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Long Game 78: The Legend of Zelda: The False Heroes


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That's a relief, but Zelda (TJ) is still dead and that means whoever Link is needs to be protected at all costs. I doubt there's another Sheikah but if there is they should also remain under cover. I'd say the same for if there's another village Postman but being under cover...really...doesn't work I guess? Idk I'm panicking. There's still a chance, but it's very slim.

I think during D4 we were going off the assumption that no village knight is left, and possibly one elim!knight but if there is still a village knight left prioritize whoever you think Link is. 

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I'm confused. Not by the flip, but by the writeup. I really should figure out how Zelda world works sometime, but at this point I'm just gonna accept that hat people are a thing. 

I suspect Tani already let it out of the bag with that ping, but on the off chance the secret remains kept, I'll suggest that the now village confimerd postman keep their identity secret because we need to continue giving Link cover. 

Show of hands, who thinks they were in a PM Drake made/was in? An e/e PM makes little sense for an elim to make, so it is alignment indicative. 

I was in a Drake PM, but I know he didn't make it because it was created before he got on the Shard to see his GM PM back on D1. Rereading it, the worst I did was tell him I grabbed bananas. He also claimed bananas, which I'm inclined to believe. Looks like there was no vote manip, so he didn't burn them just to keep them out of our hands. Probably means there's an elim on that wagon, surprise, surprise. 

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8 minutes ago, Archer said:

Show of hands, who thinks they were in a PM Drake made/was in? An e/e PM makes little sense for an elim to make, so it is alignment indicative. 

*hand*

Me and SzethP. Also, I know Drake made our PM.

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1 minute ago, Archer said:

I suspect Tani already let it out of the bag with that ping, but on the off chance the secret remains kept, I'll suggest that the now village confimerd postman keep their identity secret because we need to continue giving Link cover. 

I haven't had a PM yet but I agree that whoever the postman is needs to be a secret if there's any chances of protecting Link. There's a lot of big elim's down like the King and Postman now, but there's still Yiga and Zelda (TJ) is dead. 

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57 minutes ago, YeetAroundABush said:

My only PM was with TUO, and it was set up the second day I believe.

Interesting choice on the Postman's part. 

55 minutes ago, Tani said:

*hand*

Me and SzethP. Also, I know Drake made our PM.

Right, because it'd close upon his death. Also, I'm glad you weren't alluding to them being a Postman. Totally misread that post there.

(Yeet, did yours close?) 

That does however beg the question, why would Drake make a PM between you two? Chaos move, or an elim helping his elim teammate build a network... 

58 minutes ago, WhiffleWaffles said:

It also sucks because a Hyrulean Knight was voted off the first cycle and if they had still been here... >:( there could've been a chance for survival, most likely. 

I'm going to retract my vote from Drake, btw...which probably won't do anything honestly since 9 have voted for them. My reasoning is because so many have voted for them and if Drake is *somehow* not an elim...idk :(

I wanna talk about this post from last round. If Drake was Link, the game would be over. It didn't make sense for a villager to fake claim Link in his shoes. Whereas if he was evil, we'd kill an evil person and be closer to winning. I'm struggling to see your rationale for moving your vote off. It didn't end up mattering, but it could have with some vote manipulating and elim teammate votes on another wagon. So why'd you break ranks? 

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1 hour ago, Archer said:

I wanna talk about this post from last round. If Drake was Link, the game would be over. It didn't make sense for a villager to fake claim Link in his shoes. Whereas if he was evil, we'd kill an evil person and be closer to winning. I'm struggling to see your rationale for moving your vote off. It didn't end up mattering, but it could have with some vote manipulating and elim teammate votes on another wagon. So why'd you break ranks?

From what I understood within the past few days, even killing off an elim doesn't guarantee our chances of a village win. It's all relying on Link's survival. I had the rationale that if Drake were somehow Link, even if it was a tiny chance, that I didn't want to take on the vote to eliminate them. Also, I remembered at one point that I had voted for TJ (iirc) after seeing a lot of people go for them, so I hopped on that bandwagon and what were the results? They were flipping Zelda! ;-; 

Also, I saw Tani retract their vote and noticed some people didn't vote so I decided to retract my vote and being involved in a worst case scenario (Drake being Link and dying.) 

