THE ULTIMATE METAL COUNT

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

But wouldn't alloying a third metal be a new alloy? Also, the WoB unfortunately doesn't clarify wether they are talking viability or not.

Yes it would, but it would not be another Atium+iron alloy.

Why would he not be speaking of viable metals?

[IlstrawberrySeed]

OK, I guess I need to ask him to clarify the WoB, because you make valid points. Because he doesn't always have the best context for the questions, especially if they are rapid fire.

[danex]

I don’t think a hemalurgically/feruchemically charged metal counts as a different metal. it might have an additional affect when burned, but it’s still the same metal it was before it was charged.

[Frustration]

18 minutes ago, dannnnnex said:

I don’t think a hemalurgically/feruchemically charged metal counts as a different metal. it might have an additional affect when burned, but it’s still the same metal it was before it was charged.

Technically yes, but Sazed described it as a new personal metal at the end of TFE, so I'd count it.

[nyxvoid]

Spoiler

 in TLM we saw some mistings burned pure form of investiture ( I think Dor) .

6 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

• •  
• Aether crystals and other pure investiture that aren't metals are not allomantically viable.
  • All metalic pure investiture is shardic in nature.

. I think that pure form of investiture is at least viable to allomancers along with all other magical people but they will power their own abilities ,not get new abilities even if it is pure investiture .

and they didn't get additional abilities like they might have like if  they would had burned metalic Dor . this is rather strange. BS said that all god metals are allomantically viable to anyone ... and would give some abilities . why  Liquid Form of pure god investiture Dor wouldn't give abilities when metallic form of pure god investiture would give abilities? and also why only investiture in metal form is burnable for everyone ?

i read above discussion . making alloys with god metals and their composition is what would make total number of allomantic metals so big. that indeed would essentially renders metallic arts as soft magic. 

if this comes to reality in cosmere then each person will have different abilities and categorizing all that would be..... impossible . i am seeing a huge number, indeed.

But i have high hopes that BS will utilize his near infinite cleverness and keep number of allomantic metals low . this may happen in many ways . i don't have enough information to be sure .

but he may say that a person of scardail cannot use Roshar based god metal alloys or some other limit using identity and connection . or something else.

 

 

I hope that he would not do easy thing to keep metallic arts too unwieldy :  allowing people access to only some of all possible  alloys . 

that being said god metals are rather hard to achive . and even when we do get one god metal it may not make alloy that we want  or make an alloy that can't be swallowed or burned in other ways.

---like harmonium can't be burned by anyone because it would explode when in contact with water.( explode in your mouth or in stomach )

---it might be technically possible to make a  god metal alloy . but maybe in practical , that god metal may chemically react with ordinary metal in question so turn into some useless alloy .

also we haven't seen  many god metal alloys and there might be a possibility that only Shards can creat some basic alloys.

---like atium in final empire . it was naturally occurring due to Shards on scardial. we did supposedly saw someone making eleveth metal that Kelsier later obtained , but it was an alloy of atium ( an alloy in itself ) and one other metal. 

what i am saying that what if only shards can do god metal alloys(of one god metal + one normal metal ) exclusively . and then humans could later use that binary god metal alloy to make tertiary and further alloys by adding normal metals . their composition would be hars to find by simply fiddling through combinations . more metals in an alloys , harder combinations would be to find.

BS will find constraints for metallic arts .

i hope.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2023 by nyxvoid

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, nyxvoid said:

 

TLM spoilers aren't allowed here.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

Also, Malatium isn’t an alloy with Atium-Electrum, but rather a partial refinement. Still, I get what you are saying, how it should be easier to alloy/refine shard metal alloys than the original shard metal.

As for the TLM spoiler

Spoiler

I think it has to do with how it was unkeyed from the identity of the shard.

 

[Frustration]

So...

Spoiler

Nethseäar

Can you burn or Feruchemically fill molten metal? Assuming, you know, that was something you wanted to do.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you should be able to but that would be very nasty.

Nethseäar

Would it affect the Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it would affect the Investiture.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6217

 

 

 

 

Molten metals are different.

Looks like we need to double Mistnumber.

[danex]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

So...

  Reveal hidden contents

Nethseäar

Can you burn or Feruchemically fill molten metal? Assuming, you know, that was something you wanted to do.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you should be able to but that would be very nasty.

Nethseäar

Would it affect the Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it would affect the Investiture.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6217

 

 

 

 

Molten metals are different.

Looks like we need to double Mistnumber.

nah, mistnumber is the number of metals not number of effects. a molten metal would have a different effect, as per that WoB, but the metal is chemically the same as it would be non-molten.

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, dannnnnex said:

nah, mistnumber is the number of metals not number of effects. a molten metal would have a different effect, as per that WoB, but the metal is chemically the same as it would be non-molten.

technically they are chemically different because they aren't bonded when molten

Let me have big numbers Dannnnex.

[danex]

31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

technically they are chemically different because they aren't bonded when molten

in that case they'd be already accounted for, because every alloy'd metal has its alloys already included in the mistnumber

31 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Let me have big numbers Dannnnex.

what, 13 thousand digits (or whatever it is currently) isnt enough for you? 

