Pathfinder

Would you rather gain powers from a disease (like silence divine), but have to keep yourself sick to have them, or gain powers from hemalurgy? (in this version the people the powers are taken from have to die, so no "donors")

I think a little much is being applied to this quote. I take it this way: " Ruin said. “Stay back? I’m all around you—the air (wind erodes, air pollution damages your lungs, etc) you pretend to breathe, the ground (earthquakes destroy cities, landslides bury, even insects and animals within the earth erode ruin and destroy) beneath your feet. I’m in that knife (cuts up things into smaller pieces, ends lives) and in your very soul (all beings on scadrial are made up of preservation and ruin, as well as Kelsier is shown to be very "ruinous" in his killing of the nobility and bringing down the lord ruler's reign). How exactly am I to ‘stay back’?”" So it is basically Ruin inflated ego Ati talking about how powerful and pervasive Ruin is. Just like his convo with Vin in the original trilogy. He is saying ruin is in all things. It is a natural step in the order of the cosmere. Running away from ruin is as likely as trying to run away from yourself. It is everywhere, all the time. It is in the air you breath, the ground you walk on, any of your possessions and you yourself. So how exactly is he to stay back?

So here is a thought, just throwing it out there that may ride both sides of this dilemma. What if Renarin gets possessed by the vision, so is not in control, and writes what he does on the wall while the place is empty earlier in the day. Then he wakes up from the vision, and realizes what he did. Embarrassed, and worried about being caught he puts an illusion of a plain wall over what he wrote. When the writing is revealed is simply by the time the stormlight has run out and the illusion fades. So while all those guards are around looking for someone to write/carve something, it had already been there hours before they ever arrived. So Renarin does not have to be super cunning to accomplish it (slip by invisible, or have a illusory duplicate of himself while he does ), and he can still be out of control of the visions. edit: also regarding why does Nale not go for Kaladin, Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin. Although we could debate regarding Jasnah, I think a case can be made that none of those four broke any Alethi or Kharbranth laws. Since they didn't break any laws, he has no reason to go for them. Lift stole, and Ym was an accessory to murder (if i recall correctly).

Some theorize it is cusicesh.

Well regarding Syl it was more in defiance of the Stormfather's wishes. Regarding Pattern, his research of Shallan looked pretty much approved by his type of spren. She was observed by numerous cryptics (when she drew, there were three or so of them watching her). Also there is the theory that what Elhokar saw were the cryptics watching him too and he might be a lightweaver. Since each order seems to have their own unique type of spren, I do not think it would be a stretch to think that they would handle the re-founding of the knights differently. Syl did it rebelliously, Pattern did it for research, Wyndle did it as per "Mother's" orders, Stormfather did it begrudgingly and Ivory we have no clue.

Evidence in favor:- Nightblood produces black smoke that is known to be "corrupted" Investiture corrupted breaths which is nalthis investiture- Black is the color of combined Investitures as stated, does that automatically mean Ruin is as well? How about clothing that is black? Just because black the color of combined investiture does not mean anything with a black color is combined investiture- Nightblood is based on a different magic system's product (a Shardblade from Roshar) it is based on roshar, made from nalthis. a benz and a lamborgini may both be cars, but it does not mean the companies teamed up to make them - One of the main creators of Nightblood is known to have visited Roshar before making Nightblood again, all that means is he drew inspiration for the idea. does not automatically mean they are combined. Seons would function similarly to spren if brought to Roshar. Does that mean they are combined investiture? no. - This same creator is also known to be able to use Stormlight, Roshar's magic, to fuel certain aspects of Nalthis magic (though this is shown after Nightblood's creation) by your own admittance, it is after nightbloods creation. that does not intrinsically mean they are linked- Nightblood has been referred to as a "robot spren" and a "broken Shardblade" by Brandon this is again because Vasher sought to emulate it using his own world's investiture. The broken shardblade comment was due to why it seemed to act differently. again i am not saying it is impossible. It is possible. But I take issue with the phrase "all but confirmed." It would be the equivalency of me saying it rained on sunday, so it is all but confirmed that it will rain every sunday. There is not a direct correlation between the two though it may appear to be. edit: another example. Well black is combined investiture. The black smoke nightblood emits is known as corrupted investiture. Then it is all but confirmed that all combined investiture is corrupted investiture!

