Pathfinder

Also I would like to add that you cannot force someone into taking an honorable action. The sheer act of forcing them is making it coerced and not honorable.

I thought it was stated he jumps forward in time?

If it is me as myself, and not in the book (so in other words I don't die like Ati and Aona lol), then I think Devotion. Would you rather gain immortality like an Elantian, but over a certain amount of time become "tired" like elantians become, and seek the pool to "die". Or have another power system, but only be able to jump forward in time and not have any other means of immortality.

This was discussed in another thread. I ended up quoting scenes where Sazed tapping steel and strength saved Vin from Inquisitors. Through quoting the scene, it is shown that the Inquisitor was burning bronze at the time to locate Vin. So had the Inquisitor at the time known how to locate feruchemists with bronze, then he would have known Sazed was coming and stop him. So it is my belief that Inquisitors at the time of the final empire did not know how to find feruchemists with bronze. Perhaps when Ruin took them over he showed them how to/did it for them, so they could find and spike the Synod, but while under the Lord Ruler I believe they did not know.

So two things to this. First we see Ham walking around in just a vest, shirtless while it is snowing, yet he shows no ill effects. Not only that, but he has done so on numerous occasions for long lengths of time. So no, a pewter burner would not suffer for hypothermia. Secondly, that wouldn't be an issue to begin with because as stated per Sanderson, bronze ferrings are insulated against the extreme use of their own power. So although they can be burned by fire, they can raise their body heat far above what would normally kill a human being. Same stands in reverse. So if anything you proved that the mistborn wouldn't be shivering while storing and also wouldn't even need to burn pewter to be ok during it. 1. I agree 2. without Vin having access to medallions like in my example, then I agree, for reasons I will bring up regarding the alluminum armor. The way I see it, is Tony has two ways of targeting/finding Vin. Heat signature and locking on. Heat signature can be countered with the bronze storing as I explained above. Lock on can be thrown off with a bendalloy bubble. This can still be countered however as I will mention in a later response. Thank you for both compliments So assuming it was possible to make an aluminum composite armor that would hold up to blows (using a composition that Landis brought up below, thanks btw!), I feel that would counter her steel pushes and iron pulls directly on him. She could still shoot pieces of metal at him with regular pushes and pulls and duralumin pushes and pulls, but that would then depend on how durable that aluminum composite is. Having aluminum armor and weapons would negate atium I believe. So aluminum darts would not be affected by passing through a bendalloy bubble, however the targeting system trying to aim at her would. So basically from outside the bubble, it is a blur and would be a guess on his part where to shoot, while from within the bubble she would see the trajectory of the darts to move out of their way. Which is why we get to an aluminum shrapnel grenade. That can be shot with air pressure too, just it would reduce the range. But basically Vin puts up bendalloy bubble, toss in aluminum shrapnel grenade and it doesn't matter where she is in the bubble, she still gets hit. Magnets to pull on her metals might be a problem as aluminum itself is not magnetic. Putting it in a strong enough magnetic field will make it slightly, but from what I know, it would be very difficult to either make an electromagnet without the overheating issue, or a natural magnetic field with aluminum. Aluminum mesh nets could potentially catch her as they would cover a large field and she couldn't push it off. Hmmm trying to think what else. OH! Toss out every so often little speakers with strobe lights. That way Vin can no longer use Tin to locate Tony as the loud noises and bright lights would blind and deafen her, while Tony could have noise canceling in his helmet and hear fine. The aluminum suit blocks emotional allomancy. So yeah I think that covers everything. Now you see why I feel letting Tony build a mistborn killing specific armor would be unfair if Vin wasn't allowed to do anything to counter it? Without the medallions, and Tony with this armor, even with the limitations to weapons and flight, he would still neuter her. She would have to have something to compensate to make it a fair fight. Since Tony in metal armor makes the fight unfair in Vin's favor, so you give Tony aluminum armor to try and balance it, then Vin needs something so the fight isn't then unfair in Tony's favor. But don't get me wrong, I know your post was just in an effort to only figure out what Tony could do to counter Vin, and what I wrote above is at least how I would go about it assuming I had access to such resources lol. Thanks for the info for possible alloys for the armor! Shame Sanderson never hinted or included information on how the bullets or guns were alloyed to know how much aluminum you need to still be effective against allomancy.

