Fabrial Metals

[Gilphon]

I think it would easier to repel the ship than the entire planet. Like have the fabrial attached to the bottom of the ship, pointing up, so it's kind of like a hot-air balloon. 

It sounds theoretically possible to me, but stabilizing it would probably be a greater engineering challenge than using conjoiners is. It's superior if you can make it safe, though, because then you don't have to bother with giant counter-weights. Although it's probably more stormlight-intensive. 

[spaidapig]

16 hours ago, Gilphon said:

I think it would easier to repel the ship than the entire planet. Like have the fabrial attached to the bottom of the ship, pointing up, so it's kind of like a hot-air balloon. 

It sounds theoretically possible to me, but stabilizing it would probably be a greater engineering challenge than using conjoiners is. It's superior if you can make it safe, though, because then you don't have to bother with giant counter-weights. Although it's probably more stormlight-intensive. 

But if you put the repeller at the bottom of the ship, pointing upwards, then it would push the ship upwards, but the fabrial, which is attached to ship would be pushed downwards. The net force out of this would be zero. It's like you can't pull yourself out of a swamp by pulling up your own hair. this would create a perpetuum-mobile. Physically impossible. And the laws of mechanics still apply to the cosmere in general. Just like pushing and pulling in Allomancy.

 

17 hours ago, Jofwu said:

I've been wondering if there's a chance they might use repellers to make airships without all the complicated conjoined gem stuff. Like if you can just repel the entire planet from you... Not to derail the topic at hand.

I like this really a lot. Reminds me of [Mistborn, Bands of Mourning]

Spoiler

The airships of the southern Scadrians use Ettmetal to create and allomantic Steelpush to stay in the air.

As much as I like the technology Navani and the other scholar put together, this could be the future of airships in Roshar.

[Jofwu]

47 minutes ago, spaidapig said:

I like this really a lot. Reminds me of [Mistborn, Bands of Mourning]

And, to circle back around to fabrial metals... If repeller fabrials use steel then that's a direct parallel!

[spaidapig]

5 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

And, to circle back around to fabrial metals... If repeller fabrials use steel then that's a direct parallel!

Do you  think there is a parallel between Southern Scadrial tech and Farbial technology?

[Jofwu]

4 minutes ago, spaidapig said:

Do you  think there is a parallel between Southern Scadrial tech and Farbial technology?

I think there's certainly a thematic parallel. Brandon has even said that "fabrial" will come to be a general cosmere term for magical devices in general. We're seeing both worlds on the cusp of shifting from magic as a thing that a select few can control to technology which makes magic available to the general public. Laying the ground work for the magical technology they'll need to enter the cosmere space age.

And obviously what we're seeing right now is that there's a direct parallel with what the metals do. Supposedly there's a reason they behave the way they do.

I can't really think of any parallels beyond that though.

[Gilphon]

So now that Navani seems to have moved on to other topic, it feels safe to say that Copper is conspicuously absent from her list. A point in favour of them not having figured out what Copper does, that. 

[Knight Oblivion]

57 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

So now that Navani seems to have moved on to other topic, it feels safe to say that Copper is conspicuously absent from her list. A point in favour of them not having figured out what Copper does, that. 

Yeah, that plea for artifabrians to share their knowledge might help with that though. 

[Innovation]

9 minutes ago, Knight Oblivion said:

Yeah, that plea for artifabrians to share their knowledge might help with that though. 

And maybe steel as well.

[Karger]

On 9/17/2020 at 7:53 AM, spaidapig said:

Do you  think there is a parallel between Southern Scadrial tech and Farbial technology?

They use many of the same principles.  I would say they are about as similar as electrical and combustion engines.  They do similar things based on some similar principles at the mechanical level but the actual methodology is quite different.

[Pagerunner]

I have, unfortunately, not had enough time to be able to keep up with this thread or the other discussions of fabrial mechanics. I've barely had time to read the preview chapters, let alone give the new fabrial mechanics the research and analysis they deserve. So this post will be less-well-cited than I would typically ensure. But I've gotta get some of these thoughts out there anyways, so here goes.

I'll start with the basics, which I'm pretty sure everyone is familiar with: fabrial metals are allomantic metals. The effects match up almost perfectly (with tin being a bit of an odd exception, but it still makes sense as a physical pulling effect). Even though Navani only lists six metals, I think by parallels we can determine that steel and copper are the metals for repulsers and something along the lines of concealers, respectively. The big hiccup is the additional stated effect of iron/steel being involved in augmenters/diminishers, but I believe that's a typo. Although I haven't looked through the thread, I would expect this possibility has been raised before. In case it hasn't, I've gone into detail in a reddit comment; long story short, replace "steel and iron" in the Chapter 10 epigraph with "pewter and tin," and everything clicks a whole lot cleaner.

