Jasnah Annotation

[Nathrangking he/him]

 

[Innovation]

Interesting. I should probably read WoK prime at some point... anyway, I’m glad to get some information on the character development of Jasnah and her sexual orientation. It’s fascinating to see into the mind of an author and how they made their books. 

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

I SCREAMED AND CLAPPED MY HANDS SO HARD THEY STILL HURT

I HAVEN'T EVEN READ THE CHAPTER YET BUT SHE'S ACE SHE'S ACE SHE'S FREAKING ACE HETEROROMANTIC AAAAAAAACE

MY CHILD, MY REPRESENTATION, I LOVE YOU, I KNEW YOU WERE MY FAVORITE CHARACTER

JASNAH IS FLIPPING ACE MY DUDES

AYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I WILL NEVER BE OVER THIS

A bit sad that she's not biromantic but ACE

I gotta frame this and put this on my wall hang on -

This is one of the best fandom moments for me, ever, this. Jasnah Kholin is asexual and he's consulting with people to write her right and he's not falling into stereotypes so far and he's such a good man and I might cry because QUEER MAIN CHARACTER, BABY!!!

I mean her book is super far away but we won't focus on that ;-;

also he said currently! as in sexualities are fluid! who needs grammar when my girl is ace!

best thing to come out of 2020

[Subvisual Haze]

Feels a bit like he's trying to have his identity cake and eat it too.  Jasnah was written to be a character who is private about her sexuality and doesn't want to be defined by it, this kind of undermines that intent.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

21 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Feels a bit like he's trying to have his identity cake and eat it too.  Jasnah was written to be a character who is private about her sexuality and doesn't want to be defined by it, this kind of undermines that intent.

She doesn't have to be defined by it for it to still be a part of her. That to me feels like saying "Kaladin isn't defined by his depression, so you shouldn't be happy that Brandon wrote that depression well and focus on that".

[Honorless he/him]

It does fit with her character. 

[Robot]

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

It does fit with her character. 

Trying to make Jasnah gay out of respect to the fans who wanted her to be gay feels weird to me.

[Schneeente]

Hmm... it might be an unpopular opinion but I'd have preferred her to be "regular". For me it feels forced to give her an uncommon sexuality even though I admit that she did seem uninterested in romantic affairs so far, BUT that could have had 100 different (better) explanations. 

For example it must be pretty hard for a woman like Jasnah to find a worthy partner. Jasnah - as we have seens with Amaram - does not do "political marriage". So she'd have to marry out of love, and for her it must be really tough to find such a person. Not only because she's filthy rich and powerful - thus she can never know if her partner might not just be after her money/power - she's also extremely intelligent and I don't picture her as someone who could be in a relationship with someone who is not intellectually on par with her. So her being hetero but because of her ... complicated status/lifestyle/philosophy she is still hoping the find the right one. I'd have preferred that because my experience tells me that this is far more likely. 

But well, now she's asexual, it's not like Brandon will make a big deal out of it - I hope.   

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Schneeente

[Honorless he/him]

55 minutes ago, Schneeente said:

Hmm... it might be an unpopular opinion but I'd have preferred her to be "regular".

Hmm, I think I understand what you mean, one doesn't need to be ace to be uninterested. It makes sense for Jasnah to be uninterested in pursuing relationships with everything that's on her plate and a long history of a lot of pressure to conform, which no matter how strong you are would make you a bit bitter.

[Robot]

4 hours ago, Debarra said:

Jasnah isn't gay though according to this. She's Asexual which is different from being gay. She's still queer though.

I was referring to the part where Brandon said he tried to make her gay this book out of respect for the fans who argued she was gay. I was going to quote but my phone is working up.

[Honorless he/him]

*sigh* He experimented with the aspects of Jasnah's character that he hadn't worked out yet. As he didn't have anything specific he needed her to be, he checked out whether she could be something that many of his fans wanted her to be. That isn't weird, that's just nice. Ultimately, he found something that worked for how he could see the character being and decided on going forwards with it, and informing his fans of that decision.

