Long Game 67: The Road to Urithiru

[Lahilt he/him]

48 minutes ago, Gears said:

As the vote stands, I will be lynched. Of course, there is an entire day left in the turn, so that is subject to change, but I feel that we should plan a course of action for after my death. Does anyone have any suggestions?

As for a defense, I have been given no accusations to defend against. My only crime appears to be tunnelling on Ventyl after stating that I wouldn't do so. Any attempts to mend the situation will only worsen it, as maintaining my position will worsen my status in the eyes of many and retracting my position will make me appear to have a survival wish, which tends to afflict those who engage in friendly acts of nightly slaughter. If anyone would like to clarify their suspicions into something I can mount a defense against, that would be much appreciated.

Giving us some Elim suspicions other then Ventyl would be helpful if you flip village this could be helpful. You could analyse and voice suspicion of others while still keeping your vote on Ventyl

 I have not reread the thread yet so maybe you already did that.

 

[A Joe in the Bush]

Blegh, i need sleep.

4 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Ash retracted his vote off Ventyl. 

My main argument against Gears lynch:

I feel this too strong to be a poke vote. I replied with me finding this post odd:

He admitted he was in the wrong, yet did not feel compelled to remove his vote:

As such, I find Striker's push on Gears too strong for it to be E/E. I'd also imagine if Gears wanted to save Striker, he could have done it at any possible time in the cycle, There was no need for hm to draw suspicion by retracting his vote at the last moment. I feel it was a genuine attempt to tie and check for elim vote manip.

@Matrim's Dice, I tagged you in the post above. No comment? (Adds +5 Suspicion Points to Matrim)

Ashbringer would be my suspect no.2. He voted for Ventyl this cycle telling it'll stay until he answers his questions.What is this, C1, to vote for prompting others to answer? It seems like a very easy way of back off a lynch. Possibly, he saw a few people voting for Ventyl and appeared to consider a bus, and then he saw a larger no. of people against a Ventyl lynch and backed off from it. 

.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Safe to say I'll be looking very closely at people who voted for you, if you flip village. 

You've convinced me. [ Gears ] i'll vote some time tonight.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Ah, okay. Guess we should just lynch Ventyl then, since squiring was the main reason I didn't want to do that right away.

Elbereth.

[Mat he/him]

The thread has jumped around so much, I'm not even sure what the arguments against Ventyl are. From what I've heard, roleclaiming is just his playstyle and if he's squired an elim-which again, i don't find likely- village accidentally or not, the damage is done anyway. Can someone, if possible not Gears/TJ, inform me why there are 5 votes on him? Thanks.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

30 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

roleclaiming is just his playstyle

It's his elim playstyle for sure. Not necessarily his village one.

Re: reasons, there was some voting stuff with striker that makes it seem like an elim trying to save an elim.

[Mat he/him]

9 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Re: reasons, there was some voting stuff with striker that makes it seem like an elim trying to save an elim.

I just checked Gears' D1 vote history post that he put out N1, and Ventyl's vote history was to vote Joe with a poke, retract and vote TJ, and then move back to Joe. I then checked Striker's vote history via the same list, and he never voted/retracted on Ventyl. 

So I'm not sure what you're talking about, unless there was talk about voting that never happened.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

33 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

The thread has jumped around so much, I'm not even sure what the arguments against Ventyl are. From what I've heard, roleclaiming is just his playstyle and if he's squired an elim-which again, i don't find likely- village accidentally or not, the damage is done anyway. Can someone, if possible not Gears/TJ, inform me why there are 5 votes on him? Thanks.

I'm pretty sure the arguments are 1. Also roleclaimed unnecessarily as an elim in LG66, with the possibility of that being his elim playstyle. The only roled game I remember Ventyl being in as a villager is LG56 when he didn't claim in thread, but did ask the Coinshot to PM him for a role trade 2. Thought it was odd to suggest majority Radiant, especially to excuse claiming Radiant early on 3. Didn't want Striker to be die D1, seeing no difference in his playstyle and citing Striker's history of being killed D1. 4. Striker voted for TJ instead of Ventyl when Striker had 4 votes and the others had. We can't be sure if Ventyl would have voted on Striker in self-preservation had Striker chosen otherwise. 5. Said he was out of stormlight after squiring, then claiming to have believed making a squire took two charges of stormlight after being called on it. Ventyl's D1 post asking for protection because he wouldn't be able to use his surges after squiring could read as backing up this claim. 6. Asking why Sart was killed when it's almost certainly because of his D1 vote for Striker. 

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Striker, TJ, and Ventyl for lynch. TJ votes Ventyl. Striker could have voted for Ventyl and gotten them lynched. Instead, he voted on TJ, causing TJ to move to striker, leading striker to be lynched.

The way that makes the most sense is if Striker was trying to save a teammate, and considered that teammate more important than themselves, like if they were a radiant.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Striker, TJ, and Ventyl for lynch. TJ votes Ventyl. Striker could have voted for Ventyl and gotten them lynched. Instead, he voted on TJ, causing TJ to move to striker, leading striker to be lynched.

The way that makes the most sense is if Striker was trying to save a teammate, and considered that teammate more important than themselves, like if they were a radiant.

Oh, yeah. That was TJ's main argument against him.

2 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Asking why Sart was killed when it's almost certainly because of his D1 vote for Striker. 

Hmm, i just assumed Sart was killed because he was a trusted-by-everyone villager. I've been NK'd before for the simple reason that I was trusted and would be hard to mislynch in the future, and I assumed it was the same principle.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Just now, Matrim's Dice said:

Oh, yeah. That was TJ's main argument against him.

Okay, first you don't know what's going on, then you say 'oh yeah, that was X's argument'. Your play has been suspicious all game.

