Long Game 35: L35 Miserables

[DeTess she/her]

@OrlokTsubodai, I might not have properly explained my point regarding complaints about someone's playstyle being a point of the moderators. What I meant to say is that complaints about someone's playstyle are something that I believe should be mostly dealt with out-of-game, through conversations with the player himself and the moderators if necessary.

The rest of the discussion regarding what should and shouldn't be done regarding information leverage should be held out-of-game, I think. I'm not saying it shouldn't be held, because there seem to be some different views on it, both of which have valid points in my opinion, but I don't think a currently ongoing game is the best place for this discussion. If it is moved to another thread(not doing that myself, as I'm not sure where it should go), please tag me in it, as I do believe I've got one or two things to say about it.

edit: Okay, let's talk about @Straw.

There's a couple of things that are brought against him as reason for suspicion. The first thing that comes up is Yitzi's odd stealth-defense of him. I'll just note that this has occurred, but I won't expect Straw to explain this.

Anyway, here's the first thing that straw has done himself that's been brought against him: he's made a lot of PM's, especially group PM's, and it has been suggested that this could be an elim ploy to look in on conversations by others. Little wilson has also mentioned that Straw himself doesn't respond too much in her PM with him. This last fact seems to clash with Straw's later explanation that he made them because he was bored. After all, if you make PM's because you are bored, it would be expected that you are quick to respond to any questions you are asked in these PM's.

The second thing that made me a bit suspicious of him is this post from D1:

Quote

*sigh* Flash, because you want neutrals to help the village, I would recommend voting on Randuir, who is being voted on because he was being aggressive toward neutrals. Also, if more than slightly annoyed that you hopped on the first bandwagon you saw instead of asking someone for a brief rundown of what's happened.

He expresses annoyance that Flash jumped on the first bandwagon that he saw, rather than getting informed first, but he then seems to be trying to use this behavior to make him jump to another bandwagon. If Straw cared that much about people being fully informed before voting, maybe he should be giving someone a full run-down of what has occurred, rather than just saying that he should vote for Y because X.

His quick reveal of Joe's PM made me initially lean more village on him, but I can now see how an elim would do so if he believed it would get the village to lynch Joe, thus getting that Neutral-alienation thing going.

Another thing that I noted is that at the beginning of D2, he said he'd share his suspicions, but he hasn't gotten around to doing that yet. This is fairly NAI at the moment, but I'd like to hear about these suspicions he mentioned.

Overall, I'm not especially suspicious of Straw now that I've properly looked over all his posts again, given that I think an elim wouldn't have joined the bandwagon on himself (especially since Stink is still an alternative by weight of votes). Overall read is Neutral/slightly elim. I can still see how Straw is a decent information lynch at this point, and will add my vote if it's needed to get him to surpass stink (STINK, btw).

Edited July 3, 2017 by randuir
slight clarification

[Amanuensis he/him]

I'm in the process of sobering up, so once I finish that I'll look over this thread and see who I actually want to push. Not very comfortable with the transition from STINKwagon into Strawagon.

[Arraenae]

I still think we should lynch Stink.

Let's say you don't particularly care about how his actions have negatively affected players. Stink is still a Thief that has probably sided with the elims. He's going to keep stealing more vials until he completes his win con or dies. Stink has already shown that he shows no compunction about stealing from major roles. Stink is a walking roleblock who has likely sided with the elims.

And then there's the fact that his actions have hurt players. Blackmail and coersion are all good until players get upset.

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, Arraenae said:

 

I still think we should lynch Stink.

Let's say you don't particularly care about how his actions have negatively affected players. Stink is still a Thief that has probably sided with the elims. He's going to keep stealing more vials until he completes his win con or dies. Stink has already shown that he shows no compunction about stealing from major roles. Stink is a walking roleblock who has likely sided with the elims.

And then there's the fact that his actions have hurt players. Blackmail and coersion are all good until players get upset.

IMO him not being able to steal the same metal twice changes things a lot.

Given I was the player who was most bothered by his game play (well, I know I'm not the only one, but I personally was very upset with him during the first cycle), I'm perfectly willing to forgive him if it stops.

[Stick. she/her]

7 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Not very comfortable with the transition from STINKwagon into Strawagon.