[Knight of Iron]

I'm just interested now that he's implying Jasnah and Hoid are actually together, considering I theorized otherwise previously.

[+Bliev she/her]

I appreciate this a lot. I love that he's being inclusive--thinking about the human experience broadly and how various types of people would live in this world he created. It speaks to how much he loves his worlds and his creations that he wants to represent the human experience in a wide variety of ways. I really appreciate how Jasnah has been written so far--and how thoughtful he is about the fandom, but also the authenticity of his characterization. He creates a character and then figures out--what makes them tick? Who would they be if they lived IRL, and how would they think? And when he feels that he doesn't have enough info to write it well, he does his research. 

I've been very happy to see him avoid the r/MenWritingWomen tropes that all of us women have seen emerge, sometimes particularly in fantasy. Turned me off of SOOOOO many fantasy writers as I grew up. 

[NameIess he/him]

3 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

I'm just interested now that he's implying Jasnah and Hoid are actually together, considering I theorized otherwise previously.

I think that he put this as a way of informing us that they aren't together, and the rumors are just rumors.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

10 hours ago, Robot said:

Trying to make Jasnah gay out of respect to the fans who wanted her to be gay feels weird to me.

I don’t see anything weird about it. He got feedback from fans and beta readers who went “I see some of myself in this aspect of the character” and decided to explore that aspect of her. Authors can make characters a specific sexuality for reasons other than appealing to a certain demographic. Maybe it’s needed for thematic, or plot reasons. Maybe it just feels right. Maybe he just wants to. 
 

Brandon listened to feedback from fans and beta readers and used it to inform how he wrote the character going forward. What more do you want?

[Robot]

4 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

I don’t see anything weird about it. He got feedback from fans and beta readers who went “I see some of myself in this aspect of the character” and decided to explore that aspect of her. Authors can make characters a specific sexuality for reasons other than appealing to a certain demographic. Maybe it’s needed for thematic, or plot reasons. Maybe it just feels right. Maybe he just wants to. 
 

Brandon listened to feedback from fans and beta readers and used it to inform how he wrote the character going forward. What more do you want?

I'm firmly in the camp that listening too much to fans is a terrible idea and that stories tend to suffer for it. In this particular case it was something small that doesn't matter in the larger stormlight picture, but him saying he considered changing something out of respect for fan theories isn't what I want to hear from an author.

 

He was a fan before an author though, so I think he has a decent grasp of when to listen and when to keep his ideas.

[Karger he/him]

1 hour ago, Robot said:

I'm firmly in the camp that listening too much to fans is a terrible idea and that stories tend to suffer for it. In this particular case it was something small that doesn't matter in the larger stormlight picture, but him saying he considered changing something out of respect for fan theories isn't what I want to hear from an author.

So in some ways that is correct.  As Hoid says trying to please everyone is like watering down soup.  Eventually you just get water.  Plenty of times(the most obvious example being the new star wars) this has been a mistake.  However I think if several people see something in a character that you missed and you try it out and find it works that is a good thing then the story is improved in my mind at least.  Trying at least be encouraged.  That is different from forcing through something that is not really working.  As to Jasnah being ace, I certainly always thought of her that way.  I kind of do like Shallasnah but I see it more as a student's crush rather then anything "real."  In any event Jasnah remains a well written character and it looks like Brandon is putting a lot of thought into her.  I am exited for the back five.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Karger

[Chaos he/him]

Hi all,

We have removed some off-topic things here, and would like to focus this discussion on Jasnah specifically.

We would also like to note to be respectful to asexual and other queer members. If you don't know much about aceness/queerness, it's a good opportunity to listen to other experiences that are not your own! Please remember that there are real people who are these orientations, including in this community and this thread/chat. Speaking about sexual orientations in negative terms or trying to dissect someone’s identity perpetuates stigma against those who identify as queer and is directly against the 17th Shard Code of Conduct. These comments have an effect that extends far beyond an internet post.

