[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[hypatia she/her]

To the problem with history of Roshar:

We have also this WoB that the Herdazian and Horneater predate the arrival of Honor and Cultivation.

Doesn't this mean there was human population on the planet before the Odium-newcomers came?

The Shin?

This would also explain what Honor was doing before the second wave - the Listener weren't of Honor but of Cultivation and without someone else he wouldn't have had a purpose.

Perhaps with the Eshonai book (RiP) we will get the more ancient history.

[Hemalurgic Headshot he/him]

So just finished the book (this is a thread for reactions, right?) and all I can do is scream.

Dalinar is so much more the man than I thought he was prior. He has evolved, I felt his pain, and he is the closest thing to Honor since He died.

Moash is no more, if you read closely. He is Vyre now. Those hoping for redemption will find none, and I'm quite sure his POVs will change drastically. He has literally taken on a new persona. But there are quite a few things that need to be filled in, presumably by other characters' interactions. First, the blade. It is different... and I'm not sure how. The other things, I probably don't realize yet.

Vivenna made a new sword. They made a better Nightblood, one with more reservations and possibly more/less powerful. Recall that she is careful pulling it from its sheath while in Shadesmar, explaining that it needs to become familiar with the wielder. There definitely needs to be a Warbreaker sequel.

Chiri-Chiri!!!!!!!! I love this little thing. I picture it like a little greatshell dragon. And Rysn has grown. The Wandersail? I think we should expect some interesting adventures from these two in coming books.

Elhokar's son will be important... perhaps in Arc 2. I don't think he would be saved for no reason, the poor kid's parents both gone.

Teft, oh Teft. I love this man, I could feel his struggle. He deserved Knighthood.

On the topic of the Knights, LOPEN! Honestly, his spren will just be as naughty as he is.

Onto matters of heavier weight: Odium. I expected that Brandon would not just give us a one-dimensional villain, no no no. I did not expect for him to be so much of a challenge! He literally represents the flaw in the glorious idea that we had of Roshar, and his cords are so tight, it seems that it will take so much more than whats available to stop him. Taravangian... that was unexpected. To be a willing servant of Odium the whole time? I had supposed that the Diagram was a twisted means of defeating Odium, but it seems like it was the opposite. But we can see that Odium lacks detail: which is why he needs the Diagram. I feel this is just one clash of many to come, a chess match, best two-out-of-three. Perhaps Dalinar was able to recover some lost ground, but nearly the whole of Roshar lies in Odium's grasp, and the coalition is crippled. Perhaps they might need some off-world assisstance.

And I can say I was right about Shinovar, kind of. I knew that Shinovar was transplanted, in a sense it was. The local flora and fauna had been displaced by the immigrant humans, and this is why the Shin look most like the humans of the rest of the Cosmere. But on how they got there... the Dawnshards. I'm sure that this will be answered, like so many of the questions we had for Oathbringer.

As for our favorite protagonists, protagonist stuff. I thought it was interesting, to see all of them, but it got thrown around quite a bit. The less seen characters were better. I liked seen Renarin, and having a Sja-aran spren? Unexpected and full of possibilities! Jasnah, now monarch and with more knowledge than before, Navani, going to give me those FLYING SHIPS!!! Lift, doing awesome things. Szeth. So... rigid. The problem is, we don't see enough of his true transformation I feel, what happened before he became the Assassin in White. He was forced into become a Skybreaker, pounded into the mold. He trained with all ten of the Surges, and trained with the Honorblades back in Shinovar. Stones Unhallowed will bring me answers.

[Aleksiel]

22 minutes ago, hypatia said:

To the problem with history of Roshar:

We have also this WoB that the Herdazian and Horneater predate the arrival of Honor and Cultivation.

Doesn't this mean there was human population on the planet before the Odium-newcomers came?

The Shin?

This would also explain what Honor was doing before the second wave - the Listener weren't of Honor but of Cultivation and without someone else he wouldn't have had a purpose.

Perhaps with the Eshonai book (RiP) we will get the more ancient history.