I knew that was going to be suspicious but at that point I have lost all hope >:P 

From what I've gathered since D3/D4 there's likely one elim knight, no village knights left, Zelda is dead, there's a parity (if Link dies we lose), and we lost our 100% confirmed village Dannex. I honestly think it was out of panic too, and that since there were so many votes, he'd be voted off either way...


1 hour ago, Archer said:

That does however beg the question, why would Drake make a PM between you two? Chaos move, or an elim helping his elim teammate build a network... 

(sorry for the double post it wouldn't let me respond to this quote and then it took 5 minutes for my message to be sent sjdsla)

Wait...I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly or not, but why are we asking who Drake opened up PMs with? Did he have access to what was discussed between PMs? OR was it just the GM's and the two correspondents? 

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27 minutes ago, WhiffleWaffles said:

From what I understood within the past few days, even killing off an elim doesn't guarantee our chances of a village win. It's all relying on Link's survival. I had the rationale that if Drake were somehow Link, even if it was a tiny chance, that I didn't want to take on the vote to eliminate them. Also, I remembered at one point that I had voted for TJ (iirc) after seeing a lot of people go for them, so I hopped on that bandwagon and what were the results? They were flipping Zelda! ;-; 

Also, I saw Tani retract their vote and noticed some people didn't vote so I decided to retract my vote and being involved in a worst case scenario (Drake being Link and dying.) 

I knew that was going to be suspicious but at that point I have lost all hope >:P 

From what I've gathered since D3/D4 there's likely one elim knight, no village knights left, Zelda is dead, there's a parity (if Link dies we lose), and we lost our 100% confirmed village Dannex. I honestly think it was out of panic too, and that since there were so many votes, he'd be voted off either way...


Two points of clarification:

-we piled on TUO. TJ was night killed off a knight redirect of the Link kill. I still think it was the right call, given eh information we had, but boy was I wrong. Anyway. 

-If Drake was Link, the game would have immediately ended when he was killed. So we all would have lost together and there'd be no point having saved face. If you thought it wasn't worth the risk, given his claim, I think just dropping your vote didn't accomplish much. We would have needed an alternative exe candidate as well, because someone's always going to die.

If you were his e!teammate however, it could be construed as an attempt to dampen the momentum building to kill Drake. I'm mostly sure it was just innocent confusion, but it's a good thing to be conscious of. 

25 minutes ago, WhiffleWaffles said:

(sorry for the double post it wouldn't let me respond to this quote and then it took 5 minutes for my message to be sent sjdsla)

Wait...I don't know if I'm remembering this correctly or not, but why are we asking who Drake opened up PMs with? Did he have access to what was discussed between PMs? OR was it just the GM's and the two correspondents? 

So Drake could either make a PM with someone else in it and himself, or make ones with two other people in it, but not himself. If he wasn't in it, he couldn't read it. He probably relayed all information he got from the PMs he was in to the elim doc, so repeating stuff of note in thread is a good idea. As is relaying any reads, arguments etc he made in those PMs. Stuff to analyze is always helpful! 

Since the elims have a doc to collaborate in, if makes little sense for e!Drake to make a PM with two of his e!teammates in it. It'd only really be done if he thought he might be outed soon and wanted to confuse the type of analysis we're attempting right now. 

It also makes little sense for him to make PMs with two villagers in them. He gets much more benefit out of putting a teammate in a PM with a villager, so they can press them for information and trusts. He might have tried putting Dannex into PMs with random people in a genuine attempt to figure out who Zelda is, because Dannex might reveal they've made contact in thread immediately upon their succeeding, which would be a dead giveaway with regards to Zelda's identity, but we'll never know if he did that as Dannex is dead. 

TL;DR Drake probably made e/v PMs, so knowing what pairings he made helps us find elims. 

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26 minutes ago, Archer said:

If you were his e!teammate however, it could be construed as an attempt to dampen the momentum building to kill Drake. I'm mostly sure it was just innocent confusion, but it's a good thing to be conscious of. 

I've honestly learned a lot from that confusion. I think my paranoia is getting the best of me at the moment and I'm just scrambling at everything but I totally understand why you brought it up and stuff. 

