The Branderson is whether that statement ("one is different") is still the case after the events of Dawnshard. That would tell us if the Difference is in it's storage state (which changes) or something more fundamental. EDIT: A New WOB confirmed that the "One is Different" has not changed fromt eh Novella, so this is far less likely. Thanks, @Gilphon! My first thought after reading this was that each of the 4 dawnshard corresponds to one of the 4 quadrants of the Shards (under the Quadratn theory that says the Shards can be categorized in the same quadrant chart as the Metallic Arts). If that assumption proves true, it means the Dawnshards would correspond to the quadrants/realmic States: Physical, Mental, Spritual, and Temporal. Thus Im guessing the CHANGE dawnshard is the Temporal one, and the others are something like "BE" for physical and perhaps "DOUBT" as a very Descartes idea of "I Doubt therefore I Think therefor I AM" for the Cognitive. I cant decide if the Temporal one is the the different one by not having a Realm associated with it, or if Spiritual would be the oddball is the rest is all supposed to flow From the Spiritual Realm. On the other hand, it could be Neither, and one of htem (maybe this one) is different because of something that changed. Maybe it was used up, or shattered, Evolved, or otherwise changed. TL:DR I think we need to try and confirm which of the follwing is the "difference" referenced: Storage - it was different because it was stored in the mural and not a person, etc. This chages in Dawnshard, so we might pin this one down. Nature - one of them is fundamentally different than the rest. (See above for a possible framework for this sort of thing) Charge - Maybe one was used up, shattered, or otherwise rendered inoperable. Maybe it's a topaz... Evolution (Developing Sentience) - Per WOB, Investiture left alone too long will naturally gain sentience. Roshar seems like a particularly good place for this sort of thing to happen. And the Dawnshard has been sitting alone in a wall for hundreds if not thousands of years, with nothing but a fundamental drive to Change... It then seems to bubble ideas up in her as if they were her own, but the Dawnshard also does refer to her as a separate entity in those thoughts. The Sleepless, of course, think that's impossible.

Ahh, missed it by that much

Roshar has a history of Elscalling, so they probably have the easiest access to Shadesmar, but by the same virtue they will struggle a lot more to actually leave and worldhop. Nalthis has an established trade route, but we dont actually know how CR access works (if it's a Breath Command or still a shardpool, etc) to know how easy/common it actually is. Sel is my vote of the ones we've seen. Theoretically every member of the Ire was born on Sel, and thats the largest group of worldhoppers with a single origin we know of. I think we have a winner, unless we are asking about current worldhoppers. Im curious how the Yolen population fares these dates.

There is apparently both gravity and atmosphere (proven humidity presence), so all the mechanisms of terminal velocity are there. Whether the math works out such that terminal velocity in shadesmar is damaging, hard to say but the perception-based nature of things makes me default to assume it would be comparable to Roshar's reduced gravity (0.7G). So lacking other evidence, Id say it will likely damage the average person but would technically be less than earth (or rather, similar damage that would take a slightly higher fall).

No, but Im constantly having daydreams where I show up at theirs. Me and Navani could design such wonderful things...

I assume Soother Vs Rioter battles would be a common enough thing, as could opposing Rioting (imagine randy teenagers seeing who can supernaturally arouse each other most. Best game in history class). Daring somebody to get in a dangerous Push/Pull battle with a stupidly large mass. Daring feruchemist to tap too much Heat. Daring a Feruchemist to Tap an excessive amount of basically anything they've stored. Daring anyone to try Aluminum Acupuncture...

I think it's likely a combination of these two factors you both mention: even though a spherical planet is a known thing among the educated, there is a large enough education gap (perpetuated by the literacy issue) that the average person probably doesnt actual know (or care) about that fact. The next question I now want to ask if it's always been that way, or if at any time the Knowledge was commonly accepted enough to affect Shadesmar Topology, particularly around the time/generation of the Migration, when the topic of how different Worlds relate to each other was on everyone's mind.

Syl can use Full Lashings (Adhesion). It was one of her early preferred pranks, to stick things to each other, and that was before her mind had fully returned. I think this implies that at least some of the Sapient Spren will be able to use basic forms of their granted Surges. For example, I bet a Cultivationspren "Gardeners" could use "Growth" on a plant but maybe not ReGrowth which has a lot more cognitive and Spiritual components.

For me it's mostly a "Pay Me No Mind" when I want to lurk in a thread (and get notifications, etc) but dont have anything to contribute.

"Purpose" is kind of a strong word, Endowment's goals are both non-specific and inconsistent.

Haha, I know that sort of brain-roll, happy we could help!

