[OB] Oathbringer 4-6

[Hoids Imaginary Friend]

Anyone else feeling a brand healing coming from the aftermath of Kals super punch? You know, hes decided to not let the storms dictate his moods. Thats a big step for our lil kala'boy

Im seeing Kal give a super glare to the guards as they get all huffy. Someone calls him a slave and he notices a charged sphere or two has popped out of Roshone, steals some light and does the glowing thing, levitates for effect and proclaims...

"I am Kaladin Stormblessed! I am not a slave!!" Fist pumps the air. "Bridge 4!!" Syl appears full sized giving kal an amused reprimanding look and says.. "well that was a bit dramatic"

Perfect moment for some brand healing.

** sigh ** 

Im probably way off again, but you know what they say.. "If its not canonised a boys allowed to dream"

 ahem... you girls can dream too 

!~ HIF ~!

[yulerule]

I've never liked Moash, he always felt a little "off" to me. My opinion is influenced by my feelings, so I think he's going to stay an antagonist. No redemption arc or anything.  The most will probably a deathbed sentence/clue that helps the heroes, maybe. 

As for Elhokar, I have nothing against him, and think he'll become a Radiant, and due to that the issues between him and Dalinar will be resolved/smoothed over.

I'm leaning in the direction that Adolin will not become a Radiant, but will totally stay a good guy. Sadeas needed to be killed, Dalinar is simply blinded by their former friendship. 

Oh, and I read "The Thrill" and my take on it is that if we had read those chapters first, if that was our introduction to Dalinar, we wouldn't like him, we would see him as a villain and as a bad guy, and we might not trust him now. Since we met him now, as a good guy, our perceptions are colored by that so its much easier to excuse his evil/villainous actions as we already like and trust him.

[+robardin he/him]

3 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Anyone else like Moash besides me? I often like it when heroes have dissenters...no one reason he should have immediately put his faith in Kal. I'm really looking forward to his PoV chapters.

I don't fault Moash for being initially hostile to Kaladin's overtures - everybody in Bridge Four was. Even in the "kata demo" scene I mentioned, Sigzil was right there with Moash ridiculing the "lordling with airs". And his refusal to hero-worship Kaladin is one of the things that made Kaladin value him as a friend, that he was honest with him.

It's Moash's betrayal at the end of Words of Radiance of Kaladin's friendship, of his command, of his trust, and of his very life, that seal the book. That's not just "dissent" or "being independent". He literally owes Kaladin everything that he is, from being alive at all, to having fighting skills, to having Shards.

I suspect he may have a redemptive arc, and would welcome it if that happened, but as of right now in the story, he's scummier than Amaram.

 

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

I would actually disagree with most of you on the Elhokar front. Considering all he's been through lately, I'm not getting that dark vibe. I see it as he's accepted that he needs to gitgud by his admittance to Dalinar about how he could learn something from him. Not to mention his drunk lamentation to Kal in WoR. I see it as the start of taking a backseat role so he can learn to be a better leader. Whilst Dalinar may be in charge atm, I don't believe it'll stay that way. After all, the traits for Bondsmiths are Pious and Guiding so I would imagine Dalinar taking a more steward role/leader of Urithuru, much like the way we have the U.N or E.U. Elhokar would resume as King of Alethkar and so on.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Hoids Imaginary Friend said:

Anyone else feeling a brand healing coming from the aftermath of Kals super punch? You know, hes decided to not let the storms dictate his moods. Thats a big step for our lil kala'boy

I am feeling it. I think he is about to state he is no longer a slave and once he does, he'll be able to heal. I definitely think it is coming.

1 hour ago, yulerule said:

Oh, and I read "The Thrill" and my take on it is that if we had read those chapters first, if that was our introduction to Dalinar, we wouldn't like him, we would see him as a villain and as a bad guy, and we might not trust him now. Since we met him now, as a good guy, our perceptions are colored by that so its much easier to excuse his evil/villainous actions as we already like and trust him.