26 minutes ago, Archer said:

TL;DR Drake probably made e/v PMs, so knowing what pairings he made helps us find elims.

Thank you for clearing this up! It makes a lot more sense now. So far we've had PM's for the following:

Tani with SzethP: Tani said they know it was made by Drake. Also Tani had just pinged SzethP...so do they know their alignment or what's the deal.

YeetAroundABush with TUO: this was on the second day, it could've been a Village Postman who set up the PM or Drake. It was confirmed that TUO was a Hyrulean.

(I probably missed a lot of people, sorry.) 

 

 

Edited by WhiffleWaffles
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Sorry about the inactivity! 
 

6 hours ago, Tani said:

@Szeth_Pancakes two things:

1. What should I call you?

2. Should we tell them?

You can call me Szeth, or Pancakes, or SzethP, or SP, or whatever you want. The general consensus seems to be Szeth, though.

2 hours ago, WhiffleWaffles said:

Tani with SzethP: Tani said they know it was made by Drake. Also Tani had just pinged SzethP...so do they know their alignment or what's the deal.

Neither of us did any roleclaiming - I was too inactive lol. I don’t know Tani’s alignment, but since I’m village, I’m slightly leaning toward elim right now. Plus, I already had a small gut elim read on Tani, but I always do so I didn’t think much of it. I doubt that she’s actually elim, but I thought I’d mention that.

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So, obviously Drake's final analysis post should be taken with about a million grains of salt. But let's still analyse it.

First, let's go through who Drake mentioned in that analysis: 

They said the Drake/Archer PM was alignment indicative
They said Devotary/Drake PM was as well
They claimed Szeth as their top suspicion
"Jondesu helped me vote for TJ that one time and it is rare for eliminator teammates to vote in sync, so Jondesu is probably a villager"
"Alvron is most likely a villager ... because people I agree with must be villagers."
Drake claimed that there is not another knight in the game
They claimed that Link is Tani. 
"Devotary just asked me to kill Archer smh the plan was to kill Tani"

SO:
we have Archer, Devotary, Szeth, Jondesu, Alvaron, and Tani. 

Their analysis is obviously a last ditch attempt to manipulate us. But, who they accused and who they defended could still give clues. The fact that Archer was mentioned twice and both times implied to be village is interesting, but could be an attempt to target one of our biggest trust reads and undermine that trust. We could glance through Devotary's, Jondesu's and Alvaron's message history since they were Drake's "village reads," although Devotary was implied to be elim in the final paragraph, which makes me think Drake might have been trying to undercut another vil read. 

I think it's a bad idea to assume Drake was telling the truth about the knight role, so we should play it safe and assume there is another knight. I also think his other role claims (e!urbosa and e!revali) should be taken with a grain of salt. He could have been trying to scare us by claiming powerful roles for the elim team, and it could have also been a gambit to draw those roles into claiming (so that they could then be killed)

Obviously, the Link claim is the elephant in the room. I think they were trying to play off of our fear of losing zelda to try to protect an elim teammate. Tani has also been pulling that "vote me off" gambit, which I think is intended as reverse psychology to make us underestimate them. I'm not sure if this is also an attempt to draw the real link into claiming. 

Szeth's response also makes me lean elim!Tani. Szeth had some genuine tension with Illwei (conf e) early in the game. So, that combined with my existing suspicions of Tani makes me lean e!tani and v!Szeth. 

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3 hours ago, attic_gremlin said:

So, obviously Drake's final analysis post should be taken with about a million grains of salt. But let's still analyse it.

First, let's go through who Drake mentioned in that analysis: 

I do like that you went thru this and analyzed it, which is nice but I have a feeling it's 100% a troll/last ditch effort to make. He did say it was basically a troll post and that he was offended that people think that he might not be Yiga in white looking back at it. However, it's still good to look at all our options, especially at this point in the game.


I do like to keep in mind that interaction that happened with Drake and Tani via the dialogue on D4 and me explaining what it is. If Tani is Elim and Drake was Yiga Postman it could just be a thing but idk why it just felt very off...probably because the dialogue brings me chills. xD

3 hours ago, attic_gremlin said:

Szeth's response also makes me lean elim!Tani. Szeth had some genuine tension with Illwei (conf e) early in the game. So, that combined with my existing suspicions of Tani makes me lean e!tani and v!Szeth.

