Jasnah and Hoid?

[Vessel of Theory he/him]

So in Chapter 17 of RoW, Jasnah treats Hoid kind of like family, and Navani mentions "intimate rumors".

Am I the only one sitting back in absolute confusion and apprehension?

I mean, Jasnah's great. Hoid's cool too. But I'm sure we all agree that Hoid would drop any feelings he might have for Jasnah if the greater needs of the Cosmere called for him to do so. And I'm pretty sure Jasnah has some relationship issues in her past, so I feel like if they are... involved, things could get really ugly really quick. Otherwise, I'd hope that they're really just exchanging information.

What do we think? Is there something going on between Jasnah and Hoid, or are they just using each other for information/contacts? How's this going to end?

[Innovation]

I personally think that Hoid is revealing some cosmere/realmatic secrets to Jasnah. These secrets can only be shared in private, and thus the rumors of a secret relationship. Hoid has a goal, Jasnah has a goal, and they both aren’t ones to get distracted. I don’t think there is anything to the rumors. 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Innovation

[LuckyJim]

I think it's just rumors. People see a man and a woman sharing a lot of time together and they assume it has to be something scandalous going on. It makes perfect sense for the characters in series to assume that's what's going on, but I have no doubts that they've all got the wrong idea. They're just discussing the secrets of the greater Cosmere, and how to defeat Odium, but since not everyone is prepared to deal with that knowledge they keep it on the down low.

[Vessel of Theory he/him]

12 minutes ago, LuckyJim said:

I think it's just rumors. People see a man and a woman sharing a lot of time together and they assume it has to be something scandalous going on. It makes perfect sense for the characters in series to assume that's what's going on, but I have no doubts that they've all got the wrong idea. They're just discussing the secrets of the greater Cosmere, and how to defeat Odium, but since not everyone is prepared to deal with that knowledge they keep it on the down low.

Definitely relatable  

People, no matter who, where, or when, see a male and a female doing anything together and they think that there's something more going on...

It's happened to me several times, and I'm sure it's happened to some of y'all.

 

26 minutes ago, Innovation said:

I personally think that Hoid is revealing some cosmere/realmatic secrets to Jasnah. These secrets can only be shared in private, and thus the rumors of a secret relationship. Hoid has a goal, Jasnah has a goal, and they both aren’t ones to get distracted. I don’t think there is anything to the rumors. 

Completely! Jasnah and Hoid are very motivated and hardly distractable. Let's all keep our fingers crossed that there isn't anything but rumors.

[Gilphon]

I mean, I don't know if I believe there's romance, but Jasnah certainly seems to uncharacteristically trusting of him. Like Navani mentions that she didn't drop the mask until after Shallan had left- Jasnah apparently trusts him more than Shallan. That's... well, that's evidence of there being more than just exchanging knowledge. Close friendship at the absolute minimum. 

[snoopy]

Brandon has said that Hoid has had multiple love interests.  Why not Jasnah?

Hoid has said he is way too old for Shallan, but maybe Jasnah is old enough..

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

6 minutes ago, snoopy said:

 

Brandon has said that Hoid has had multiple love interests.  Why not Jasnah?

Hoid has said he is way too old for Shallan, but maybe Jasnah is old enough..

 

I feel like at hoid’s age the difference between Shallan and Jasnah in age is meaningless

[snoopy]

9 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

I feel like at hoid’s age the difference between Shallan and Jasnah in age is meaningless

There aren't many people in the cosmere who are as old as him, so his choices would be pretty much non-existant by that criteria.  A 17 year old and a 30-something year old would be worlds apart in terms of maturity.  30-something is old enough to decide and for it to be ok, imo.  

[Gilphon]

I mean, Hoid didn't actually say that Shallan was too young for him. Adolin said that Shallan was too young for him, and Hoid replied with 'Well, that's kind of a problem. There's only one woman in my age group in the area, and I've never gotten along with her.'

