IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 25, 2023 Posted February 25, 2023 5 hours ago, ZenBossanova said: I have been thinking about combinations of God metals. If we sum all possible combinations of 1,2, 3 and up to 16 metals, we get 65535 different combinations, which is a lot of different magic systems for us. Unless Discordium exists. Then the number goes way up. Then we have to count the number of connections between shards. The number of connections between n = 16 shards is n*(n-1)/2 = 120. So the number of God metal alloys from 16 God metals is 2^120 = 1.3 *10^36 Which is the right alloy? If Hoid wants to find one particular alloy, and if he can look at a million alloys a second, and there are about 3*10^7 seconds in a year, then it will take him about 4 * 10^22 years to find the right one. That is 40 million million billion years. Our own universe is about 13.8 billion years old, so this would be a million million times that amount of time. Getting the God Metals might be the easy part. If we say that shard combanations have 1 metal, and if they change intent all previously made metal changes with it, then there are 65535 (your number) potential shardmetals. Run the calculation again, add 1, multiply it by some number over 17 but less than infinity, and subtract 1. That is the number of metals, if each shard has 1 metal (darn you @Frustration, I want a number, not for it to keep climbing. The number of possible metals has potentially drastic effects on my eclectic ttrpg system), puts the number at a nice and large 19 thousand digits. You can see my post above for the full 19 thousand digits, and the calculations. (Of course, I figured a simpler calculation out - and feel dumb for not seeing it earlier. I'll leave that as an excersize for the reader.) Of course, this is the number of metals, not effects. For allomancy, you need to figure out if improper fuerochemical/hemalurgic attunement matters (for example, burning pewter that had the tin charged, or burning tin that was purified from charged pewter) add 1, (Booleans are calculated as 1 or 0) Multiply by 3 + the number of charged impurities that don't cost viability, and multiply that by 2. Than find the combo number of that many booleans. That gets multiplied by the 19 thousand digit number for allomancy. For fuerochemistry and hemalugy, same thing, but all instances of 3 are actually instances of 2. (variables can still equal 3)
Frustration Posted February 25, 2023 Posted February 25, 2023 1 hour ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: (darn you @Frustration, I want a number, not for it to keep climbing. hehe. So, you know how earlier I pointed out that feruchemically and hemalurgically charged metals would have differetn effects. Well, you can do both to the same piece of metal. Which adds another way to manipulate them. Help, I can't stop making an already infinate number bigger
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 25, 2023 Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) On 2/25/2023 at 1:50 PM, Frustration said: hehe. So, you know how earlier I pointed out that feruchemically and hemalurgically charged metals would have differetn effects. Well, you can do both to the same piece of metal. Which adds another way to manipulate them. Help, I can't stop making an already infinate number bigger I already acounted for that in the message you quoted. Along with the the fact you can add invested impurities and that one can do it in 2 states. I'm leaving the 19,000 digit number alone though because that's based on metals not abilities. Edited February 27, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed deleted incorect formula
MangoBoi101 he/him Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) On 2/25/2023 at 5:28 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said: ((Improper charges? [0 or 1] +1 )(charges [A3 or F1 or H1] [fuerochemistry + Hemalurgy + both] ) + (Charged impurities)(3 [F+H+both])) * (2 [states]). Imput that to the function detailed on my first comment here, and that is the ability modifier that I know of. (Multiply it to the 19 thousand digit number to find the amount of A/F/H abilities.) Of course hemalurgy has more than 1 ability on average per spike, and we cannot calculate it. That right there is a new language.... can someone translate this to english please. I dont speak math and google translate does nothing. Edited February 27, 2023 by MangoBoi101
Frustration Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 1 hour ago, MangoBoi101 said: That right there is a new language.... can someone translate this to english please. I dont speak math and google translate does nothing. Translation: Mind numbingly large number. 1
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 2 hours ago, MangoBoi101 said: That right there is a new language.... can someone translate this to english please. I dont speak math and google translate does nothing. 1 hour ago, Frustration said: Translation: Mind numbingly large number. That formula is wrong, it cannot be generalized without averages, as each individual metal has different inputs, and we don't even know all the variables for the base metals.
MangoBoi101 he/him Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 um.... so what exactly do we do with this info?
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said: um.... so what exactly do we do with this info? We ignore it and work purely on the number of metals, knowing that the number of abilities is roughly magnitudes higher equal to the number of metals tetrated to itself. Edited February 27, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed how do you spell tetrated?
Frustration Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said: um.... so what exactly do we do with this info? We make the number even more mind numbingly large for the fun of it.
ZenBossanova Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 Alternatively, we don't put a number on it. No one asks what the total number of molecules is, because there is no limit. And what do we do with metal with aether dust in it? Gemstone dust? White Sand? These would not technically be alloys, but they are interesting combinations. At this point, we should talk about Fabrial Engineering or Alchemical Engineering, and which combinations have useful properties.
Frustration Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, ZenBossanova said: And what do we do with metal with aether dust in it? Gemstone dust? White Sand? These would not technically be alloys, but they are interesting combinations. That wouldn't have any effect.
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, Frustration said: That wouldn't have any effect. Then neither would having charged necrosil in your tin, which vastly simplifies the formula, but is still inposible to calculate with what we currently know, or by hand with all the knowledge required.
Frustration Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 Just now, IlstrawberrySeed said: Then neither would having charged necrosil in your tin, which vastly simplifies the formula, but is still inposible to calculate with what we currently know, or by hand with all the knowledge required. Charged nicrosil would have an effect, as all feruchemical charges do. But Gemstones and sand would not.
