Pathfinder

Ummmm Yeah I have a response to this, but that goes into prose territory. Personally I think there is something more going on regarding sandlings attacking and attempting to eat humans. Perhaps something semi divine.

Well lichen is a symbiotic relationship between fungus and algae, so I do not think it is a stretch to imagine the same mechanic takes place on darkside, but with a different type of "fungal" form. There are even lichen that are airborne for their entire life cycle. It is a very hearty "breed", that can exist in a whole host of climates, so having one breed exist on dayside, and another breed exist on darkside with both feeding on different manifestations of investiture is very plausible. Personally I am leaning towards reflected light on another body via the sun. I do not know much about astronomy, so I am unsure if the fact that dayside can see the moon would affect the ability of the moon to reflect the light to darkside or not.

Why thank you! So if abrasion is going along purely with science, then hammers and maces may be the weapon of choice against edgedancers. LOL I just realized, it brings a whole new meaning to their name. When you say they dance like on the edge of a blade, in this case it could be literal lol.

Lol so it seems I was right regarding propagating the lichen, and perhaps if we see more sand "farms" pop up mysteriously in the cosmere we can stroke our chins and go "hmmmmm a sand master was here......."

Sorry to clarify I meant if for instance Kenton went to Roshar with a vial of Taldain's white sand. He then got a villa, and being seen as an eccentric, had a wide area pit filled with sand. He then added this vial of sand to it. Finally he periodically added stormlight infused gemstones to the spot he poured Taldain's white sand. Then he would master the Taldain white sand. Then he would place more infused stones to see if that would change the black sand white. Then by continuing this process, would the lichen then grow, till it covered all the sand. Then Kenton, since he has the spirit web for sand mastery (which we do not fully know how it works as it can be taught), can master the entire pit of sand? It holds all the requirements for its ecology. It gets investiture from the stormlight, and water from the sand master.

Makes me wonder......if someone brought lichen covered white sand to Roshar for instance, and was able to make a field of sand for it to propagate on during highstorms, would the lichen spread and would the Rosharan sand be able to be mastered?

I was going on this premise:

I also found it very interesting that:

Pretty much. All the sample of the novella did to me is want Stormlight 3 that much sooner lol.

But every time the sand does get wet it does turn black. Also I was not necessarily saying the lichen "dies" when it turns black. Just that is when it releases its "spores" or spreads. That the water activates that portion of its life cycle. Lichen in real life changes color when wet and is in a symbiotic relationship with fungus. Perhaps, as you said, and I was thinking as well, the sand masters are in symbiotic relationship with the lichen, but not from housing them, but by helping propagate them.

The reason I brought it up was that Maxal was saying since Jasnah never mentioned herself in that sentence, that she was not in the line of inheritance. I was stating the logic was faulty, because neither was Renarin mentioned and everyone assumes he is in the line of succession. I will say one last thing and then truly I will stop. What happened to Navani, is referred to as "the Queen Mother". Please see the reference below: " As the monarch's mother, the queen mother is typically supported throughout her remaining years and given honour as a beloved relative, but has no official position or power. She is expected to carefully abstain from any involvement in governance or politics. Elsewhere, the position she occupies is somewhat more ritualistic in nature. " Which again is why I feel Navani's situation is different than Ialai's. Navani had children. As per the society, now that they have an heir to be king, she is of now "use" other than as a figure head. I feel my opinion is quite supported in historical as well as in book, but I am clearly in the minority here, and it would not further the thread for me to continue. I understand Maxal and Argel wishing to reply, as I am not doing this to "get the last word". In the end I guess we will RAFO.

So in the latest news letter, Brandon literally said that the magic is powered by the water from the sand master which fuels the lichen on the sand's life cycle. So the magic and ecology requires multiple components. You need the lichen on the sand, the sun to charge it, and water from the sand master to use it. Perhaps the water is how the lichen propagates, and the sun is what matures it? So basically what I am saying is, the lichen matures with the sun to reproductive or "fungal" stage to release spores but is dependent on water to release those spores to spread the lichen. That turns it black. The sunlight then causes the lichen to start the cycle over again. Even if I am incorrect in that, the fact that Brandon stated it was part of the lichen's life cycle clues us in that sand mastery is actually a much larger part of that world than allomancy ever was to Scadrial. At least in my opinion. P.S. I did get permission from Weiry Writer to discuss this subject and where to post it.

