Long Game 74: You Want It Darker

[Quintessential]

@Gears okay cool so you're the only one of us here who has any sense whatsoever :P. I'd sheep you on Books but I don't really have any reasoning for it apart from a vague gut feeling so I won't do that because it seems dumb.

5 minutes ago, Gears said:

And Quinn just retracted, I'm sure a lot of my points are invalidated by that, so I'm going to hit post before another million ninjas make me commit seppuku.

Nah all of your points about me are valid it's just that some of them occurred to me just before you posted  

[StrikerEZ]

3 minutes ago, Gears said:

Striker's and Biplet's reasoning is that Illwei is frustrated about terrible reasoning which is also not very good reasoning.

First off: it’s not terrible reasoning. We both genuinely found her actions suspicious and found the way she was acting suspicious. I’m not even basing it off of the meta. Sure, I’m saying “here is some context,” but that’s not the primary reason I’m voting for her.

Second: I still don’t think it was a good idea for Illwei to react like that to a new player voting for her and stuff. Like...bip came to those conclusions on her own while reading the thread. And making a big deal out of it all and voting on herself was a bit dramatic. Like...I don’t know, I’m not a fan of playing to emotions like that. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Biplet]

Okay

Illwei

idk anymore

[Gears]

17 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

@Gears okay cool so you're the only one of us here who has any sense whatsoever :P. I'd sheep you on Books but I don't really have any reasoning for it apart from a vague gut feeling so I won't do that because it seems dumb.

Nah all of your points about me are valid it's just that some of them occurred to me just before you posted  

I wouldn't say I'm the only one who has any sense. I just think that you're using your sense to dig yourself a neat little tunnel to China. Reasoning for voting Books: Books said that all of Striker's points were suspicious when only one of them was which implies that Books doesn't actually care about Striker's alignment but rather is attempting to frame Striker in a malicious light [tunneling villager or elim]. They also were very hedgy about their opinion on Striker, bouncing between TWTBAW and wolfy before Stick mentioned their bouncing around to them and then they promptly have an opinion, and having an opinion isn't necessarily bad, but the fact that they made one immediately after they were called out on not having one is suspicious to me. They also haven't said much to alleviate my thoughts on them, so they're my best lead as of now. With everyone else, there is evidence both ways.

8 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

First off: it’s not terrible reasoning. We both genuinely found her actions suspicious and found the way she was acting suspicious. I’m not even basing it off of the meta. Sure, I’m saying “here is some context,” but that’s not the primary reason I’m voting for her.

Second: I still don’t think it was a good idea for Illwei to react like that to a new player voting for her and stuff. Like...bip came to those conclusions on her own while reading the thread. And making a big deal out of it all and voting on herself was a bit dramatic. Like...I don’t know, I’m not a fan of playing to emotions like that. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I wasn't saying that your reasoning was terrible. I was saying this: Illwei was frustrated at the reasoning for voting her. You voted on her because of her wanting roles to claim [normal Illwei], Bip voted on Illwei for the argument with Quinn [normal Illwei] [which brings up another point [unrelated to your reasoning]: Why are the people voting on Illwei because of the argument voting on Illwei, not Quinn?] but you two continued to justify your suspicions because of her reactions of defensiveness and frustration, which I think are perfectly justified given Illwei's temperament and the reasoning of votes on her. My apologies for poor phrasing.

Illwei wasn't making a big deal out of Bip's vote specifically. It was more about how later voters must necessarily vote on the people discussed earlier [which is often the people being voted on] because that's all there is to analyse. It wasn't about Bip. Illwei said it wasn't about Bip. Besides, Illwei votes on herself on a semi-frequent basis. She's either conceding the argument out of frustration or joking [and I have a hard time telling the difference, hence the "are you OK" bit to her]

6 minutes ago, Biplet said:

Okay

Illwei

idk anymore

Bip, don't do something just because I say to. If you are retracting because you are no longer confident in your suspicions, that's fine, but I would also appreciate it if you made that known to us people who are not in your head and unable to read your mind. If you are still suspicious of Illwei, then go ahead and stay on. I just wanted everyone to just consider why they are voting for Illwei, as I had not really understood the reasoning. I don't want to control you. You're new, and you bring fresh ideas to the table. Don't let me commandeer your opinions. If you were genuinely convinced, that's fine, but if you're just agreeing because I want you to, then that's a problem. Express your own opinions, not mine. 

