The One Who Connects

The ability to do that is a sign of Breath, not of any particular Heightening. Warbreaker Spoilers(about the magic, not the story)

Old Chap named Wistiow. Essentially, a contract(his surgery patient's will) was made without witnesses to back it up, so it became a "your word against mine" situation. As the one who got money out of the situation, Lirin became suspicious.

Have a WoB about that @Stark. We actually knew what Kaladin's name meant already, but we didn't know what part of the name neat what, so we did learn something new.

These theories were from before Oathbringer came out, so if new info contradicts them, that's why. Guess we put too much faith in Pattern's implied wording with "the one you call Stormfather lived."

To quote Chaos from the other time:

He's talking about the Makam Wood, not the aluminum. The Soulcasters are relics of ancient times though, remember? They haven't managed to replicate them, which is why they are so tightly controlled. Whatever they put their resources into has gotten them nowhere beyond perhaps making the Essences Chart. Actually, for the purpose of using wood, does the sap serve any purpose? (I'm not an expert on the subject, as you might've guessed) If it doesn't serve any purpose, then I'd imagine a Soulcaster "specialized" for lumber would try to make wood without it if possible. (I can chalk this point up to Soulcasters being too limited to do so, so it's not a crucial distinction)

I don't have OB yet, so it's not like I've got knowledge you don't. But yea, sure. If there's a definitive shutdown to one of the discussion points in OB, by all means bring it up. But I was gonna pick up my little sister from school in a bit anyway, so tabling the discussion is fine with me. I didn't ask about the Surges so much as the word "Surge" itself. There's a distinction between utilizing "the power of Illumination" and utilizing "the Surge of Illumination." The former implies that Illumination is the actual name for the power, rather than the given name. The latter implies the same about "Surge," which in my mind is a more important distinction. These are fundamental forces(kinda). Calling it the Force of Gravitation sounds fine. So I wonder where "Surge" came from. On mobile, bullet point indents are more noticeable. On pc, it looks too much like a textwall for my tastes.

Just edit the post that started the topic, and you should be able to fix the title.

Ah. I originally thought you were implying that the First ideal was less open to differing interpretations than the other Ideals. Which I would have disagreed with given the ideals we currently knew at that point. Now that I see what you're trying to say.. I like that idea, but still feel like we'll need to see more about the Orders before I'm fully on board. And now I'm confused again. Teft's Description is noted. The Ishar bit from Nohadon's WoK is noted. What happened in Dalinar's Visions? Oh right, Nohadon himself. I've just perused the vision with Nohadon, and there's some... interesting things that we on the forums never seem to talk about... Don't know how relevant any of this will be, but this is what stuck out. "[ceiling] carved from the rock in geometric patterns that looked faintly familiar. Circles connected by lines, spreading outward from one another..." Perhaps not the KR symbol, since Dalinar recognizes that shortly thereafter later. Also, we're in Kholinar. What happened to this building? Nohadon's "crown" appears to be thread woven into his hair, something I never picked up on before. His crown comes together into the symbol of the Knight's Radiant, although how that was done is beyond my ability to visualize. It reminds me of the crowns Vedel and Jezrien bear in their endpaper artwork, with the symbols of their respective orders on them. I'm curious about both the in-world and real-life inspirations for that design decision. "They say that each time is the same. We are never ready for the Desolations." So.. this is at least the Third Desolation? (His plurality strikes me as "greater than two," but I'm not sure why) The Ideals do not appear to be around at the time of Nohadon's Desolation. If they are, they are much less strict than they appear to be now, as Alakavish shows. Also, "Surgebinder." Potential implications about the timeline of when "Radiant" became the chosen title. Why Surgebinder though? The origins of this term seem important. (Have any Nahel Spren used the word "Surge" before?) "I don't know if we can force them[Surgebinders] to do anything." Proof that the KR saw themselves as above the law? Nohadon uses the phrase "Nahel Bond" more than once. Who else has used this phrase before? "Perhaps our abilities are proof of a divine election." Is this implying that Nohadon and Karm were Surgebinders? "When the Heralds next return, [..] will they find a people who have forgotten them yet again?" Curious... our timelines place the Desolations around 4 centuries apart, and they've forgotten the Heralds already. It's been 4 millennia now and the Heralds are remembered, if not recognized. What changed? "If we continue as we have, then perhaps we deserve to lose." Cheery chap. You sure he wrote such a positive book? Famed historical figures were given holy names by the church. Makes sense, but presumably he wrote tWoK before the Church gave him that holy name. What name might the book's author be listed as? Perhaps that's a question for Brandon. "There are princes, kings, Soulcasters, Surgebinders. We never lack men and women who wish to lead." Soulcasters deciding they were qualified to lead? This is.. interesting, especially during the time of Surgebinders, making the Soulcasters less unique. "Man of letters." Scribe(verb) exists back then, so I feel Scribe(profession) should be in use too. "He hadn't heard the Highstorm approaching. [.....] The voice that often spoke in his visions did not come." Suspicious, Convenient, or Other? I really wish this was more organized. Doesn't look too bad on a phone screen, but on a proper monitor...

