Pathfinder

And again I will have to very much disagree regarding Amaram But at the end of the day I guess RAFO till we get Jasnah's book with her flashbacks. I think we will learn the most about their shared history then.

I completely agree. I love that the weapons can be leveled up separately and add even more customization. Lol, yeah I already have potential builds all over the place. I think I am still going to go for the black eagles, but the other classes look great too!

So there seems to be a few misunderstandings regarding my intentions so hopefully I can clarify below What I meant was while the coinshots are in the copper cloud, hiding their allomancy, the seekers would be unable to pin point where the coinshots are. Vin also was especially strong due to her spike, so that is why she could pierce copper clouds. Finally I believe you are referring to Marsh, not Moash. In Alloy of Law, Wax mentions coinshots are among the most common type of allomancer. Yes, it is particularly among criminals, but that does not change overall they are the most common. Crashers are twinborn, and are exceedingly rare. Quote below: Alloy of Law page 210 He was used to dealing with Coinshots - they were one of the most common types of Allomancer, particularly among criminals. Feruchemists were far more rare. The telegraph is a very limited means of communication, especially on battlefields. They require a station to be wired connecting to where they are receiving. Then a messenger would have to run to the front lines. Radio on the other hand was the revolutionary technology Wax discovered that his Uncle was using. That would be incredibly important in war. The german Blitzkrieg relied entirely upon it. Literally meaning "lightning war", the german tanks would have radios in contact with planes. The tank divisions would advance quickly. Anytime they ran into anti-tank weaponry or resistance, the individual tanks would radio in to the air support to bomb the emplacements. They hit hard, and fast and overwhelmed their enemies. All because of radio coordination. Now to break down the rest of your response. My strike team isn't meant to be a concerted attack. It is a guerrilla haring attack meant to take out an objective and flee. Brandon has said himself the mistings/mistborn were built more as assassins and frequently employed as such. We see as much during the Siege of Luthadel. An oracle only deals with their personal future, so unless a coinshot is in range and shoots them while they are burning, the oracle will not help in this scenario. A battlefield is miles of distance and coinshots can cover a lot of ground very quickly, so personally I do not feel the copper cloud would be problematic as by the time the seeker's own pulse is muted by the copper cloud, the coinshots are already in range to fire. I will give you that the lurcher would notice metal on the coinshots though that could be countered with the coinshots having swallowed all the metal they intend to use, and keep a backup pill in their mouths to swallow when needed. As per Brandon hiding metal in the mouth is a common allomancer trick to evade detection. Wax's Uncle Edwarn does exactly that, and Wax only notices it because he is under the effects of the Bands at the time. The seeker only senses the allomancer themselves. Not the metal shot. Btw, correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the point of this thread was to discuss ways we could see allomancers being employed during a war. I didn't know this was going to be a counter thing back and forth. I came up with a tactic I could see being employed. Nothing in war is perfect nor full proof. The idea is to come up with something your enemy won't expect to gain an advantage. After that the tactic will lose effectiveness and another tactic will need to be employed. Is this thread a war game where we are actively trying to work against each other's armies, or is it coming up with ideas on how you think they could be used? Because personally I thought it was the latter instead of the former. All excellent points Well it seems that the airships can fly out of range of coinshots and lurchers. Wax and crew flew over Uncle Edwarn's expedition, and Edwarn had a whole host of allomancers in tow yet they were unable to attack it. Wax was only able to pull down the larger airship because as I mentioned earlier, he had the bands at that point.

Interesting tidbit, originally Wayne was the primary protagonist and Wax didn't exist. Brandon felt Wayne by himself didn't work, so he came up with Wax, and then Wax ended up being the primary protagonist.

Could you clarify? From what I understand of seeking, when an allomancer burns their metal, a "ripple" beats out, centered on the allomancer. A seeker senses this ripple. A copper cloud hides this ripple. So during the seeker would not sense any ripples coming from the enemy allomancers. By the time the copper cloud obscures the enemy seeker, the coinshots would be within range to fire. In this example it is a small force for a guerilla attack.