[Biplet]

2 minutes ago, Gears said:

Bip, don't do something just because I say to

Lol I'm just uncertain now

[Quivil]

2 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

I mean, yeah. I could see it. Could be a new player told to come in thread and act really new. Could also just be a new player with a very different play style. Also have to keep in mind that it’s not like they’ve never played mafia or anything before. They even said that they’ve played on other places before. Even if the way we do things here is a bit different, mafia is still mafia.

This is the first game of SE or even online mafia I've ever played.

[StrikerEZ]

3 minutes ago, Tani said:

This is the first game of SE or even online mafia I've ever played.

Oh I thought you'd said you'd played before. My bad. You did say you've played like in person versions before, right?

[Quintessential]

Current VC:
Reading (2): Araris, Fifth
Striker (2): Pyro, Matrim
Stick (1): XP
Illwei (3): Maill, Striker, Illwei
Quinn (2): Dannex, Tani
Pyro (1): Bard
Books (1): Gears

Great, so, things. Given that we've got about 14 hours left in the cycle, it's probably a bad thing that the votes are so spread out. Because ties result in no one dying, and we could easily end up with a tie here depending on who moves last-minute, if anyone, and who any vote-manippers may choose to target. 

First of all, @Illwei you forgot to retract your vote on TJ before you voted yourself, which iirc is a thing that Kas... recommends? requires? idk but anyway.

Second of all, would appreciate it if you unvote yourself please and thanks. If the purpose of the vote was to convince me you're vil, it definitely worked, especially since I was wavering anyway. Your point has been made. I'm sorry for tunneling on you :P. I'll try not to do it again even though now I'm imagining the elim doc laughing at the ease with which I am pocketed.

Third of all, @Dannex are you really going to leave your vote on me? Over a joke? :P. And @Tani it would be nice of you to remove your vote from me too, if you feel like it 

I'm gonna stop using numbers now, but other things.

Uhhh let's go with Books because Gears made some good points about them and also process of elimination. By which I mean: 

I know I'm village and having stepped back a bit and looked at Illwei without so much tunnel vision I think she is too. Striker I'm vil-reading for his responses to the attacks on him. Reading, Stick, and Pyro are all null for me at this point, so I guess I would vote them in the event of a tie, but not otherwise. I'd go back and look at them more closely but it seems like every time I do that during D1 I just end up confbias-ing and tunneling on the person I'm looking at. I'd rather not do that twice in the same game. And I'm not starting a new train because we've got seven people with votes on them already and I don't know who I'd vote for anyway.

[The Young Pyromancer]

Uh, forgot this was a thing. Whoops.

Catching up now.

[Quivil]

38 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

Current VC:
Reading (2): Araris, Fifth
Striker (2): Pyro, Matrim
Stick (1): XP
Illwei (3): Maill, Striker, Illwei
Quinn (2): Dannex, Tani
Pyro (1): Bard
Books (1): Gears

Great, so, things. Given that we've got about 14 hours left in the cycle, it's probably a bad thing that the votes are so spread out. Because ties result in no one dying, and we could easily end up with a tie here depending on who moves last-minute, if anyone, and who any vote-manippers may choose to target. 

First of all, @Illwei you forgot to retract your vote on TJ before you voted yourself, which iirc is a thing that Kas... recommends? requires? idk but anyway.

Second of all, would appreciate it if you unvote yourself please and thanks. If the purpose of the vote was to convince me you're vil, it definitely worked, especially since I was wavering anyway. Your point has been made. I'm sorry for tunneling on you :P. I'll try not to do it again even though now I'm imagining the elim doc laughing at the ease with which I am pocketed.

