Pathfinder

I need to re read the preceding chapter, but I vaguely recall it was Kenton referring to being able to confront Drile and have that same presence and strength of character to not give in. To take command. That the comment about nurturing sand mastery is that he has the additional strength but being used to only one ribbon for so long, he forgets, and does not have the skill to use his new additional abilities yet. However this is all from memory while you provided a clear example from the graphic novel which is pretty strong evidence, so I will need to check tonight and get back to you. Great catch!

Oooooo unfortunately I have a lot of issues with how the graphic novel portrays a lot of the aspects of the novel. Sand mastery is a main one. The other thing about sand mastery in the graphic novel that bothers me is how there are a bunch of scenes where all you see is a sand master hold out his hand, it glows around his hand, and then the enemy pops some blood and dies. Doesn't show any streak of sand extending from the sand master, or any other indication of attack. Just hand, glowy, death. Praxton's death blow doesn't look like how I envisioned it from the prose at alllllllll.

Maybe I am being stubborn but I still interpret that as to say skycolors could be lichen based like dayside magic. Taldain's magic isn't "viewed" as magic because it is part of the world's very ecology. Sand masters don't view their mastery as magic as evidenced by Kenton's reaction to Khriss asking him about magic. Khriss doesn't view skycolors as magic as every darksider has them. But for us I would say it is magic, and it is derived from investiture. But that is my own theory. True, though again from what I recall of both mediums, we never see a trail of black sand around a sand master till they stop mastering. Basically I am in complete agreement with you that either there is a finite amount of investiture in the sand, or it is cycling in new sand, just the problem is I have not see any evidence for either in either medium. The only thing I can think of is that maybe because the sand master is still in the sun while he is doing it that it is continually channeling that investiture from the sun's radiance. Kind of like a chain reaction that if you keep feeding it, you can maintain it almost indefinitely, but if temporarily stop the reaction, you have to start from scratch. Then if the sand master was on another planet with white sand, he or she would have to watch his or her water levels as well as the investiture amount in the sand as there wouldn't be the sun to charge/fuel it while mastering.

The only thing is, we never see the sand run out of investiture before the sand master runs out of water. Every time the sand master has to forcibly stop mastering, is because of dehydration. Anytime, regardless of the length of mastery, sand is mastered it turns black. There is no gradation. The only gradation is the point in which it is being recharged. If the sand has been mastered it is black. If it has been mastered 2 hours ago, it is grayish. However, if you master sand for 1 minute, you get black sand. If you master sand for 1 hour, you get black sand. So although intuitively I agree, there is a finite charge in the sand from the sun, I have not seen this limit anywhere in the graphic novel nor prose, so am unsure if such limit actually exists.

Also regarding stormlight healing you to be "immortal" I believe (but do not have the quotes to absolutely state with certainty), is like with feruchemical gold. Your spiritual self knows how old you "should be", so despite constantly healing your body, you will age, and you will die. That is why the Lord Ruler needed his atium trick. Other forms of immortality use different methods. One is hoping into the future in bursts. Another is the Elantrians, though eventually they can get tired of being immortal and "die" in the pool.

No worries, I appreciate you explaining, at least in your perspective what that term means. Based on your definition, my personal opinion is the lichen. From my research out of curiosity, the organism seems the perfect type to exist on both sides.

Lol ask a Rosharian if highstorms are magical and they would look at you like you are one of the ten fools. Conversely, tell them that the Almighty is just a normal guy that ages ago picked up a shard of power and isn't actually their God as in with the big G, and they will call you a heretic. Terming things magic or not is perspective. Sun that recharges sand regardless the time frame is magic to us. It is part of the ecology to Taldain. Don't get me wrong, we will totally RAFO, and I don't want my posts to take away from discussion about your theory. Just for me, the newsletter makes me believe otherwise. Thanks for referencing the moments. To expand on this, what about those moments are similar, or special to make them key moments to the face in the sky? Is it as Kenton is taking on the mantle of responsibility? Is it to check on the status of the sand masters to see if they will continue as a cohesive group? Or is it that it just feels these moments might lead to something greater later on? Can you tell me what is the official accepted definition for focus on the forums, and maybe explain it a bit? I have tried to keep up with those threads and half the time I get lost, so i am leery about using such terminology.