With that observation in mind, we move onto something I'll take as axiomatic: there are ten kinds of fabrials, and thus ten fabrial metals. Without even looking at fabrial types, I posited above that we have half of the allomantic metals accounted for. But do we count that as eight metals, or four metals and their alloys? If we do it the first way, then we only have two metals remaining, so we would, at the very least, exclude six allomantic metals in fabrial science. (Which wouldn't be the end of the world, in my mind; we've got physical and cognitive effects, but no enhancement or temporal in fabrials [since we're looking at allomantic quadrants and allomantic effects for parallels, not feruchemical, which is the table that has spiritual effects].) The other way (which is kind of where I'm leaning), we'll have eight metals and eight alloys, leaving two fabrial metals which are not allomantic metals. (Anyone else remember the four unused allomantic symbols, by the way?) We know silver has unique properties in the cosmere due to what we've seen on Threnody, so I think that's a prime suspect. Not sure what the other base metal could be, but if I'm speculating I'm partial to a metalloid like silicon to help us with computer integration of Investiture down the road. But that's not really here nor there.

So, let's flip the previous axiom on its side and not look at metals, but look at types of fabrials. I think polarity is a property that subdivides among a single type of fabrials. So augmenters/diminishers are a single item in our list of ten kinds of fabrials, with augmenter being positive polarity and diminisher being our negative polarity. Like I said before, we've got four kinds of fabrials: augmenters/diminishers, attractors/repulsers, rioters/soothers (pending an official name for zinc/brass), and alterters/concealers. We also do have conjoiners/reversers, but I don't think those are a different type, since Navani's list of metals appears to have reached its end. If they had another metal for conjoiners, she'd include it in the list, so that makes me think conjoiners use the same metal as one of the other kinds of fabrials. I'd guess they are rioters of some sort.

But we do have a fifth kind of fabrial: Surgebinders/surge suppressors. The voidrial that we saw in the preview chapters shares similarities with parts of the Urithiru pillar, with the addition of an unknown metal in the voidrial (more on that distinction later). I suspect the metal is chromium (since it produces an effect similar to allomantic chromium). These suppressors would be the negative polarity; the positive polarity version would be the surgebinding fabrials we've seen time and time again, Soulcasters and Regrowth fabrials. Which would, quite handily, use nicrosil. I think chromium/nicrosil are better than aluminum/duralumin, because Navani knows and would recognize aluminum if it was the voidrial metal.

(Oh, yes, what about aluminum in a cage? I've said this already in the airship mechanics thread, but I don't think aluminum is a part of the cage in Navani's airship. I think it's interfering with aspects of an already existing conjoiner fabrial, but I haven't seen anything since then to change my mind and cause me to think it's part of the cage, especially if Navani concludes her lecture without mentioning aluminum cages. Jury's still out, of course, until the Part is done and Navani's epigraphs are all revealed. But I'm not expecting us to see any mention of aluminum in a cage.)

So the critical question from the paragraph before last should be: did I just suggest that Soulcasters need nicrosil? Well, yes and no. This comes down to the distinction between old fabrials and new fabrials. Fabrials of both kinds are all about a spren manifesting itself through a gemstone to cause certain effects. But old fabrials don't have cages; that's the difference Navani notes between the captured voidrial and the gemstone pillar. There's an unknown metal in the voidrial; the pillar has only been described as a bunch of gemstones. I believe that old fabrials had intelligent spren who would consciously manifest the effects upon request utilizing the fabrial's gemstone. That's why you can replace gemstones on a Soulcaster; the spren isn't trapped in the gems, it's using the gems as a conduit. But new fabrials capture more animalistic spren, and they need to be externally coerced into responding certain ways. Trap them inside the gemstone and prod them with certain metals, and they will produce the same effects that an old-fabrial-spren would produce willingly and Intentionally. So the old Surgebinding fabrials don't need nicrosil, because there is no prodding and no cage required. If they want to make brand new Surgebinding fabrials, they would need nicrosil.