I definitely agree with you. Having read those chapters and not being able to use the information within the discussions has been a pure torture. I have said it before and I will say it again, Dalinar of old, Gavilar, they weren't the good guys: they were the bad guys, the antagonists.

36 minutes ago, ParadoxicalZen said:

I would actually disagree with most of you on the Elhokar front. Considering all he's been through lately, I'm not getting that dark vibe. I see it as he's accepted that he needs to gitgud by his admittance to Dalinar about how he could learn something from him. Not to mention his drunk lamentation to Kal in WoR. I see it as the start of taking a backseat role so he can learn to be a better leader. Whilst Dalinar may be in charge atm, I don't believe it'll stay that way. After all, the traits for Bondsmiths are Pious and Guiding so I would imagine Dalinar taking a more steward role/leader of Urithuru, much like the way we have the U.N or E.U. Elhokar would resume as King of Alethkar and so on.

I sense trouble... not everyone will follow Dalinar and there will be those to oppose them. I this point in time, I have no idea why Elhokar would even support Dalinar: he usurped his powers and while he might have noticed it is happening, I don't think he agrees. His drunken statement definitely has him viewing himself as the king, the help he asked is not to become a better leader, it is to become a hero, an object of worship. I really don't see him learning anything, I don't read him as predisposed towards learning anything nor do I think he has the right entourage, but we'll see.

[Calderis he/him]

2 hours ago, Hoids Imaginary Friend said:

Anyone else feeling a brand healing coming from the aftermath of Kals super punch? You know, hes decided to not let the storms dictate his moods. Thats a big step for our lil kala'boy

I partially agree. 

I think he's going to heal away the slave brand. 

The Shash brand stays. 

[+Extesian he/him]

20 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I partially agree. 

I think he's going to heal away the slave brand. 

The Shash brand stays. 

Yeah his description of having led 4 lives in the last 5 years makes that likely for the slave brand at least. He considers himself a different person. Maybe he'll even heal his depression, though he still seems to think of that as part of his personality. 

[Siaun Sanche she/her]

32 minutes ago, maxal said:

I sense trouble... not everyone will follow Dalinar and there will be those to oppose them. I this point in time, I have no idea why Elhokar would even support Dalinar: he usurped his powers and while he might have noticed it is happening, I don't think he agrees. His drunken statement definitely has him viewing himself as the king, the help he asked is not to become a better leader, it is to become a hero, an object of worship. I really don't see him learning anything, I don't read him as predisposed towards learning anything nor do I think he has the right entourage, but we'll see.

I agree with that. Beyond that, I don't really understand what the point of Elhokar having a redemption arc would be. Springboarding off of what you've said in the past, Elhokar's not an important character in and of himself. He exists as a supporting character to service other characters' stories (like Kaladin or Dalinar). And I don't see how Elhokar getting better is really in service of Dalinar's arc.

Dalinar's decided that he needs to unite Roshar, well and good. But for that journey to be compelling, there have to be consequences and hard choices for him to make along the way. So far his journey has involved him slowly getting what he wants: authority, respect from (some of) his peers, the woman that he loved. (Even the death of Sadeas, while not exactly what he wanted, removes an obstacle to his ambitions.) I think Oathbringer is going to be the book where Dalinar has to choose between some of his fundamental relationships and his new authority. If Elhokar quietly accepts a life in Dalinar's shadow, I think that lets Dalinar off a little easy and makes his journey a little unsatisfying.

[Gloom Spren]

13 hours ago, Calderis said:

Hate to be a downer here, but on the "Shallan is an illusion" thought... 

This could be the case but we know that Radiants have to be in close proximity to their spren to use their powers 

Unless she's still close enough to watch, and is only doing it for practice, I can't fathom how it would be possible. 

She can't just make an illusion in one place and then jaunt off around the rest of the city. 

As far as we've seen, here illusions aren't autonomous. 

I agree, and to add: there's a stormlight shortage.  This sort of jaunt would be expensive. 

[Nymeros]

8 hours ago, heroofpages said:

Now, I may be misinterpreting what you have said about Adolin (murderer & cowardice, etc.) as you disliking him, but if that is the case (You not liking Adolin)...