Could you explain what you feel makes you arise to that conclusion? From what I read, they cut down the level of explanation, and trimmed it to speed it along, but I think that was just poor story telling on the part of the comic book artists. Not that the whole mechanic changed. Kenton overmastered during the attack. By the time he reached the hall of justice, he had it back. Same happened in the prose.

Lol see I would respond, but I am seen whole threads, pages and pages long discussing what the definition of focus is, and what it is regarding the magics we already know about. So honestly specifying that terminology is beyond me lol. I am just going along the lines that Brandon said water powers the magic, and the sun recharges the sand. So I take that to mean the sun is feeding the lichen investiture, and the sandmaster is providing the water so the lichen can convert the investiture into "food" for its life cycle. The by product of this interaction is that sand masters can move the sand with their minds. The lichen benefit because they continue to live and reproduce. So I take it as the metals are the gateway for the investiture to flow through. So the sun is the investiture, the lichen is the gateway, and the water maintains the reaction. As long as you have metal in your system to maintain the gateway, investiture flows. As long as you have water to maintain that gateway, the investiture flows. I think an interesting question by extension is if a sand master was given water intravenously continually while mastering, could he maintain it indefinitely? Or would the lichen wear out and the sand still drop?

No, he specifically states the sun recharges the sand. If you refer to the newsletter, he writes that in parenthesis. Personally I am still a proponent of reflected sunlight via the moon for darkside, but again I do like your theory, and it makes very good points. I would like it to be the atmosphere, and it does solve a lot of issues, but the fact that he literally states that it is the sun that recharges the sand, still leaves me in the camp that it is the sun. What makes me want to re-read white sand however, is to try and figure out why those faces are popping up at the moments they do. it makes me very curious of their significance.

I personally think it is the same face, but from different angles, which makes it appear slightly different. I do really like your theory about the atmosphere, and if it wasn't for the newsletter making me feel differently, I would be right on board. upvote!

A lot of what people have been suggesting that Lightweavers could do with altering waves coincides with a lot of what we see are the abilities of the other orders. What if all of the orders can manipulate waves, and just each order has their specific manifestation of said manipulation?

There is WoB that feruchemical zinc also allows for "intuitive leaps". Now that does not mean you are going to ace a mathematical test when you don't understand the formula at all, but it would give you an edge. I think the issue is getting overcomplicated. When taking tests certain tests, we do not let the students use calculators (except in certain situations), and the use of cell phones are prohibited. In some cases cell phones are confiscated, as they would pretty much function as a coppermind. So if in the real world we prohibit cell phones as cheating, why wouldn't the same stand for copperminds and zincminds? Especially when all you have to do is run someone through a metal detector (since the modern trilogy was brought up). Then assuming ett metal constructs that can use allomancy, just have a bronze detector running during a test. The electric metal detectors catch the metal minds, and the bronze detectors catch allomancy. Test is then taken normally.

There is no mention of darkside lichen in the prose version. Everything I wrote about darkside lichen is either my own theory, or a WoB which can be discussed. Is there something you read about it I missed? If so, please PM because I would be interested in know

Double post to reply to kingsdaughter. Why can't there be a different breed of lichen that likes UV rays on darkside and functions differently as result? Why does dayside have to be the only ones with the monopoly on lichen and why does this lichen only be allowed to have one form?