Why tho

[DeTess she/her]

5 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

Why tho

I'm not Aman, but I'd guess it might have to do with how quickly it got turned around, and how little arguments where given initially. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

11 hours ago, little wilson said:

So I suppose if you'd like to see mafia go bye-bye on the nicest forum on the internet, be my guest. Continue supporting these types of playstyles.

I rather hope you don't believe me to be condoning toxic behavior. Of course the shard is a special community, and of course I mean to keep it that way.

What I am suggesting is that there's a line to be drawn. We'll move forward better if we can properly distinguish just what it is we don't like, and what is considered acceptable. Defining that is helpful, in the interest of discouraging bad behavior.

 

That said. I would absolutely support the notion of a policy lynch... Except I can't see the relevant communications, nor would it be within the rules for anyone to quote them to me. As such, I am in no place to judge if STINK did anything bad or not. From what I know right now, I could easily picture a situation where STINK's actions were okay, and easily picture a situation where they weren't okay.

[DeTess she/her]

Vote tally:

STINK(6): Joe, crimsn, elenion, ecth, arraenae, little Wilson

Straw(7): stick, Drake, Striker, Straw, flash, Dalinar, BR

I'm going to try to create some lynch discussion in a bit so that this day-cycle isn't completely lost, but I won't make any promises.

Edited July 3, 2017 by randuir

[Stick. she/her]

@randuir didn't BR change her vote?

[DeTess she/her]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

@randuir didn't BR change her vote?

Yeah, you're right. I'd missed that. I'll correct it.

[Straw he/him]

Eh, I'll change my vote back from Straw to STINK.

[DeTess she/her]

Okay, let's try to salvage something information-wise from this cycle.

@Straw, you've mentioned at the start of D2 that you had some suspicions, but I don't think you've ever elaborated on those. Would you care to share some of those with us?

@Dalinar Kholin, could you maybe give your impressions of stick, crimsn and Asterion?

@Amanuensis, you mentioned that you don't like the straw-wagon. Is there anyone else you wouldn't mind a massed band-wagon on?

@asterion137. You said this D2:

Quote

I guess it is pretty suspicious that I sided with claimed neutrals right after the Elims helped them. Oh well I don't really have much hope about not getting lynched this cycle but if Rand really isn't an elim I'd be lynched next cycle for sure anyway. And since I still dont feel good about D1 lynch, Rand Yitzi

What made you think there was no more hope for you? Was it just that you decide your voting-activity seemed suspicious? I'm asking because I don't often see people of either alignment just decide that they are going to be lynched, and there's nothing to be done about it.

@OrlokTsubodai, is there any chance you'd be willing to reveal when the deal you'd mentioned in D2 was made?

@StrikerEZ, would you be willing to share your thoughts on a couple more people?

@Drake Marshall, I haven't seen much in the way of game discussion from you yet. Would you be willing to share some reads too?

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by randuir
grammar

[Stick. she/her]

No questions for Stick :[

6 minutes ago, randuir said:

@OrlokTsubodai, is there any chance you'd be willing to reveal when the deal you'd mentioned in D2 was made?

It probably crossed other people's minds too, but is it possible that the CDF D1 was part of their deal? It could...

[Straw he/him]

@randuir I was suspicious of STINK.

[DeTess she/her]

22 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

It probably crossed other people's minds too, but is it possible that the CDF D1 was part of their deal? It could...

That's why I'd like to know. If it was, I'd be less conflicted about having village reads on both you and crimsn right now.

And just because I didn't ask you a question doesn't mean you don't have to go and give the thread some insight in your opinions. Feel free to give some reads on people anyway.

@Straw, was it just STINK, or are there others you are suspicious of as well?

Edited July 3, 2017 by randuir

[Amanuensis he/him]

41 minutes ago, randuir said:

@Amanuensis, you mentioned that you don't like the straw-wagon. Is there anyone else you wouldn't mind a massed band-wagon on?

@asterion137. You said this D2:

Quote

I guess it is pretty suspicious that I sided with claimed neutrals right after the Elims helped them. Oh well I don't really have much hope about not getting lynched this cycle but if Rand really isn't an elim I'd be lynched next cycle for sure anyway. And since I still dont feel good about D1 lynch, Rand Yitzi

What made you think there was no more hope for you? Was it just that you decide your voting-activity seemed suspicious? I'm asking because I don't often see people of either alignment just decide that they are going to be lynched, and there's nothing to be done about it.