No man. Adolin bathed and perfumed himself in jail but thought it innapropriate to shave......thats gangster as hell. I actually like Adolin. Not too happy with the "tralalala nothing happened" attitude but he will be getting point of view chapters soon enough.

8 hours ago, maxal said:

Of course there is a need for comparison: you can't call Adolin a coward and give a free pass to everyone else. Kaladin admits within those very chapters he hasn't yet broached the subject of his involvement within the ploy to assassinate Elhokar with Dalinar. How many days did he have to do so? Oh yeah, five full days and he failed to summon the courage to bring it up. Is he a coward too? 

The book is filled with characters having a hard time dealing with a few given aspects of their life, but it does not make them cowards, it makes them human. Adolin has shown he was willing to take responsibility, to accept defeat, to put himself out there for the need of others: no coward would have entered the four on one duel, no coward would have defied a king's decree and stayed in prison on Kaladin's behalf, no coward would give a darkeyed Shards, a unprecedented event in Alethkar. Adolin is however not perfect: admitting his guilt towards murdering Sadeas implies him admitting he failed his father. He is not ready for this and if he is a coward for this, then I nominate every other characters as bigger cowards as they took years to deal with their own issues.

I don't think the secret will be kept forever, but I do agree the lack of concern from either side, three days after the discovery is suspicious. Still, I am surprised he can be so happy for his father considering what his mental state ought to be at this point in time within the story.

I'm not giving those guys a free pass so much as they've been more fleshed out so that they're easier to relate to. Kaladin was too much of a coward to contact his parents after failing his promise....but he's also tormented by his failures.

.....unlike Adolin. 

"Well whoops, let me go to work. Oh, they found the body? About time! Now let's get this wedding going boyyyssss."

Lol. Obviously, Im annoyed with the fallout (or lack of) to the murder of Sadeas'

5 hours ago, robardin said:

I don't fault Moash for being initially hostile to Kaladin's overtures - everybody in Bridge Four was. Even in the "kata demo" scene I mentioned, Sigzil was right there with Moash ridiculing the "lordling with airs". And his refusal to hero-worship Kaladin is one of the things that made Kaladin value him as a friend, that he was honest with him.

It's Moash's betrayal at the end of Words of Radiance of Kaladin's friendship, of his command, of his trust, and of his very life, that seal the book. That's not just "dissent" or "being independent". He literally owes Kaladin everything that he is, from being alive at all, to having fighting skills, to having Shards.

I suspect he may have a redemptive arc, and would welcome it if that happened, but as of right now in the story, he's scummier than Amaram.

 

I know, its great. Its WoR where i really became a fan. Take this quote:

"He felt as if he had been tossed into a  roiling river, one that had burst it's banks following a highstorm. He swam with the current, but could barely keep his he's above water."

I love how Moash was given way too much power and far too quickly. He really is clueless as to how to use it properly and was just struggling to find a way to use it to find justice and accomplish his (ultimately selfish) objectives.

Now that everything has blown up in his face, who knows how his character will evolve! Will he continue falling and failing or will he become more responsible and reforge himself into something great?

And he does have the potential for greatness...we're repeatedly reminded of his body for learning and multiple competencies. Cannot wait for his chapters.

 

Btw, Kaladin is the one who gave permission to Moash and allowed the assassination to reach the point that is did. He thought that he and Kaladin were of one mind and working towards the same goal....it's Kaladin who flip flopped last minute. Moash really had no desire to kill Kaladin and would not have even moved to kill it not for Graves presence.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Nymeros

[Pattern he/him]

6 hours ago, Harry the Heir said:

The thing is, Dalinar is also an Alethi. He's acting in the name of an Alethi king, he's handing out Alethi titles, he's seen internationally as an Alethi leader.

That was the point in my original statement. Technically Dalinar did not usurp power from Elhokar in Urithiru. It is percieved and felt differently up to this point. Dalinar has to embrace his role as Bondsmith yet, I guess that's part of what Oathbringer is about.

