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Braize. Hasnt even evolved Physical life yet... Roshar has pretty advanced scientific Fabrial magic, but Im not actually sure their basic science understanding is all that strong. They have a few basic Rules from the Heralds, but for the most part they dont understand them (they know to clean things, but not what germs are, etc). To be fair, the issue may be less about the knowledge and more about terrible public education leading to very silo'd knowledge held by a few.

The beads and flames dont rigidly co-terminate with their physical realm counterparts, so they could easily get shunted to the "surface" instead of appearing in solid ground. The bigger issue is that we know from human travel that Shadesmar feels no need to make itself habitable, so just like humans need to find work-arounds to get drinkable water, a fish might need shenanigans to get breathable water. On the other hand, there might be regional differences. For example, The Nexus Of Imagination corresponds to the "Southern Depths" ocean of Roshar, where no land-based people live, but sentient aquatic things like Santhids and Tai-Na (Greatshell Islands) might. In a region where the PR residents are entirely aquatic, Shadesmar might be different (ie an ocean atmosphere instead of humid air) above the same bead sea structure.

Also worth noting that Honor died long after the Heralds tried to run away from the Oathpact, which I suspect was itself driven by some of the Herald's developing personality inversion.

Tragically, I cant even claim that: I know Id seen the Aladdin/Pikachu episode before, but only today noticed that he was wearing the Radiant shirt. I can console myself that I did at least notice the Bridge 4 shirt more recently.

Wood is a far less efficient fuel than the charcoal you can make out of it, particularly at the BTU needs of steam power (or even simple forges). It has to do with all the additional lignin content and chemical moisture that can be released during the charcoal 'pre-burn', the Pyrolysis literally transforms it into a better fuel at minimal cost (since classically it can be done using the wood itself for the fuel by restricting the O2 flow (those Primative Technology youtube video's show some good example sof htis process). There is also the fundamental difference with what the Lord Ruler was Capable of when he was fiddling with things. Unlike the others, he never actually took up a Shard, just got his hands on a massive cache of Investiture lying around the Physical Realm. But literally every second he was working, his powers were dwindling to the point where he kept having to find new, weaker solutions to problems he might have blinked away a moment efore, had he known what he was doing. One second he is moving whole planets, and the next he's stuck with ash-clouds, then just with minor lifeform tweaks. That leaves a lot of room for accidental outcomes, or an example of "omnipotent" beings being able to make a Change that is not in their power to Change again. Harmony at least had the benefit of all that accumulated knowledge, but it was still largely mortal knowledge.

Fair enough. My main point is that there is nothing magic or unique about Coal that is required for Steel production to develop on a planet beyond being a really convenient and energy-dense heat source. And even though the initial step of smelting Pig Iron from Ore still remained, the Bessemer process did significantly cut down the total energy requirement to get large steel quantities, which is why it was such a driving factor in the Second Industrial Revolution. I think we're agreed on the general shape of things, and just see a different resource balance being struck on Scadrial. I think that the supernaturally lush basin (that Harmony acknowledged he may have made too easy for them) is likely to provide conveniently enough fuel for their available Metal resources, between land and ocean sources. Harmony crammed most of a hemisphere's worth of resources in easy reach of them, and their overall population is miniscule compared to its earth-era equivalent. Tangent: As Im saying this, I wondering how much Scadrial might drift from Earth-standard in these specific instances. For example, I would not be at all surprised to find that Ore deposits on Scadrial averages purer quality than the average deposits found on earth (which can vary widely); hell, I wouldnt be surprised if they didnt occasionally find depots of "naturally" occurring Allomantic Alloys dotted about. Im assuming that the planet will have ample supplies of all 16 metals, regardless of the natural ratios on earth. In a more On Topic sense, Im curious if all the amateur-hour restructuring that Scadrial has been subjected to, first by the Lord Ruler and then by Harmony, might have unnaturally replicated some of the much slower geologic processes that would create fossil fuels. And that's assuming they werent using some form of Time bubbles for their selective geologic manipulation, which might have more literally created the conditions needed.

Oh, ya, Im a big fan of them. Wren had a Radiant T-shirts on in like their second VFX React video when they got started. (Was literally watching it this morning).

The the industrial process that gave us our big Steel revolution (the Bessemer Process) doesnt actually require coal or Charcoal for the primary fuel, it uses an oxidation reaction with the impurities itself to generate most of the heat; that was it's whole big breakthrough that let us start using it as a bulk building material. "The Bessemer process allowed steel to be produced without fuel, using the impurities of the iron to create the necessary heat. This drastically reduced the costs of steel production." And technologically speaking, Scadrial's metalurgy has always been a bit ahead of their other technological developments.