Hmm, I'm not so sure. Here's what you are referring to:

 

Quote

 

HorseCannon

I didn't realize horneaters had parshmen blood, didn't even realize that was possible. How closely are humans and parshmen related, do they have a common ancestor? Or is one an artificially created version of the other?

Brandon Sanderson

There was intermixing long ago. Horneaters and Herdazians are both a result. (Signs of this are the stone carapace on Herdazian fingernails and the Horneater extra jaw pieces--in the back of the mouth--for breaking shells.)

Humans and parshmen don't have a common ancestor. And as a side note, both of these strains of humanoids predate the ascension of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium.

Blightsong

*via private message*

Some of us believe that you are saying that humans and listeners existed pre-Shattering while some of us believe that you are saying that Horneaters and Herdazians existed pre-Shattering (you have mentioned that humans had been on Roshar since before the Shattering recently). What were you trying to say here?

Brandon Sanderson

Humans (other than those on Yolen) existed pre-Shattering, as did parshmen.

 

Footnote: Blightsong's parenthetical statement is mistaken; there is no source claiming that humans had been on Roshar since before the Shattering.

 

 

Side note: It's so nice to be able to find a WoB easily and from the first try, thank you all who created Arcanum, you guys are amazing!

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

Gonna go through and read everything that I've missed over the next couple days, but for now, all have to say is this:

"I emerge from my coma, a heavy book in my hands, and I know that I have read true glory."

[DiamondMind he/him]

I haven't read all the reactions up to now, but does anyone understand why Mr. T decided to switch to Odium's side at the end of the book? I thought he just wanted to discredit Dalinar and take up the resistance himself. But not only does he leave, he opens an Oathgate for the Voidbringers and attacks Bridge 4 to steal the Honorblade. Then he meets with Odium and decides to capitulate completely? It doesn't seem to make any sense.

[aemetha he/him]

It was always Mr T's plan to join Odium. He sought to unite as much of the world under his control, and then negotiate with Odium from a position of strength. Odium wasn't having any of that though, and Mr T ended up with significantly less than he had hoped for.

[DiamondMind he/him]

38 minutes ago, aemetha said:

It was always Mr T's plan to join Odium

I don't remember that at all. My impression from his chapters was that he wants to unite the world to oppose Odium. I'll have to go back.

[TenthPancake]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:01 AM, Pattern said:

It is possible for the KR to become helpful for both races, we already see Venli bonding a Radiant spren, a thing not possible in the past. On the other hand, Renarin has accidentally bonded a corrupted spren (Sja-anat) but he is far from hateful. Renarin is the wildcard, Odium cannot see.

Is Venli's sprena radiant spren or a sja - anat one?

[Hawkido]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:52 PM, SLNC said:

That is how I understood it. The spren (being of Honor and Cultivation) chose to bond with the humans, and the listeners then turned to Odium. It is also said that Honor apparently loved humankind... So there probably was some kind of worship going on.

I believe Dalanar made a statement to the point that without choice there cannot be honor... that I feel is why Honor favored the Humans over the Parshendi, the Parshendi seem to have very little choice when it comes to spren.  Also somehow Cultivation had a hand in making the Parshendi, I feel she changed them to be the trap for Odium, perhaps that is why they became less favored to Honor, so easy for them to bind him to the system by inherently bonding to his power.  Remember the Parasaphni story from the end of Way of Kings, sounds alot like Cultivation creating/recreating peoples. but I am full of crack brained ideas so laugh at them if you wanna.

[TalenelStonesiniew]

I have an theory. Kaladin is going to become a Herald. We know that this series is going to be split in two subseries of 5, with a number of years between them. We also have a better understanding of how the oathpact works, and the consequences for the Heralds. With Jezrain, Herald of the Windrunners dead, someone will need to take his place to fulfill the Oathpact. My general inclination is that the end of the 5th book will result in a draw between the Honor/Cultivation and Odium, and the Oathpact will be enacted. Kaladin, who will be a 5th heightening Windrunner by the end of the 5th book, will take Jezrain's place in locking Odium up, back on Braize, with all the consequences that entitles. If other Heralds die to Moash's blade, then their highest ranking Radiant will take their place in Braize. We could see Shallan, Jasnah, etc; all being the replacements for the the Heralds of their respective order fulfilling the Oathpact at the end of the desolation. 