Don't need to keep track of everyone in the army. The way Wax described it, is if he knew people were going to be shooting at him, he could do a general strong push in that direction, sending the bullets back at the shooters. Actually I am in the process of re-reading Alloy of Law currently, so I have an example. At the wedding Wax mentions to himself about doing exactly that, though in Wax's case he was concerned that innocent bystanders who were mixed in with the shooters might get hit by accident. Basically the coinshot is not expecting pinpoint accuracy when sending the bullets back. The goal is to disperse the bullets, and send enough flying back that you might take out a person or two. As to the aluminum cases, could you explain because I am confused. What is the aluminum case for and how is it used by a lurcher to destabilize a coinshot? To clarify, this is how I envisioned things at first. So you have a base perimeter right? And at that perimeter you have a seeker burning bronze, to sense pulses coming from the battlefield to warn regarding incoming allomancers. The crew of coinshots fly in low with the copper cloud. Flare goes up to blind the tineyes. Fly in closer. Seekers cannot sense where the allomancy is coming from, so cannot direct the commanders to the source of the breach. Coinshots approach. By the time the seeker notices they cannot sense their own pulses, the coinshots are flying in, and are in shooting range of the seekers. Perimeter Range of Seeker Range of Tineye Approaching Coinshot Team | S T C (coinshots begin flying in low) | S T C (coinshots fire flares towards Tineyes) | S C T (coinshots are in Tineye range, but tineyes are disorientated) | C S T (coinshots are within seeker range undetected due to copper cloud, having trouble locating breach) | C S T (Tineye by this point have recovered, but coinshots are in range, unloading on target. coinshots then flee, shooting off another flare in their retreat) Spook went as far as covering his eyes with cloth and he still felt blinded by the sun, though that is in the case of a savant. Ranette mentions firing a gun with loud rounds around a tineye is enough to overwhelm them. The idea with the flare is you are just outside their sight range. You fire the flares arcing towards them disorientating them briefly. The example I am giving is regarding hitting hard and fast and getting out. The idea is the prevent the enemy from knowing where you are hitting, and how so you have enough time to do as much damage as possible and get out before they can organize a suitable defense. So yes the flare announces you are attacking, but the enemy does not know where to focus their defenses. The intent is not for a perfect stealth mission without detection. If I wanted to do that, I would accomplish that differently.

Admittedly metalborn are relatively rare, but Wax comments on how coinshots are among the most common, and they are common enough that they are regularly used as couriers. In order to kill 30 coinshots that punched a hole in your defenses, you would need to use either aluminum (which at this point in the narrative is very rare and obscenely expensive) or non-metallic weapons. Crossbows don't have much range. If you are firing guns at them, you run the risk of those weapons being turned against you. Wax comments on as long as he knows bullets are going to be fired he can push them back towards the shooter, even without his steel bubble. A lurcher yanking on a coinshot needs an anchor as well, and if the coinshot functions like a mistborn (metals in tear away bags), then there is nothing for the lurcher to lurch. Seekers would detect them yes, though a copper cloud has a large range (from what we see of Clubs, they are able to hide a whole building worth rather easily). A pair of coinshots could carry a copper cloud between them and that would be enough to mask the whole platoon. A seeker and a tineye would be common means of guarding area, though an attacking force could shoot up flares blinding the tineyes, while the copper clouds hide them from the seekers. Come in low and fast, hit hard, and then retreat.

The residents of the Terris Village are pacifists if I recall correctly. That was the big conflict between Wax and his Terris heritage.

No problem. Personally I considered that Steris helped avoid a war from breaking out, though tensions will still be present. Just when you said may or may not, I did not know if you had a different opinion. I think due to both sides having something the other side wants, would accelerate the exchange of technology, but that just comes down to personal interpretation. Unless there is any historian on this site that is an expert in advancing technologies. So if you do not think it will be as prevalent by then, your interpretation is just as valid. As to my own projection, I mentioned already what I could see coming up. Weight manipulation, heat manipulation, steel pushing, iron pulling, tin sense, pewter durability, gold healing, steel speed, bronze detection, copper concealment, rioting and soothing all being used via medallions and in vehicles/gadgets I think would massively change the face of war on Scadrial.