Fair enough. Devils advocate side might be that Scadrial's idea of a "Coal Plant" is some sort of Charcoal manufacturing instead of mined fossil fuel, but admittedly that would not have been my first interpretation either.

I dunno, I definitely read it as Nale confirming it was a ReGRowth effect, one that only worked because he was healed in the window before his brain died. If he were using a Dawnshard, I think it would imply that a Dawnshard can simulate traditional surges, rather than actually requiring a Dawnshard to accomplish what happened to Szeth. Vasher did go on to describe a lesser version that more of a one-time second chance, rather than the immortality of Returned or Heralds. I think that's Szeth: an emergency injection of Regrowth was able to get him past the grey area between body death and brain death. His soul had already started to detach and move on causing the odd spirit detachment (taken right out of the Riddick franchise :)). For practical purposes I think he will grow and age and eventually die at all the normal rates, with no need for an Investiture source the way the Returned are confirmed to need, and Heralds and Fused are assumed to by Vasher. Past that it starts getting into the more philosophic and intentionally left vague (by WOB) question of whether the Spiritweb and Soul are different things, and whether Investure actually stalls the travel to Beyond vs leaving an Investiture shadow. But that's asking "What is a Soul?" before you get to asking "Does the Spiritweb Qualify." Vasher has definitely formed an opinion, one informed by his long tragic life as a Returned. But his is just on POV on this, which one of the Big Questions in the cosmere PS: Using the Quote tag function will make your post a lot easier to read.

Regarding Fossil Fuels on Scadrial, we have two WOBs on it. One says that most gasoline at least is biodiesel, but does not discount the possibility of Fossil Fuels. Another (from 2015) says "There are clues about this in the upcoming text itself". @Oltux72, you mentioned Coal mines in the text, do you recall when they were mentioned? As a more general note on the relative necessity of Fossil Fuels, they are some of the very best natural shortcuts we have, but in most practical cases there are decent alternatives (Bio-diesel, charcoal, Bioplastics, etc.) which are inferior but not prohibitively so. Outside of being one of better shortcut raw materials for industrial bulk chemicals, they mostly win by virtue of fuel Energy density, and Im quite confident the Metallic Arts will be able to blow anything natural out of the water, as is the point of the fantasy elements in any "-punk" genre.

More Statement than Title, but it's bordering on Linguistic Paradox, so I like it! 6/10

This is a key distinction. Elscalling can pinch realms enough to allow a person to transition between the Physical and Cognitive realms, but it does not provide all the functions of a true Shardic Perpendicularity, most notably it doesnt pierce the Spiritual Realm enough to provide a font of Stomrlight the way Dalinar's trick does.

Yes, or at least Rock thinks so, having seen him come through the perpendicularity. I suppose it's possible that the tale of said god has some other origin that Hoid himself, but I doubt it.

We dont know what it was, but we do know what she thought it was supposed to be: She thought she would no longer Age. She was wrong, and was very unhappy about it.

I like and agree, (though I hate having a #6 for purely thematic reasons). I think #4 should be something more along the lines of "ReAwakened Deceased Organism", given that the main real difference between that and #5 is the Raw Material Used. A complicated enough Command (and perhaps more Breaths) could likely approximate a Lifeless level of sapience, but if you do the exact same thing it with a realistic mannequin it would fall into either #3 or #5. The distinguishing characteristic of a #4-Lifeless is that they start with living remains (human, animal, etc).

So Logicspren are the Resonators / Clock elements of the Stormlight Circuitry. This is HUGE! That's the last big piece needed to make Fabrial based Universal Turing Machines, and by extension Fabrial Computers! Ill be back with more detailed thoughts after I finish Ch 15, but I really want to play with this new puzzle piece

It depends on the true realmic nature of the Boons/Curses, which we dont really know yet. I doubt Aluminum would work because I think it's a permanent/instant change like Healing or Soulcasting, not something continuous like Forgery. I doubt Spiritual Healing would work because I think it's a direct Spiritweb alteration more along the lines of Lerasium or the Nahel Bond that are not affected, rather a "Damage" to be corrected back to the previous Ideal. If it were the latter, I think Lift's Boon could be in danger once she starts viewing it as Wrong, though I suppose it would at least partially depend on her own perception (and the external Healer, if ReGrowth is used).