I have back and forth vibes on how I feel on this... I feel like there's more to it when there probably isn't. Drake opened that PM with Tani and Szeth. Tani knew Drake opened the PM for them. But what if it's just another way to manipulate? 


Does anyone have a basic rundown/analysis/summary of the game since D1? My notes are scrambled like...scrambled eggs. xP
3 hours ago, attic_gremlin said:

we have Archer, Devotary, Szeth, Jondesu, Alvaron, and Tani. 

Their analysis is obviously a last ditch attempt to manipulate us. But, who they accused and who they defended could still give clues. The fact that Archer was mentioned twice and both times implied to be village is interesting, but could be an attempt to target one of our biggest trust reads and undermine that trust. We could glance through Devotary's, Jondesu's and Alvaron's message history since they were Drake's "village reads," although Devotary was implied to be elim in the final paragraph, which makes me think Drake might have been trying to undercut another vil read. 

I think it's a bad idea to assume Drake was telling the truth about the knight role, so we should play it safe and assume there is another knight. I also think his other role claims (e!urbosa and e!revali) should be taken with a grain of salt. He could have been trying to scare us by claiming powerful roles for the elim team, and it could have also been a gambit to draw those roles into claiming (so that they could then be killed)

Obviously, the Link claim is the elephant in the room. I think they were trying to play off of our fear of losing zelda to try to protect an elim teammate. Tani has also been pulling that "vote me off" gambit, which I think is intended as reverse psychology to make us underestimate them. I'm not sure if this is also an attempt to draw the real link into claiming. 

What are your reads on those mentioned people besides Drake's latch-ditch effort/purposeful funny joke analysis?

Edited by WhiffleWaffles
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6 hours ago, Archer said:

That does however beg the question, why would Drake make a PM between you two? Chaos move, or an elim helping his elim teammate build a network...

I don't know, and iirc Szeth said he(?) didn't know either.

3 hours ago, Szeth_Pancakes said:

Neither of us did any roleclaiming - I was too inactive lol. I don’t know Tani’s alignment, but since I’m village, I’m slightly leaning toward elim right now. Plus, I already had a small gut elim read on Tani, but I always do so I didn’t think much of it. I doubt that she’s actually elim, but I thought I’d mention that.

I think it would be a bad idea to roleclaim anything right now, even joking. I'm putting this here because I was kinda thinking a bit of roleclaiming.

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Just now, Tani said:

I don't know, and iirc Szeth said he(?) didn't know either.

So none of you requested a PM or did one of you request a random PM? 

5 hours ago, Archer said:

Since the elims have a doc to collaborate in, if makes little sense for e!Drake to make a PM with two of his e!teammates in it. It'd only really be done if he thought he might be outed soon and wanted to confuse the type of analysis we're attempting right now.

I don't know if it's of interest or not but when Tani voted for Tani, Drake also hopped onto that wagon train and voted Tani.

At that point I think there were like 11 votes for TUO, 2 for Drake, and 2 for Tani. Here's what I had written down for that vote sequence: 

"TUO (11): Ashbringer, Archer, Dannex, Szeth_Pancakes, Devotary, Random Bystander, WhiffleWaffles, attic_gremlin, YeetAroundABush, purplewhiteandgold, quillinthestars
DrakeMarshall (2): Steeldancer, TJ
Tani (2): DrakeMarshall, Tani"

Would it be a surprise if Drake did an e/e PM? What if that's some sort of plan to throw us off, as Attic and Archer pointed out. I think Drake knew that they would be voted off soon... 

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I specifically requested no PMs if you recall, and got my wish. None with anyone.

I wouldn’t put any stock in Drake’s last analysis post. He’s just messing with us. There’s probably teammates and villagers thrown around willynilly in there.

I do agree that Tani has been seeming just a bit suspicious for a bit now, not a lot but enough to maybe act on.

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Definitely N1, but I think also maybe D1? I don't recall and am too lazy to go check.

Now that I've established that I'm too lazy, here's a sorta analysis to Drake's analysis and the other analysises of Drake's analysis. My responses will be in blue! With no emojis.