Third of all, @Dannex are you really going to leave your vote on me? Over a joke? :P. And @Tani it would be nice of you to remove your vote from me too, if you feel like it 

I'm gonna stop using numbers now, but other things.

Uhhh let's go with Books because Gears made some good points about them and also process of elimination. By which I mean: 

I know I'm village and having stepped back a bit and looked at Illwei without so much tunnel vision I think she is too. Striker I'm vil-reading for his responses to the attacks on him. Reading, Stick, and Pyro are all null for me at this point, so I guess I would vote them in the event of a tie, but not otherwise. I'd go back and look at them more closely but it seems like every time I do that during D1 I just end up confbias-ing and tunneling on the person I'm looking at. I'd rather not do that twice in the same game. And I'm not starting a new train because we've got seven people with votes on them already and I don't know who I'd vote for anyway.

Okay. Quintessential, Shard of Reading.

The ducks don't like the duck wrangler, so I don't like him either

[StrikerEZ]

So...I’m not really suspicious of Reading at all. But I don’t want to hop to Books and just create a different 2-way tie. I would be open to exing Books though.

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

Okay, here are my reads just based on watching all of you go at it:

Village:
Gears (Giving good advice. More specifically, pointing out that the reasons for voting Illwei are confusing)
Illwei (For the first time in recent history)
Quinn (Can’t believe I have you as village with Illwei!)
Biplet (New player who seems confused. You’ll be okay, I promise. If it really comes down to it, punch my brother)
Ventyl (For obvious reasons, Seekers can confirm during the night)

Elim:
Books (This is only slightly, but they are the most suspicious. Something seemed off when I read their post earlier, and Gears helped me put my finger on it)
Maybe Striker (Could be distancing from Books? Idk, but I also want to think him and Biplet are the same alignment. But maybe Kas is satan and wants to watch them kill each other, who knows?)
Pyro (I can never read him as village, unless he’s mechanically proven to be. Not sure why though)
TJ Shade (They gotta be evil one day, right?)

Null:
Everybody else!

[Fifth Scholar]

3 hours ago, Quintessential said:

sighhh ik I definitely debated just unvoting but... heh yeah I shoulda just done that probably : P I... yeah okay Maill it occurred to me as I was posting that vote that Maill's a returning player but at that point it was too late so I just left it : P 

I think me tunneling D1 is basically a tradition at this point : P (Dannex in QF50, Matrim in LG73, TUO in MR48...)

Why the asterisk? I assume that read is conditional/less certain but some specifics would be nice :P.

(you don't have to respond now if you don't feel like it ig but I'm gonna forget to say stuff later if I don't do it now)

The asterisk is because I'm reading you as good for reasons I don't think are solid (a combination of tone / quantity of content / Stick's comment about how Elim!Quinn probably wouldn't say some of the things you said), so I'm leaving the asterisk there as a note to myself that I should look back into that trust read if I have the time  

3 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

 Glad to know both of us are very confusing and chaotic. Makes sense considering we’re brothers.

Also, just want to say that everything Illwei is doing does feel elim-y to me still. I will be keeping my vote on her. I watched the last MR, and while this isn’t the only reason I’m voting on her, her current post style and almost...defensiveness for awhile there feels very similar to how she played in that game. Plus what she’s posted in this game already is enough to make me elim-read her. 

EDIT: to clarify: the things she’s doing in this game are the reason why I’m voting for her. The stuff with the last game is just the cherry on top to add context.

Your last statement there is quite vague; I understand the meta reasoning, I guess, but what has she "posted in this game" that specifically merits suspicion from a non-meta angle? From what you've said here I have no clear idea why you're voting for Illwei  

2 hours ago, Mailliw73 said:

Yeah, why does Quinn have the asterisk?

Fair, I'll be honest, I only skim Fifth's. At least in this game but that's because there's a new page like every time I reload this. Like 4 or 5 posts each from Illwei and Quinn every time.