So here is a question I am still genuinely confused about regarding your theory. If I understand you correctly you are saying that since Adonalsium could have shattered a different way, that there were already other different types of intents within in in addition to the ones we know. So where you lose me, is what happened to those intents? Are you saying there were countless mini intents, that when the shattering happened, they merged into 16 seperate piece intents that were the product of those merged mini intents (so pulling random names out of my butt courage, honesty, integrity became honor?)? And that if it happened another time, then those mini intents would have formed up into a different 16 separate pieces? Because if not, what happened to all those other intents when the shattering happened? They couldn't have just disappeared.

Lol not necessarily. A lot is my own theories based on info in the prose version. Unfortunately cannot I explain what I mean because of the forum rules. However if you read the prose edition and want to check out that forum, please do! Everything I came up with is there. ps: really trying to hold to the forum rules with my response. Not trying to skirt them, so hopefully I have not done anything to break them.

I gotcha lol Actually I think is does count. It comes from the same power source, Preservation. Tony's various armors all use the same power source, the arc reactor. In order to produce an aluminum alloy that is resistant to allomancy, but still able to provide tensile strength, durability, and not hamper any of the on board systems including weaponry, flight, and circuitry would require building a brand new armor. Same thing with weaponry. By providing Tony the capability to tailor his armor specifically to fight and kill a mistborn is tipping it far in his favor. The mistborn would have no way of compensating. It literally cannot alter its own powers it was born with to counter Tony's. Which is why I suggested the medallions. Without compounding, and allowing a selection of powers, the mistborn would have a finite resource to counter Tony, while his armor never runs out of aluminum, and lasers. I see that as perfectly balanced. Every instance we have seen where metal pierces the skin enough to not be pushed on was either spikes driven through the body, bracers that pierced deeply the meat of the arm and was used by an individual that could heal, a knife in the arm of another individual that could heal, or earrings that half of the metal material is inside the skin. The Iron Man suit would have to become an Iron Maiden to accomplish that lol Picture this for round 2/round 3. Iron Man flying around in broken down city, aluminum armor in sustained low flight so as not to overhead and slag his jets with his Aluminum pneumatic darts and shrapnel aluminum grenades. Mistborn is dodging and jumping between buildings, shivering from storing all their heat into the bronze medallion to avoid coming up on Iron Man's infrared. Battles are sudden, and violent, with both quickly retreating to recoup. Tony trying to repair what damage done, and avoid calling in new replacements too soon as to give away his position. Mistborn digging the aluminum darts out of his or her body as cannot be healed around it. Steadily burning pewter to shrug off the pain for now and save the gold from the medallion for something worse. Both then begin to hunt once again. Come on and tell me that kind of fight doesn't sound awesome?

Lol if Iron Man gets the bleeding edge armor, then Vin gets to channel the mists, because by your own statements that is absurdly overpowered. We might as well next say who will win, a Mistborn or Superman? Then as I said, if Tony can have the time and resources to build an entire new armor and weapons to specifically counter all of a Mistborn's abilities, then the mistborn should have access to medallions to counter Iron Man's and level the playing field.

Would you rather be a mistborn with all the allomantic powers but only be able to have those powers (no hemalurgy, medallions, or feruchemy), or have access to every medallion to every power (both allomantic and feruchemical) but only be able to use one at a time? (so no compounding)

Basically you are both saying the same thing: aluminum - allomancy cannot affect it, but can be burned for an effect silver - allomancy can affect it, but cannot be burned for an effect

True but also we are relatively certain (unless new news came up that I do not know), that all the honorblades are still on Roshar. Dead Sprenblades could hypthetically be stolen and taken off world by a world hopper, but I still feel if that was the case we would have seen something more. Other than Nightblood that is lol. edit: I know Nightblood is not a dead-spren blade, just he is the closest we have seen to either honorblade or spren blade that was on a planet other than Roshar.

Unfortunately the title is Vin vs Iron Man, though I agree it would be fairer to have it as a general mistborn if we are keeping it as you said to MCU. To the OP, are we limiting it to the MCU?