That all being said, I'm not 100% convinced that nicrosil/chromium are the metals for Surgebinding/suppressing. There is a big gap in my understanding of Mistborn's primer cubes, specifically how they are able to resonate with and replicate other Metallic Arts. Way back when, right after Bands of Mourning came out, I posited that there were two new metals involved in primer cubes: one to provide power (ettmetal), and one to resonate with the specific effect (some unknown metal 2). I wound up asking Brandon about that in person shortly thereafter (which is what confirmed ettmetal as harmonium), so I let the theory slide; godmetals are funky, I'm not gonna complain if ettmetal has multiple effects in a single primer cube. But now I'm wondering if the idea is worth revisiting, that maybe whatever metal is associated with Surgebinding fabrials is also in primer cubes, and in both applications it takes the imprint of a form of Investiture and lets it be replicated. Which could be nicrosil, for what it's worth. But going back to the metal accounting I did up in my third paragraph, I'm back to considering the possibility of two new metal/alloy pairs which interact with Investiture in general (and the Metallic Arts in particular) in new ways.

Thanks for coming along for the ride; that's where I'm at right now. We've got a bunch to learn about fabrials in the book, still, so I expect I'll be revising my theories a few times and posting a more fully-fleshed-out one in its own thread shortly after release. But if I've missed any important tidbits (like kinds of metals used in existing fabrials, or new fabrial types I haven't accounted for), please let me know. I'll be the first to admit this post is woefully uncited, so I would not be surprised if I missed some key pieces.

[Chiberty]

13 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

So, let's flip the previous axiom on its side and not look at metals, but look at types of fabrials. I think polarity is a property that subdivides among a single type of fabrials. So augmenters/diminishers are a single item in our list of ten kinds of fabrials, with augmenter being positive polarity and diminisher being our negative polarity. Like I said before, we've got four kinds of fabrials: augmenters/diminishers, attractors/repulsers, rioters/soothers (pending an official name for zinc/brass), and alterters/concealers. We also do have conjoiners/reversers, but I don't think those are a different type, since Navani's list of metals appears to have reached its end. If they had another metal for conjoiners, she'd include it in the list, so that makes me think conjoiners use the same metal as one of the other kinds of fabrials. I'd guess they are rioters of some sort.

One issue here is that zinc/brass doesn't make a different type of fabrial. Putting zinc/brass on a fabrial will change it's strength (and probably rate of stormlight consumption), but if the fabrial doesnt already have a function, that wouldnt really do anything.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Chiberty

[Gilphon]

7 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Oh, yes, what about aluminum in a cage? I've said this already in the airship mechanics thread, but I don't think aluminum is a part of the cage in Navani's airship. I think it's interfering with aspects of an already existing conjoiner fabrial, but I haven't seen anything since then to change my mind and cause me to think it's part of the cage, especially if Navani concludes her lecture without mentioning aluminum cages. Jury's still out, of course, until the Part is done and Navani's epigraphs are all revealed. But I'm not expecting us to see any mention of aluminum in a cage.

I don't think she knew about Aluminium when she was giving the lecture. The lecture is dated to the same year OB takes place in, so it's before RoW starts, and when explaining the airship she mentions that she found out about Aluminium from Azish artifabrians. Learning that was apparently one the big breakthroughs that allowed the airship to be created.

Exactly the kind of thing she was getting at in this week's epigraph, y'know?

Also- the spears that the Fused are using are a better match for Allomantic Chromium than the Voidrial is. Which does not preclude the idea that they're both made of Chromium, of course, but I feel like it's equally possible for the Voidrial to be made out of Raysium. Or maybe some weird like Cadmium. 

[Quantus]

On 9/22/2020 at 7:59 PM, Chiberty said:

One issue here is that zinc/brass doesn't make a different type of fabrial. Putting zinc/brass on a fabrial will change it's strength (and probably rate of stormlight consumption), but if the fabrial doesnt already have a function, that wouldnt really do anything.

According to Navani the type of Spren is what determines the function, and the metals are used to modify and control that primary effect.  In the case of Allomancy, I now suspect Preservation is playing the role of the Spren in dictating the specific effects, while in Feruchemy the "spren" role is played by soul/cognitive shadow of a living Scadrian (which explains the sometimes huge differences in effects. 

So, to address some of @Pagerunner's concerns, I think we need to step back from the specific effects of allomancy and view the metals in their more abstract roles from the chart.  Thus Zinc is NOT universally the "Riot" Metal, simply the External-Mental-Pull Metal, which will presumably have wildly different impact on the fabrial's effects if it's applied to a physical Wind- or Firespren vs a Passion Fear or Angerspren, or whatever else.  