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, dannnnnex said:

what, 13 thousand digits (or whatever it is currently) isnt enough for you? 

I'm honestly just seeing how high it can go right now.

I can't even say I'm numb at this point, every time I think about it my brain stops working, and yet I can't stop.

[alder24]

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

Molten metals are different.

Looks like we need to double Mistnumber.

If molten metals should be included then how about plasma? How about superconductors? Aluminum is a superconductor. It's just a thought for you.

[MangoBoi101]

so whats the final number (I got lost around page 3)

[Frustration]

59 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said:

so whats the final number (I got lost around page 3)

Currently?

It's around (1.703*1019000*X*S*V)+16*3*2*

Where X is an unknown number above 16 and less than infinity

S is a completely unknown number, repreenting the number of possibe intents of Shards

And V is the number of ways that vessles can change shardmetals

Edited February 6, 2023 by Frustration

[alder24]

20 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Currently?

It's around 1.703*1019000*3*2*X*S*V

Where X is an unknown number above 16 and less than infinity

S is a completely unknown number, repreenting the number of possibe intents of Shards

And V is the number of ways that vessles can change shardmetals

So it's closing on infinity?

[Frustration]

On 2/6/2023 at 8:52 AM, alder24 said:

So it's closing on infinity?

Somewhere around there.

 

Edit: also Shards can apparently just make new metals if they want

Spoiler

classicalkhlennium

Could a Shard like Harmony create new elemental metals, like harmonium, or is that unconscious--

Brandon Sanderson

So, unconscious isn't the right word, but a manifestation of his will being the same as manifestation of the laws of physics in the world, if that makes sense. It's not like a choice, it's not, like, not a choice either, to create others, it is theoretically possible, but what has happened is more in line with the laws of his realm.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/172/#e8567

Edit: x2, someone else pls post.

Shards can possibly have more than one metal.

Spoiler

Questioner

Does every Shard, of divinity so to speak, have a metal associated to it?

Brandon Sanderson

They all have at least one.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367/#e11776

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Frustration

[MangoBoi101]

wow.....

Thats a lot of metals,

So another question, Could a mistborn burn all of them?

likewise could a Fermachist Tap/Store with all of them?

[alder24]

52 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said:

wow.....

Thats a lot of metals,

So another question, Could a mistborn burn all of them?

likewise could a Fermachist Tap/Store with all of them?

Probably not. Because of Connection. I believe that any Lerasium alloy could be burned as Lerasium forms a connection and rewrites spiritual DNA, but all other metals wouldn't be burnable without taking some few more steps. The same with Feruchemy.

Spoiler

word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)

 

Spoiler

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008)

 

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

What will an Atium-Lerasium Alloy do ?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Ah, I've been asked this before. There are a number of theories, but nobody's really sure, since there haven't really been any opportunities to alloy lerasium with atium. You can choose which one to believe. Most require an understanding of realmatic theory to comprehend, which you need to be a Shard or Splinter to even begin to understand.What Lerasium is, is essentially a hack for something like your spiritual DNA. It rewrites what your spiritual self is capable of. So, combined with atium, which allows you a glimpse into the vision of everything - past, present, future - the theories say it could do one of two things. It could either create a substance so volatile that it would have world-ending repercussions, or rewrite your "spiritual DNA" (his phrase, not mine) with atium's power. Is that a vague enough answer?

TWG Posts (March 23, 2010)

 

[Frustration]

I wonder if Harmonium oxide would be useable.

Spoiler

Rhapsody (paraphrased)

You have described ettmetal as some kind of super-cesium. After the reaction with water, is there residual ettmetal hydroxide and what are its properties?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, there is. There's the potential they'll find it and use it, but as far as the properties are concerned, you get a RAFO.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390/#e12680

 

 

 

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Frustration said:

I wonder if Harmonium oxide would be useable.

Could this be a way to safely swallow and burn Harmonium?

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Could this be a way to safely swallow and burn Harmonium?

Might be.

[cometaryorbit]

That would be super weird, because metal oxides are not really metals anywhere else in the Metallic Arts.

[Frustration]

8 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

That would be super weird, because metal oxides are not really metals anywhere else in the Metallic Arts.

Well steel is the only metal/non-metal alloy that works, and Harmonium is a shard metal.

[ZenBossanova]

I have been thinking about combinations of God metals. 

If we sum all possible combinations of 1,2, 3 and up to 16 metals, we get 65535 different combinations, which is a lot of different magic systems for us. 

Unless Discordium exists. Then the number goes way up. Then we have to count the number of connections between shards. The number of connections between n = 16 shards is n*(n-1)/2 = 120.

So the number of God metal alloys from 16 God metals is 2^120 = 1.3 *10^36

Which is the right alloy? If Hoid wants to find one particular alloy, and if he can look at a million alloys a second, and there are about 3*10^7 seconds in a year, then it will take him about 4 * 10^22 years to find the right one. That is  40 million million billion years. Our own universe is about 13.8 billion  years old, so this would be a million million times that amount of time. 

Getting the God Metals might be the easy part. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by ZenBossanova