Regarding the medallions, very true but basically she would be as limited as Iron Man. So for instance if he was allowed to change his armor to aluminum to counter her, then she hypothetically could chose a bronze medallion which would enable her to store her body heat so she wouldn't come up on his sensors. Another would be weight to let her actually be able to push or pull on him. And finally another idea off the top of my head, some gold. Since Tony can repair his suit, Vin should have some means of healing herself. It would be a finite amount so if she healed a grievous wound, she would run out of healing for the rest of the match. That way she is able to respond to his abilities without being broken. Also compounding would obviously be out. I may give you the coins bouncing off, but given the tensile strength indicated with the armors that he wore that were made of non metallic materials, they still were pretty vulnerable. So I think coins could still penetrate, but I will give you that much. However we see constantly where all sorts of power levels (from Thor, to Captain America, to ordinary humans), get hit by repulsors and just get either knocked back (Thor and Captain America) or knocked unconscious (ordinary humans). I keep bringing up Captain America because as I said, the super soldier serum only brought him to the peak physical condition of a human being, and left him up there. So he never tires, his muscles never wear out, etc, but he is still human. He isn't punching holes through tanks. So I feel he is the perfect analogue for a pewter burning mistborn. That is exactly how pewter functions. It brings your body to its peak, and holds you there. Just in a pewter burners case, they can "burn" out lol. So if Captain America can take a blast and keep going, then surely Vin can too. True, but it is never mentioned how it is alloyed. Could be a majority of aluminum which would still make it brittle or easily melted when used as armor or to house laser weapons. Alloying metal to hold together long enough for the ballistic explosion to send it at high speeds into someone is an entirely different matter from turning it into plates that are supposed to deflect or absorb damage.

That was answered by Jondesu. Wax killing criminals knows he is stopping "bad people". Serial killers think they are "doing the right thing". Only Szeth kills countless people, but also condemns himself for their deaths. As I pointed out, Brandon said anyone in the entire cosmere could have gone through what Szeth went through. If it had to be the result of an honorblade, then he would have said as much. Otherwise assuming that anyone in the cosmere would end up with an honorblade or a dead spren blade and kill tons of people is a stretch. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No. Your question was directly about the screams and Szeth. If the honorblade was a requirement in what was occurring, especially off planet, it would have needed to come up in the discussion. It did not. I think that is a pretty clear sign the two are unrelated. Again, honorblades are functionally different than dead-spren blades. In addition is all I stated above. Cats and Dogs have a common ancestor but that is no reason to believe the ancestor is going to act like a cat or a dog in your home. edit: also consider this. If the dead spren/ honorblade was the cause, then when the recreance occured, you had countless people with shardblades, but with no idea how to get shardplate to work. Shardblades need a gemstone to bond, but you can still very much carry and swing it around. Shardplate however needs gem stones to run at all. Without stormlight it is dead weight that you cannot move in. It wasn't till later that they learned how to power the plate and bond the blade. So what occurred during all that time where people were swinging shardblades around without shardplate? Did they all go nuts like Szeth? They most certainly took a lot of lives. That very scene has them all fighting over the blades and killing each other. So it was happening from the word go.

Eshonai explains how "The Rider of the Storms" which is the Stormfather betrayed them. The implication is the betrayal is due to the spren abandoning the parshendi in favor of the humans because of something the spren get out of the deal. That implication is that the spren gain sapience.

But it was his devotion to the law that resulted in him killing all those people.

A. Pewter/F. Steel Twinborn. Don't need to hulk out, but the increased durability, strength, healing and speed sound mighty nice lol. Would you rather live on Patji from Sixth of Dusk, or Hell from Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell?

Ah now I understand. Well excellent find and again congrats!

Not to diminish your accomplishment, but hasn't Tor started re-releasing the Alcatraz books with new covers? You should be able to get them from amazon easily now. But if you wanted to get that particular cover, then congrats!

Lol by their very use they were dodged "Rhodey, duck". Also again, pushing on the glove when he lifts his arm would screw up the aim, and then she could duck, jump or dodge over the beam. Finally if it was in his aluminum armor, the metal would melt, destroying his hand inside. edit: also take into account they were drones that were slow and easily out maneuvered. Which is the total opposite of Vin lol.