Unless it got revealed during Oathbringer, we don't know when that happened. All we know is that it was almost certainly after the Recreance. The Recreance was 2 millennia or so ago. That's a large span of time. The most common belief is that it coincided with the Recreance, but there are various theories that all reached this conclusion separately. Per my memory, The Recreance was the last of Honor's Vision's to Dalinar before the one he explicitly stated was a projection of a possible future. It stands to reason that the Recreance was the last event of any consequence that Honor witnessed. That'd put it between the Recreance and the Hierocracy, ie between 700 and 2,300 years ago. There's a theory going around that Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow merging with the Stormfather is what allowed the Stormfather to survive the Recreance. Built around Pattern's statement that "The Stormfather survived" when talking about the Recreance. That'd put Honor's splintering very close to the Recreance. It's been theorized that the KR abandoning(or all the Spren of Honor dying) may have weakened Honor in some way, allowing Odium to strike. This one has the most holes in it, but it is one of the older theories. Timeline would be close to the Recreance, so that Honor wouldn't have time to recover. A new one going around involves the Shattered Plains being shattered as a result of Honor's splintering, and the plains happened long enough ago that Vorin myth says it happened during Aharietiam itself. I have my doubts about this one, but it's here for completeness. Timeline would be around the Recreance(Stormseat has been gone a long time) I personally feel that Tanavast fell not too long after the Recreance. If you had to pin me down on why, I'd lean towards Interpretation 1, with a hint of 2, and some less related reasons. The "recent" interpretation is very new, and the person who brought it up (Brightlord Maelstrom?) is the first that I've seen to talk about it on here

This I agree with. It just felt.. off, earlier, which is why I brought it up. Grain exists, but soulcast grain felt distinct enough for me to call it different. I'd have to reread to see if I'm over-complicating, but now you know where I was coming from. I disagree with this. Soulcast food doesn't revert to it's "natural state," so to speak. Jeez this WoB is text heavy... It lacks flavor, which is different from normal. I'm not even sure I'd view the natural state of "wood" to include sap. Natural state of a tree, sure. But wood on it's own?

On a theoretical level, that's doable. Eye color is based on the level of melanin pigment in your irises, and there are ways to stimulate the body to produce more. However, I have no idea how to translate that into eyedrops, or how to make the process less gradual. So yea, it'll take some explaining. For research purposes, when are these even used in Stormlight? (I almost forgot they existed)

Good to know. Bother. That answer also looks like information we already had, which is.. interesting. It turns out I'm half-right about that. We already knew Odium didn't create the life on Roshar, but we didn't know about H&C. (It's paraphrased too, so take it with a grain of salt)

Given that this is the second time "access to Fortune" has come up, and IIRC, the first one being a shard idea got shut down hard by Brandon, I'm inclined to think this is the same. Fortune is a Spiritual Atttribute, like Connection and Identity, to name a couple. Feruchemical Chromium stores Fortune, Hoid's "know where to be sense" is rooted in the underlying principle that F-Chromium works on. I imagine that the implication here is the same. This would be little different from say.. a Scadrian learning to speak Alethi and you'd go: "You did all this without access to Connection? That's amazing!"

Soulcasting is mass-conservative in most circumstances. Make implications of that as you wish. Is Brandon contradicting himself here, or has the Coppermind made the assumption that Makam Wood comes from trees? After reviewing the relevant passages, I think the Coppermind assumed without proof, given the nearby usage of "log" and "plank." There are several other trees that are used for furniture, including a few that grow around the Shattered Plains, so I imagine that those are the logs in question. A real world Lumberyard would handle all kinds of wood it came across, wouldn't it? I do find it odd that a soulcast wood would have a name assigned to it that isn't just "wood" or "lumber." Soulcast grain is just called "grain," no? The wood even smells of sap, which(to my knowledge) isn't used in sanding down wood for smoothness. Edit, forgot my point: Soulcast grain has no flavor. Why would soulcast wood retain sap/a sap-like smell?