6 hours ago, maxal said:

I can definitely relate to the powerful feeling of helplessness towards crass injustice as the one which befell his grand-parents and, for action prone individuals, seeing they are powerless to do anything about it is just tantalizingly excruciating.

Oh yes! Still out out rep-points, so take a cookie and a (+1) later

6 hours ago, maxal said:

All they need to do is convinced Adolin to apply the writ.

Are we sure this writ still exists? I could imagine Dalinar destroying that as the visions turned out not to be madness (when Navani was able to identify his mumbles as the dawnchant). At least that is what I would do in his position, and I don't think Adolin would have been unwilling to get rid of the responsibiity.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Pattern

[Guest]

14 hours ago, maxal said:

Yeah. This. I am so tired of readers give nefarious intentions to Adolin's character just because he is not a Radiant while considering all Radiants as so much better. First he was a murderer bond to become Odium's Champion and now he is a coward for not having dealt with it after four days. Gee. Poor Adolin. Everyone holds him to impossible standards.

We all have a certain bias towards our favorite characters and tend to turn a blind eye to their faults and idolize their strengths. While I don't think, that Adolin is a coward for not bringing up his involvement with Sadeas' death immediately, hell, I don't think you can fault him for a certain interest of self-preservation, I would be very disappointed, if this whole thing just got ignored, should Adolin get found out or confess.

I mean, let's face it. If it would have been Kaladin, who killed Sadeas, well, for one thing, he would probably have lost Syl again, but more importantly he would have been held to a different standard, despite Sadeas still being the same evil man, because of him being a darkeyes. I can't stand double standards and if Adolin somehow gets away unscathed, because he is a lighteyed prince, I would probably get pretty angry. But we will see.

That is my main worry atm. But calling Adolin a coward is going too far. I agree.

13 hours ago, maxal said:

Seeing how Kadash has reacted to Dalinar's little speech of how the Almighty is not a God, but a lie, I definitely see him trying to convince others of Dalinar's heresy. He may not have to work very hard. I definitely think chapter 2 foreshadowed a war to dispose of Dalinar and pawns are currently being placed onto the check board. Currently, the best and only way they have to easily deal with the "Dalinar problem" is to remove him of his political powers by removing his title as "Highprince". All they need to do is convinced Adolin to apply the writ.

Kadash is very close to Adolin, he has a strong influence on him. He has tried to use him to pass messages to his father before. He may try again... except Adolin is WAY too loyal to Dalinar to even think of doing this, so how could Kadash pull this off? My current guess: by telling Adolin the truth about how his mother died and the truth about his father. Break the hero worshiping image Adolin has of his father, destroy it, shatter it and feel it instead with sorrow and pain. Have Adolin think his father truly is a monster.

Interesting... I do think, that Adolin has enough integrity to form his own opinions, but his emotional state obviously isn't the most... stable right now. I mean, like you said in a later post, I was just as surprised to see his reaction during the wedding. It's nice, that he is happy for his father and, I guess now, step-mother, but I think it was just another exaggerated reaction to distract him from his guilt.

I do think, that hearing the truth about Dalinar's past could break him to a point of turning against him and using the writ, especially considering that Dalinar is saying stuff like the Almighty is dead, which could be a way to prove his so-called insanity.

Edited September 7, 2017 by SLNC

[Pattern he/him]

I can not understand how someone can call Adolin a coward for not confessing on Sadeas' murder. He would be outright stupid if he confessed at this point. Adolin might not be the brightest candle in the chandelier but he is all but stupid.

The tough thing he has to do is to work through his own guilt, and we see him doing that slowly (micromanaging, being a bit snappy, etc.). A confession would make dealing with the guilt easier, would be an easy way out for him. So taking the hard way in this matter could also be counted as braveness.

Adolin does not seem to fear the consequences for his person, more the consequences for Dalinar and Alethkar in general.