The second half of Stormlight archive starts when one of the heralds breaks, and starts another desolation. My guess will be Taln breaks. He's held out for 4500 years, and his mind is already broken. It wouldn't take much to break it again. So we get a second desolation for the second half of the series, 10-15 years after the end of book 5.

[DSC01 he/him]

1 hour ago, TenthPancake said:

Is Venli's sprena radiant spren or a sja - anat one?

Regular Radiant spren, I believe. There was no evidence of Sja-Anat being active until recently (that we saw). Even though she isn't an "area effect"-type Unmade, like Moelach and Nergaoul, this makes her effects even more localized because she's more like a single person than a huge force blanketing an entire area. If any had been spreading out at all, they likely would have been noticed. It had been around a while, as it was also the spren that wanted to bond Eshonai [aside: my phone attempted an unfortunate, if humorous, autocorrect right there, as I narrowly avoided missing "bond" being falsely corrected to "bone"]. I believe the explanation she gives Venli is that she was traumatized by her grandfather's death in the Recreance and therefore sought a Listener host instead.

[frozndevl]

Quote

The soldiers started visibly. Yes, they could see the brands. Shallan’s illusion had worn off for some reason? Hopefully the other disguises fared better.

Did this little exchange ever get resolved? It's when Kaladin meets the wall guard squad.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

5 hours ago, DiamondMind said:

I haven't read all the reactions up to now, but does anyone understand why Mr. T decided to switch to Odium's side at the end of the book? I thought he just wanted to discredit Dalinar and take up the resistance himself. But not only does he leave, he opens an Oathgate for the Voidbringers and attacks Bridge 4 to steal the Honorblade. Then he meets with Odium and decides to capitulate completely? It doesn't seem to make any sense.

What T did was completely unsurprising for me. Yielding to Odium was always at the top of my list of what I expected the Diagram to do. He just wanted to take over all the world to yield to Odium, hoping Odium would then spare all the world as his servant (T) was ruling it. Of course that plan proved to be as smart as could be expected. This was heavily implied it was coming in WoR, and there was further confirmation in OB when Mrall was growing uncomfortable with what they were doing and asking if there was a chance they could fight and win. The "smart people" (Adrotagia and T that day ) both totally ignored such stupidity and naiveness. That was one of the most clear signs of what the Diagram was.

4 hours ago, TenthPancake said:

Is Venli's sprena radiant spren or a sja - anat one?

I suspect a radiant normal one.

13 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

Did this little exchange ever get resolved? It's when Kaladin meets the wall guard squad.

Lol. That was funny. Kaladin didn't like illusions because they felt like lies. Even in WoK Kaladin was deeply uncomfortable with tiny lies and misdirection, because Syl didn't like them. I suspect Windrunners were nearly incapable of lying. And by extension illusions likely slid off them as they (and their spren) dissapproved of the lie inherent in them.

Of course could just be my impression and there could be something more behind it .

Edited November 18, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Fineous he/him]

I assumed it was because of 'Azure' being a Bio-Chromatic from Nalthis.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Fineous

[Sigsyl]

Just random questions:

What do you think Hoid was asking for in the letters that we saw replies to in the epigraphs? Help against Odium? But would that involve those shards leaving their worlds?

I'm also very curious to know what Odium's "conduit of freedom" in Thaylen City was. Was it merely Dalinar as his champion, or is there something else he wanted? 

I am really impressed by whichever courier service Hoid uses to deliver letters to all these shards. They really go the extra mile. 

[Aleksiel]

Was anyone else surprised Szeth chose to follow Dalinar? At first I though he was talking about Kal. When exactly did Szeth have time to learn enough about Dalinar to view him as worthy leader?