Re: Me

I'd kinda rather not have a bandwagon at all. I much prefer lynches that are divided between multiple players where everyone who can vote has, even if its on someone unrelated. We learn a ton more info from that than everyone piling on one person. 

Re: Aster

I think you're asking the wrong question, Rand. Look very carefuly at what Aster said there.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Amanuensis

[DeTess she/her]

4 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

Re: Me

I'd kinda rather not have a bandwagon at all. I much prefer lynches that are divided between multiple players where everyone who can vote has, even if its on someone unrelated. We learn a ton more info from that than everyone piling on one person. 

Sorry, I should have been more clear with that question. I meant it more like: do you have any opinions on who you think we should lynch right now. Right now you haven't given too much (though since you've been super active the previous cycles, maybe I shouldn't be poking you to be more active).

Quote

Re: Aster

I think you're asking the wrong question there, Rand. Look very carefuly at what Aster said there.

I hate it when you say this, it makes me feel like I'm missing something hugely obvious . Well, give me a minute to figure it out.

Edited July 3, 2017 by randuir

[asterion137 he/him]

45 minutes ago, randuir said:

What made you think there was no more hope for you? Was it just that you decide your voting-activity seemed suspicious? I'm asking because I don't often see people of either alignment just decide that they are going to be lynched, and there's nothing to be done about it.

A lot of people seemed to be voting on me and I could really see where they were coming from so I didn't really expect a change in the lynch

[Amanuensis he/him]

10 minutes ago, randuir said:

Sorry, I should have been more clear with that question. I meant it more like: do you have any opinions on who you think we should lynch right now. Right now you haven't given too much (though since you've been super active the previous cycles, maybe I shouldn't be poking you to be more active).

I hate it when you say this, it makes me feel like I'm missing something hugely obvious . Well, give me a minute to figure it out.

Yeahhh, I was kind of banking on being dead already, so I made plans to go out last night, and I'm still recovering from that. I'll be decently active from now until turnover, though.

You kind of are  but I want to see if anyone else can look over the quote and see the what I saw.

---

8 minutes ago, asterion137 said:

A lot of people seemed to be voting on me and I could really see where they were coming from so I didn't really expect a change in the lynch

@asterion137, if you're town I really need you to help me here. I'd rather not vote for you if I don't have to.

Edited July 3, 2017 by Amanuensis
Edited in after horizontal line

[Stick. she/her]

13 minutes ago, randuir said:

I hate it when you say this, it makes me feel like I'm missing something hugely obvious . Well, give me a minute to figure it out.

Quote

I guess it is pretty suspicious that I sided with claimed neutrals right after the Elims helped them. Oh well I don't really have much hope about not getting lynched this cycle but if Rand really isn't an elim I'd be lynched next cycle for sure anyway. And since I still dont feel good about D1 lynch, Rand Yitzi

Hm. It's something in or before that last sentence, I'm sure.

29 minutes ago, randuir said:

And just because I didn't ask you a question doesn't mean you don't have to go and give the thread some insight in your opinions. Feel free to give some reads on people anyway.

I'm going to take a look at Striker's posts as soon as I stop being lazy  

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, _Stick_ said:

Hm. It's something in or before that last sentence, I'm sure.

I mean, everything in that quote is that last sentence or what comes before

[asterion137 he/him]

18 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

@asterion137, if you're town I really need you to help me here. I'd rather not vote for you if I don't have to.

I'd rather you not vote me either. It would probably help if you could stop the reading comprehension clinic and point out what you found in my previous post so I can look at it before I go on a 2 hour drive. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by asterion137
Original post sounded bad

[Stick. she/her]

3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

I mean, everything in that quote is that last sentence or what comes before

exactly

Edited July 3, 2017 by _Stick_

[Amanuensis he/him]

Just now, asterion137 said:

I'd rather you not vote me either. Maybe it would help if you would point out what you found in my previous post so I can look at it before I go on a 2 hour drive

When do you expect to go? I really am curious if anyone else can see it.

[asterion137 he/him]

1 minute ago, Amanuensis said:

When do you expect to go? I really am curious if anyone else can see it.

Half an hour or so