Should I put it in the general White Sand or the prose since that level of the magic has not been discussed yet in the graphic novel? And should I title that thread as newsletter spoilers or some such?

Ok then I will post regarding Brandon's comment about White Sand here in spoilers. If anyone thinks it should be taken down, or moved, please let me know and I totally understand.

So if Laral was never going to get ruling rights over Heartstone, then why was she given a dowry for compensation on top of her already monetary inheritance? What was the compensation for? The quote literally states: Wistiow's wealth - what was left of it - had gone to her. And when Roshone had been given authority over Hearthstone and granted the mansion and surrounding lands, Highprince Sadeas had given Laral a dowry in compensation. Roshone got Hearthstone, and Laral got a dowry in compensation. That syntax shows to me, that she was supposed to get Hearthstone, but since she didn't, she was given a dowry instead. Otherwise I am genuinely curious what do you suggest the dowry was in compensation for? Not trying to be condescending, just I do not see any other option personally so am genuinely curious. Again refer to the quote and the syntax. I found what you are referencing, have posted it below and will explain why I believe you mis-interpreted it. Words of Radiance page 46 "He's heir to a princedom! He's in line to the throne of Alethkar itself!" "Third in line," Jasnah said, "behind my brother's infant son and Dalinar, my uncle." That quote in no way disproves the line of inheritance I showed earlier. King dies, it goes to his son (Elhokar's son). If Elhokar's son is dead or dies, it goes to the next male heir. If there is no second son, it then goes to the King's next closest male relative, which is typically brother. Since Elhokar does not have a brother, it then goes to cousins/relatives. In this case Dalinar as his uncle. Since Dalinar has a son if anything then happens to him, it goes to Adolin, and then Renarin. If all male relatives are exhausted, then it goes to female issuance. Is there a female child of the king? No? Then go to next female relative, which would lead us to Jasnah. Why would Jasnah, in that conversation go "Third in line. behind my brother's infant son and Dalinar my uncle. Then his brother Renarin, and finally me." It makes no sense. She is speaking about Adolin, and his place in line. By your logic, then Renarin is not fourth in line for the throne, because he was not mentioned. That quote clearly follows the line of succession I mentioned earlier. The only difference is it didn't get far enough down the line to mention Jasnah. Ialai does not have that issue. We never hear of any male children of Sadeas. We never hear of any brothers of Sadeas. Given Sadeas's age, it is unlikely he has any uncles living. Also no mention of any male cousins. Now again, just because they aren't mentioned, does not mean they do not exist but given as you said it is wartime, it would make sense that all the highprinces have a clear line of succession in mind in case they die in battle. Ialai never seems to be concerned about this fact. Dalinar on the other hand mentions it specifically regarding Adolin and grooms him for exactly that. In the end this is my opinion, but I believe it is an opinion that is backed up by history and references in book. Won't know till book three. I won't continue to push my opinion as it is a derailment of this thread that is focusing on whether Sadeas has any connections to secret societies. Not whether or not Ialai keeps her title. Sorry for the derailment!