See above.  

Yeah, I don't blame you. A lot of the multiquoting is documentation for myself as to what I thought about certain players at certain times, so I don't blame you if you don't find it terribly edifying.

2 hours ago, Ashbringer said:

Generally Elim teams are never all one "group". Some newer players (either just-joined new or only-a-few-games new) and some more experienced players. I wouldn't be surprised if for this game it's also split between newer, mid-gen, and the much older players.

That being said, I really don't like trying to out-meta the Elim team distribution. It works, but 1) it's really sucky for someone to get voted out for being experienced or inexperienced in lieu of actual evidence, (especially because experienced players also get more often fear-killed); and 2) I could definitely see some GMs making a small team with a lot of the experienced players or a large team without them (especially Kas with the former ).

So, pretty much any experience level can be an Elim. Basing suspicions on experience isn't the best without more things to be suspicious of, though.

 

That that being said, both the voters and the Elim kills usually have a unspoken rule of not killing new players or returning experienced players for the first 2-3 cycles. But this game has so many of both that that may prove difficult... and D1 votes are usually guided by these and other meta-reasons anyways.

Aaaand this topic is a page old already. Oh well.

+1 to basically all of this, and don't worry about stuff being a page old. With the current speed of the thread I'm happy to keep up in any way I can  

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Miscellaneous:

-I see Illwei as village. They’re always defensive, their tone seems how I think their village tone is. They were a lot more panicked when elim, trust me :P. Not loving this exe.

-I also tentatively see Quinn as village.

-I have developed a gut against Maill, so that exists :P. And my trust of Stick has dissolved into paranoid trust.

-Tani I think could be evil

-Still think Striker is evil, so there :P.

-Biplet seems good 

This...is the oddest combination of reads I've seen today but I'll allow it  Interested in your takes on Maill and Tani, if you want to elaborate on either of those. I'd been seeing them as village and null respectively, so I'm curious what's making you take almost the opposite view.

2 hours ago, Gears said:

[Future Gears here, I was rereading this post and realised that my tone was very snappish, and for that, I apologise. I do not mean to offend. I'm not even upset right now, so I don't know why the tone is so miffed here. Also, I was ninja'd a lot, so if any points have been rendered obsolete, ignore them]

OK, I've been trying to do a post-by-post, but it was eaten three times, so I concede. General opinions: Negative opinion of Books in hindsight, Illwei and Quinn both seem reasonably fine, Quinn's reasons are terrible [joking about being elim? Changing votes mid-post? The second one's happened before MR48], Maia's reasons are just about them arguing which happens a lot so means nothing, Striker's and Biplet's reasoning is that Illwei is frustrated about terrible reasoning which is also not very good reasoning. Illwei PoV: You're just being your regular self, and someone keeps saying you're elim-y because of ridiculous meta reasons, and then someone else who hasn't even played with you before cites those same meta reasons to vote for you, and then someone votes you for being frustrated about being voted on, and everything is locked between you and Quinn for some reason even though there's no reason for that. Why is anyone even voting Illwei? Defensiveness? Quinn, you're paranoid and tunneling. Give me a genuine reason for elim!Illwei that doesn't boil down to MR48. One cannot extrapolate a meta from a single data point. 

The only person I can remember being suspicious of is Flyingbooks for their Striker points [yes, this is an opinion change from earlier, them formulating an opinion after Stick's questioning was odd. Also, I'm voting D1? Wow. Maybe this is the Twilight Zone game]. Illwei and Quinn are being their standard selves [and if either of you are elim, I'll kill you later, but nothing so far has made me suspect you]. Let's let go of the meta reasons for now and consider what has happened here. It doesn't have to be a thunderdome. [And Fifth, my opinion change to match yours was concerning to me as well. People agreeing with me makes me nervous.] Quinn accused Illwei based on meta reasoning that does not hold water. Maia, unused to the chaos demon, voted on them as well. Quinn and Illwei have been arguing about tunneling and meta reasoning. They do that a lot. It's perfectly normal. 

