Multiple Radiancy Shenanigans

[+Invocation]

So you can theoretically bond more than one spren and become a multi-Radiant. What happens if those spren and their corresponding Order grant you a shared Surge? Does it end up like Hemalurgically granting someone a power they already had and become more powerful or what?

Side note: since the Oath progression allows you to use Stormlight more efficiently, is there a point where that plateaus or would bonding multiple spren allow absurd amounts of Stormlight efficiency?

[Weltall]

The only WoB I found that sort of touches on this is the question of what would happen if a Windrunner also had Jezrien's Honorblade. Brandon said there would be a slight compounding effect but that the strength of the spren bond and how much Stormlight you are using is the main factor. That suggests that if you were able to juggle two bonds that happened to share a Surge, you'd get more of a power increase than 'Nahel surgebinding plus Honorblade surgebinding'.

One thing that also might happen as a side effect of having two Nahel Bonds is that you'd lose whatever Resonance you had from your first bond as you started developing the second, since we know that too many powers overrides the subtle effect that produces the Resonances. We just don't know how many qualifies as 'too many' so it's possible that adding only one more surge would either leave you with both possible Resonances or you'd get some sort of triple-Surge Resonance instead.

[+Invocation]

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Gralsritter said:

The only WoB I found that sort of touches on this is the question of what would happen if a Windrunner also had Jezrien's Honorblade. Brandon said there would be a slight compounding effect but that the strength of the spren bond and how much Stormlight you are using is the main factor. That suggests that if you were able to juggle two bonds that happened to share a Surge, you'd get more of a power increase than 'Nahel surgebinding plus Honorblade surgebinding'.

One thing that also might happen as a side effect of having two Nahel Bonds is that you'd lose whatever Resonance you had from your first bond as you started developing the second, since we know that too many powers overrides the subtle effect that produces the Resonances. We just don't know how many qualifies as 'too many' so it's possible that adding only one more surge would either leave you with both possible Resonances or you'd get some sort of triple-Surge Resonance instead.

Triple Surge Resonance would be interesting.

[Gasper]

It might be possible that lower Oath Radiants could only access one of their orders surges.

[Solant]

Ok, so not to derail this thread, but I just had a passing thought and I have to get it out. 

What if Hoid was collecting powers to override an existing unwanted resonance? I know he has some funky things going on.

Like I said... random thought. I'm bad for that. 

[Bigmikey357]

It's probably going to take awhile but we need to see full Oaths from all the Orders. That way we can determine which Orders are compatible enough for one being to become a full Oath KR in multiple orders. Also, Shallan is an interesting case study. If Elsecallers get squires she could potentially become one. That plus her own Lightweaver bond could set up the condition set out by the OP. That calls into question, do you lose your squireship in one Order if you ascend to a different one?

[RShara]

8 minutes ago, Solant said:

Ok, so not to derail this thread, but I just had a passing thought and I have to get it out. 

What if Hoid was collecting powers to override an existing unwanted resonance? I know he has some funky things going on.

Like I said... random thought. I'm bad for that. 

I think Hoid has far too many powers to have any sort of Resonance at this point.

[Kramerfarve]

If this could occur, a wind runner bondsmith mix sounds a little OP

[+Invocation]

14 minutes ago, Kramerfarve said:

If this could occur, a wind runner bondsmith mix sounds a little OP

I think Bondsmith would be one that wouldn't be able to bond multiple because of the restrictions it has, much in the same way that they don't have Blade or (probably) Plate.

[Steel Inquisitive]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

I think Bondsmith would be one that wouldn't be able to bond multiple because of the restrictions it has, much in the same way that they don't have Blade or (probably) Plate.

Idk. Stormfather loved Syl a lot so he might be willing to share a radiant.

Actually SF and Kal already have some history.... If Dalinar dies i vote SF bonds Kaladin!

[+Invocation]

10 minutes ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

Idk. Stormfather loved Syl a lot so he might be willing to share a radiant.

Actually SF and Kal already have some history.... If Dalinar dies i vote SF bonds Kaladin!

Both fair points, and if the Stormfather were to bond Kal as well, he could probably look after her better like he wants, though I do think that Kaladin wouldn't do as well as the Unity Bondsmith as Dalinar is currently doing. His Resonance, after all, is the massive amount of squires he has:

Quote

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Since Shallan has a unique ability of Memory from her blended surges, is fighting what Kaladin has?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. His unique ability is "Strength of Squires".

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

And Jasnah?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO.

source

and Bondsmiths don't have squires, I believe.

[Gray to]

You know Nale has his Honorblade and a 5th oath Skybreaker bond. It's kinda disappointing that we havent seen him in action using the best of his abilities. Hopefully when Brandon does show us that he'll show us the boost in powers Nale would get for having both the bond and the Blade

Edited November 28, 2018 by Ookla the Gray

[NoiseSpren]

All I want is five-ideal-Radiant.

 

Epiiiiiiiiiiic. Even without resonances.

[Steel Inquisitive]

8 hours ago, Ookla the Gray said:

You know Nale has his Honorblade and a 5th oath Skybreaker bond. It's kinda disappointing that we havent seen him in action using the best of his abilities. Hopefully when Brandon dies show us that he'll show us the boost in powers Nale would get for having both the bond and the Blade

Wow! You really want to see this! Brandon better watch his back

[Gray to]

Storming autocorrect that's supposed to be does 

[MistboreD]

10 hours ago, Invocation said:

Both fair points, and if the Stormfather were to bond Kal as well, he could probably look after her better like he wants, though I do think that Kaladin wouldn't do as well as the Unity Bondsmith as Dalinar is currently doing. His Resonance, after all, is the massive amount of squires he has:

and Bondsmiths don't have squires, I believe.