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Quantus
Grammar and clarity

[Govir]

On 9/22/2020 at 7:33 PM, Pagerunner said:

We also do have conjoiners/reversers, but I don't think those are a different type, since Navani's list of metals appears to have reached its end. If they had another metal for conjoiners, she'd include it in the list, so that makes me think conjoiners use the same metal as one of the other kinds of fabrials. I'd guess they are rioters of some sort.

It is my thought that conjoiners/reversers don't use a cage. They get their effect from the split gemstone and some kind of quantum entanglement type mechanic.

I also believe the following:

1. I think you start with "raw" investiture somehow which can come from one of the shards. This doesn't do much on it's own, although it does do some stuff (as seen by Stormlight).
2. You pass the "raw" investiture through structures to give it shapes, which dictate a change in usage. This step can be done multiple times.
3. You get a result.

Some throughput examples.

• Stormlight (1) -> Flame Spren (2) -> Pewter (2) -> Generates Heat (3)
• Stormlight (1) -> Heliodor* (2) -> Bronze (2) -> Detects People (3)

Mistborn

Spoiler

• Preservation (1) -> Steel (2) -> Push metals (3)

Note: My theory on metal in Allomancy burning up is because it's getting power more directly from Preservation, vs fabrials getting indirect Stormlight.

Elantris

Spoiler

• Dor (1) -> Aon Ashe (2) -> Light (3)

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Govir
Restructured to spoiler tag non-Stormlight things

[Quantus]

21 minutes ago, Govir said:

It is my thought that conjoiners/reversers don't use a cage. They get their effect from the split gemstone and some kind of quantum entanglement type mechanic.

I also believe the following:

1. I think you start with "raw" investiture somehow which can come from one of the shards. This doesn't do much on it's own, although it does do some stuff (as seen by Stormlight and Breath).
   1. Stormlight
   2. AonDor
   3. Preservation
   4. Breath
2. You pass the "raw" investiture through structures to give it shapes, which dictate a change in usage. This step can be done multiple times.
   1. Spren
   2. Metal
   3. Aons
3. You get a result.

Some throughput examples.

• Preservation (1) -> Steel (2) -> Push metals (3)
• AonDor (1) -> Aon Ashe (2) -> Light (3)
• Stormlight (1) -> Flame Spren (2) -> Pewter (2) -> Generates Heat (3)
• Stormlight (1) -> Heliodor* (2) -> Bronze (2) -> Detects People (3)

Note: My theory on metal in Allomancy burning up is because it's getting power more directly from Preservation, vs fabrials getting indirect Stormlight.

For what it's worth, I think there is occasionally another required element, a Catalyst needed when the Investiture is not already present in the Physical Realm.  For Allomancy this is the energy/Investment of the Metal that gets literally annihilated as it creates the Conduit to Preservation.  For Awakening I believe this is the innate Investiture present in "Vibrant" things, things that resonate cognitively more than their physical properties alone account for (ie the cognitive difference that turns junk into Art), which is needed to move the breaths from through the Spiritual Realm where they exist when held by a person to the Physical Realm when it is Invested in an object for storage or Awakening.    

Edited September 24, 2020 by Quantus

[Eternal Khol]

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

which is needed to move the breaths from the Spiritual Realm where they exist when held by a person to the Physical Realm when it is Invested in an object for storage or Awakening.    

Breaths, even when held by a person are Physical not Spiritual.

the only exception is Divine Breath which are stuck directly to the Soul 

 

[Govir]

6 minutes ago, Quantus said:

For what it's worth, I think there is occasionally another required element, a Catalyst needed when the Investiture is not already present in the Physical Realm.  For Allomancy this is the energy/Investment of the Metal that gets literally annihilated as it creates the Conduit to Preservation.  For Awakening I believe this is the innate Investiture present in "Vibrant" things, things that resonate cognitively more than their physical properties alone account for (ie the cognitive difference that turns junk into Art), which is needed to move the breaths from the Spiritual Realm where they exist when held by a person to the Physical Realm when it is Invested in an object for storage or Awakening.    

I'm not opposed to this, as my theory definitely didn't have the whole picture. More of a general very basic structure of possible pieces.

[Quantus]

6 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Breaths, even when held by a person are Physical not Spiritual.

the only exception is Divine Breath which are stuck directly to the Soul 

 

You are correct, and Ill alter my statement above, but the core of the idea still stands. They are indeed stored in the Physical, but they still do have to travers the Spiritual when actually used (see WOB below) so I think the basic idea that such transitions require draining Investiture-as-Color still might hold. 

