Xavien Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Kaladin & Shallan both fell 200+ feet and were both healed by Stormlight while unconsious and nobody questions it, so why are we questioning that Jasnah couldn't unconsiously heal a wound to her heart? Kaladin & Shallan's injuries were likely much more severe and widespread. Thanks to Krenn for posting the approximate timeline, it's why doctors don't immediately call time of death when someone's heart stops beating, if they can get it restarted the person can live. I think so long as the access to Stormlight is there then the body can probably heal anything short of decapitation. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I don't know if there'd be enough time for Stormlight to heal a stab through the heart before dropping blood pressure led to unconsciousness? A few items. First, the book doesn't explicitly state that she was stabbed in the heart. It merely states that she was stabbed in the chest. It's entirely possible that the men attacking her were willing to depend on a punctured lung (which would kill anyone without access to modern medicine or stormlight) as opposed to a punctured heart. Second, the more problematic item from my pov is that she is apparently unconscious when Shallan discovers the attack. Presumably any subsequent healing would have been automatic, but I'm not sure how she would have transported herself while unconscious. Third, and finally, I'm skeptical about the idea of her preparing a duplicate beforehand. Remember that in WotK, Jasnah mentions that soulcasting organic materials is difficult for her (aside from blood). Preparing a convincing duplicate of a body would have required a lot of work, and might not have even been possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 She could have made a combat assessment, feigned unconsciousness, let herself be stabbed, and left after they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 She could have made a combat assessment, feigned unconsciousness, let herself be stabbed, and left after they did. While possible, it's mentioned that her eyes were "staring sightlessly". It's not impossible to fake that, but it's quite difficult (as opposed to when the individual's eyes are closed). Also, she manages to avoid flinching when stabbed a second time, which would also be quite difficult. Once again, I'm not saying that it's impossible. But it's not easy to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Kaladin & Shallan both fell 200+ feet and were both healed by Stormlight while unconsious and nobody questions it, so why are we questioning that Jasnah couldn't unconsiously heal a wound to her heart? Kaladin & Shallan's injuries were likely much more severe and widespread. Thanks to Krenn for posting the approximate timeline, it's why doctors don't immediately call time of death when someone's heart stops beating, if they can get it restarted the person can live. I think so long as the access to Stormlight is there then the body can probably heal anything short of decapitation. Mostly because of the timing. Kaladin and Shallan were unconscious for a while before the Stormlight finished healing them enough to wake up. Jasnah only had a few minutes at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Unless she was prepared and the one checking her pulse was actually working for her. Remember Jasnah was suddenly terrified of something that wasn't of the Voidbringers mare hours before the assassination attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azul Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I'm doubtful that Jasnah soulcast a copy of herself. If she had time to do so why would she bother with that and not just destroy her enemies as she did in the alley. For that matter why not just kill them with her shardblade? My guess is that her door was sabotaged by 'the new guy' which allowed her attackers to sneak up on her while sleeping. Suffering great wounds she passes out, but stormlight begins to heal her. She comes too as Shallan's illusion runs past. She is weak and unable to fight and knows the knoweldge she possesses must be preserved no matter the cost and either by skill or sheer luck manages to Transport herself off the ship. Thus when Shallan crawls back into the hallway and into Jasnah's room her body is missing (a copy would have still been in the hallway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavien Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Mostly because of the timing. Kaladin and Shallan were unconscious for a while before the Stormlight finished healing them enough to wake up. Jasnah only had a few minutes at most. The level of healing needed between the two is vast. When Kaladin and Shallan fell they likely broke almost every bone in their bodies on top of major organ damage plus brain damage. Jasnah had two(?) stab wounds to heal and we've seen cuts heal rather quickly, heck during the duel Kaladin broke both of his legs and his feet and was back up pretty quickly. Jasnah's injuries, while life threatening, did not require that much repair. I think that might be part of the disconnect, there is a different between how life threatening an injury is and how difficult it would be to repair. Having your pinky cut off isn't very life threatening but would be much harder to repair via regrowing than a slit throat which is extremely life threatening. Edited March 6, 2014 by Xavien 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I think you may be right. We don't know that she was stabbed through the heart, and either way, a stab wound is relatively quick to heal. She might have been able to heal it enough to not-die, then transit to Shadesmar pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banestar Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Jasnah's good at Soulcasting blood, right? So, I think it'd be possible for her to -- if she's as B.A. as we think she is -- soulcast part of a dagger as it hits her into, well, blood. That'd make for a nice fake-out. I mean, who says you *have* to lay hands on something to soulcast it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shards of Mist Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well, a lot also depends on how far along Jasnah is. Kaladin says the 3rd Ideal and his wounds are healed instantly. He also heals himself instantly from a shardblade cut during his second duel with Szeth. Even with only the 2nd Ideal, he heals himself from broken legs and a shardblade wound, although it takes a few moments to do so. A couple of stab wounds seem minor in comparison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Then she'd have to soulcast it back to the dagger, though, which would be a lot harder. And Jasnah says she's not good at organics. Blood is generally easier because it's one of the essences, but presumably still not as easy for her as smoke and fire. Another question is why didn't she just soulcast her attackers as she did before, rather than decide to play dead? I guess they could have been gone by the time that she was able to regain consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banestar Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The question "why would Jasnah decide to play dead?" seems pretty easy to answer -- at least generally. She's playing a lot of things close to the vest, she's part of a secret organization (or two, or three), and deception seems to come pretty easily to her. If someone's trying very hard to kill you, a better option just might be to let them think they succeeded rather than to give them an impetus to try, try again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonReborn Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Kaladin