Other points in the post-by-post that died a horrible, painful death: Striker is noted but not particularly suspicious, Stick seems fine, Ventyl claims seem fine as well, Maia is noted, Tani is noted but new, Order's earlier comments felt wrong for some reason, positive opinion of Fifth [though agreement makes me paranoid], the Game Master is always evil, 

*ninja'd by a million people*

Well thanks. I do think that people tend to frame things around the first votes, but that's mostly because there's far more discussion around the people being voted on than about anything else. We do have a tendency to trap ourselves in unnecessary cages. Let's try and avoid that. Why is it between Quinn and Illwei? Because they're arguing? Can two villagers not argue? I want everyone currently voting to lay out their reasons for voting in full detail and any other suspicions you currently possess. I'm voting Books because of their immediate formulation of an opinion on Striker after being pressed by Stick and their rejection of perfectly sound points. Other possible candidates: .....I don't really know. 

Illwei, are you OK? 

And Quinn just retracted, I'm sure a lot of my points are invalidated by that, so I'm going to hit post before another million ninjas make me commit seppuku.

Feel you on the deleted multiquotes and ninja'ing, you're not the only one struggling with that.  You take an interesting and strong stand on Illwei's shrekking, and I agree with most of it, but would qualify it by saying that Illwei has done nothing to earn trust so far, I just think the logic or lack thereof behind her shrekking makes her a bad lynch target for someone so active, and discussion becoming a whirlpool around her is unproductive in a 28-player game. 

It is kind of interesting how our reads have basically converged. I'd be happy to join you on Books, as I was suspicious of him earlier for basically the same reasons, but Shard is less active than he is and still drew my ire earlier, so I'm going with him for now. I would like to commend you for this post, though, as it made me laugh.  

If more people could vote in the next hour or so, so that I actually have the opportunity to see who's getting shrekked instead of finding out when I wake up, that'd also be great  

[The Young Pyromancer]

What's with the heat on books?

[Mat]

Striker's still my first choice, but I'm fine with Books. I won't move my vote.

• Reading (3): Araris, Fifth, Tani
• Striker (2): Pyro, Mat
• Stick (1): Exp
• Illwei (3): Maill, Striker, Illwei
• Pyro (1): Bard 
• Books (3): Gears, Quinn, Ventyl

Just now, Fifth Scholar said:

This...is the oddest combination of reads I've seen today but I'll allow it  Interested in your takes on Maill and Tani, if you want to elaborate on either of those. I'd been seeing them as village and null respectively, so I'm curious what's making you take almost the opposite view.

Hey, it was labeled as 'miscellaneous'  and I was on my way home, on mobile.

• Tani: It's interesting to me that Illwei mentioned their voting patterns feeling uncoached- I honestly got the opposite vibe. Same with their switch just now. To me feels like they're being directed, somewhat.
• Maill: I'm more inclined to think of it as a generational difference now, but that truly was just gut. Mostly ignoring it for now, or until later.

Rollover happens to be 7am my time, but I get up early  I won't be around for much of tonight, but I will be sub-available for roughly the next 3.5 hours, and then for the last 30 minutes before turn end.

[|TJ|]

So I'm been a bit down last the couple of days, and I'm just... struggling to completely catch up with the thread and just procrastinating. Give me some time to catch up with it, I'll make a multi-quote post before the end of the cycle.[/blue]

[Flyingbooks]

3 hours ago, Gears said:

I'm voting Books because of their immediate formulation of an opinion on Striker after being pressed by Stick and their rejection of perfectly sound points

1. I formulated an opinion quickly after being questioned because that made me think about the situation more

2. Which specific perfectly sound points did I reject?

Rollover is 7am my time and I probably won't wake up that early, so if you're going to vote on me please do it in the next couple of hours so that I can actually respond and defend myself.

