How did Jasnah...(Spoilers)

[kari-no-sugata]

Jasnah was exhausted, it's quite reasonable that she was surprised.

 

Based on what she and Hoid say at the end it's pretty much certain that when Jasnah Elsecall'd from the ship it was the first time she ever did that - if she could do it before she would definitely go talk to the spren there to get info! Which likely also explains her problems getting back.

 

Ergo, it was unplanned (for her to Elsecall) and almost certainly done in desperation.

 

[edit] Oh, new signing info. Hmm.

Edited March 25, 2014 by kari-no-sugata

[RShara]

This is why some people dislike high fantasy:

--why was that strong, female major character who would have had a huge impact on the plot and the development of at least one other major character gone for the entire book?

---Because Elsecalling

Because according to Brandon, with Jasnah there, Shallan wasn't able to "come into her own."

[name_here]

I'm not altogether convinced it was the first time she's ever done it, but I would say it serves as an excellent case study of why she doesn't do it more often. Jasnah can use stormlight to be a very slow teleporter, or she can take a boat like anyone else. I suspect that as she gets more practice and possibly advances up the Ideals, it won't be quite so terrible in the future.

[Radiant_thoughts]

Question, did Tyn's ghostblood assassins drown following the attack? I assume they did.

[Crawly]

I had a question and this seemed a good place to post it. How did jasnah become broken?

Her reaction to the alleywaymen in WoK would sugest that she was hurt by some rough men.

Her feelings towards Dallinar might mean he was the one to save her.

I had kinda just thought that it was her reaction to the death of her father that sent her over the edge but between the prologe to WoR and the comments made by Navani when she breaks down about her "death" it seems that her troubles happened right around puberty.

Just wanted to get some feed back and to hear your thoughts about it.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I had a question and this seemed a good place to post it. How did jasnah become broken?

Her reaction to the alleywaymen in WoK would sugest that she was hurt by some rough men.

Her feelings towards Dallinar might mean he was the one to save her.

I had kinda just thought that it was her reaction to the death of her father that sent her over the edge but between the prologe to WoR and the comments made by Navani when she breaks down about her "death" it seems that her troubles happened right around puberty.

Just wanted to get some feed back and to hear your thoughts about it.

 

Great questions! And welcome to the boards!

 

I have assumed her "brokenness" was related to the Gavilar's death and her inability to "stop" it, much like Dalinar was broken by the same event (in my mind). She had attracted Ivory by her actions, but then it was the death of her father that caused her to have the breaks necessary to bond Ivory. 

 

I read the Navani/Jasnah thing as a natural outflow of a very brilliant independent girl/woman and her mother who seems to like to meddle a bit in peoples lives to me. Though there could definitely be more to the store. There's always another secret...

 

I also read her revulsion to the men in the alley as a form of righteous anger against those would abuse their "power" to steal from "innocent women". Again... could be more to it though!

[BaarZel]

Hey, so forgive me if someone else already mentioned this, but I'm almost positive Jasnah knew about the assassination. In the prolougue she mentions her deal with Liss and other assassins to give her knowledge of assassination jobs taken out on her and her family. It would explain why she was so nervous beforehand, and perhaps allowed her time to prepare for the worst case scenario.

[Awesomeness Summoned]

Hey, so forgive me if someone else already mentioned this, but I'm almost positive Jasnah knew about the assassination. In the prolougue she mentions her deal with Liss and other assassins to give her knowledge of assassination jobs taken out on her and her family. It would explain why she was so nervous beforehand, and perhaps allowed her time to prepare for the worst case scenario.

It's possible but unlikely. Jasnah can't have deals with every assassin on Roshar and likely only had agreements with the high end assassins in Alethkar and the shattered plains who are most likely to take contracts on a high prince's family. Tyn seems like a low level person and she doesn't even do the job herself. The men she hired and sent on the ship to do the job seemed more like thugs than professionals.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Awesomeness Summoned

[Tazren]

I also imagine that almost literally having the weight of the world on your shoulders would make you prone to nervousness. Being on a boat, in the relative solitude in her quarters, while she can't really do anything else, would be as good a time as any to have a mild breakdown over that. 

 

Regarding her Elsecalling, I don't believe it was her first time. She must, at least, have known what that she could do it. I'd guess that she knows it's imprecise and dangerous, and that's why they took a boat from Kharbranth. With a boat, she was quite sure they'd make it to the Shattered Plains. With Elsecalling, she could've been afraid that both she and Shallan would end up someplace dangerous, or that they'd die in the process. So she for safety rather than risky speed.