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

Jasnah apparently trusts him more than Shallan

I mean, personally I think Jasnah probably knows about Shallan and the Ghostbloods, or at least suspects something.

[Vessel of Theory he/him]

1 minute ago, beewall said:

I mean, personally I think Jasnah probably knows about Shallan and the Ghostbloods, or at least suspects something.

I agree. I think it'd be weird at this point for Jasnah, Queen of Alethkar, to NOT know almost everything about someone as close to her as her ward. Is it too much to hope for that Jasnah has a mole in the Ghostbloods?

[LuckyJim]

3 hours ago, Gilphon said:

I mean, I don't know if I believe there's romance, but Jasnah certainly seems to uncharacteristically trusting of him. Like Navani mentions that she didn't drop the mask until after Shallan had left- Jasnah apparently trusts him more than Shallan. That's... well, that's evidence of there being more than just exchanging knowledge. Close friendship at the absolute minimum. 

I thought she let the mask down because the Mink had left. It's just a coincidence that Shallan was leading him away.

[+Invocation]

They're just scheming together. Not their fault Alethi society can't comprehend the scale of their conniving.

[Aon Tia she/her]

Rumours are rumours and we can not know for certain what is going on between the two till one of them outright says it. 
But friends, confidants or something more, what I wonder is if Jasnah knows that her Wit is a lightweaver. He has bonded a cryptic and not just any cryptic but the one that was meant for her brother! 
Wonder how trusting she is going to be of him then.
Knowing that he knew the reason for Elhokar’s paranoia and did nothing besides waiting around for him to get killed to then bond with his spren. That is going to bring trouble and I can’t wait to see it happen. 

[notsawerd]

I don't think Wit waited around for Elhokar to die so that he could bond his spren.  Wit knows where he is supposed to be but not why he is supposed to be there.  It has been awhile since I read Oathrbinger but I believe that he knew he was needed in Kolinar but did not know why until he found the Cryptic.

[+Bliev she/her]

I think it would be completely within what we know of Jasnah's character to have a FWB relationship. Those sorts of things can be very difficult for women who don't trust easily, so if she trusts him, she might enjoy it. But that's only if she has the inclination and we've seen no evidence of any romantic inclination on her part toward anyone. I also honestly don't know that Brandon has it in him to write casual sexual flings into his books. He's so pure. 

I think it's more likely that (a)  society can't imagine a situation where a man and woman would consort together so closely sans romance, (b) both Jasnah and Wit find it wryly amusing to thwart societal expectations so they lean into it, (c) it serves Jasnah by keeping suitors away from her who are seeking  power, and (d) it serves Wit by letting him learn about soul casting from a very powerful person (less risky if the soulcaster is your friend!). 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Bliev

[Shardsplinter he/him]

Like many have stated before me there are a number of possibilities for the nature of this relationship and without further data and considering Navani's skewed PoV we really can't reach any conclussion. But this is the Shard, what would become of us without speculation?

I'm gonna start with what I think we can mostly agree on: they are sharing information and probably have been since the WoR interlude; they are conspiring together; Hoid is advicing the Queen and Jasnah is teaching him how to soulcast( this is more speculative than the others). I think this kind of relationship (albeit there could be more to it) fits both their personalities and interests. The only question IMHO is how much do they actually trust each other because trusting Hoid 100%is not something I would recomend anyone to do.

The bigger question comes on wether or not there is more to this relationship. Here I believe some people have been too quick to dismiss the possibility saying that the rumors and Navani's suspicions are simply the result of a society that can't see a strong independent women commonly surrounded by a man without assuming they're having sex or some how involved. This is obviously one possibility, but not necessarily the most likely like I see some people stating. The Alethi gender biases are huge enough that this would be a very logical missunderstanding; but after reading the chapter I felt a certain complicity between the 2 of them that doesn't simply come from working together. That scene where Hoid serves himself some wine and then handed over a cup to Jasnah screamed lover, at least to me. The only reason I didn't just assume there was something going on between the 2 of them was because casual sex doesn't seem very Sanderlike and Roshar is a very oath-based society. Then again that doesn't seem like something that would stop Hoid or maybe even Jasnah. Those 2 facts aside ( and one of them is more meta than actually based in the story) I don't see a reason why they couldn't happyly be FwB. 