[Gears]

50 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Feel you on the deleted multiquotes and ninja'ing, you're not the only one struggling with that.  You take an interesting and strong stand on Illwei's shrekking, and I agree with most of it, but would qualify it by saying that Illwei has done nothing to earn trust so far, I just think the logic or lack thereof behind her shrekking makes her a bad lynch target for someone so active, and discussion becoming a whirlpool around her is unproductive in a 28-player game. 

It is kind of interesting how our reads have basically converged. I'd be happy to join you on Books, as I was suspicious of him earlier for basically the same reasons, but Shard is less active than he is and still drew my ire earlier, so I'm going with him for now. I would like to commend you for this post, though, as it made me laugh.  

I do agree about Illwei trust, or lack thereof. I just don't think their X makes any sense given the reasons laid out. 

46 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

What's with the heat on books?

Their earlier Striker points. They completely invalidated Striker's valid points and formulated an opinion quite quickly when Stick questioned them.

41 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Striker's still my first choice, but I'm fine with Books. I won't move my vote.

• Reading (3): Araris, Fifth, Tani
• Striker (2): Pyro, Mat
• Stick (1): Exp
• Illwei (3): Maill, Striker, Illwei
• Pyro (1): Bard 
• Books (3): Gears, Quinn, Ventyl

I would prefer you to vote to prevent this unfortunate 3-way tie, and I don't particularly understand the Striker position, but your stance is acknowledged.

11 minutes ago, Flyingbooks said:

1. I formulated an opinion quickly after being questioned because that made me think about the situation more

2. Which specific perfectly sound points did I reject?

1. I can understand this, but I personally find the immediate formulation of an opinion after questioning to be slightly suspicious [and that's not something you can argue against, and I apologise for that since receiving arguments that I cannot contest always annoys me, but that's just my opinion.

2. I phrased this badly. I mean that you declared sound points to be "bad ideas". You found the following parts of Striker's post to be "bad ideas":

On 2/26/2021 at 0:17 PM, Flyingbooks said:

• Voting on Gears because the analysis felt too forced even though it was most likely pre-written
• Suggesting very frequent coinshot kills. That's extremely unlikely to work out well this early in the game
• Suggesting that Seekers immediately trust people who register as villagers. He said that he forgot about copperclouds, but it still seems fishy to me

Voting for a weak reason early D1 is perfectly normal and practically expected. Frequent murder is also fine and is a valid strategy. This third point is actually worthy of note, but forgetting the rules isn't inherently suspicious. For some people it's been a week since they've read the rules. You use the 'prevalence' of poor reasoning as justification for both your suspicions of Striker and your TWTBAW village read of Striker, framing all of the points maliciously, as though all of them are "bad" and "wrong" and suspicious. Your reasoning for your read of Striker is that their points are too suspicious to be elimy, yes? [And the fact that your reasoning both for and against Striker is a whole other issue, which also bothers me since your decision to village read Striker seems arbitrary and predicates on them being overly suspicious with bad points when their points are just fine and it seems like you could have elim read them just as easily] But their points are quite fine, except for the Seeker one. Your reasoning seems fundamentally flawed and a bit strange. [And I do realise that finding you guilty for faulty reasoning is bitterly humorous, but alas, I have no other targets. Point me to someone you find unworthy, and perhaps my mind may change]

[Mat]

5 minutes ago, Gears said:

I would prefer you to vote to prevent this unfortunate 3-way tie, and I don't particularly understand the Striker position, but your stance is acknowledged.

I’ll break the tie in the morning if I absolutely need to; I’d rather do that than keep my vote.

I also just realized that Books’ reasoning that is getting them exed is merely an exaggerated explanation of why I originally voted Striker. Not sure what to think about that but I don’t think I’m as okay with killing them today.

[---]

Hi

Illwei went and took a break and hopefully Chillwei is here to stay

(Edit: this first bit was at quinn. I had quoted a post...it...

...er...

Disappeared???)