I think it is a stretch at this stage to state that. Is it a possibility? Sure. Is it a likely possibility? There is still way too little info to support it. As put forward earlier, Ruin's color is black. Does that mean by extension by this WoB that it is all but confirmed that Ruin is a combination of investitures? Nope. So is it possible for Nightblood? Sure. Is it likely and all but confirmed? I think that is jumping the gun.

my problem with the theory that the reason they appear different is that they are at different levels of their oaths, is that lift knew abrasion first and then regrowth (in regards to healing). Ym already knew regrowth in regards to healing. So technically at the moment we meet them, Ym would be further along in his oaths then. So Wyndle should have taken on the appearance of Ym's spren when Lift healed, not the other way around. I admit the appearance difference could be the result of old magic interfering, but I personally do not think that is the case. I think this is one of those situations where the simplest answer is the correct answer.

So just to make sure I understand your theory correctly. You are positing that Ym's and Lift's spren are the same. That both are edgedancer. That the only reason they appear different is because of Lift's unique trait due to Old Magic, so she sees him more fully in the physical realm instead of just like light in Ym's case? It is an interesting theory, and one that cannot be disproved at this point, but I personally am leaning towards the butler did it. Simply they are two different spren because they look and act different.

Well here's a question regarding that then with Lift. So we assume her past crimes are theft, though as far as we know there could be one that was worse to warrant a death sentence and Nale seems to have been pursuing her for a relative amount of time (prior to when we meet her). However where this gets murky is when we meet her, is her first visit to that land, so her only crime there would be breaking and entering and stealing food. Now that, depending on the country could lead to a death sentence, of which her friend pardons when he becomes the new ruler. Thing is, darkness had been already pursuing her at that point, for a past crime. This leads to the question that does that pardon, automatically pardon her for every other crime she ever committed in every other country? There are very very very few instances where the court of one country could pardon the offense made in another country, and even then you need the other country's approval to do so. Yet in Lift's case, by the shear nature of the pardon, she is saved from death by Nale, absolving her of all crime. He assumes of course she will commit new crimes so he will come for her later, but that still leaves that question.

Heal jasnah hurt marsh 1. Kaladin 67 HP 5. Shallan 29 HP 20. Marsh 19 HP 25. Jasnah 10 HP

Heal Jasnah hurt marsh 2. Kaladin 48 HP 5. Shallan 29 HP 20. Marsh 13 HP 25. Jasnah 35 HP

Hurt Marsh; heal jasnah 2. Kaladin 47 HP 5. Shallan 28 HP 20. Marsh 14 HP 25. Jasnah 36 HP

Heal jasnah hurt marsh (corrected previous post that accidently minused kaladin 2 and gave marsh 2) 2. Kaladin 47 HP 5. Shallan 27 HP 20. Marsh 15 HP 25. Jasnah 36 HP

Hurt marsh, heal jasnah 2. Kaladin 46 HP 5. Shallan 29 HP 20. Marsh 15 HP 25. Jasnah 35 HP

Heal jasnah, hurt marsh 2. Kaladin 46 HP 5. Shallan 27 HP 20. Marsh 16 HP 25. Jasnah 36 HP

Heal jasnah Hurt marsh. 2. Kaladin 46 HP 5. Shallan 29 HP 20. Marsh 15 HP 25. Jasnah 35 HP

Hurt marsh, Heal jasnah 2. Kaladin 47 HP 5. Shallan 29 HP 20. Marsh 14 HP 25. Jasnah 35 HP magestar, please correct ur jasnah to 34 from your post of 24

Hurt Marsh heal jasnah 2. Kaladin 47 HP 5. Shallan 29 HP 20. Marsh 14 HP 25. Jasnah 35 HP fixed my own post

Hurt Marsh; heal jasnah 2. Kaladin 46 HP 5. Shallan 26 HP 20. Marsh 8 HP 25. Jasnah 45 HP

Heal jasnah hurt marsh 2. Kaladin 45 HP 5. Shallan 25 HP 20. Marsh 10 HP 25. Jasnah 45 HP

Hurt marsh heal jasnah 2. Kaladin 45 HP 5. Shallan 26 HP 20. Marsh 11 HP 25. Jasnah 43 HP

Hurt Marsh; heal jasnah 2. Kaladin 45 HP 5. Shallan 26 HP 20. Marsh 13 HP 25. Jasnah 41 HP

Hurt Marsh Heal Jasnah. She discovered the void bringers, taught shallan, and potentially is the most knowledgeable radiant at this time. I'd say she is going to be pretty important 2. Kaladin 44 HP 5. Shallan 26 HP 20. Marsh 14 HP 25. Jasnah 41 HP

guess kelsier is no longer the survivor. kill kel heal jasnah 1. Kelsier 0 HP 2. Kaladin 44 HP 5. Shallan 26 HP 20. Marsh 15 HP 25. Jasnah 40 HP