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

With spikes, would you be able to actually transfer Breaths, when they get to the other planets?

Brandon Sanderson

So spikes rip off pieces of the soul and so Breaths are not going to be part of the soul. You could maybe get a divine Breath but I haven't really decided on regular Breaths, they're kind of stuck there in the Physical Realm which is not a thing that spikes are dealing with. Divine Breath, potentially, because that's something that's actually melding onto your soul. But, you know, when you're using the Breaths they reach through to the Spiritual Realm so, maybe if you got it while the Breaths were kinetic, right, while you're using them, then you might be able to rip them off. I'm not a hundred percent certain on that one.

Bystander

There's still things to decide upon.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah there's still things, like I have to kind of see. My instinct says no right now. But, you know, how they interact is not something that I have-- Yeah.

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

 

 

  

[Gilphon]

1 hour ago, Govir said:

It is my thought that conjoiners/reversers don't use a cage. They get their effect from the split gemstone and some kind of quantum entanglement type mechanic.

I also believe the following:

1. I think you start with "raw" investiture somehow which can come from one of the shards. This doesn't do much on it's own, although it does do some stuff (as seen by Stormlight and Breath).
   1. Stormlight
   2. AonDor
   3. Preservation
   4. Breath
2. You pass the "raw" investiture through structures to give it shapes, which dictate a change in usage. This step can be done multiple times.
   1. Spren
   2. Metal
   3. Aons
3. You get a result.

Some throughput examples.

• Preservation (1) -> Steel (2) -> Push metals (3)
• AonDor (1) -> Aon Ashe (2) -> Light (3)
• Stormlight (1) -> Flame Spren (2) -> Pewter (2) -> Generates Heat (3)
• Stormlight (1) -> Heliodor* (2) -> Bronze (2) -> Detects People (3)

Note: My theory on metal in Allomancy burning up is because it's getting power more directly from Preservation, vs fabrials getting indirect Stormlight.

As a nitpick, the "raw" investiture used on Sel is called the Dor, not AonDor. AonDor is a generalized term for what happens when you combine the Dor with an Aon. 

[Govir]

3 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

As a nitpick, the "raw" investiture used on Sel is called the Dor, not AonDor. AonDor is a generalized term for what happens when you combine the Dor with an Aon. 

Good to know. It's been a long time since I've read

Spoiler

Elantris

I also just realized a lot of that post probably should have been behind spoiler tags...so I'm going to try and fix it.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

8 hours ago, Quantus said:

I now suspect Preservation is playing the role of the Spren in dictating the specific effects, while in Feruchemy the "spren" role is played by soul/cognitive shadow of a living Scadrian

Ooh I like this theory. When dealing with hemalurgy, I'd imagine the "spren" would be the other person's soul, not Ruin, unlike in allomancy though.

[Halyo_Alex]

4 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

Ooh I like this theory. When dealing with hemalurgy, I'd imagine the "spren" would be the other person's soul, not Ruin, unlike in allomancy though.

I suppose in all of these cases, fabrials included, what we're discussing here is changing the Investiture in use. Spren are, after all, fragments of Honor/Cultivation.

...That begs the question, if you could put the Mists inside a gemstone, could you spoof Allomantic effects with a fabrial?

[+Bzhydack]

4 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

...That begs the question, if you could put the Mists inside a gemstone, could you spoof Allomantic effects with a fabrial?

Probably yes, Investiture can be converted one into other. Noone knows yet how to do that, but this should be theoreticly possible.

[+Bzhydack]

21 hours ago, Govir said:

It is my thought that conjoiners/reversers don't use a cage. They get their effect from the split gemstone and some kind of quantum entanglement type mechanic.

We even have evidence of this - Navani, when she recive misterous message, just picks up ruby, and it was active (blinks).

I think (and I mention in this topic earlier) that pair of conjoiners/reversers are made form one spren, and one spren exist in two connected parts in two gems simultanously. And have to be split during process. Maybe need zinc-brass cage to switch between modes (alert/recive/send) but for basis it dont need any.

 

P.S. Can mod merge my two posts?

Edited September 25, 2020 by Bzhydack

[+Oltux72]

 

On 23.9.2020 at 1:33 AM, Pagerunner said:

The effects match up almost perfectly (with tin being a bit of an odd exception, but it still makes sense as a physical pulling effect). Even though Navani only lists six metals,

Kalami in Oathbringer already talked about copper and gold.