And by the way, was it murder or manslaughter or even self defense? Sadeas' practically threatened to kill the Kholins at a later time - or try it. And as we all know, he already tried his best. In the case of this, our favourite useless king Elhokar should have taken the matter in his hands long ago and removed Sadeas as highprince (exeuted him, the Tower was basically high treason against Alethkar, weakening the armies a great deal).

Being proactive und dealing justice would be a good way for Elhokar to get what he wants, by the way. As he is, people will see him as whimsical and useless and to their best to get their own will.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Pattern

[Elena she/her]

10 hours ago, maxal said:

I this point in time, I have no idea why Elhokar would even support Dalinar: he usurped his powers and while he might have noticed it is happening, I don't think he agrees. His drunken statement definitely has him viewing himself as the king, the help he asked is not to become a better leader, it is to become a hero, an object of worship. I really don't see him learning anything, I don't read him as predisposed towards learning anything nor do I think he has the right entourage, but we'll see.

I saw his drunk moods more about feeling self-pitying after he heard his own guards call him a bad king/ implying nobody really cares about him than "wanting to be an object of worship". The last time we saw him before the assasination attempt he was asking Kaladin to teach him how to become a beloved leader, in a very sulky, very roundabout way. Kaladin, a darkeyed soldier, told him that yes, he is a bad king. Elhokar's answer? "Well, I did ask". When Kaladin rescues him from Graves and Moash and tells him he is doing it because Elhokar keeps trying even if he always screws up, Elhokar thaks him. That doesn't sound particularly arrogant to me; it sounds like he got knocked down a peg or two and may begin to learn from his mistakes. I'm not saying Elhokar is going to turn humble all of a sudden but acting like his only concern is being a hero and doesn't care about becoming an effective king is a disservice to his character. 

9 hours ago, Harry the Heir said:

I agree with that. Beyond that, I don't really understand what the point of Elhokar having a redemption arc would be. Springboarding off of what you've said in the past, Elhokar's not an important character in and of himself. He exists as a supporting character to service other characters' stories (like Kaladin or Dalinar). And I don't see how Elhokar getting better is really in service of Dalinar's arc.

Maybe it's just me, but I am always a bit shocked when people go 'this character is obviously minor, they haven't any room for growth'. Guys. This is a ten-books saga. We're a fifth into it. We don't know anything about what is going to happen and where the characters are going, especially in terms of characterization and development. Remember how Mat Cauthon was a dick in early WOT? I couldn't have cared less about him and didn't get why other characters did. Or for ASOIAF readers: Jaime Lannister got a helluva lot of character development with his POV, and it was great.

I really, really don't get the point of thinking a minor character will not evolve for no other reason that because he is a minor character. Minor characters are the backbone of sagas as much as the worldbulding is, they give flavour to the story and work best when they have a personality, not a set of characteristics set in stone. If Elhokar remains the exact same for the next 3 books, that'd be bad writing. Moash is also a minor character, and yet he got his own arc even as the focus was on Kaladin - it's not hard to do, and I am definitely expecting one for Elhokar as well. It doesn't have to necessarily make him a better person, but neither will be the monochromatic villainization some people seem to expect.

 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Elena
spellfix :)

[king of nowhere]

5 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Lol. Obviously, Im annoyed with the fallout (or lack of) to the murder of Sadeas'

 

We're still at chapter 6, give it time. It would be very anticlimatic if it was never discovered. And if adolin confessed now, it would risk undermining all of his father's work.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

I have a couple of questions, so thought might as well write them here. 

What is the highest rank a darkeyes can get in the alethi army?

Which is higher, sargeant or squadleader?

Was Dalinar already highprince when Gavilar died? As Gavilar been King and Highprince would be all sorts of awkard. 

[marsoupial they/them]

About Elhokar: I think he's either a Lightweaver or an innate Soulcaster. About his seemingly antagonistic behavior, I think he's still shaken up from Narak, the Everstorm, et al. Also, Navani's his mother and Dalinar's his uncle, and he's probably not taking too kindly to the sudden nature of the union, which is understandable. Not sympathetic, but understandable. He may be an obstacle for Dalinar in the future, but an antagonist? I dunno.