Kaladin won't be a double-Radiant. He's a Windrunner.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/358-fanx-2018/#e11128

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

What would Kaladin's second Order be if he weren't a Windrunner?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I would have to think about that. I haven't considered it.

[Ripheus23]

I suspect that swearing the oaths and being minded to attract a specific spren in the first place, makes multi-Radiants nearly impossible, as that'd be like monogamous polygamy (marriage-level emotional commitment towards multiple people, which doesn't really work).

[+Invocation]

1 hour ago, Ripheus23 said:

I suspect that swearing the oaths and being minded to attract a specific spren in the first place, makes multi-Radiants nearly impossible, as that'd be like monogamous polygamy (marriage-level emotional commitment towards multiple people, which doesn't really work).

Nearly being the key word.

Quote

tganchero (paraphrased)

Is it true that humans can bond to multiple spren?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They can theoretically bond to multiple spren.

source

Quote

Macen

You've pretty much implied yes [to bonding more than one spren].

Brandon Sanderson

I did not say yes.

Questioner

You implied.  <What about> more than one type of spren?  Different types of spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Let's see what happens.  This is not impossible.  

Footnote: Brandon has also stated humans can theoretically bond multiple spren (http://wob.coppermind.net/events/156/#e2841).
source

 

[Ripheus23]

I figure there are some spren that can be bonded without swearing oaths. For example, the nine-shadows image/prophecy seemed to indicate that Odium's champion can bond to all the Unmade. Also, the Ryshadium don't appear to need to swear to the spren that grant them their sentience/sapience/w/e, since until they had that intelligence, they wouldn't be capable of oath-swearing in the first place (assuming that oath-swearing is an ability only had by intelligent/w/e beings). Ditto-ish for the greatshell bond to the "luckspren," I suppose.

All that being said, to bond to spren such as to become a Radiant, would require bonding to spren whose bond is given via oaths, so...

Edited November 30, 2018 by Ripheus23

[StrikerEZ]

7 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

I figure there are some spren that can be bonded without swearing oaths. For example, the nine-shadows image/prophecy seemed to indicate that Odium's champion can bond to all the Unmade. Also, the Ryshadium don't appear to need to swear to the spren that grant them their sentience/sapience/w/e, since until they had that intelligence, they wouldn't be capable of oath-swearing in the first place (assuming that oath-swearing is an ability only had by intelligent/w/e beings). Ditto-ish for the greatshell bond to the "luckspren," I suppose.

All that being said, to bond to spren such as to become a Radiant, would require bonding to spren whose bond is given via oaths, so...

The whole oath-swearing thing is a part of Sugebinding, so of course the rhyshadium and other animals on Roshar that require spren bonds to live (that’s a lot of them) wouldn’t need to swear oaths to bond the spren. The only time oaths are necessary to bond a spren, that we know of, is when bonding Radiant spren. 

As for multiple Radiant spren bonds, I could totally see someone being both a Windrunner and a Stoneward. It’d be hard to bond multiple spren, but we’ve already seen multiple cases where two spren of different orders were arguing over a proto-Radiant, so that person was definitely able to act as if he were in both orders. Wyndle tells Lift at some point that he had been originally planning to bond a nice shoemaker, who is presumably Ym. If Ym ended up bonding a Truthwatcher spren, but was also attracting a cultivationspren, I don’t think it would’ve been that hard for him to bond both.

 

[Ripheus23]

IDK, it seems more like being courted by multiple people. Just because multiple people can be attractive to you, that doesn't mean that, once you settle, you can marry multiple people. So to speak.

[Calderis]

37 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

IDK, it seems more like being courted by multiple people. Just because multiple people can be attractive to you, that doesn't mean that, once you settle, you can marry multiple people. So to speak.

Apt analogy, in that depending on the parties involved, some would be perfectly fine with that arrangement. 

It's probably not common though. 

[Quantus]

Hmm, you know, , I wonder if any sort of Polygamy took hold on Roshar, under the influence of Honor who colored things so heavily toward individual Oaths.  It wouldnt actually be incompatible in any particular way (Wheel of Time did in what Id call a reasonable, Lawful alignment sort of way), but it would be the sort of subversion of earth-bound expectation that Ive come to love the Cosmere. 

[Ripheus23]

I think a case can be made for romantic idealism (one irreplaceable, eternal love) that someone like Sanderson would be of a mind to appreciate, but I guess I will have to RAFO if he plays the philosophical cards that way in the end...

EDIT: Although, if precedent is any indicator, the frequent success of arranged marriages between main characters testifies to the kind of marriages that Sanderson seems to "believe in" (IDK how else to put it...). IIRC, Sanderson's liberalized attitude towards GLBTQ issues, vs. the official stance of his own church, even so hedges him towards the most conservative extension of romantic ideality under the rubric of that church (i.e. it is possible that the entire LDS ecclesiastical community would liberalize its GLBTQ stance for the sake of genuine examples of eternal monogamy on the part of the minority spectrum in question; though the history of the LDS re: monogamy does paint an ironic picture of the (possible) developments, here).

Edited December 1, 2018 by Ripheus23

[Calderis]

@Ripheus23 considering his portrayal of characters with belief systems different than his own, I highly doubt he's going to hem himself in on that way. Especially considering that the bond is not romantic or sexual in nature.