Personally I disagree, but more that it just doesn't feel right for myself rather than anything I could truly put forward to dispute your statements. I wish you luck with your theory! Well we do know a radiant wielding an honorblade of the same order would get a small degree of compounding, but it wouldn't be anything big. WoB, supports that. The person asked regarding Kaladin having the windrunner honorblade. As to Jezerin's honorblade, Moash uses it to float up in the air at the end when it is given to him, and that is after he killed Jezereh, so I believe yes it still works. AS to the rest, no idea lol.

Lol, Parshendi gemhearts are small and milky white. Though it was commented on that they used to be harvested for their gemhearts as well before that knowledge was lost.

I believe that is the prevailing theory, but I am not sure if it has been confirmed or not.

I don't think this is exactly derailing as it is comparing Amaram and Dr.Strange as to whether they are "alternate villains" but if the OP would like us to, I have no problem respect their wish. I will follow up though that This is where we disagree. I do not think there has to be some kind of greater good for him to take the actions he takes. You can feel there is, but based on the information in the book there doesn't have to be. Dr. Strange said he was willing to if it came to that. That is the first difference. Dr. Strange would protect the time gem, and do his best to keep it away from Thanos. He did not actively try to kill Tony and Peter in order to protect the stone. If he had to choose between protecting the stone and someone else actively killing Tony and Peter he would choose the stone over them. But Dr. Strange is not actively creating a scenario where Tony and Peter would end up dying because of the stone whereas the scenario would have not existed prior without him. Thanos is creating that scenario. Not Dr. Strange. Amaram is actively choosing to bring about a scenario where people will die due to his actions, in order to accomplish his goals. Further once Dr. Strange realizes what he must do to save all life, he does it. What he doesn't do is I spoilered that because of the reference to what Amaram did. edit: to put it another way. Dr. Strange is dealing with a scenario created by an outside individual or entity and is trying to mitigate that. Amaram is actively creating said scenario. edit 2: V from V for Vendetta is an alternative villain. It isn't shown too much in the movie but in the comics, V blows up those buildings when they are very much in use by the general population. He doesn't get them evacuated, nor warn anyone. So there are very much innocent people in those buildings getting killed. We just view V as a hero because he happens to extol our same set of values, but he is very much a terrorist murdering innocent people.

Ehhhhh, I am sorry but in that case I think you are stretching things a bit. Even if we were to look at Amaram as altruistically as possible, he is still operating on flawed information that is revealed to be false. Dr.Strange conversely looked at countless alternative timelines, and found only one where Thanos is defeated, and the population of the universe is preserved. In that circumstance the needs of the many out weight the needs of the few and he has proof from the time gem. Amaram has a belief in texts that have been altered and changed over the centuries by the very religion he believes in. By the way, could you point to me to a scene where Amaram actually states he is concerned for people's souls? Because the only mention I saw was his desire to make the Church more of a world power. You can certainly personally equate that by people in the book following that religion, their soul is saved by going to that religion's after-life, but I do not recall him ever stating that was his goal. I also do not recall that being stated as a tenet of that religion. Could you point that out to me? Regardless it still goes back to the fact that Amaram is wrong, and all those people that have died, and are going to die because of the desolation, are going to die for nothing because his religion is false. So whereas Dr.Strange sacrificed a confirmed number of people (at their own choice, as Natalia and so on chose to be involved), in order to bring back and preserve another confirmed number, Amaram sacrificed an unknown number of people without their say, ultimately for nothing. Actually as I write this, I feel Amaram has more in common with Thanos, than Dr. Strange. Thanos felt killing a certain number of people against their will would be to the ultimate benefit of all. Turns out this was incorrect. Life actually ended up worse. He then reasons it is because they know what they lost, so he was then going to make them be happy with what he did. Ultimately removing their personal choice completely. edit: I would also say Dr.Strange's plan was nobler as he knew he would be sacrificing himself by being among those snapped and would have to depend on the time stone being right, for him to come back at all. So Dr. Strange would have far more to lose if he was wrong, (his life) while Amaram would not.