Quote

Drake:

Quote

Waffles:

Quote

Drake:

You mean you don't want me to make a fake analysis post filled with trolling and fake leads? "filled with trolling and fake leads" :(

Darn I was really hoping to get some people misexed that way. There go all of my plans... everyone who said I might not be Yiga is evil tbh

Ooo interesting white text >>

manipulation or accurate? ikyk? it was white...

@StrikerEZ is white text even allowed?

in that case go for it if you want lmao xD

We'll find out N4 I guess. >:P 

The village will not find out anything of the sort because Link can't make a kill N4 and my eliminator compatriots shall strive to eliminate an innocent Hyrulean >:P

Why can't Link make a kill N4? Oh yeah he killed a Hyrulean N3. I forgot that for a bit. *oops smilyface*

Anyways without further ado, here is my analysis! :D You're late. Mine started two posts ago.

I would expect the Yiga to have one or two more roles remaining. You would expect? You ARE Yiga. You should KNOW. Probably Revali and Urbosa. Whoever said that Daruk is a Yiga is probably mistaken. What do all those people do again? Also, why should we trust you?

I would be suspicious of everyone who has not followed my D1 advice about avoiding all forms of role-related discussion. A major difference between this game and most games is that the Yiga have much less of a vested interest in hiding role-related information than the Hyruleans do. Is this accurate? It sounds right... also roleclaiming from Hyruleans is a bad idea because it makes it harder for the important roles to hide. Archer was quite correct that when I revealed we had a PM with each other, it was alignment indicative. Come to think of it, the fact that Devotary revealed we have a PM between each other is much the same.

My top suspicion is still Szeth. Their vote this cycle was pretty bandwagony tbh. Of all of the votes on me, theirs was the most suspicious. On the other hand, everyone who voted for me D2 is clearly cleared. Especially TJ. Speaking of TJ, Jondesu helped me vote for TJ that one time and it is rare for eliminator teammates to vote in sync, so Jondesu is probably a villager, right?

Alvron is most likely a villager due to their helpful analysis that I agree with, because people I agree with must be villagers. Hmm. In particular, they are in principle correct that there could be a Knight of either alignment left in the game.

However, there is not, in fact, another Knight. Are you... gloating? And how would you know? You only know about your team.

Also you could be trying to decieve us simply because you can.

And it is for this reason that while it may look like I am about to die an ignominious death at the hands of a bloodthirsty mob of villagers, the truth is that everything is going exactly according to my plan, which I have planned from the start, down to the systematic removal of every possible protective power in the game. Yeah, right. You know, I have some relatives who say that, and it's always a joke. I am, in fact, currently in the process of delivering to the village a staggering defeat of titanic proportions. That's right. The village has in fact already lost, and they just don't know it yet. But I know. I know who Link is. It's Tani. You're right! I did claim Link! Good job! Guess what: I also claimed Zelda. I am revealing I know this which should be indelible proof of how confident I am that nothing can stop the Yiga. Except losing. And while Tani may think to keep the murderers at bay with a concealed Hearty Durian (yuck) that I also know they have, Actually, I only have a rupee. No durian (yum) for me. (sad.) this puny measure will only forestall the inevitable. In a tactical masterstroke of unparalleled genius, we the Yiga shall simply attack a second time!! "tactical masterstroke of unparalleled genius"? Attacking a second time? It is inconceivable that the village will be able to execute all of us before Tani, who is Link, You keep saying this. Is there a reason you're emphasizing it? is slain. And therefore, nothing can stop my evil plan thank you for coming to my ted talk

Also Devotary just asked me to kill Archer smh the plan was to kill Tani but I don't want to not do what Devotary says guys help what do I do

"Come to think of it, the fact that Devotary revealed we have a PM between each other is much the same." 

It's the day turn when you post this, and you're about to die. You can't kill anyone. Not directly...

It could actually be the plan to kill me, or get yous to kill me, probably by this analysis.

3 hours ago, attic_gremlin said:

So, obviously Drake's final analysis post should be taken with about a million grains of salt. But let's still analyse it.