Same, I had to stop and post my excitement before even getting to the rest of the chapter. But I dont think they are quite as advanced and/or complex as you indicate. I dont think they constitutes "the software to program and control fabrials..." as you said in the other thread, just that they can serve the role of the Timing elements in the computational machine. In other words, the logicspren isnt a whole computer, just the Clock circuit portion of it.

We know the Dor has limited emotional sentience, but I dont know of anything saying the Planet itself is awakening that way, and at least one that says the Land would not count as a Vessel. Could you point me to your source?

Id say, not necessarily, but for mundane reasons. Ivory is more like Pattern than Syl in that he cannot walk around freely to observe the way she and some of the other races can. He shrinks down to tiny size instead, which makes him hard to spot but also means he will have a more limited perspective to keep watch. There would have definitely still been a risk of Ivory spotting her swap, especially since she had no clue to look for him. But frankly, given that Ivory never spotted Pattern even though they likely were in the same room many times before the theft makes me think Ivory simply isnt very observant. He's not as flighty and/or distractible as Syl, but I could see him being the scholar stereotype that can fall into his own thoughts and miss thigns right in front of his face.

I live in North Carolina. Everyone thinks we completely loose our minds with a 1/4" of snow on the ground. They are correct. My daily commute goes past this place (and did so that very day!).

I cant really explain my thought process without explaining my working theory on the Oathpact, so here it goes: In OB they mentioned that some Voidspren tend to come in two flavors: "Some of Golden Light, others are Red Shadows". I think these are different "generations" of Voidspren, similar to how the oldest spren have 4 genders because they predate human influence dominance. We know per WOB the Oathpact is related to how Odium is ttrapped but not the whole thing. And we know the more Invested a Shard gets in a world, the more difficult and damaging it is to Leave. I think the Oathpact trapped the Fused and anything else with significant Odious Investiture, and that in turn constituted way more Investiture than he had wanted to use/sacrifice for two murders, which is why he's "trapped". Everything since has been him trying differnet methods to Win using the Smallest Investment possible, which is why he used Mortal Souls as raw materials for his army (Fused) and the implied raw material of "UnMade" rather than any more costly original Creation. So it was Corrupted Souls first, taking the least of his own Power. He made UnMade. Then over time he found various ways to Connect to and/or Corrupt Spren, for Forms of Power, etc. The longer the fighing went on, and more he Invested anything in Roshar, the more integrated he became in the Stormlight ecosystem. In the beginning his Investiture wasnt part of it so it manifested the Red that means "Corrupted" Investiture throughout the cosmere. Later on, there had been enough Void power used in the Desolation cycle that it was no longer a Pollution in the Stormlight water cycle, just another element of the new 'normal'. Hence the voidspren having a generational shift from Red Shadows to Golden Light". What are you referring to here? I looked back at that scene and I cant find any indication that he used voidlight for lashings, just the Honorblade and a sphere for stormlight.

Agreed, though I suspect that will ultimately be a matter of exposure/experience. For now it's the only known cache of that size, but other countries may have similar Breath-stores, to the point where a hypothetical version of the UN could give us a gathering of several God-Rulers. Even if they dont have specifically different abilities (enough to warrant declaiming a new Heightening), they might be discernable relative to each other, even to low-level senses. Im picturing aura's that fight for dominance int he meeting room, and people tracking their movements through the compound by the various beacons of powers shouting at everyone's senses.

Per WOB, not all shards have associated numbers. In the case of Endowment, Five is thematically recurring with Nalthis (five scholars, etc) but there havent been any actual magical examples of it yet. Personally, I dont think there is any actual limit to Heightenings/breaths, just a semi-linear (or exponential, etc) progression of Investments all the way up to Sliver, and eventually/potentially to actual Vessel.

Actually, the Perpendicularity is *technically* underwater in the Horneater Ocean(s). It's a green fluid layer found under the normal water, so that should, or at least could, be an Island in the Bead Sea, with a land-bridge if there are any decent-sized rivers flowing down the mountains. Maybe not. The spren need Stormlight to survive just like he does, and they are able to soak it up from the sky directly when the storm passes. Vasher may be able to do that too, on the Shadesmar side. Devil's advocate: Separate from the Time Budget issue, we know he's been to Roshar before, but we dont know what the Naltis side of that looks trip like. Odds are one or more of hte other Scholars came on that previous trip, and nothing to say that locating the Perpendicularity was something they were even involved in. We know they made the trip, learned Realmic things, and revolutionized Awakening after they returned. But discovering interesting new things on a research trip to the Amazon does not mean you also Discovered the New World. That could have been some entirely different, much earlier group, who may or may not have had the Dietary needs of a Returned.