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, Frustration said: Charged nicrosil would have an effect, as all feruchemical charges do. But Gemstones and sand would not. OK.
ZenBossanova Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 Gemstone/metal combinations were clearly important for Spoiler Fabrials Why the distinction between blends of metals versus metals and non-metals? Metals blend more uniformly, usually, but not always. (looking at you, Trellium)
Frustration Posted February 27, 2023 Posted February 27, 2023 1 minute ago, ZenBossanova said: Gemstone/metal combinations were clearly important for Reveal hidden contents Fabrials Why the distinction between blends of metals versus metals and non-metals? Metals blend more uniformly, usually, but not always. (looking at you, Trellium) We aren't talking about fabrials. This thread is strictly for the number of metals with allomantic effects.
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Frustration said: We aren't talking about fabrials. This thread is strictly for the number of metals with allomantic effects. As far as we know, the number of allomantic effects is equivelent to fabrial effects (metal effects on a fabrial), which are rouphly double fuerochemical/hemalurgic effects, which over twice the number of metals. Edited February 28, 2023 by IlstrawberrySeed
Frustration Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: As far as we know, the number of allomantic effects is equivelent to fabrial effects (metal effects on a fabrial), which are rouphly double fuerochemical/hemalurgic effects, which over twice the number of metals. There are more fabrial metals Spoiler Pagerunner Are there ten metals (and their respective alloys) that can be used in fabrials? The eight allomantic pure metals, silver, and then one more? Brandon Sanderson There are more than 10. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)
MangoBoi101 he/him Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 11 hours ago, Frustration said: There are more fabrial metals Reveal hidden contents Pagerunner Are there ten metals (and their respective alloys) that can be used in fabrials? The eight allomantic pure metals, silver, and then one more? Brandon Sanderson There are more than 10. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Frustration your scaring me a lot, what are fabrials? (sry the only cosmere related books of brandons are the mistborn series 1 and 2)
alder24 Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 52 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said: Frustration your scaring me a lot, what are fabrials? (sry the only cosmere related books of brandons are the mistborn series 1 and 2) It's stuff from the Stormlight Archive, and I can't see how this have anything in common with this allomantic metal count. Did you guys included feruchemically charged metals? All god metals and their alloys maybe can be used as a metalminds which can be burned and therefore be a "new" metal. But that's like x2 only I think. Still, bigger number.
Frustration Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 2 hours ago, alder24 said: Did you guys included feruchemically charged metals? All god metals and their alloys maybe can be used as a metalminds which can be burned and therefore be a "new" metal. But that's like x2 only I think. Still, bigger number. We did, we also included hemalurgically, and Feruchemically+hemalurgically charged metals
MangoBoi101 he/him Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Frustration said: We did, we also included hemalurgically, and Feruchemically+hemalurgically charged metals So what is the final count? I want a NUMBER frustration not a unreadable bunch of spam! (also do you like my new background?) Edited February 28, 2023 by MangoBoi101
Frustration Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, MangoBoi101 said: So what is the final count? I want a NUMBER frustration not a unreadable bunch of spam! The Number is an unreadable bunch of spam. 16+(4*S*X*1.70x 1019729) Where S is the number of metals a shard can make, including vessel impact on it, and X is a number above 16, and less than infinite. 1
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 4 hours ago, alder24 said: Did you guys included feruchemically charged metals? All god metals and their alloys maybe can be used as a metalminds which can be burned and therefore be a "new" metal. But that's like x2 only I think. Still, bigger number. The 19 thousand digit number is the numebr of metals if the aformentioned X = 6, S=1, and is only the number of metals, not number of effects, so does not acount for fuerochemistry or hemalurgy in any way. The real formula for effects is something that I cannot even comprend, since it requires calculating the number of effects in MSA (magic system A) based on the number of effects in Magic System (B) for each metal in the alloy that it can be an alloy in, not the simple thing @Frustration put out. 16 hours ago, Frustration said: There are more fabrial metals Hide contents Pagerunner Are there ten metals (and their respective alloys) that can be used in fabrials? The eight allomantic pure metals, silver, and then one more? Brandon Sanderson There are more than 10. Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021) Silver is a fabrial metal? Is that confirmed or just implied as in the WoB? 2 hours ago, Frustration said: We did, we also included hemalurgically, and Feruchemically+hemalurgically charged metals Fabrials are a form of magitech, that should probably be spoilered, but it isn't important to the story at any function until about 4 interludes after you learn what they are. 59 minutes ago, Frustration said: The Number is an unreadable bunch of spam. 16+(4*S*X*1.70x 1019729) Where S is the number of metals a shard can make, including vessel impact on it, and X is a number above 16, and less than infinite. I don't understand the whole formula, but if 1.7x 10^19729 is the 19 thousand digit number, then the 16 isn't needed AFAIK. Also, it doesn't account for improper charges or charged impurities. Take Durilium: It can have coppermind, Durilium mind, Pewtermind, And possibly Aluminum Mind charges in it. And the same for hemalurgy. And that's if it's a perfect alloy and Shardmetals are not availiable. If you add in a singular shardmetal, then you get more than 17 aditional charges that can effect the Allomantic effect of Durilium.
MangoBoi101 he/him Posted February 28, 2023 Posted February 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: The real formula for effects is something that I cannot even comprend, since it requires calculating the number of effects in MSA (magic system A) based on the number of effects in Magic System (B) for each metal in the alloy that it can be an alloy in, hmmm.... ok look, can you try????? (I dont know what "cannot comprehend" means, I guess I cannot comprehend its meaning)
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