First, let's go through who Drake mentioned in that analysis: 

They said the Drake/Archer PM was alignment indicative
They said Devotary/Drake PM was as well
They claimed Szeth as their top suspicion
"Jondesu helped me vote for TJ that one time and it is rare for eliminator teammates to vote in sync, so Jondesu is probably a villager"
"Alvron is most likely a villager ... because people I agree with must be villagers."
Drake claimed that there is not another knight in the game
They claimed that Link is Tani. 
"Devotary just asked me to kill Archer smh the plan was to kill Tani"

SO:
we have Archer, Devotary, Szeth, Jondesu, Alvron, and Tani. 

Their analysis is obviously a last ditch attempt to manipulate us. But, who they accused and who they defended could still give clues. The fact that Archer was mentioned twice and both times implied to be village is interesting, but could be an attempt to target one of our biggest trust reads and undermine that trust. We could glance through Devotary's, Jondesu's and Alvron's message history since they were Drake's "village reads," although Devotary was implied to be elim in the final paragraph, which makes me think Drake might have been trying to undercut another vil read. Or vilify an elim read. (wow that statement is weird.)

I think it's a bad idea to assume Drake was telling the truth about the knight role, so we should play it safe and assume there is another knight. I also think his other role claims (e!urbosa and e!revali) should be taken with a grain of salt. He could have been trying to scare us by claiming powerful roles for the elim team, and it could have also been a gambit to draw those roles into claiming (so that they could then be killed) There's been lots of talk about drawing people into claiming this game. I doubt anyone will fall for it.

Obviously, the Link claim is the elephant in the room. I think they were trying to play off of our fear of losing zelda to try to protect an elim teammate. Actually, no. We killed off the last person he said was Link (himself) so he probably knew that wouldn't work. Also, it could be to get yous to kill me. Tani has also been pulling that "vote me off" gambit, (actually I tugged on it once or twice and then quit, partially because Striker didn't like it and said so in my GM PM) which I think is intended as reverse psychology to make us underestimate them. No, it was supposed to 1) get me dead or 2) let me check something that has little or nothing to do with this game. Then I decided I didn't actually want to die. I'm not sure if this is also an attempt to draw the real link into claiming. Well, if so, Link don't claim.

If I am Link, they caught me and I'm dead. If I'm not, they'll kill me, not Link.

But then there's also the possibility that Drake says I'm Link in the thread, and knows I'm not, and the elims are trying to get Link to claim by claiming I'm Link.

Szeth's response also makes me lean elim!Tani. Szeth had some genuine tension with Illwei (conf e) early in the game. So, that combined with my existing suspicions of Tani makes me lean e!tani and v!Szeth. Distancing exists.

1 hour ago, WhiffleWaffles said:

I do like that you went thru this and analyzed it, which is nice but I have a feeling it's 100% a troll/last ditch effort to make. He did say it was basically a troll post and that he was offended that people think that he might not be Yiga in white looking back at it. Actually he said anyone who said he might not be Yiga is elim. However, it's still good to look at all our options, especially at this point in the game.


I do like to keep in mind that interaction that happened with Drake and Tani via the dialogue on D4 and me explaining what it is. If Tani is Elim and Drake was Yiga Postman it could just be a thing but idk why it just felt very off...probably because the dialogue brings me chills. xD I went and looked at it and it's more scary now that I know Drake figured I'm Link.

Wait.

Does Drake think I'm Link because I asked about the story?

Quote

Szeth's response also makes me lean elim!Tani. Szeth had some genuine tension with Illwei (conf e) early in the game. So, that combined with my existing suspicions of Tani makes me lean e!tani and v!Szeth. 

I have back and forth vibes on how I feel on this... I feel like there's more to it when there probably isn't. Drake opened that PM with Tani and Szeth. Tani knew Drake opened the PM for them. Well, yeah. It kinda closed when he died and we both literally got a message saying the PM closed because the Postman who made it died. I didn't know Drake made it when it was made, only after it shut down. But what if it's just another way to manipulate?

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I'm glad Drake wasn't actually Link. That would have sucked. 
The only PM I was ever in was with Matrim, and they got killed off... sadness. 
I don't really have any thoughts, I've been beaching it up the past couple days and haven't had as much time to devote to this game. Just wanted to check in. Tomorrow should be also a not-busy day so I'll do a full readthrough of Illwei, Drake, and Araris, and their interactions and whatnot. (Hopefully).

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