Why is she now village reading me??? Even though she was like “I was just in a tunnel, now I’m out, pog!”
I do think that if she was an Elim she would stick with it rather than switch off: example in QF50

I still don’t think Books is an Elim. They felt very genuine in their thoughts/progressions earlier and I think they’re a lot more...stiff? as an Elim?
I've talked to Mat about this- and- I don't understand Mat saying? he's okay? with killing books?

EDIT:

Oh look two posts i didn't see

Uh okay that's cool mat

uh If im honest I can't bring myself to read the block of text at the bottom of Gears' post someone wanna summarize it for me?

Edited February 28, 2021 by Illwei

[Stick.]

Good morning

4 new pages  Excellent

So here are the reads I promised:

Village:

- Quinn: for reasons mentioned earlier

- Dannex: for reasons mentioned earlier

- Reading: despite being initially suspicious of Reading, after rereading their posts they seem genuine and I'm tentatively convinced they're village. One thing that stood out to me was how they were one of the first people to post right after the thread went up, and I can't say this applies to all but during my first few elim games I was never so quick to post, much less so about the elim team distribution.

- Stink: Seems village in PM, I dont know lol

- Elandera: very interesting new playstyle! I think she's village (but uncertain still)

Elim:

- FlyingBooks: talked about this before, and people have reiterated my reasons too 

- Tani: just the odd votes

- Randby: might just be a new player being cautious by holding on to their vote for now and that's fine, but I'm definitely keeping an eye

- Mat: their fixation on Striker is interesting, but what sets off alarms for me is:

1 hour ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Striker's still my first choice, but I'm fine with Books. I won't move my vote

Opinion but no action, which could be elim!Mat attempting to distance themself from Books without actually shifting their vote. I think Books' flip could reveal quite a bit here I think. FlyingBooks here we go again

- Experience: they posted a summary of everything that every person every posted (thanks!), in which they seemed to be pretty suspicious of Quinn, as Mat noted. They have posted twice since then, only one of which was AI, changing their read on Quinn and casting suspcion on Tani. Something about that whole thing seems off to me, but not enough so to warrant a vote (for now). 

 

[---]

2 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

So here are the reads I promised:

I have 33 posts, and yet you don't...have a read on me? If you're trying to avoid something let me know there :P.

[Quivil]

28 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Good morning

4 new pages  Excellent

So here are the reads I promised:

Elim:

- Tani: just the odd votes

I'm voting randomly because I don't actually want anyone to die this round, and especially not because of me.

I want to get night info before we start killing people

Whenever I play Avalon I'm always, ALWAYS silly for the first few rounds - when there's not much info - and serious later.

I'm a Villager. Scan me.

Edited February 28, 2021 by Tani

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Ventyl's claim might not have been smart, but it's likely that he's telling the truth or at least that he's not an elim. Even if he gets scanned as vanilla villager I wouldn't go immediately to gambitting elim.

I believe Striker could have forgotten that a smoked individual would scan as a vanilla villager, since that's a new rule for this game.

I don't think Books has played in a game with an infinite village kill role so I don't think there's precedent either way for not wanting to see the Coinshots kill every night. i do think killing every cycle is generally a good thing.

Illwei exe is cooling down. They're defensive, but I think that's an Illwei thing since LG 73 Illwei was also aggressive/dismissive in defending themself D2. She's still self-voting; not sure why. Perhaps because she doesn't want to vote for Books, who's a main alternative.

Ties at this point are fine. i do expect there to be less last minute voting than usual in this game because of when rollover is.

I don't remember a lot of what Reading has done to provoke three votes. Looks like wants village Smokers to keep their clouds down, thinks Stick might be vanilla as part of not believing people would roleclaim so early. I don't think that's any particular reason to vote Reading over anyone else. I know Araris at least doesn't unvote D1 unless there's a good reason not to, and there isn't any particular reason Reading is village either.

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Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Perhaps because she doesn't want to vote for Books, who's a main alternative

I don't want to vote books,

and...i...

I also think I messed up my voting

and

i don't know

how to

fix it

so

uh