[BaarZel]

It's possible but unlikely. Jasnah can't have deals with every assassin on Roshar and likely only had agreements with the high end assassins in Alethkar and the shattered plains who are most likely to take contracts on a high prince's family. Tyn seems like a low level person and she doesn't even do the job herself. The men she hired and sent on the ship to do the job seemed more like thugs than professionals.

 

Jasnah definitely had agreements with at least 12 other assassins, and if Tyn was good enough to be hired to kill her, it stands to reason that she was good enough to be contacted by Jasnah as well.

 

But even more importantly, I'm not convinced that Tyn isn't the same person as Liss. They are both female assassins and they are both described as having a talent with accents and dialects, with Bavish being particularly emphasized. Given that six years have gone by and physical differences could easily be explained by circumstances, and we know Tyn has a way to change her eye color as well.

 

But what about Liss's Shardblade? She is the weeper, afterall. Maybe... I suspect that Liss was really using Szeth as a tool for assassinations and that she never had a Blade at all. This also would make it more interesting from Szeth's POV because he would have some actual storyline for this part as opposed to being "I was a slave of an assassin, but I didn't kill."

 

This would actually tie the prologue into the actual novel really well. Jasnah meets with a female assassin, skilled in dialects and prolonged observation (aka a long con)  and in passing, mentions to us an agreement to warn her against assassination attempts against her. ----> a little later, viola! an assassination attempt against her...which she survives!! how relevant!

Later we have Shallan meeting a female assassin adept at dialects and long cons ---> its later revealed that she arranged the hit on Jasnah, and wasn't expecting to actually get paid...that's odd considering she holds herself in high esteem... Maybe because she had kept her end of the 6 yr old agreement to warn Jasnah if a hit was ever ordered. 

 

with this, the prologue goes from kind of ironic to completely relevant. 

Edited March 27, 2014 by BaarZel

[Aleksiel]

But what about Liss's Shardblade? She is the weeper, afterall. Maybe... I suspect that Liss was really using Szeth as a tool for assassinations and that she never had a Blade at all. This also would make it more interesting from Szeth's POV because he would have some actual storyline for this part as opposed to being "I was a slave of an assassin, but I didn't kill."

 

Why would she ever gave up Szeth if that was the case? Send him do the job>enjoy herself while waiting>profit.

 

If Tyn was Liss, she wouldn't have tried to kill and silence Shallan imo and Jasnah would have made sure Shallan was out of danger during the attempted assassination (if she knew, that is, oh well...). Why would Liss just throw everything away and not kill Jasnah personally? She obviously could get to Jasnah on her own and be close enough to strike.

 

I suspect Lys is still spying Elhokar's wife.

[Awesomeness Summoned]

Jasnah definitely had agreements with at least 12 other assassins.

I didn't argue against her having agreements with a good number but as I said, it's a big world. Do you really think there are only 12 assassins in all of Alethkar, much less all of Roshar? Despite her best efforts, there would still be plenty of people like Tyn she wouldn't even be aware of. Jasnah is a capable women but I doubt she has the connections in the underworld to know every person likely to be hired to kill her.

and if Tyn was good enough to be hired to kill her, it stands to reason that she was good enough to be contacted by Jasnah as well.

Jasnah told Shallan after the Kabsal incident that the ghostbloods have tried killing her many times. Obviously there are still plenty of people the ghostbloods think are "good enough" to kill her that she doesn't have an agreement with. Besides, Tyn's method of sending thugs onto the ship to kill the whole crew just doesn't seem to me like the type of thing a professional assassin would do. Tyn is a criminal that takes what jobs she can, not a professional assassin. At least that's what it seemed like to me.

[BaarZel]

Why would she ever gave up Szeth if that was the case? Send him do the job>enjoy herself while waiting>profit.

 

If Tyn was Liss, she wouldn't have tried to kill and silence Shallan imo and Jasnah would have made sure Shallan was out of danger during the attempted assassination (if she knew, that is, oh well...). Why would Liss just throw everything away and not kill Jasnah personally? She obviously could get to Jasnah on her own and be close enough to strike.

 

 

She'd given up Szeth because it seems they alays give up Szeth. He even says himself how usually hen he is used to kill its sneaky, leaving no trace...maybe like gouging out their eyes.

Im also not saying Jasnah prepared as well as she should, she definitely left behind Shallan, which is bad. But Tyn setting up a pretty awful assassination attempt just kind of seems like evidence that she didn't want to kill Jasnah. However, Tyn did have to kill Shallan. She knew too much about Tyn, and now that Jasnah is "dead" her agreement is over.

 

Most importantly, I'm not trying to argue this is the only possibility, far from it. Even i admit it's a stretch. However, given the information conveyed to us in the prologue, which otherwise is completely irrelevant. I think this makes a lot of sense.