Could you edit the beginning, as the example you gave was : Now I readily admit this is an assumption on my part, but that implied to me you were referring to the Southerners vs the Notherners that was barely avoided due to Steris's handling (which is why I thought you included the "may or may not have"). If that was not your intention, then of course we are entitled to disagree on the time line of technological exchange, but I feel given the number of existent metalborn in the North versus the lack of such in the South, coupled with the technological advances the medallions offer would result in a rapid exchange. Some enterprising Southerners not wanting to have to wait around for the firefathers and mothers to fill medallions when there is an untapped population to the North to take advantage of I think would be among just a few reasons it would get jump started. Another is the anger the outlying towns and cities had about the rail and canal system taxing all goods because they have to go through Elendel first. They tried to get rails connecting them, and were blocked, but how can you rationalize that now when you could have airships that don't require any defined rail or river? The airships alone will dramatically change the landscape in short order. In my opinion at least. But at the end of the day, this is your thread, so if your parameters exclude the southerners, then I have no problem abiding by that. I only explained because you asked.

I love the designs on the classes, and the attack animations. I may be greedy but I kind of hope this isn't all the classes. For example that as you advance through the story, more classes open up and can be seen in that screen saver. The main reason, is I really want a beast class. I am hopeful that the theory going around that the crest beasts are people who experimented with the crests and got turned into monsters. That depending on the house we pick, we may run into characters from other houses transformed and potentially recruit it trying to help them gain control over the transformation. The way one of the monsters roared in one of the gameplay videos makes me think it might be right. Sounds like a voice is underneath the monstrous overlay. Seeing how the monsters look epic, and potentially each crest would have its own monstrous forms, I think that would be amazing! Speaking of crests, they have been releasing what the crests do in tidbits. Sylvain's crest gives him a chance to have an extra attack. They don't say what the activation chance is, but I am already picturing giving him gauntlets for possibly 3 attacks! lol.

The point I was making at least is ok illumination coupled with transformation lets you take photographic memories. Then taking that example, what would be the resonance for illumination and regrowth? Creating new memories? Putting memories in other people? What about illusion and transformation would cause someone to say "hey that must be photographic memories then!" excluding anything else before it was revealed? In hindsight it makes sense, but I have no idea how based on that information we could possibly theorize on what the others are before they are ultimately revealed/confirmed. What would transformation and transportation be? Some theorize geolocation, but that is based on one instance at the end of Words of Radiance because Jasnah knows where the nearest town is. If that is correct, then in hindsight it makes sense, because an Elsecaller would need to know where they want to go, but if not for that scene, what other information could help us narrow it down? Same thing for cohesion and transportation, cohesion and tension, gravitation and division, division and abrasion, abrasion and progression. I think there is a theory that Lift's resonance is being able to understand anyone (as in where they are coming from and identify with them, like what she did with Nale). If that is true, how do we get that from abrasion and progression? People metaphorically rub off on you (abrasion), and you grow your understanding of them (progression)?

No problem. To re-iterate, the reason I brought it up was not a "ah ha! this shows the condensed stormlight theory doesn't work!" moment. It was more of a "hey, I know there is a theory that says such and such. Reading this WoB made me think this is an important distinction. How does it effect the theory?". So is it like: 1. That is easily explained within the condensed stormlight theory. It is blah blah 2. Hmmmm, not really sure why that is. It is something to think on 3. Ah, that caused me to think of the theory in a new light, and now I have even more to add to the theory 4. Doesn't change a single thing, has no bearing upon it whatsoever. @Bigmikey357 thought it doesn't change anything, which is totally fine. I was curious everyone's thoughts. But again, brought this up not as an "the condensed stormlight theory is wrong, because of this WoB". I was more wondering if it affects anything, and if so, how so in everyone's opinion. Just thought that comment about destroying shardplate might mean something. Hopefully that clarified things.

Are medallions and vehicles using them included? Because if they are, then there is a whole host of other things to account for. Submarines using gasper feruchemy for air. The whole airforce that the southerners have with ettmetal bombs. Field surgeons with gold medallions to heal the wounded and send them right back out to the front lines. Coinshot rail guns and mortar emplacements. Siege weapons that can be easily and quickly moved via weight feruchemy.

You might be, and I could totally be off base, be confusing that with the scene with Mraize, where Shallan sees him impersonating a guard of Ialai. They step to the side and talk. Admittedly it has nothing to do with her personalities, but it does take place in Urithiru, and relatively early in the book. So maybe?