I dont think it has to end, it can just a linear (or whatever) relationship between Relative Temporal Likelihood and Investiture Cost, all teh way up to the shardic level where it morphs into straight-up reality revision

Fabrial signal hacking. If the Stormfather is the manifestation of a planetary weather system and the main Investitrure3 conduit for a trans-realmic Ecosystem, and the Nightwatcher can directly manipulate peoples Spiritwebs for all kinds of odd magic effects, it seems in-line for the Sibling to be able to perceive, manipulate, and/or Coopt the Connections involved in Conjoiner-based fabrials that are stretching across continents and/or Realms. Some sort of ability along those lines would explain their tie to the massively complex Urithiru systems, if those systems were intended to run independently with normal/lesser spren (as they're being done now) with the Sibling acting as an Overseer.

Hmm, I see where you're coming from. I should really go back and reread Emperors Soul and keep an eye on the edge interactions when forging. In the mean time, let me take another stab: the Investiture required for Forgery is a variable cost relative to how "Likely" something is, with relative likeliness being an objective and measurable thing in the Cosmere. I think a better way to describe what happens is that reality is going to revert using the least-energy path (the same way Physics likes to). So in the case of the Cat being crushed in a box, it would be a lot less energy (because of less total temporal changes required) to have the cat simple glitch next to the box than find some scenario where it got crammed in there (involving falling from orbit or something?). In the case of the table, Is it less total temporal change if somebody randomly set an apple on a plank on the floor, or if they let go of an apple at table height causing it to fall onto a plank? Hard to say without experience, but as a general rule I would think the route that lead to less lasting change/damage to adjacent objects is the safer bet. In the case of the Engagement Ring, reality is more likely to glitch into a timeline where she accepted the simple copper ring, or maybe sold the platinum and started wearing the copper, or if she's materialistic enough married and had kids with somebody that could afford the Expensive Ring. So I think my money is that the apple was placed in a whimsical place on the floor before the forgery could bruise the apple, the cat would next to the box rather than being crushed or historically underfed enough to fit in the box, and "the woman loves you for YOU and not for the Shiny things, Dummy" (Cue RomCom soundtrack). But I also think it is really going to come down to the relative Investiture cost of the Change in question, as determined by all the weird specifics of the craft that make it difficult and powerful, and also the actual Investiture available to the Forger.

That's what Im thinking. The idea being that Duralumin does not provide a new source of Investiture, it just Expands and/or Augments the existing channels of power so that you can pour more into a given working than otherwise would be possible.

Lets just say I strongly suspect there will be additional examples in the upcoming novel. Perhaps even in the first few chapters... But that wouldnt be something we can discuss here, were it to be the case. For Lightweaving, I would think the difference between lots of small/discrete Illusions and one large one could be measured by the size of the Gem it could be anchored to. She can change her garb in a small gem's worth of Stormlight, but if she wanted to hide an entire building it would use more Stormlight and so presumably require a larger anchor gem. For Soulcasting, each instance of the surge changes a single discrete Object, (ie one stone at a time, regardless of size). And we know that there is a maxiumum size a given Soulcaster can effect, and it takes skill and/or Savantism to affect only a piece of one. Size then could be measured by how large of a single object you could effect.

I think we do, simply because they all have had access to infinite stormlight before and still show limits to how much they can channel in one go. Separately, in the case of Lashing specifically, they can do multiple lashings (which it seems the Fused cannot), and they can do partial lashings, but I think the max they can cram into a single one is the objects own mass/weight. But it takes a certain amount of effort to create each one, making it impractical to slap dozens or hundreds on a single object (as often comes up in extreme surge ballistic conversations). That's correct, but it's confirmed to still work for Surgebinding. Per WOB Duralumin does not add increased the power, it just makes it all happen at more or less the same time. We know that when you Burn a metal, the metal is annihilated and is used to create a temporary Connection to Preservation, tuned by the type of metal for a specific Effect. I believe Duralumin's power is simply to Expand and Reinforce Connections. Since WOB has confirmed that it would affect Surgebinding, I suspect it does the same thing to the Nahel bond (or the lesser bond of the Honorblades & Squires) and essentially gives them a temporarily increased Bond efficiency as if they had progressed to a higher Ideal than they actually have.

Im going to say No, because everythign we've seen implies the Forgery effect doesnt extend past the stamped Object itself. You scratch off the Stamp, the ring just changes back to copper, with everyone remembering the full, factual history of the enchantment. Same way you can Stamp skills into yourself, but external things you make with those skills dont blink out of existence when the stamp expires. Im less certain on what would happen to the children if you Soul-forged a sterile person to be fertile, though I suspect the timeline reversion would just replace your involvement with a fate-approved "likely" replacement.