On 23.9.2020 at 1:33 AM, Pagerunner said:

With that observation in mind, we move onto something I'll take as axiomatic: there are ten kinds of fabrials, and thus ten fabrial metals.

Why? Well, of course you can take it as axiomatic, but there is no connection between fabrial types and the Surges so far. In fact fabrials can do things impossible with the Surges, like detecting people.

On 23.9.2020 at 1:33 AM, Pagerunner said:

So, let's flip the previous axiom on its side and not look at metals, but look at types of fabrials. I think polarity is a property that subdivides among a single type of fabrials. So augmenters/diminishers are a single item in our list of ten kinds of fabrials, with augmenter being positive polarity and diminisher being our negative polarity. Like I said before, we've got four kinds of fabrials: augmenters/diminishers, attractors/repulsers, rioters/soothers (pending an official name for zinc/brass),

What is the difference between augmenters/diminishers versus rioters/soothers?

On 23.9.2020 at 1:33 AM, Pagerunner said:

and alterters/concealers.

Is there any evidence for concealers?

On 23.9.2020 at 1:33 AM, Pagerunner said:

So the critical question from the paragraph before last should be: did I just suggest that Soulcasters need nicrosil? Well, yes and no. This comes down to the distinction between old fabrials and new fabrials. Fabrials of both kinds are all about a spren manifesting itself through a gemstone to cause certain effects. But old fabrials don't have cages;

Well, no. They do have cages. A Soulcaster has a housing for its gemstones and it is extremely important. Jasnah told Shallan that the alignment needs to be correct.

On 23.9.2020 at 1:33 AM, Pagerunner said:

that's the difference Navani notes between the captured voidrial and the gemstone pillar. There's an unknown metal in the voidrial; the pillar has only been described as a bunch of gemstones.

Yey Kalami noted gold and copper she suspected to be part of a fabrial.

On 23.9.2020 at 1:33 AM, Pagerunner said:

I believe that old fabrials had intelligent spren who would consciously manifest the effects upon request utilizing the fabrial's gemstone. That's why you can replace gemstones on a Soulcaster; the spren isn't trapped in the gems, it's using the gems as a conduit.

Well, no. I am sorry, but no, this clashes horribly with the effects Soulcasters have on their users. The user has to talk to the cognitive aspect of the object he soulcasts, sees Shadesmar and is slowly transformed. The closest thing to a Soulcaster would be a Scadrian medaillion. The Soulcaster gives the user an arcane power, it does not perform an arcane act.

On 23.9.2020 at 9:34 AM, Gilphon said:

I don't think she knew about Aluminium when she was giving the lecture. The lecture is dated to the same year OB takes place in, so it's before RoW starts, and when explaining the airship she mentions that she found out about Aluminium from Azish artifabrians. Learning that was apparently one the big breakthroughs that allowed the airship to be created.

She must have read the reports on the Screamer spren and how to shield a soulcaster with aluminium. In fact, what if not those reports made the Azish experiment with aluminium?

On 23.9.2020 at 9:34 AM, Gilphon said:

Also- the spears that the Fused are using are a better match for Allomantic Chromium than the Voidrial is. Which does not preclude the idea that they're both made of Chromium, of course, but I feel like it's equally possible for the Voidrial to be made out of Raysium. Or maybe some weird like Cadmium. 

The gem on the spear did not glow. There is no indication that there's a spren in it.

22 hours ago, Quantus said:

According to Navani the type of Spren is what determines the function, and the metals are used to modify and control that primary effect.  In the case of Allomancy, I now suspect Preservation is playing the role of the Spren in dictating the specific effects, while in Feruchemy the "spren" role is played by soul/cognitive shadow of a living Scadrian (which explains the sometimes huge differences in effects. 

Why can you store allomanic ability and feruchemical ability in nicrosil if that is the case? That strongly suggests that they are the same

22 hours ago, Quantus said:

So, to address some of @Pagerunner's concerns, I think we need to step back from the specific effects of allomancy and view the metals in their more abstract roles from the chart.  Thus Zinc is NOT universally the "Riot" Metal, simply the External-Mental-Pull Metal, which will presumably have wildly different impact on the fabrial's effects if it's applied to a physical Wind- or Firespren vs a Passion Fear or Angerspren, or whatever else. 

Yes, that allows a much better understanding of pewter/tin.