DreamEternal

Maxal: lets just say that I disagree with many things you said in your post and take for granted to be true and right. I believe many don't understand how one can be shaped by their culture or how hard it is to resist when said culture isolates itself and labels all who disagree as evil. I believe there is no such a thing as someone who does not deserve a second chance, if it is possible to offer it without risking more lifes. I don't hold "punishment" as sacred, and the very idea of someone deserving suffering because that person caused suffering sickens me. In his warped mind, the universe itself was holding a gun over his head, unfortunately most seem unable to accept that he was forced to believe that by his people. He could have been one of the most moral characters of SA if he wasn't made a truthless. He has the potential for good and the wush to do good, and that is enough to make his position tragic. And, before leaving this discussion to rest, I must say that from a deterministic viewpoint we are all what the universe made us to be. If I hate Szeth, then I hate a victim, because his nature hates the evil he became. And I refuse to hate a victim. Now, please don't reply to this. We already derailed the thread too much. EDIT: Also, don't take this as me trying to argue against your points, as much as stating how my beliefs differ from most and how it affects how I see Szeth.

Szeth... I like him, and agree that "tragic villain" is truly the best way to describe him. He was raised in an isolationist, cult-like society that is most likely a distopia hiding beneath the skin of a land of eternal peace. Everyone he knew during his whole life probably told him to not trust stonewalkers, to listen to everything the Stone Shamans say and always, always obey. Then, for one reason we do not know why he discovered something. Something big. Something that hinted at things that could never have been true. So he came to the Shamans, and asked for answers, asked them to dismiss his fears that everything he believed was falling apart, or to give him a new truth to live for. Instead, they branded him a Truthless, and he complied, for the Stone Shamans do not lie. Who was he to question? Who was anyone to question? He was just another shin, another mindless slave to his beliefs, just like the Shamanate wanted. Szeth's tale is one of a man whose greatest virtues are turned against him by an unfair world, and while I don't think or want his sins to ever be fully forgotten, and for him to be friends with the heroes, I still think he may be a force of good one day, if he ever breaks free from Nin and abandons his quest for vengeance. PS: two of tee things that help me liking him are that I generaly prefer to see villains as also being victims whenever possible and tend to avoid hating anything or anyone. EDIT: On Kaladin: Truth to be told, I am a bit burned out from his arc. It was very good while it lasted, and Lirin is my favorite SA character, but after the family reunion I think it would be better for Kaladin to leave the spotlight for characters who need it more, since most of his remaining possible plot-lines after Hearthstone wont be as deeply personal. Plus, it will add a cyclical feel to his main arc, which is nothing new, but adds a heroic air to his story, and Kaladin is the most archetypal "hero" character we have.

I won't spoil, but lets say that Shadows of Self touches some of these points briefily. And on Nalthis, I am not sure what you want, since it is the shardworld where magic is the most commonplace of the ones we have seem.

Nothing. It is just that... Becoming a theorybinder involves a bond to a theoretical spren, does it not?I am a natural loner, and felt unsure if it was worth it. But most spren seem to respect the boundaries of their humans. EDIT: Bonrel?

I dunno, most orders can be equaly awesome. Especialy if Kaladin did that shockwave trick with Adhesion. Also, Edgedancers, Windrunners and Stonewards could be a very useful combined force when voidbringers attack civilians, since the Edgedancers could dance between the enemy and trap them with instant vines while healing the wounded, while the windrunners lash crumbling buildings in place and clear debris, and the Stonewards raise walls around the area.Plus, I may have a headcanon that Dalinar could use Adhesion and Tension to condense stormlight into a extremely dense fluid with great surface tension to form a whip-like blade of pure liquid investiture. Rust, I am derailing this, aren't I? Well, returning to the dustbringers, I can see why they would generaly fight as far from populated areas as possible, if I understand their surges right. In my mind, Division would break the atomic bonds of solid matter to generate heat, in pratice turning what the surgebinder touches into molten dust. Combined with Abrasion, they could easily cover large areas with half-molten rock and so much dust it would be impossible to breath. The possibilities of hurting one's allies are so great I can see why they had such a bad rep. The Skybreaker use of division would be more like crashing through walls like a storming meteor if it works this way. Good for breaking into fortified locations or taking down stoneclasts, but more like a directed missle than a carpet bombing.

Thank you for the compliment, Maxal. Truth to be told, most of what I wrote was mere repetition of what you explained much more fluently before, in other threads. Actualy, you was the one who convinced me to accept the "Adolin as an Edgedancer" theory. I myself was convinced he would remain sprenless forever before discovering that theory.

I have returned, and wish to be a theoryweaver. EDIT: Changed my mind. Full theoryweaver.

I am bad at finding WoBs, but there is one and Hoid did tell Shallan the things she was facing weren't fully natural.BTW, did you notice that in one of Elhokar's especially paranoid moments in WoK his eyes get described in a very similar way to how Lin's eyes get described in the chapter Helaran appears? I currently believe Radiants can drive away voidspren influencing people near them, but Shallan wasn't strong enough to save her father before it was too late, while the sudden influx of Radiants prevented Elhokar from going from "terrible king" to "terrifying king".