[Kasimir he/him]

So, just finished Oathbringer after staying up 'till about 11AM to finish this. (I don't recommend it, and there were other factors...) I generally really liked the book, although I was somewhat surprised to discover the Sadeas thread ended up being more or less a non-issue. But maybe this will become a deal later on, especially if others find out.

Thoughts/Questions:
-I wonder what someone burning malatium would see if they looked at Moash...
-Pattern for MVP! No mating!
-I just enjoyed pretty much every character's appearance here, including Szeth and Nale. Though now I really want to know how Nale would react to Zhuangzi's dilemma.
-Adolin and Renarin are surprisingly well-adjusted, given their past. What with Dalinar's BSOD after Evi's death, and in the first place, Dalinar's constant absences.
-Shadesmar and the spren: I liked getting to see what was there, looking at spren societies, etcetera.
-I was ambivalent but now I really hope Adolin and Maya forge some kind of bond. Doesn't have to be Nahel, I'd happily go for friendship as long as Maya is revived, though I'm increasingly enjoying the idea of Edgedancer!Adolin.
-The issue with the Fused seems way about the KR paygrade. How do you even go about seeking reconciliation and making restitution for something as enormous as killing the ancient singers and stealing their homelands?
-Elhokar...why D: Eshonai too. Any character whose name begins with 'E' is at risk--quick, burn your glyphwards!

[Darvys]

15 minutes ago, Aleksiel said:

Was anyone else surprised Szeth chose to follow Dalinar? At first I though he was talking about Kal. When exactly did Szeth have time to learn enough about Dalinar to view him as worthy leader?

I might be wrong, but i think it had to do with who followed him and who sought to oppose him. You have Taravangian whom Szeth probably considers evil trying to murder a man served by a Windrunner because he would be an impediment to his plans, add to that the way Dalinar acted in his few interactions with Szeth and it's not too shocking. Though i myself was surprised at first.

[Starla]

10 hours ago, TenthPancake said:

Is Venli's sprena radiant spren or a sja - anat one?

I was under the impression that Timbre is Captain Ico's daughter. His father also was a nahel bond spren and was killed in the recreance. We saw the dad locked in a cabin with Maya on the ship. I am guessing the Reachers (lightspren) are Willshaper spren.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Starla
added "lightspren"

[DSC01 he/him]

41 minutes ago, winter devotion said:

Don’t you mean

a humerous misspelling? *wink*

All right, have an upvote--but I really shouldn't be encouraging such behavior.

[Stormcage Cotto]

The series being called The Stormlight Archive suddenly makes a lot more sense after they found the library.

[ggscv]

Anyone feel like Adolin will be the next to die? He doesn't have a POV/flashback scene lined up in for the coming books, he's not a Radiant, he's relatively expendable in terms of storyline importance and if he dies, Kaladin will be there to comfort Shallan. I feel like this Sadeas murder thing is far from over and will come back to haunt him.

[Jenet]

Hi!

I am new to this forum, but have been a fan since The Way of Kings. I just finished Oathbringer, and it more than fulfilled my expectations. My reactions:

I am always learning so much about myself when reading. I love to get surprised and intrigued by the characters and their development. Sometimes I guess what's coming, sometimes I am surprised, but I don't really care as long as the descriptions are so good that I literally cry, cheer or get goosebumps all over. I did that all the time when reading OB, perhaps even more than with the previous two. 

What impressed me most:

1. Kaladin: He knows what the words of his next ideal is, but he can't bring himself to say them, even though he knows he can save Adolin and all the others by doing it. That means this is a really, really difficult thing for him, and that these ideals are not for everyone to go through. I think this ideal has something to do with his (in)ability to forgive himself, to stop criticizing himself, to embrace his responsibility on a higher level in peace and serenity. Kaladin is so full of guilt feelings, and has many symptoms of a deep depression, and such a thing is not easy to just put aside by swearing that you will change. I have no idea how Sanderson will express this for Kaladin, but that is what I love to wait for. 

