How did Jasnah...(Spoilers)

[RShara]

Forgive me if I seem dense but I don't quite understand how Jasnah could have faked her own death.  She's not a Lightweaver so it wasn't an illusion. 

I read a suggestion where she Soulcast a copy of herself--but that seems like it would be really difficult, since she'd have had to also do the clothing, jewelry, etc.  If she had time to soulcast something that complex, she could have just as easily soulcast the attackers into flame, like she did with the thugs in the alley during WoK.

Maybe the transition into Shadesmar saved her?  Do you bleed or absolutely need a physical body there?

Edited March 8, 2014 by RShara

[Ness]

I have a lot of trouble figuring this out as well.  My thought is maybe she used her second surge to go to Shadesmar, and got the highspren to help/heal her.

[Moogle]

Most important to note that is Shallan stumbles into Jasnah's room... and doesn't see a corpse. Stormlight heals basically everything. If she had a low-grade burn on, I think that would be sufficient.

 

She might have had a Lightweaving fabrial. Darkness most likely does, so it's not like they don't exist. The knife went through her chest and right into the floor. Rather odd, I think, though I'm not a doctor.

 

When all else fails, Soulcasting her body from thin air could be feasible. It doesn't explain why the 'corpse' disappeared, though.

 

And if it wasn't a fake corpse, I don't know how Jasnah could have acted so well.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Moogle

[Too Much Awesomeness]

One of her surge powers is apparently Transportation, which explains (though we don't know the method) how she got out.  But I don't understand how that knife could go through her and hit the wood below like that without killing her.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Too Much Awesomeness

[Azul]

I was trying to think of crazy things when I first read it, mainly due to panic..  like her soulcasting a copy or hoping transportation was like Tesla's machine in The Prestige   Stormlight healing seems a bit too easy but its likely just that simple. 

[RShara]

When Shallan first goes into the room, she sees Jasnah's body on the floor, a bloodstain on the front, and the assassin shoving the knife hard enough to thump on the floor under the body.

 

She doesn't see it the second time, when she barricades it against them, after she Lightweaves.

[DefiantBurrito]

I think the simplest explanation is that Stormlight healing saved her from the knife thrust, and then she realized she was in trouble and teleported away while the assassins were distracted.

 

Running away and leaving Shallan in danger doesn't particularly seem like Jasnah... but I can think of several explanations for that.  Still seems more likely to me than some kind of soulcast "body double" or illusion.

[marianmi]

Yeah, pretty simple ...

 

They stabbed her... twice... so stormlight healed her...

No issue... Then water came, and she Transported to Shadesmar...

 

Don't see any issue there... Healing from a knife wound seems way easier than the instant reknitting or healing shardbalde wounds happening to Kaladin or Szeth...

[Krenn]

One of her surge powers is apparently Transportation, which explains (though we don't know the method) how she got out.  But I don't understand how that knife could go through her and hit the wood below like that without killing her.

 

simplest explanation is that it DID kill her. 

assuming modern human biology, and no major blood loss, The death sequence should go like this:

Jasnah takes a knife through the heart. The moment that happens, she stops pumping blood, and her lungs stop transferring  oxygen to her bloodstream. her body only has access to whatever oxygen was stored in each cell when the heart stopped.

Muscles should drop below minimum oxygen level after about 5 seconds. Brain should lose consciousness after about 20 seconds, and permanent brain damage or brain death should occur after about 5 minutes.

So, the timeline is:

T+0s: Jasnah takes a knife through the heart.

T+5s: Jasnah loses the ability to move her muscles.

T+20s: Jasnah blacks out

T+300s: Jasnah is brain dead.

If we assume that Jasnah can still cast and use stormlight in the same way she can stay conscious or use her muscles...

that gives her 5 to 20 seconds to do something clever. To the best of our knowledge, stormlight can't heal a major wound to the heart, brain, or spine. But she might be able to do something simpler. especially if she had a preliminary plan in place BEFORE she was stabbed.

 

Jasnah might have sent her MIND to the Spren world, but left her body behind. which would explain why it took so long to rebuild her body and re-appear in the real world.

She might have had a mindless clone prepared ahead of time in the Spren world, and transferred her mind into that.

She may have started to transfer to the Spren World just BEFORE being stabbed through the heart, and gotten stuck with portions of her mind or body in both places.

all sorts of possibilites exist, if we assume that a knife to the heart isn't INSTANTLY fatal.  Next time, The assassins should probably try for a knife to the brain instead.

[Voidus]

I think it would have been much easier to soulcast the knife than a fake body, don't know if she could do it quickly enough, Soulcast it into smoke so it looks like it hit her, then quickly change it back when it's withdrawn, make a little bit of blood so it looks like a wound, wait for everyone to leave then teleport out.

[Aminar]

Remember Stormight replaces the need for Oxygen. Really think on that as far as staying alive for a moment.

From there she Elsecall teleports herself somewhere with different natural laws (Shadesmar) and continues to heal or somewhere with lots of infused spheres and holds her breath till things heal.

[Krenn]

Remember Stormight replaces the need for Oxygen. Really think on that as far as staying alive for a moment.