Every single culture with royalty, from Europe to Asia functions this way. First King, then to male child. No male child, check for brothers, male cousins, etc. None of that, check for female child. None of that, then goes to Wife. That is why Dalinar ended up the head of Kholinar. Galivar was the overall King. When he died, the kingship went to Elhokar, his only male issue. Then when deciding on who got Kholinar, they looked to the next male issue. Since there was not another male son, it went to his brother Dalinar. Jasnah is referred to as a princess and just because it is not explicitly stated, does not mean it is not possible as I have shown in the order of inheritance. It is unlikely, as they do look exhaustively for male issue, but it is certainly possible and has happened. See King Henry the 8th. Now you are right, drawing on earth form of inheritance is not conclusive, but Brandon draws heavily on that historical period from Asian and European culture so it certainly lends it credence. However that is also why I said that in my opinion, I still see it going that way. If a woman's right to rule was solely based on the Vorin division of sexes, then why is Elhokar's wife allowed to call the shots back in Kholinar while he is at the Shattered Plains? Laral was still a minor at that point, and Roshone wanted to marry her off to his son and then to himself to get Wistiow's money which he felt (rightly), that Lirin stole. That money would have gone to Laral, but Lirin had it forged to go to him. So Laral still inherited, but Roshone was given Hearthstone by Royal Edict because it was his exile for his transgressions as well as she was too young to rule it at the time. There are plenty of instances where landed nobles who are lords of such and such land, despite having male heirs, have it taken away and given to someone in greater favor or as punishment. So that unique circumstance does not make for doctrine of inheritance. for reference: Way of Kings page 192 The Alethi princedoms were like kingdoms unto themselves, still mostly autonomous despite having accepted Gavilar as king. Elhokar had inherited the throne, and Dalinar, by right, had taken the Kholin Princedom as his own. Way of Kings page 551 "Wistiow was not lucid during the final days, Kal," he whispered. "I knew that, with his death, we would lose the promise of a union. Laral had not reached her day of majority, and the new citylord wouldn't let a darkeyes take her inheritance through marriage." edit: found some more: Way of Kings page 548 Wistiow's wealth - what was left of it - had gone to her. And when Roshone had been given authority over Hearthstone and granted the mansion and surrounding lands, Highprince Sadeas had given Laral a dowry in compensation. So basically the mansion, lands and wealth should have all gone to Laral, but Sadeas granted the mansion, and lands to Roshone, for Elhokar to get him out of their hair and push the scandal under the rug. Since Laral was due to inherit, Sadeas to not completely screw her over as she was a loyal subject, gave her a decent dowry in compensation. Roshone being greedy, wanted that dowry, as well as the tie to her respectable house through marriage. So in conclusion, unless Sadeas has any brothers, any male cousins, or any male, and then female children, the title goes to Ialai. There have been none of the above mentioned so far. That does not preclude their existence, but it does give her a shot at holding the title herself legally. Conversely, Elhokar theoretically could give Sadeas's princedom to someone else, but I doubt that would happen as there would be a huge fall out with the other high princes, and Sadeas's army for doing so.

I am still of the opinion like in the other thread, that I do not feel Ialai will be as handicapped as people think. Navani lost all her power, because she had a son to inherit the throne. As far as we can see Ialai doesn't have any children, and I do not recall it ever being mentioned that Sadeas has any brothers. So by right of inheritance, the title may very well remain with Ialai until she decides to remarry.

Eh, I dunno, that doesn't fit right with me. Maybe it would make a static portal stick? So after the radiant transported, there would be a portal left open others could use for a certain amount of time?

Szeth already used adhesion at range. It sprayed from his finger tips and coated the floor. So don't need transportation for that.

I second this as there is a really big thing Sanderson says regarding White Sand's magic that I would love to discuss

Despite my feelings on the graphic novel, I do agree it should remain a graphic novel all the way to its resolution. It would feel too disjointed to suddenly go back to prose. I do hope as they continue, that they get a better feel for the medium and Brandon's writing, that it will get better. I guess I let my expectations and excitement get too high, that I was left disappointed. I am not sure if I had not read the prose, would I have felt the same or not, but I am leaning towards yes I would.