2. Shallan and her creative way to cope with her insecurities. And how Wit and Adolin in different ways help her calm down and realize that she is good enough and that she can be everything that she wants and still be Shallan. As a teacher I often would have liked to let mye pupils try out different sides of themselves in the same way. It is much easier to try out different sides of your personality while in disguise. Friends and other people who know you, tend to preserve you in one role, and especially shy people do often not dare to challenge how other people see them. Renarin seems to feel the same.

3. Dalinar. All of it. His struggles with the thrill and the heart of the revel. I wonder if he was challenged by all of the unmade all his life. Surrounded by them just as in the vision. Dalinar is such a fantastic character, and the fact that he has gone through all that and still manages to be a good man makes me love the character even more.

4. Forgiveness!

5. How some "bad guys" turn around and join the good guys, and how others just lose it. Moash, Amaram, Sadeas and Taravangian. I had hopes for them, but I see how they never really did regret anything of the evil things they had done. And that is why there never was any hope for them. They never admit that some - or all - of their wrongdoings was their own fault. They blame others. Dalinar also blamed others in the beginning, but what changes everything is that he asks for forgiveness. He admits that it was his own fault. Even though he actually was under the influence of the unmade. I just love how he becomes really powerful because he has shown that he can handle that kind of power and the temptations that come with it.

6. Jasnah. Queen! Of course. She is the obvious heir, and very accomplished in so many areas, and the Alethi finally stops with their silly gender rubbish that has made all sorts of trouble for them. Dalinar learns to write! And is the author of the book! 

7. Shallan uses her safehand to fight her first unmade. Is this a sign that there is special power in using your left hand? Especially for women? The Vorin church has been trying to hide a lot of what the Radiants could do. Are all these gender rules were made to prevent people from rediscovering their powers? 

8. Bridge four. Skar teaching, Lopen just saying the ideal by telling one of his stories. Rock. His family and his shooting. And Teft. Goodness, Teft.. The diversity!

9. I love the way it seems they are going to upend eveything. The heralds, the Radiants, the Unmade, the spren, the countries, the listeners/humans, men/women, there are no fixed boxes any longer. And we believe that there is hope because the cards are shuffled anew. Because Talenel resisted. I love his reaction. He was happy! 

10. Adolin. He is such a gem. I love that Brandon dares to describe such a hero. The anti-hero is more modern and common, but I like how Shallan settles with him anyway. He is not boring. He is just strong and genuine, and that is very difficult to describe in an interesting way. I think Sanderson manages just that. I have high hopes for his shardblade. I am looking forward to see what happens with Maya, and I don't want to speculate. It's going to be fun anyway.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Jenet
typos

[TalenelStonesiniew]

22 minutes ago, Jenet said:

Hi!

I am new to this forum, but have been a fan since The Way of Kings. I just finished Oathbringer, and it more than fulfilled my expectations. My reactions:

I am always learning so much about myself when reading. I love to get surprised and intrigued by the characters and their development. Sometimes I guess what's coming, sometimes I am surprised, but I don't really care as long as the descriptions are so good that I literally cry, cheer or get goosebumps all over. I did that all the time when reading OB, perhaps even more than with the previous two. 

What impressed me most:

1. Kaladin: He knows what the words of his next ideal is, but he can't bring himself to say them, even though he knows he can save Adolin and all the others by doing it. That means this is a really, really difficult thing for him, and that these ideals are not for everyone to go through. I think this ideal has something to do with his (in)ability to forgive himself, to stop criticizing himself, to embrace his responsibility on a higher level in peace and serenity. Kaladin is so full of guilt feelings, and has many symptoms of a deep depression, and such a thing is not easy to just put aside by swearing that you will change. I have no idea how Sanderson will express this for Kaladin, but that is what I love to wait for. 