Is that a quote from Teft? (I've no clue who said that, but that sounds like him.) I'll link any useful things from some past threads once I find them. (Might take a while, that discussion topic is an old one) You might be the first to say something to that effect, and you've piqued my curiosity. Care to elaborate on this?

"Humans and parshmen don't have a common ancestor. And as a side note, both of these strains of humanoids predate the ascension of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium." He mentions both Humans and Parshmen as before the Shards ascended. The Shards ascension was at the Shattering. So.... Ah, now I see what your saying. It doesn't specify Roshar. That's my bad for using the wrong WoB. This WoB does specify Roshar, so have that instead.

Given your usage of that entry, I am forced to assume you are talking about the Oaths.(more on this at the bottom) The Oaths are Order Specific. It's like ten different business with entirely different rules being part of the same corporation. The common ground between them feels thin. (I could cast parallels to the UN, but I know better than to get political) It's also fun looking back at that quote, since Ishar didn't need to "understand" anything. The events preceding Nohadon's Desolation and the ensuing carnage laid it out for him quite plainly. He[Dalinar] talks with a man with a regal bearing, who Dalinar later realizes must be a younger Nohadon, writer of The Way of Kings. A Desolation has just ended, and 90% of the people Nohadon ruled are dead. Some of those still alive try to cast blame on the Surgebinder Alakavish , who began a war just before the Desolation started. As the man said "Alas, not all Spren are as discerning as Honorspren." On the subject of what Ishar did. I'm a little more.. uncertain that the Oaths are because of him than I was a while back. I'm putting the whole thing in a spoiler tag so it doesn't derail the discussion as much.

I've gotten too used to the words "corporation" and "business." My first thought when I see company is gonna be the military term, and then correct myself as context allows(which it didn't this time, since we were talking about a preemptive strike before) Fingers are connected to each other via the hand. I guess I just see the KR as more separate than that. For instance, your hands are connected to each other too, but a few steps removed (hands, arms, chest). It gets even more removed when you move to people, since they aren't physically connected. Everyone in the world is connected in some way (be it same city, same country, same planet, etc..), but it all depends on how far back that common ground goes. In lieu of a physical connection, it should go to other connections. Multiple departments of the same business are still bound by the same business rules, but the First Ideal is more malleable than that. Multiple platoons are part of the same company with the same commander, but the KR Orders feel less unified than that. I just can't find the proper common ground to start working from.

In the CR, Spren are physical enough to be spiked. Spoiler for Size I'm also aware that he said that Spren don't reproduce biologically, not that they can't. However, Brandon following that up with "As such, the term half-spren is basically meaningless." should be clear enough.

You'll be unhappy.

From the Coppermind: "Raids and assassinations were commonplace, and this later created norms as to how assassinations should have been carried out. These disparate listener tribes eventually unified and moved near the Shattered Plains." That last phrase is where I got what I said from. It appears to be less accurate than I had thought. Unfortunate, but not surprising. Coppermind has been trying to update with the influx of new information for ages, so it's still a bit of a mess. It's of little consequence, as that was just additional details, rather than evidence against your theory. From a linguistic perspective, he should be saying that they've found Voidspren before, as they are mentioned closer to the "found before" line. If he were referring to the Listeners in the third statement, he should mention their name again. I'll admit that I'd entirely forgotten Nalan said that, and originally I dismissed it as an excuse(There's no law against lying in casual conversations, so it'd be allowed). However, I have this WoB... and well, the possibility opens up. (I also realized that he called them Listeners. I guess Parshendi is an Modern Alethi Word...) Keep it on the table if you wish, but I really don't think a Nahel Bond is enough to expand someone's lifespan to two millennia. A couple hundred extra years, maybe, but a couple thousand? I don't buy it. Like every theory about the motivations behind the Recreance, we're gonna get into subjective territory. Assuming you were using company as the military term, I see the Orders as separate companies. This wouldn't a part of your company crossing lines you aren't willing to, this is a different company entirely crossing those lines. You'd still disapprove, but would that weigh just as heavily on your conscience as it would had it been part of your own company?

"They can hold it better. It’s not permanent." From the same WoB, that's mostly an environmental thing that was around before her arrival. I agree that the recycle time is rather short, but that's not something her or Honor did.

Either you linked the wrong Interview or I glossed over it, but I don't see anything implying this in the provided link. We know Humans on Roshar also predate the Shattering, so I'm curious where they could have come from way back when if they aren't native. If not Yolen, then where?

Now I don't know if you're being serious. [Implications from Edgedancer]