[ctrout13]

Has anyone think the she could of been so tired and exhausted because she was using a high amount of stormlight? Everytime you use stormlight in heavy amounts you become really exhausted?

[Aleksiel]

It's interesting idea, but what would she do with so much stromlight on the ship? According to Brandon, Jasnah's not experienced in elsecalling (so she probably hasn't done it before; she couldn't have been traveling around during the trip since she can only return to the Physical realm from the Cognitive in some fixed locations), and much soulcasting would have likely be noticed at least by Shallan.

[natc]

She was practicing soulcasting on a stick maybe?

[Lirins hand]

The Tor reading from the next book has a quote

by Ivory that basically says they together did something new and different on the ship that Jasnah hadn't done before.
 
So I don't think she meant to do exactly what she did and didn't know for sure if she could or not.  And I don't think she meant to leave Shallan behind alone.
 
She's been practicing with her powers but this was not one of them.
 
If she knew THIS attack was coming, she was trying to draw out the conspirators.  However, I think this plan she had was more a general emergency contingency plan because she knew she was a target, not specifically for this attack.

 

 

Edit: Thanks Weiry - had not figured out how to do that yet.  Was trying to be circumspect and not give away too much.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Lirins hand
spoiler tags

[ZxlinkxZ]

I listened to Brandon Sanderson's reading of Jasnah's transition into Shadesmar as her body was stabbed. She feels the knife penetrating her. And from what we know the body may also stay in the physical realm in while also in Shadesmar, perhaps it only disappears when you try to reappear in a new location.

[natc]

I listened to Brandon Sanderson's reading of Jasnah's transition into Shadesmar as her body was stabbed. She feels the knife penetrating her. And from what we know the body may also stay in the physical realm in while also in Shadesmar, perhaps it only disappears when you try to reappear in a new location.

I always just assumed just normally accessing Shadesmar with your mind for soulcasting purposes is a lot different than simply teleporting your whole living body into it outright.

Because Jasnah was definitely not on Roshar for months. People would notice that.

[Arondell]

 

 

I have assumed her "brokenness" was related to the Gavilar's death and her inability to "stop" it, much like Dalinar was broken by the same event (in my mind). She had attracted Ivory by her actions, but then it was the death of her father that caused her to have the breaks necessary to bond Ivory. 

 

 

Her breathing in stormlight, shortly before Gavilar's death, during the apparent test by Ivory strongly implies the bond was already in place.  I really doubt she could have done that without such a bond.  That Azish looking individual that was likely Nalan certainly seemed to notice her in the prologue so I'm inclined to think whatever damage she suffered happened in her youth.

[hoser]

Her breathing in stormlight, shortly before Gavilar's death, during the apparent test by Ivory strongly implies the bond was already in place.  I really doubt she could have done that without such a bond.  That Azish looking individual that was likely Nalan certainly seemed to notice her in the prologue so I'm inclined to think whatever damage she suffered happened in her youth.

Not that it necessarily relates, but there are multiple hints that Jasnah and Amaram have a significant negative history.  Coupling that with Navani's comment to Shallan about her suddenly changing in her teens, it is possible to connect dots ...

[EpicSOB]

I'm going to ask a potentially obvious question, is shadesmar the same thing as the cognitive realm? If so we can infer several things about why she is alive as well as IMPORTANT information about the Cosmere in general. 

1. Jasnah DID actually die.
2. She found a way back, presumably the same way as Kelsier from the Mistborn series has.  
3. Permanent death is optional in the Cosmere. 
4. (not serious) Jasnah and Kelsie may have met!

Edited June 8, 2017 by EpicSOB

[Weltall]

Yes, Shadesmar is just the local term for the Cognitive Realm. Other worlds would call it by other names.

Also, something you might want to keep in mind in the future: Resurrecting a thread that's been dead for over two years is generally considered 'bad form' unless it's adding something new.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Weltall

[EpicSOB]

3 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Yes, Shadesmar is just the local term for the Cognitive Realm. Other worlds would call it by other names.

Also, something you might want to keep in mind in the future: Resurrecting a thread that's been dead for over two years is generally considered 'bad form' unless it's adding something new.

I was adding something new I just miss-clicked the submit button early by mistake.

[Calderis]

33 minutes ago, EpicSOB said:

• Jasnah DID actually die.
• She found a way back, presumably the same way as Kelsier from the Mistborn series has.  
• Permanent death is optional in the Cosmere. 
• (not serious) Jasnah and Kelsie may have met!

Jasnah's body disappear in the physical realm. She did not die. She entered Shadesmar fully and healed via Stormlight. Kelsier left a corpse behind and had his connection to the physical severed.