Thanks!

[Jofwu he/him]

7 hours ago, Karger said:

However I think if several people see something in a character that you missed and you try it out and find it works that is a good thing then the story is improved in my mind at least.

Well put. I trust Brandon well enough at this point to be highly skeptical that he would ever do anything just to please fans or meet expectations. He's writing the story he wants to right.

That doesn't mean he has every detail figured out from the start though. He has spoken plenty of times about how he outlines the plot carefully but let's the characters grow naturally.

So, whatever may have been originally intended, when readers start to make observations about a character that he didn't consider, he owes it to himself and the character to explore that idea. Maybe that's where the character is going, despite the original intent. That's not caving to pressure; it's just the writing process. (especially if some of that feedback is coming from beta readers, who are picked to give impressions precisely because Brandon likes having additional perspectives on what he is doing. Sometimes people see things about your work that you didn't realize were there.

I'm just glad he seems to have found a path for Jasnah that feels right to him. And I'm curious to see what it means for her character.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

I´m mostly just happy that Brandon found something he thinks works, and is sticking with it. It is good for him, for us, and for the story. 

[Malim he/him]

I love this.  It doesn't in any way feel a forced or token addition.  Instead it feels absolutely in character with what we have seen from Jasnah.

On a personal level, although I am what has traditionally been called a straight male, I do have a daughter who is openly Bi.  (And yes I asked her if it was ok to reveal that before I posted.)  I love it when there are characters in media that are nontraditional when it comes to sexuality and gender expression, and even more when, like Jasnah, it is an organic, non-forced, non-token inclusion, because it opens up more realms of discussion with my daughter.  It just makes me respect Brandon even more as a writer.

Too many times my daughter or I will read, or otherwise consume, a piece of media that has a non-binary character, and feel that it is, at best, a conscious effort to appear "woke," or pandering at worst.  This doesn't feel that way at all, and both my daughter and I are super hyped about it.

(I apologize if I have used any wrong or outdated terms to describe the topic.  I wont make any excuses except old age.)

 

[Kuoz he/him]

I kind of didn't like that he just said this is her orientation. Mainly because eventhough this is not in the book I'm more of a show don't tell, and honestly this is the kind of orientation that he could show in the narrative quite easily if he wanted, even without a Jasnah's POV (unlike Shallan who is already married and you need to see her inner reactions to other women if you want to realise she is bi). 

 

I don't know, I like it because it became obvious that is the perfect choice for the character once you see it, but I'd have preferred other way of knowing it. At the same time this is just my problem for consuming any piece of information about the Cosmere instead of only reading the books.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

6 hours ago, Kuoz said:

I kind of didn't like that he just said this is her orientation. Mainly because eventhough this is not in the book I'm more of a show don't tell, and honestly this is the kind of orientation that he could show in the narrative quite easily if he wanted, even without a Jasnah's POV (unlike Shallan who is already married and you need to see her inner reactions to other women if you want to realise she is bi). 

 

I don't know, I like it because it became obvious that is the perfect choice for the character once you see it, but I'd have preferred other way of knowing it. At the same time this is just my problem for consuming any piece of information about the Cosmere instead of only reading the books.

I mean, I assume it'll be touched on eventually in the books. But people keep asking him, so he decided to answer. 

[Leuthie]

10 hours ago, Kuoz said:

I kind of didn't like that he just said this is her orientation. Mainly because eventhough this is not in the book I'm more of a show don't tell, and honestly this is the kind of orientation that he could show in the narrative quite easily if he wanted, even without a Jasnah's POV (unlike Shallan who is already married and you need to see her inner reactions to other women if you want to realise she is bi). 

 

I don't know, I like it because it became obvious that is the perfect choice for the character once you see it, but I'd have preferred other way of knowing it. At the same time this is just my problem for consuming any piece of information about the Cosmere instead of only reading the books.

He spent half of the annotation explaining exactly why he decided to be specific and reveal it outside of the book.