So to be clear, in the newsletter, Brandon said that the magic is powered by the water inside a person's body. The planet is tidely locked, and the sun never sets. He then goes on to say that in fact the sun recharges the sand's power. The connection is sunlight recharges the sand, a person gives water to the sand (which has microscopic lichen like substance living on it which gives the sand its white color), which gives the water to the lichen, which fuels its magical life cycle, which in turn releases the power that lets them control the sand. There is a WoB that the lichen feed on investiture. He literally states the sun recharges it. That implies to me it comes from the sun. The water is the metal, not the sun. The sun is like the mist. Now although I am still leaning towards the sun myself, based on the newsletter, I do like the idea that it is the atmosphere filled with investiture, and the sunlight just "delivers" it. This would also slightly be supported as in another thread, a poster noticed that there is a face in the clouds on 3 or 4 separate occasions in the graphic novel. But as I said, the newsletter itself is pretty big evidence that it is the sun. I am curious to see all the evidence that claims it is not the sun. Also keep in mind, the mists are not the well. Highstorms are not the well. So what makes you all think that the well and investiture delivery system have to be in the exact same place?

Just because native Darksiders do not view the Skycolors as magic, does not mean it isn't magic. Khriss says daysiders have magic, to which Kenton scoffs at. It isn't till later when she mentions sand mastery as the magic that she is referring to that he begins to avoid her questions. So for the sand masters, sand mastery isn't magic. To everyone else it is dangerous, something to be awe of, or something to revile, but to the users itself, not magic. It sounds like all darksiders have skycolors. So why would they view what everyone can do naturally as magic? It would be like saying our ability to clot our blood on a certain level of injury, close the wound, and then a scab falls away to reveal healed skin is magical. There is nothing saying that Darksiders don't have access to investiture. By the sheer nature that we know out of world that their skycolors are un-natural/magical means something is going on. Finally Brandon has said Taldain's investiture is tied into the ecology. Just because one side does not function as the other side does, does not preclude it from "filtering" investiture a different way.

Or the sun could be investiture rich, and have a similar effect on daysiders that the highstorms have on rosharians. Increasing their natural health.

So just because it is preserved it holds the magical power you posit? Even if I could not give a counter reason why it is preserved, does not prove your theory correct. There are countless other explanations for its condition ranging from mundane to magical without resulting in the theory you put forth. Also Shallan tailors her art that "transforms" her targets specifically for each individual. Unless one of the lightweavers abilities is trap laden art, I feel what you are suggesting is a stretch. edit: just to clarify for everyone, because I did check the quote myself, but it is not a tapestry, and it is not perfectly preserved. please see below: Words of Radiance page 1066 "Adolin watched for a moment as the highprince himself raised a lantern, inspecting a faded painting on the wall. A fanciful picture, with animals from mythology. "

Lol I believe you are over complicating things. I was only stating Elantris came near the beginning as per Brandon's comment about how at least when the books first started being published, they were in chronological order. And I also did state, as you did, that recently that changed. Nothing deeper than that lol.

Yes that is the WoB, and that's what I meant. That Elantris's place is chronologically correct, because at least at first, they were ordered as they were published, but as time went on he would revisit earlier parts.

Also add to this, that he regains it right when he enters the Hall of Justice with the goal of preserving the Sand Masters. By taking on responsibility and aiding the city. Helping others and preserving a group identity does not sound very autonomous to me.

I think this would still support the plant/life cycle we see on Dayside but with a slight shift in darkside. There are lichen in the real world that light up when exposed to blacklight/UV light. There are also lichen that are airborn and never settle on the ground. Finally lichen can survive in a wide range of biomes. So Dayside's lichen is on the sand and reacts to moisture provided by sand mastery. Darksiders lichen is possibly in the air, injested or breathed in, and has a symbiotic relationship with the darksiders themselves. Which would explain the teeth nails and eyes glowing. Yes all conjecture, but I feel it is leaning in that direction.

Yeah, I am still irked that the sandling looks like it has eyes, but they are colored in. The artist has some explaining to do.

I cannot locate it, but there was a WoB where he explained that the first bunch of books published were released in chronological order. It is only recently that he said it has changed as he has multiple projects occurring he is working on at the same time and take place at different times.