Makes sense, otherwise there would be a lot of insane asylums across the cosmere lol.

poke, you forgot to ask a question lol

Although I do not think that is the case, I really like the imagery and love the theory in how you stated it, upvote

Ok so catch up time! lol Personally I think throwing the hulkbuster (I assume you mean from the movie as there were two versions in the comic books, one to fight captain america and ms marvel, and the other to actually fight the hulk) is a bit overkill, but if you want to include it, then I think Vin definitely needs Atium. Also take into account there are only two or so times Tony in the comic books wore something non-metallic. One of those instances was carbon fiber which was commented how it was weaker than his normal armor due to its composition and it was made specifically to fight Magneto and was never used again. I feel the same would stand for aluminum armor. You are not going to get the same tensile strength you would from other metals/alloys. Yes there is space grade or aeronautical aluminum, but again that is more for its lightweight properties than its durability and capability of taking damage. Basically I am saying you make the hulkbuster of aluminum, and Vin could probably punch a hole through it with pewter. Also as mentioned in the comics and movies, is due to the composition, his weaponry then gets limited. There is a reason missiles, lasers, and so on are made of the materials they are made of and housed in. Change that, and he could very well end up blowing up from his own weaponry. For instance the stealth armor used against Black Panther and Magneto due to lacking any metal could only use his repulsor blasts three shots at full power. As I type this, not to criticize your decisions, but if Stark is allowed to create a whole new armor to battle Vin, specifically in response to her abilities, then she should be able to use medallions to counter his abilities. Otherwise you are stacking the deck in favor of Iron Man as anyone who knows someone's abilities, and has time to counter those specific abilities, will win period (Prime example batman vs superman. Superman cannot change his powers. Batman on the other hand, can and did find Superman's prime weakness. That doesn't mean Batman won. It just means he was able to exploit a piece of information). A balancing factor I believe if you still want to do this, is reference specific armor mentioned in the comic books, like the one I brought up. It was already shown in a story line, and has defined abilities and limitations that we can reference. Or have them have full knowledge of each other, but keep the same abilities. Vin without atium, and Tony in his standard armor. Then Vin gets a comparable amount of metal reserves. If Iron Man can be repaired and get new parts, then Vin should have a resupply of metal. It would only be fair. The tricks I referenced have nothing to do with pitting Vin's weight against Stark. It is pitting Stark's against his own. So its like this. If Stark stands in full armor at point A, and Vin stands at point B, and only pushes on Stark, then yes she will be thrown back. However, what I stated was using Stark as the anchor. So pull on his arm while pushing on his chest. Now do you see how his own weight in that case wouldn't matter? She has an anchor, that just so happens to be him. Missiles function via pressure (ie contact), or range. Now short range, carpet bombing would work, though it would also harm Stark. But that was not your example. Your example is Tony far far far faaaaarrrrrr away from Vin so she cannot reach him via steel and iron. But that means she has plenty of time to watch the missiles coming, and once they come within range, make a general push out in all directions. That would either set them all off, or fling them right back towards Tony. Never in the comic books nor movies has Tony developed heat seeking lasers. Every time he has used his repulsors/lasers, he has been in close proximity. So lasers can be dodged and as they have mass will deflect when hitting a bendalloy bubble. And before you state that a laser is light, and by definition you cannot move faster than light, the weapons that employ lasers for Stark are fictional, and are shown to act in a manner where it has to travel from source to target in a clearly identifiable way. In the comics and in the movies such weaponry has been dodged. If we are saying to apply real science to Stark's armor's, then the whole suit could not function at all. edit: apparently aeronautical grade aluminum is actually an aluminum alloy, so I am not even sure it would function like aluminum for the purpose of being immune to allomancy. Duralumin is an aluminum alloy for instance but does not give you the same shielding properties. edit 2: Well also instead of criticizing (which was not my intension, so just wanted to say sorry) the rules laid down by the OP, this is how I see things playing out based on what was stated: round 1: Vin would win, for the earlier stated reasons. She can manipulate Tony like a puppet while she dismantles him round 2: It would be harder, but Vin would know his power core is in his chest, so she could target that and as aluminum is weaker than the standard armors, could penetrate it. That would make repairs for other parts pointless as the power supply is down round 3: Hard but I feel atium and again targeting that power core would ultimately lead Vin to win the day.