Last but not least there's also the possibility that they have fallen in love, but given their personalities a romantic relationship just doesn't add up completely for me. Still, love comes im the weirdest of ways and in the most unexpected times so...who knows, maybe this will be a love for the ages!!

PS: This topic has also brought out the theme of Jasnah's sexuality and I would like to say that the only information we currentrly have on that is that she has rejected a high number of male pretenders; but knowing her this could be only because she didn't want to simply become wife to Brightlord  ______, so while I know there's a big fanbase #Jasnahisace and I completely support and desire more inclusive non-straight charachters, by this point in the story Brandon could claim that she is hetero, lesbian, ace, pan or pretty much any sexuality and I would find it logical and consistent.

(Hoid on the other side is clearly pansexual and nothing Brandon says can change my mind on that)

 

TL;dr IMHO

1-They are working together towards a commun interest: Almost surely, matches their personalities.

2-Afterwards they're sharing a bed: No way to know, but matches their personalities.

3-They have fall in love: Not likely, doesn't seem to match their personalities.

[Nathrangking he/him]

This annotation suggests much. Turns out Jasnah is Asexual.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

5 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

This annotation suggests much. Turns out Jasnah is Asexual.

Well I mean, that doesn't make her unable to be seeing Hoid (though I don't personally think she is).

[Nathrangking he/him]

2 minutes ago, AonEne said:

Well I mean, that doesn't make her unable to be seeing Hoid (though I don't personally think she is).

Unable no. However, given what we have seen of Jasnah combined with the new information that we have a stretch I think.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

22 minutes ago, Nathrangking said:

Unable no. However, given what we have seen of Jasnah combined with the new information that we have a stretch I think.

...? Why? She's heteroro. I don't think she's interested in him in the slightest, but why would this info impact that at all?

[LewsTherinTelescope]

2 minutes ago, AonEne said:

...? Why? She's heteroro. I don't think she's interested in him in the slightest, but why would this info impact that at all?

Obviously because the only reason to like Hoid is his enormous sex appeal /s

[Nathrangking he/him]

Just now, AonEne said:

...? Why? She's heteroro. I don't think she's interested in him in the slightest, but why would this info impact that at all?

The lack of interest in him is the point I think. Knowing that she would engage in intimacy with someone that she cares about says a lot. We have no reason to suspect that she cares for him. I think that he would at this point be at best someone who has information that she wants. Until we see otherwise. 

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

Well again, that's sex, not romance. They're two very different things. But I see what you're trying to say.

[Shardsplinter he/him]

On 28/10/2020 at 10:08 PM, Shardsplinter said:

1-They are working together towards a commun interest: Almost surely, matches their personalities.

2-Afterwards they're sharing a bed: No way to know, but matches their personalities.

3-They have fall in love: Not likely, doesn't seem to match their personalities.

So I guess option 2 is out of the realm of possibilities. 3 could still be cause well, She's heteroro, but like I said, I just don't see it. Meaning it's clearly number one!

In general terms when I read Brandon's annotation I almost screamed of excitement cause we now have official confirmation on our first 2 LGBTQIA(losttrackofallthenewletters)+ protas. Really happy for all the fans like @AonEne who wanted a decent ace charachter ( it doesn't get better than that) and well, Shallan was almost a sure thing by now, but I do hope we get a more obvious bi development from her charachter despict of her marriage to a man( which is 100% a valid choice for a bisexual woman, but you know what I mean) Both are women, so I guess @Honorless will have to keep waiting for that gay male main charachter. As for me, I'll stick to hoping Hoid's pan. This is possible rigt? I'm not going crazy on this??

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Shardsplinter