Although I agreed it is possible that soothing could cause ripples in the cognitive realm, soothing and rioting just deadens or enflames emotions. It is not mind control. So I am not sure how that would stop Battar from doing what I proposed. So this WoB implies it, but the second one (which is hard to find, and for some reason the link does not work for me, so I pasted it, as well as linked the thread) is the "smoking gun". AhoyMatey (paraphrased) Are larkin and lanceryn one and the same? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) There’s a little bit more than just [being] one and the same, but in some ways they are. Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014) Larkin and lanceryn 1. In WoK, Jasnah's mention of this lanceryn befuddled me a lot. We know that it is a kind of greatshell with gemhearts native to Aimia, but except this, we know nothing. The translator interpreted it as "lance-beast". I suspect he got it inspired because "lanceryn" is similar to "lance", which is a kind of weapon. I'd like to know whether this name origins from "lance" or not. If not, could you simply describe how this creature actually looks like, so I can come up with a new term? (I'm not sure if the former translator has ever contacted you.) 2. So larkins are more like flying insects? I imagine they are a mixture of crab (or any crustacean), wasp and little dragon. Is that okay? (Do larkins really have reddish/brown crusts?) Peter The lanceryn and larkin are two names for the same creature. When it says lanceryn, it’s definitely referring only to the enormous greatshell version that is believed to be extinct. The name is not related to “lance”…I think. The small larkin can be considered the cremling/larva version of the lanceryn.

Well the reason I brought it up is my understanding of the condensed stormlight theory is that the radiant condenses the stormlight into plate/solid that is invested. If a soulcaster soulcasted that plate into steel instead, shouldn't the metal just change from "shardplate" metal, into "steel" metal, locking the stormlight/investiture away from use? The WoB says it would destroy it. So it sounded like the result would be different. At least that was my reading of it. edit: for example, people are invested. Obviously much less than shardplate, yet if they are soulcasted, they retain their form (assuming you don't choose fire or smoke, etc), while Brandon says twice soulcasting would destroy the plate. I dunno, maybe I am reading too much into things, but I feel it is of note.

Ah, thank you. I understand your position better now. Well guess just gotta wait for Calderis's response.

I thought you were a proponent of @Calderis theory that shardplate is condensed stormlight? I have thoughts on why the WoB would work within the lesser spren theory, but as I said, my intention was not to disprove the condensed stormlight theory. Just try to understand if there was something about it that accounted for that WoB. edit: I tagged him so he could ring in.

So just had a thought I wanted to ask you regarding your theory. Now to be clear, I am not asking this in an attempt to disprove your theory. I am genuinely curious as to your answer regarding resolving this question within your theory. So here it is. I was re-reading a WoB from Brandon regarding a soulcaster being able to soulcast shardplate, and that by doing so, the plate would be destroyed. If shardplate is made of condensed stormlight, why would soulcasting destroy it? Another WoB states by soulcasting a metal mind to a different metal, the investiture would still be present, just it would be inaccessible. While with shardplate he states it would be destroyed. So if shardplate is made of condensed stormlight (investiture) why would it be destroyed? Both WoB below: Questioner Can you Soulcast an Invested object? Brandon Sanderson Yes, but it's much harder. But humans are Invested, and you can soulcast humans. Questioner So, suppose you had a goldmind that was filled. And you tried to Soulcast into iron. What would happen to the Investiture inside it? Brandon Sanderson So, the Investiture would remain in there, but it's keyed to the wrong thing, so you wouldn't be able to get it. It'd be much harder to Soulcast that, by the way. The more Invested, the harder it is. But Soulcasters are used to it, because everything has Investiture, and most of what they're Soulcasting. They deal with this, so it's something they're kind of expert at. So, this is not outside reason, that it could happen. You could give it to your average Soulcaster on Roshar, and they could make it happen. You just wouldn't be able to get the Investiture out of it anymore. Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016) Questioner Can Shardplate be Soulcast? Brandon Sanderson Shardplate could be Soulcast, but anything Invested is very difficult to Soulcast and it would essentially destroy it. Which would be one of the few ways to destroy Shardplate. Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)