From there she Elsecall teleports herself somewhere with different natural laws (Shadesmar) and continues to heal or somewhere with lots of infused spheres and holds her breath till things heal.

it does? do we have an example of someone continuing to function underwater or at very high altitude, using stormlight instead of oxygen?

I'm assuming that stormlight operates separately from oxygen, to achieve slightly different goals.

[Aminar]

Szeth doesn't breathe for minutes at a time while holding Stormlight. Kal flies with it without plate. It's pretty heavily implied.

[Awesomeness Summoned]

it does? do we have an example of someone continuing to function underwater or at very high altitude, using stormlight instead of oxygen?

I'm assuming that stormlight operates separately from oxygen, to achieve slightly different goals.

There are multiple instances of kaladin holding his breath for 15-20 minutes at a time or more while holding stormlight. That wouldn't be possible unless stormlight could replace the need for oxygen.

[zebobes]

I think we have a hint in one of Shallan's drawings. In chapter 30, Shallan is spacing out and draws 

 

...a rocky shore near the ocean, with distinctive cliffs rising behind. The perspective was distant; on the rocky shore, several shadowy figures helped one another out of the water. She swore one of them was Yalb. 

 

So that means Yalb is alive, and then--

 

 

She turned the page and drew what came to her. A sketch of a woman kneeling over a body, raising a hammer and chisel, as if to slam it down into the person's face. The one beneath her was stiff, wooden... maybe even stone?

 

So, either this could be Jasnah recreating her body, or this could be her preparing her fake body to fool the ghostbloods. Any thoughts?

[Natans]

Szeth received several deadly wounds in his batles and he cured himself almost immediately, they catched Jasnah off guard and later but she recupered herself and transported to Shadesmare( or potentially other wolrds) there she cured herself.

 

In true Hoid said that she had information that him wanted, so I kind believe that she teleported to other Wolrd and got stucked for a time.

 

I will look for a Jasnah Cameo in Brandon next works.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Natans

[Daishi5]

I thought the woman taking a chisel to a stone woman was Shallash destroying a statue, rather than relating to Jasnah.  

[Gancho]

I think it's likely that Jasnah survived via some combo of stormlight healing and transport surge, but If she used stormlight to heal, how come she wasn't glowing when Shal saw her?

[Gancho]

Also, any chance Yalb is a herald or something?

[Seerow]

I doubt Yalb is a herald, but I hope he did survive miraculously somehow. He was a lot of fun, and seeing Shallan react to him after her growth in WoR would be something.

[RShara]

It took time for Szeth to heal his wounds with Stormlight though.  The small ones heal over pretty much right away, but the bigger ones take time.  I don't know if there'd be enough time for Stormlight to heal a stab through the heart before dropping blood pressure led to unconsciousness?

[shadewolf]

I doubt Yalb is a herald, but I hope he did survive miraculously somehow. He was a lot of fun, and seeing Shallan react to him after her growth in WoR would be something.

 

Halfway through the book, shallan was drawing random scenes. One of these scene was of a women breaking something with hammer and chisel, the other was of yalb and other sailors surviving and reaching land. I think shallan was drawing things that had already happened, I don't know how, but I do believe that Yalb survived.

[Aminar]

It took time for Szeth to heal his wounds with Stormlight though.  The small ones heal over pretty much right away, but the bigger ones take time.  I don't know if there'd be enough time for Stormlight to heal a stab through the heart before dropping blood pressure led to unconsciousness?

Except that Stormlight seems to negate the need for blood pressure. It gives the body energy and replaces oxygen, nullifying the need for bloodflow temporarily. There are two causes of death in humans. Brain failure due to lack of Oxygen and Brain failure due to trauma to the brain. Stormlight nullifies one of those... Basically that means in theory the only way to kill someone infused with stormlight is to destroy the brain. Or shardblade them. If she could hold enough stormlight to give her the time to make up for the bloodloss she could pretty much ignore the stab wounds. Also Sormlight is OP...

[Aleksiel]

I believe Jasnas was stabbed with that sword, caught off guard. However, Shallan knocked off a goblet of spheres on the floor of her cabin when she woke up and some of them could have easily rolled out of the door to Jasnah. That way she gained enough stormlight to heal anything fatal and transported herself to Shadesmar.

 

None of this requires Jasnah to be fully conscious, though she'd had to be able to breathe in the stormlight, but an assassin checked upon her. So could that one be someone she had hired to help her fake her death? She was expecting something horrible that night as she was utterly terrified and I think even Jasnah's tranquility can be broken by the fear of unsuccessfully faked death. However, I can't imagine Jasnah putting Shallan in such danger and she couldn't have relied on the possibility of Shallan accidentally throwing stormlight at her. 

 

Note that Jasnah is at least on her third Words as she can form a Shardblade, which means stormlight is far more potent for her and a few sphere's could have been all she needed to survive. 

[RShara]

Hmm that's true.  With enough Stormlight she might have been able to compensate for lack of bloodflow+oxygen long enough to transition to Shadesmar, then heal herself.