Is it just me or do you really don't like Navani

[Megan]

Ok, I've from the beginning have not liked Navani. Some of other people i know did and didn't, my sister doesn't like her has much has me, mom likes her ok, my brother didn't really like her but didn't think about it much, and my friend didn't like her ether almost has much has me.

But, yeah any way.

 Like the first time she spoke she really annoyed me. At first I thought she was one of those characters that you where not supposed to like.

But, any way before I go on a rant about it this is why I don't like her.

From the beginning she has come off has a little "wow is me" and "my life is so hard" and I get that she didn't really love her husband and that she had to watch the person that she really love get married and have kids, and don't get my wroung! That would be REALLY hard to see and live with because she saw him most likely a lot. But it just annoyed me because she said that she thought he was dropping hints and everything, sooooooo why can't you just ask him about it or something or not go and marry his brother, and she said that she didn't because she was intimated by him! I'm sorry, but if you can't talk to him about a relationship, then it's going to be really hard too talk in marriage.

And too me she just seems... not a good person. Not like just needs to die she's the worst thing that has walk there planet, just that she is selfish, doesn't respect other people and is rude.

And when Dalinar first fell in love with her, he was a really bad person his words, and she really REALLY liked him at that point too, I don't know if I can say that she loved him at that point.

So yeah that is just a couple of reasons why I REALLY don't like her (i don't know if I can say that I hate her because hate is a very strong word), but there are a lot of others.

I would do a poll, but I don't know how

Edited June 20, 2016 by Megan

[Darkness Ascendant]

She does sort of force herself into things. But I never gave Navani much thought

[king of nowhere]

I always liked her because she's an engineer/scientist tipe. That's enough to ensure that I like her as long as she doesn't do anything terrible. Yeah, I'm biased towards my category. But then, most scientists I met are good people who want to do something useful for society, so the bias comes from somewhere.

But even ignoring that factor, I don't see her "wow is me" and "my life is so hard" vibes as being worse than those of most people. Virtually anyone I ever met will talk about them and complain that their life is hard. I do it myself simply because hardship is a more interesting argument of conversation that lack of hardship. Maybe next time I read the stormlight archive I will pay more attention to navani's conversations.

[sheep]

Navani comes across as unlikeable because in the first chapter where she appears, Dalinar doesn't really describe her in flattering ways, even while he knows he's physically attracted to her.  He's just too jaded with her because of their troubled youth, and the mental monologue in his PoV chapters make her seem like a bad person.  And that first impression tends to stick around until the end where she paints the giant glyph on the ground and proves she's not such a witch.

 

Quote

Much like her daughter, Navani was a political creature. Intrigue made her blossom like a rockbud in calm wet air. However, unlike Jasnah, Navani was hard to trust.

Chapter 22, "Eyes, Hands, or Spheres", Way of Kings

Quote

It seemed a particular irony to him that his wife’s face had been erased from his mind, and yet he could remember in complete and intricate detail the months this woman had spent toying with him and Gavilar. She’d played them off one another, fanning their desire before finally choosing the elder son.

They’d all known the entire time that she would choose Gavilar. It had hurt anyway.

Chapter 22, "Eyes, Hands, or Spheres", Way of Kings

 

Not very nice, right?

 

And Navani's persistence, from Dalinar's PoV, comes across as very annoying, especially as he makes it clear to her that what she wants is incestuous and wrong according to Vorin traditions.  In his mind he wants to do bad things, but what he ends up saying is "No". 

 

Quote

“I thank you for your scribing and for your willingness to keep this quiet,” he said, opening his eyes. “But I really must ask you to leave now, Navani.”

Chapter 52, "A Highway to the Sun", Way of Kings

Quote

“I need to think on all of this,” he said. “It has been a long day. Please, if I could be left to my own thoughts now.”

Renarin rose and bowed his head in respect before heading to the door. Navani rose more slowly, sleek dress rustling as she set her cup on the table, then walked over to fetch her pain-drinking fabrial. Renarin left, and Dalinar walked to the doorway, waiting as Navani approached. He didn’t intend to let her trap him alone again.