2. Shallan and her creative way to cope with her insecurities. And how Wit and Adolin in different ways help her calm down and realize that she is good enough and that she can be everything that she wants and still be Shallan. As a teacher I often would have liked to let mye pupils try out different sides of themselves in the same way. It is much easier to try out different sides of your personality while in disguise. Friends and other people who know you, tend to preserve you in one role, and especially shy people do often not dare to challenge how other people see them. Renarin seems to feel the same.

3. Dalinar. All of it. His struggles with the thrill and the heart of the revel. I wonder if he was challenged by all of the unmade all his life. Surrounded by them just as in the vision. Dalinar is such a fantastic character, and the fact that he has gone through all that and still manages to be a good man makes me love the character even more.

4. Forgiveness!

5. How some "bad guys" turn around and join the good guys, and how others just lose it. Moash, Amaram, Sadeas and Taravangian. I had hopes for them, but I see how they never really did regret anything of the evil things they had done. And that is why there never was any hope for them. They never admit that some - or all - of their wrongdoings was their own fault. They blame others. Dalinar also blamed others in the beginning, but what changes everything is that he asks for forgiveness. He admits that it was his own fault. Even though he actually was under the influence of the unmade. I just love how he becomes really powerful because he has shown that he can handle that kind of power and the temptations that come with it.

6. Jasnah. Queen! Of course. She is the obvious heir, and very accomplished in so many areas, and the Alethi finally stops with their silly gender rubbish that has made all sorts of trouble for them. Dalinar learns to write! And is the author of the book! 

7. Shallan uses her safehand to fight her first unmade. Is this a sign that there is special power in using your left hand? Especially for women? The Vorin church has been trying to hide a lot of what the Radiants could do. Are all these gender rules were made to prevent people from rediscovering their powers? 

8. Bridge four. Skar teaching, Lopen just saying the ideal by telling one of his stories. Rock. His family and his shooting. And Teft. Goodness, Teft.. The diversity!

9. I love the way it seems they are going to upend eveything. The heralds, the Radiants, the Unmade, the spren, the countries, the listeners/humans, men/women, there are no fixed boxes any longer. And we believe that there is hope because the cards are shuffled anew. Because Talenel resisted. I love his reaction. He was happy! 

10. Adolin. He is such a gem. I love that Brandon dares to describe such a hero. The anti-hero is more modern and common, but I like how Shallan settles with him anyway. He is not boring. He is just strong and genuine, and that is very difficult to describe in an interesting way. I think Sanderson manages just that. I have high hopes for his shardblade. I am looking forward to see what happens with Maya, and I don't want to speculate. It's going to be fun anyway.

Great post Jenet. I just wanted to say I totally agree with you about point #1. Kaladin's 4th oath is going to involve self forgiveness in some way. He's very similar to Rand al'Thor in his carrying the burden of guilt for those who have died under the aegis of his protection. He'll have to learn that he can't save everyone, and he can't hold himself as a failure for that.

[Jenet]

24 minutes ago, TalenelStonesiniew said:

Great post Jenet. I just wanted to say I totally agree with you about point #1. Kaladin's 4th oath is going to involve self forgiveness in some way. He's very similar to Rand al'Thor in his carrying the burden of guilt for those who have died under the aegis of his protection. He'll have to learn that he can't save everyone, and he can't hold himself as a failure for that.

Thanks!

I agree, also with the comparison to Rand al'Thor. What impresses me a great deal, is that this ideal is so difficult for Kaladin that he actually refuses to protect people he loves by refusing to swear the ideal. Syl says she understands. So, Kaladin risks that Adolin (acutely) and Dalinar and his soldiers on the other side of the Oathgate dies. As far as he knows at that moment, they will die unless he swears the oath. I think the ideal goes deep into the very reason behind Kaladins depression and guilt. And I don't necessarily think that he has other secrets that we have not heard of, which he may or may not have. But there may also be something in his character, his pride, that prevents him, something that he cannot see and get himself disentangled from. Isn't Navani teasing Dalinar somewhere because he is indulging in his guilt? You can actually be so obsessed with your guilt that you sort of refuse to let go of it, especially if you also suffer from a decent amount of pride. Which I think Kaladin does...