So I wrote a much longer post in the other thread, and I am contemplating if it should be moved to this one instead. I feel like the cut out large swaths of dialogue between Kenton and Khriss which was very disappointing to me. The Ais scene where he tried to capture Sharazan was 75 percent chopped out, and the deaths of that person in the closet's family for how horrible it was, was just glossed over. So much of the graphic novel I felt was just a light summary version of the actual prose version. The artwork didn't tell enough of the story for me, to make up for the lack of dialogue and cut out scenes. The more I talk about it, the more disappointed I become, which really sucks because I really did want to like it. I really want to find something redeeming in it, but I am having trouble edit: also did anyone else notice the colored in eyes of the sandling? I thought they were blind/eyeless? Not refering to the tonks (though they looked nothing like I imagined at all, and they completely skipped the scene where tonks are directed by slapping them with a hammer. Now they are just shelled horses )

So unfortunately I am of the camp where I left the graphic novel feeling lack luster. Now I will preface this with saying I did read the prose version, and I have always been the "book was better than other media adaption" type of person (only once has there ever been an exception in that for me, and that was Big Hero 6.). There are three big reasons I have always loved Brandon's books (in no particular order): 1. the humor 2. the magic 3. the fight scenes I will now break down as to why I feel this graphic novel falls short in each category. First the Humor. I feel like there is barely any humor or witty repartee between Kenton and Khriss. The biggest "zinger" Kenton gives Khriss is after she explains everything about darkside and how its technology works, he brushes off her question because "he doesn't like her". Now I know that is how their personalities work and clash. Khriss is always curious and Kenton is always defiant. So every time one asks a question, the other finds a way out of it. But that happened once, and it wasn't even clever. He even apologized immediately after. I feel like they are cranking up the speed of character growth way too fast. Second the magic. I understand it will probably be delved deeper in greater in the story, but a lot of the tricks Kenton pulls off, or cleverness in employing his magic is barely shown. For instance when he notices where the red stone is on the mastrell's path, by the darker sand in front of that hole. If I hadn't read the prose, I would have never noticed the slightly darker patch that he spent one sentence explaining. Instead I noticed the glint the red stone gave off, and would have assumed that was how he found it. Some pages they shove so many different images together on one page, that you barely get a clear picture of what is happening. That leads me to my next category. Third the fight scenes. Mistborn has always been my favorite for this. Brandon describes a fluid fight, that I can literally see in my mind, and leaves me in awe and amazement of the twists, cuts, and jumps his combatants pull off. Now I get White Sand is meant or feels like more of a political piece than a action orientated one. That it is more like Elantris than Mistborn. But there are still fight scenes, and because they shove so many different panels into a page, all I see are mages sticking their hands out, with slight areas around their hands glowing, and bits of blood flying from their targets. Praxton is a prime example. He yells out, glows, and then it is a sand wave. Now I am trying not to bring up the prose version, but the imagery I got there is in my opinion so much better than what I saw. The only thing I can think of, is they cut back on the panels, so the graphic novel wouldn't be so bloated with images, but I still feel the combat scenes should have taken up whole pages or two to really give the feeling of the expansive combat. We only get one. When Kenton yells about the sand masters to stop putting up walls in front of themselves, I think to myself "what is he talking about? I do not see any sand walls". I also do not see any ribbons shooting out to scythe, or stab the enemies. The most we see of the ribbons is when Kenton finally manifests three. Otherwise I feel the sand magic in combat is amorphous and that is a shame. So I think it is pretty clear from a lot of my complaints, center from the art. Not necessarily the art style itself, but the choice of panels, how they were arranged, and how much space was paid to which scenes. In some instances it felt even lazy. Like with the sandling. You look closely, and you can see it has eyes and a nose. Yet the eyes are completely colored in, iris and all. It feels like the artist meant to draw eyes, but then was told last minute that sandlings are blind/have no eyes, so just colored it in and hoped no one would notice. I am sorry for the long rant, and I do respect everyone else's opinions for those who liked it. I wanted to like it, I really did, but I just felt when I left it, feeling....meh. When I came on this morning, I was intending to write a post in the prose forum asking people to tell me if they liked it, felt eh about it or hated it and why to hopefully convince me to find some way to love it. But since there is already this reaction thread, I don't know if I should or not. Thoughts?

I could have sworn there was a WoB that said it was impossible to be a mistborn and ferring, or misting and feruchemist without the aid of hemalurgy. I have trouble finding any WoBs on Theoryland, so I was unable to locate this one and so cannot back it up, but I thought there was one.