[Elena she/her]

3 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I have a couple of questions, so thought might as well write them here. 

What is the highest rank a darkeyes can get in the alethi army?

Which is higher, sargeant or squadleader?

Was Dalinar already highprince when Gavilar died? As Gavilar been King and Highprince would be all sorts of awkard. 

1) From the coppermind wikia "It is extremely rare for a darkeyed soldier to rise higher than the rank of squadleader" - using WoK chapter 47 as a reference. In that chapter Kaladin thinks that the only way for him to get any higher in rank would be going to the Plains, where he presumably would command a bigger/better trained force of darkeyes. Also from WoK we know that 'citizen officers' are squadleaders and sergeants, so darkeyes who have attained sufficient military rank to be considered first or second nahn. (I have no idea whether someone like Kaladin who started out second nahn would've bumped up a nahn after becoming squadleder. Most of what we know about the Alethi rank system comes from a WoB that focused on dahn rathern than nahn.) So from what we know in the book, sergeant/squadleaders are as high up as a darkeye can get, and Kaladin couldn't have gone any higher. 

2) Given the above 'both sergeants and squadleader are citizens' (from WoK chapter 46) we're not exactly told if/which one is higher than the other. For all we know they could even be two ranks corresponding to different chains of commands but the new Oathbringer chapter changes things somewhat. From what Kaladin tells Syl in this chapter, about emplyoing an 'old sergeant trick' we could assume he has been a sergeant. This means he was promoted from sergeant to squadleader, and squadleader was as high up as he could go; this would make squadleader the higher rank. We know his being later promoted to captain is an exceptional event, and Jenet the stablemaster in WoR makes it clear she has never heard of a darkeyed captain before. Maybe there are other 'unofficial' ways for a darkeye to climb up in the ranks, maybe having some important, rare skills - like the darkeyed scout of Dalinar's that Shallan mention being well respected. But as a rule darkeyes can't be officers.

EDIT: as @Fulminato pointed out, Dallet was Kal's sergeant. So squadleader is definitely higher

3) Again from WoK, we get this line "Elhokar had inherited the throne, and Dalinar, by right, had taken the Kholin Princedom as his own". This suggests Gavilar was King as well as Highprince, which makes sense considering that Gavilar was Highprince before being King. We also learn that "That left Elhokar without land that was specifically his own. He tended to act like a highprince of the Kholin Princedom", which could support the idea that Gavilar was both Highprince and King since if he hadn't been then he too would have done the same - nominally being King only, but administering the Kholin princedom as well - and Adolin would have been used to this dynamic and wouldn't have remarked on it like he does in this chapter. Also I can't imagine Gavilar settling himself for a cerimonial role only; I don't think he would've given up the princedom. What might have happened was that in the later years of his kingdom he'd become more and more interest in other things (exploring the Plains and so on) that he left the running of the Kholin lands to Dalinar and made him heir to the princedom. So Adolin would've grown up seeing his father as de facto Highprince and this is why he's annoyed now that Elhokar is taking back these powers, if not in name then in practice.

However! We should remember that all this information is from the very first scenes we get on the Kholins, so it could be that Adolin's thoughts were only a way for Brandon to get some exposition in and shouldn't be taken as absolute truth. I don't think that what we learn here re: Kholin dynamics is ever mentioned again - if anything, we get told many times that Dalinar is the one usurpating Elhokar's authority more often than not. So I really would wait until we get all of Dalinar's flashbacks before thinking we know the answer to this question

 (Unless of course this is explained somewhere else and I missed it )

Edited September 7, 2017 by Elena

[Nymeros]

2 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I have a couple of questions, so thought might as well write them here. 

What is the highest rank a darkeyes can get in the alethi army?

Which is higher, sargeant or squadleader?

Was Dalinar already highprince when Gavilar died? As Gavilar been King and Highprince would be all sorts of awkard. 

"Dalinar made me a captain,” Kaladin said. “The highest rank he said he dared commission a darkeyes. Well, I need to come up with a full command structure for a thousand men, and we’re going to need something between sergeant and captain. That means appointing you five as lieutenants.