@Gears, you're online. What are your thoughts on a Matrim lynch, now or in the future?

[Mat he/him]

Just now, The Young Pyromancer said:

Okay, first you don't know what's going on, then you say 'oh yeah, that was X's argument'. Your play has been suspicious all game.

I forgot about it.  How is that AI at all? When you explained it I remembered that TJ had said that earlier, but before I assumed that when you were talking about 'voting stuff' you meant actual votes from Ventyl to Striker or vice versa.

[Gears]

Just now, The Young Pyromancer said:

@Gears, you're online. What are your thoughts on a Matrim lynch, now or in the future?

I am not against it. If we are ever left with no lynch targets, this seems like a perfectly fine option. However, based on the current votes, shifting the lynch onto Matrim now seems both difficult and inadvisable, especially considering that the Ventyl lynch is far more pressing.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Why more pressing? If he's a radiant, he already would've squired.

[Gears]

1 minute ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Why more pressing? If he's a radiant, he already would've squired.

He does still have Stormlight. If he is being truthful about being an Edgedancer, he's harmless, but if he's lying, he could have a kill. Also, he could have lied about squiring.

[Mat he/him]

9 minutes ago, Gears said:

Also, he could have lied about squiring.

@Straw, in the original run of this game, the writeup said 'Squires were created' when squires were created. Why the change?

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

1 minute ago, Matrim's Dice said:

@Straw, in the original run of this game, the writeup said 'Squires were created' when squires were created. Why the change?

Do we know there's a change at all? Ventyl could be lying. Good catch, but stated weirdly.

[Mat he/him]

1 minute ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Do we know there's a change at all? Ventyl could be lying. Good catch, but stated weirdly.

Oh yeah that's a good point. I automatically leaned to trusting Ventyl's claim.  

Edit: @Gears, if you think it's a possibility that Ventyl is lying about being an Edgedancer, why do you also think he's an elim? If he's a Dustbringer he most certainly isn't an elim because I very much doubt the elim team would have two kills.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[Gears]

2 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Edit: @Gears, if you think it's a possibility that Ventyl is lying about being an Edgedancer, why do you also think he's an elim? If he's a Dustbringer he most certainly isn't an elim because I very much doubt the elim team would have two kills.

That was a hypothetical that is very much unlikely. I do not actively believe him to be lying, but the possibility bears pondering. 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

31 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Hmm, i just assumed Sart was killed because he was a trusted-by-everyone villager. I've been NK'd before for the simple reason that I was trusted and would be hard to mislynch in the future, and I assumed it was the same principle.

Sart was a trusted villager despite only having one post specifically because he voted for Striker. If Sart hadn't made that vote, or if Striker hadn't died, or had been a villager, Sart wouldn't be trusted.

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Sart was a trusted villager despite only having one post specifically because he voted for Striker. If Sart hadn't made that vote, or if Striker hadn't died, or had been a villager, Sart wouldn't be trusted.

Yes, and everyone stated N1 that they trusted Sart. So the elims put the kill in for Sart.

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

6 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

This doesn't really matter. If you can adequately answer these questions, many people(me included) would reconsider:

1. Why did you roleclaim as a KR?
2. Why, after us telling you not to give information about yourself in the thread, you continued to do so?
3. If you are village why would these statements be helpful to the village? Did you actually think that they would be helpful?
4. StrikerEZ continuously defended you after knowing that you are a KR, they have now been revealed as an elim. Why would an elim defend a village KR?

I will admit that Gears advoacting for TJs lynch rubbed me the wrong way, especially since TJ is a pretty strong village read. However, that is all speculation and right now Ventyl is much more likely to be elim.

Considering that TJ already answered the first two, I’ll answer the last two. 

3. My thinking was, if I give away some of my role, piece by piece then the people that push strongly for my lynch, could be elims. Because, what elim team wouldn’t want to kill a very likely village Radiant? So, I did think it’d be a great way to start a lot of discussion about who to lynch. Which I generally think is bad for elim teams, because it makes it harder for them to hide, because they’ll have to contribute or they’ll be seen as suspicious. But them contributing also gives them a chance of slipping up and being able to be lynched. 

4. If you see a perfect way to guarantee a village KR gets lynched, wouldn’t you do it? If you see that if you defend someone who as roleclaimed while knowing that you’ll die and flip elim, it would make that person seem very suspicious. So, I don’t know if it was him just trying to get me lynched Day 1 since I’m his brother or if he was actively trying to make me look super suspicious. If it’s the latter, than I’ll be very angry at him when the game ends.

[Straw he/him]

24 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

@Straw, in the original run of this game, the writeup said 'Squires were created' when squires were created. Why the change?

 

Never said anything about it in the rules for LG13. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, this game has less information than LG13 in general. 

22 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Do we know there's a change at all? Ventyl could be lying. Good catch, but stated weirdly.

This isn't exactly the same as LG13. Go by the rules for this game, not the rules for LG13. I'll try to list every change in the changes section of the clarification document, but I can't promise I'll catch all of them.

[Mat he/him]

@The Young Pyromancer

In the clarification doc it does in fact say that Squires being created is not announced.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Matrim's Dice

[Magestar he/him]

@Straw could I get a vote count?

[Straw he/him]

21 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

@The Young Pyromancer

In the clarification doc it does in fact say that Squires being created is not announced.

That's because I just added that.

14 minutes ago, Magestar said:

@Straw could I get a vote count?

Ventyl (5): Gears, Orlok Tsubodai, The Young Pyromancer, The_Truthwatcher, TJ Shade
Gears (4): Araris Valerian, Frozen Mint, Matrim's Dice, Ventyl
TJ Shade (1): Magestar