healed himself from a shardblade with stormilight. So i'm pretty sure Jasnah can heal herself from a knife would with stormlight. The knife would have just went through her and not hit any major organs/arteries. People survive from getting stabbed all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spark Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 So, either this could be Jasnah recreating her body, or this could be her preparing her fake body to fool the ghostbloods. Any thoughts? I read it like that too. The timing of the drawing - right after the one of Yalb and the rest of the ship's crew - makes it quite likely that this "vision" refers to Jasnah. I doubt that Shallan gets metaphorical visions, so I take it quite literally. If the vision doesn't show how Jasnah managed to "cheat death", then it shows what she's been up to at some point after the incident. In that case I would love to know what exactly. Oh and btw: Hello guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Well pattern was able to 'intercede' on Shallans behalf so why couldn't Jasnahs spren take her to shadesmare and heal her there? Also is everyone forgetting that Szeth fell from a great height after having his spine severed by a shardblade and he was able to be healed by Darkness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I read it like that too. The timing of the drawing - right after the one of Yalb and the rest of the ship's crew - makes it quite likely that this "vision" refers to Jasnah. I doubt that Shallan gets metaphorical visions, so I take it quite literally. If the vision doesn't show how Jasnah managed to "cheat death", then it shows what she's been up to at some point after the incident. In that case I would love to know what exactly. Oh and btw: Hello guys. I suspect someone would notice on board a ship, if she suddenly started carving or pounding out a fake version of herself Healing by stormlight makes the most sense, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shash Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Most important to note that is Shallan stumbles into Jasnah's room... and doesn't see a corpse. Stormlight heals basically everything. If she had a low-grade burn on, I think that would be sufficient. She might have had a Lightweaving fabrial. Darkness most likely does, so it's not like they don't exist. The knife went through her chest and right into the floor. Rather odd, I think, though I'm not a doctor. When all else fails, Soulcasting her body from thin air could be feasible. It doesn't explain why the 'corpse' disappeared, though. And if it wasn't a fake corpse, I don't know how Jasnah could have acted so well. The only thing that I can think of is that the Jasnah we saw getting murdered was actually Ivory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spark Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I suspect someone would notice on board a ship, if she suddenly started carving or pounding out a fake version of herself Healing by stormlight makes the most sense, I think. I sort of got the sense that it depicted how she was.. rescued? Well, I'm not making much sense right now. I blame the damnation drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Really I don't get all these wild theories. Fabrials, illusions, healings in Shadesmar..? Kaladin was in way worse conditions than 2 knife wounds, people. And Jasnah's been a surgebinder double the time Kaladin has been one. She healed herself with stormlight. Simple. More interesting is ... what's with the burns? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Really I don't get all these wild theories. Fabrials, illusions, healings in Shadesmar..? Kaladin was in way worse conditions than 2 knife wounds, people. And Jasnah's been a surgebinder double the time Kaladin has been one. She healed herself with stormlight. Simple. More interesting is ... what's with the burns? Um, Jasnah had a blade pierce her heart. I do think that's a serious condition Kaladin never experienced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udbw834 Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 In the epilogue I didn't get the impression that she'd faked her own death. I thought she'd returned as soon as she could, to wherever she could get to. Based on the description it doesn't sound like she's been off on a pleasure trip or even deep in study. It's quite possible this is the first time she's really used her Transportation surge. We know she's travelled to Shadesmar before but each time we know about it returned her exactly where she left. Remember from Pattern and Syl we know that they can't teach Surgebinders how to use their powers they have to figure them out for themselves. My theory: When she was stabbed and dying she used her second surge to really Transport herself to Shadesmar. It took her a while to travel through Shadesmar to somewhere she could emerge again on Roshar. She talked about things she learned on the other side so it's possible she took some side trips as well. But fundamentally I think she is simply not very good at teleporting yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shash Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Really I don't get all these wild theories. Fabrials, illusions, healings in Shadesmar..? Kaladin was in way worse conditions than 2 knife wounds, people. And Jasnah's been a surgebinder double the time Kaladin has been one. She healed herself with stormlight. Simple. More interesting is ... what's with the burns? I don't think it is that simple. Kaladin has had dozens and dozens of small wounds that, together, would have been fatal. He's never been dealt a mortal blow like a knife through the heart. I think Stormlight heals those smaller wounds, keeping you in fighting shape. I think you'd need Regrowth to fix the damage Jasnah's body was dealt. That's just too much for Stormlight. That's why I'd guess that Ivory had something to do with her mysterious survival. Perhaps he was acting as a body double through a clever manipulation of Soulcasting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericth Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Forgive me if I seem dense but I don't quite understand how Jasnah could have faked her own death. She's not a Lightweaver so it wasn't an illusion. I read a suggestion where she Soulcast a copy of herself--but that seems like it would be really difficult, since she'd have had to also do the clothing, jewelry, etc. If she had time to soulcast something that complex, she could have just as easily soulcast the attackers into flame, like she did with the thugs in the alley during WoK. Maybe the transition into Shadesmar saved her? Do you bleed or absolutely need a physical body there? The knife retaining the force to "thunk" audibly into the floor implies an illusion to me, but raises the question of how Jasnah managed it. It's not an ability we associate with her. Sticking an actual body would require tremendous force to go through with enough force to make that kind of sound. Perhaps her spren did it? Edited March 6, 2014 by ericth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 The knife retaining the force to "thunk" audibly into the floor implies an illusion to me, but raises the question of how Jasnah managed it. It's not an ability we associate with her. Sticking an actual body would require tremendous force to go through with enough force to make that kind of sound. Perhaps her spren did it? But the lack of resistance that an illusion provides would give the game away immediately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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