1- Captain

2- Sargeant

3- No

Edited September 7, 2017 by Nymeros

[Fulminato he/him]

46 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

"Dalinar made me a captain,” Kaladin said. “The highest rank he said he dared commission a darkeyes. Well, I need to come up with a full command structure for a thousand men, and we’re going to need something between sergeant and captain. That means appointing you five as lieutenants.

1- Captain

2- Sargeant

3- No

1 - kaldin is the first captain darkeye ever “I suppose. I’ve got your uniform over there, Captain. A darkeyed captain! Who would have thought it possible? You’ll be the only one in the army. The only one ever, so far as I know!” [WoR Chapter 2]

2 false "“I…” Kaladin trailed off. He could imagine Dallet doing something like this. He’d always said that as sergeant, part of his job was to keep Kaladin alive. “All right.”" [WotK Chapter 62]

Edited September 7, 2017 by Fulminato

[Nymeros]

1 Exactly. Captain is the highest we've seen.

2 Not sure what you expect me to say here.....In WoR, Kaladin named lieutenants though it might cause controversy.

He would have just named them squadleaders if he needed something between serjeant and captain, right?

[Fulminato he/him]

2 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

1 Exactly. Captain is the highest we've seen.

2 Not sure what you expect me to say here.....In WoR, Kaladin named lieutenants though it might cause controversy.

He would have just named them squadleaders if he needed something between serjeant and captain, right?

squadleader is a functional role, 25/30 man under his command on the battlefield. kaldain is a captain, he command near one thousand men, if he will be a lighteye the correct rank should be 'battalionlord' with a captain (probably more the one) under his command to mange the troop. liutenant is normaly used for 'sergent' on only-lighteye company.

kaladin is an ecception, so his command structure must be outside the normal rank system of the army

[Nymeros]

1. Yes Kaladin was the first and an exception......which means that Captain is now the highest rank to be held by a darkeyes in the Alethi army. Surely we agree?

2. I'm assuming by "functional" you mean that a person in charge of a specifically sized group will hold the position/title of squadleader regardless of official rank? So (assuming Sanderson didnt make a simple error) Kaladin was actually some sort of master sergeant back in the day? Sure? 

[Azul he/him]

On 9/5/2017 at 2:45 PM, WhiteLeeopard said:

This is actually quite impressive. 90 miles (144 km), would be roughly 30 miles (48 km) per day. Without Stormlight. You can walk that in the first day maybe, but for 3 days in a row... Makes me wonder if KR are stronger than normal men due to the Nahel bond, even without stormlight. He doesn't look tired enough to not have slept in 3 days, just depressed (nothing new there). He also had to stay still during the Everstorm. Could just be a mundane explanation such as he is in good shape, and stubborn, but could also be something more? 

I use to run D&D and Pathfinder PnP games and my players would always argue with me on how far they could travel in a day so I ended up doing a bit of research on it.  If i remember correctly this seems pretty in line with what I would expect Kaladin to be able to accomplish.  Between his training as a solider (who spend a lot of time marching) and bridge runs I would imagine he has excellent endurance.  He is traveling cross country and while that may be slightly easier on Roshar due to the enviornment it still not as fast as someone walking/running on roads.   Someone mentioned gravity in a earlier post and I don't really think that would be much of a issue since its his native gravity and his muscle mass and bone density would be designed for it.

[Lazarus52980]

Has anyone ever posited the prediction that Amaram will marry Ialai to become the new high prince?  I'm not sure why, but reading the chapters and the comments leads me to this conclusion.  He is regarded very highly and was a longtime supporter of Sadeas.  He is also a "Ruthless bastard" (per Sadeas IIRC) and that is known by only a few, but I'm sure that Ialai is one of them.  All of this plus the fact that he is a Full Shardbearer should give him the political clout to do so, and the confrontation with Dalinar should give him the motivation to take up the new title.

 

Thoughts?  Any theories on why this would not work?