Even then, all Adolin did by following the codes felt more like not wanting to contradict his father he respects so much than any sense of duty. Plus, is Adolin really any braver than Dalinar, who made himself the laughting stock of the nation because of his honor, or Shallan, who killed her father to save her family, or Kaladin, the eternal rebel? No, he is just an insecure young man who failed every romantic relationship he started, can't form deep friendships, worships his father above all else, and most of all, does not want to see his family fall apart. Adolin may be a shardbearer champion and fourth in line for the throne of Alethkar, but deep down he is just a normal guy who wants everyone to be happy. He may have killed Sadeas, but it was an irrational impulse of a man who is tired, angry, wounded and hears from a man who almost killed his family that he would strike again. Now, what motivates Adolin? What would make him a Radiant? Perhaps we should look at the small good things that he does and thinks, since not everyone needs to have one defining moment of moral solidity. He cares about others. He does not want others to suffer. He was the one who felt how pointless were the deaths caused by the chasmfiend hunt, not Dalinar. He was the one who saved the whore at Sadeas' warcamp. He was the one who remembered the names of the soldiers killed by Sadeas' trap. He keeps a trinket from his dead mother, not Renarin. He talks to his Blade(which used to be an Edgedancer spren) and refuses to name it, almost as he knew its true nature subcounciously. He imprisioned himself in protest after Elhokar had Kaladin arrested. He cares when others forget. That is why I believe he will be an Edgedancer.

Adolin is cool, but what?

I think she doens't consider TLR as an allomance because her subcouncious mind still sees him as something above mortals. Also, in terms of raw power Vin is surely above Kelsier, so it is more likely a matter of skill, which Rashek either lacked or didn't bother using.

As far as we know, other shards could influence an hemalurgic construct, but only Ruin and Preservation have a direct backdoor to their mind. It would be more like soothing or rioting, or how Odium influenced Lin Davar. Another point: "Taln" seems convinced he is Taln, so I don't think it is a kandra

It isn't about the glorification of slaughter. I doubt any Radiant would be proud of killing defenselesd parshendi as they sung. It is about letting it shake him to the point he was unable to fight until there came the opportunity of a fair battle instead of a butchery, when that butchery was necessary. The way I see it, dustbringers first do their duty, them feel bad about it when they have time.EDIT: unless you theorize the Releasers were hated so much because they sympathised with the parshendi. Now that would make them very interesting

Maybe... But apparently there is a stormlight cycle, and according to WoB Lift can just bipass it and turn matter into stormlight directly, so it is not so useless: if you make her imortal and give her a thousand years maybe Roshar will get even more invested.

I remember that someone asked Brandon if the windspren who sometimes flew around Kaladin where a precursor to shardplate, and he said that was a very smart question, so the theory it is made from many lesser spren connected to the order is very strong right now.

Adolin does not thirst for battle, he just wants to have a normal, healthy family that is not the laughing stock of Alethkar. Which in the twisted standarts of the aleti elite means going to war. The very possibility of deposing his father was against his goal of saving his family.In the final battle, after he loses the Thrill, he is horrified by how he was slaughtering defenseless parshendi, even if it was necessary. While I doubt any radiant would be happy with that task, could a member of an order as feared as the releasers drop his blade in disgust at his own actions in the middle of a storming battle for the fate of the world?

True, it is rare to find a well written depressed character, especially one with a natural tendency towards depression, which can be felt even before all goes to Braize for him, and after things get better. For some of us, even when depression doens't take hold of us it still hangs as a shadow, like a thin layer of cold water above the ground always flowing against us, making it harder to move. It is like your happiness fades faster, and when you look at tomorrow you only see failure, so why care? It will go wrong anyway.

One of the cons of using Breaths is that, according to WoB, they decay slowly with time, so you would need replacements like a much less hungry Returned without shapeshifting. And there is an implicit age limit to atium compounding if you don't hack the system on a more advanced level, since you will need to comsume more and more power to maintain the same age as time goes.

Szeth isn't as much of a swordsman as he is an improviser, though. Most of his deadliness comes from his creative use of lashings inside cluttered buildings and his skill in unarmed combat when he can kill most oponents with a touch. While he is most likely a better fighter than Kaladin and probably could defeat Adolin in shardless combat, Dalinar is likely to defeat him without magic, and he certainly isn't up there with Vasher, Arsteel and Denth. Of course, in a powers allowed, all versus all melee, I'd bet on him. EDIT: As long as it is in a interior space with plenty of objects to lash. A windrunner proper like Kaladin would probably defeat him in open air, since his ability to adapt to fast changes of direction and creative lashings would matter less than raw stormlight efficience and healing.

Not enough to pay for the gemstones, that is for sure.

I think it is foreshadowing the nature of the dawnsingers. I, personaly, believe theyr were parshendi using forms if power from Honor and Cultivation instead of Odium. There is also the fact that both voidbringers and dawnsingers were popularly believed to be types of powerful spren, and the dawnsingers existed before the voidbringers, when the parshendi songs say they turned to their gods after the betrayal of spren, but it is not impossible to blend the powers of both peoples.

She is not a swordswoman.

I wouldn't say immune. Remember Vin could feel TLR's super soothing from very far while burning cooper and Kelsier couldn't until his final scene, when he was closer? Cooper can add some resistence, but that is it.

To have duels you only need officers with weapons and some hours of free time. To have hunts, you need officers with weapons who can reliably take a day off in the middle of a war, plus something worth hunting. Also, I wouldn't be so hard on Dalinar. He isn't a very... flexible fellow when he puts an idea in his head. He probably just accepted what the Codes told and didn't truly made the connections. Perhaps that is where Renarin got his inability to accept becoming a scholar from?

Nalan's hand! Edit: also, Kelek's Breath, and my favorite of all: Palih's Mind!