Chapter 61, "Right for Wrong," Way of Kings

 

But she keeps coming after him.  If you overlay your modern sensibilities to this situation, and gender-swapped the characters so that it's an extremely persistent male going after a female who refuses his advances, yes, it seems pretty dodgy.  It shouldn't matter what gender you are - saying "no" and "please go" should be an indication that you aren't interested, but sometimes it takes reversing the situation to see how socially inappropriate it is.  I am guessing some readers pick up on this subconsciously (or not) and that is why reading the scenes with Navani make people feel uncomfortable, and therefore have trouble thinking she's nice or likeable.

This impression comes from the fact that Navani interactions mostly feature in Dalinar's PoV, and their "history" makes it hard for him to say nice things about her, at least from the beginning.  She doesn't seem to have trouble interacting with Adolin, Renarin, Elhokar, and other minor characters in the story in other PoV chapters.  But first impressions count for a lot and sometimes you just can't change them.

 

 

Oh, and one last gemstone of an excerpt:

 

Quote

“Dalinar,” she said, walking up to him. “That would kind of defeat the point of sending Adolin away. I was after some privacy.”

He felt himself growing stiff.

Chapter 52, "A Highway to the Sun", Way of Kings

 

 

Naughty Brandon.

 

[Argel]

She's not really a character I paid much attention to, but e.g. she doesn't try to butt in on Shallan's work. Dalinar thinks some bad things about her, but we don't really see anything that untoward. I also really liked the scene where Dalinar tells Elokhar he's courting her. Too funny!!

[Erklitt]

Thanks, @Megan, for this topic. I've wondered about my own negative reaction to Navani. Have an upvote.

@sheep, brilliant analysis.

I'd like to add one more thought: for whatever reason, I just find it hard to believe in the sincerity of her feelings. The vibe I get from her is not so much arrogance or self pity but rather simple coldness. I could forgive her intrusiveness if I could believe she really cares. But this woman is made from ice. And any act of hers seeming to prove the contrary feels somehow out of character. Maybe with the exception of the burning glyph, but even there, I don't get any real warmth from her, just a cold yet commendable yearning of justice. (And note that she chooses this glyph, rather than something like 'savety', 'preservation', 'reunion' or whatever.) I just don't believe her when she seems to care about Dalinar or be motherly towards Shallan. And the fact that she's mostly seen through Dalinar's eyes makes it worse. If the man who professes to love her cannot make us feel any warmth from or for her, than who can?

44 minutes ago, Argel said:

I also really liked the scene where Dalinar tells Elokhar he's courting her. Too funny!!

The best Navani scene of all!! And that with her off stage...

[Toaster Retribution]

I dont actively dislike her, but I am not very fond of her either. Her POVs are not very fun either.

[Szmit]

Sincerly, I don't see her as a ful character yet, merly a plot device. I don't care for her, and I doubt I will, unless Brandon will involve her a lot more actively into the story. However Steris in the beginning of tAoL was in a very similar state. She starts as a character we dont like or dont care about, so if she'll get a role in which she'll become sympathetic, we would care for her even more because of the progress. 

[Dahak]

13 hours ago, sheep said:

They’d all known the entire time that she would choose Gavilar.

Chapter 22, "Eyes, Hands, or Spheres", Way of Kings

And we find out Dalinar was wrong about that, and that it was him convincing her that he hated her that lead to her chosing Gavilar.

[SamsonSeaBorn]

Welp I like Navani for the most part she's like most other characters in the books, misfit broken people, what I like most about her is that she decided to pick herself up and not be miserable as a relic in the capital, only allowed idle gossip and not let into the maneuverings of the court. Now to be fair she has her flaws but she is definitely not ice cold. She feels very deeply for her children (despite calling her son useless as a king and her possible resentment that Jasina didn't need her love) and for those like Dalanar and his sons. When she first gets to the war camps and seduces Dalanar I don't feel this is political maneuvering but a true desperate outreach to a man who she feels is the only person who knows the true individual  she is. After Sadeas's betrayal Navani pieces together that his troops had not been routed indeed they looked like they had hardly seen battle so she knows what had gone on which is why she chooses justice as her glyph to burn. She was seeking justice to the betrayal she knew had happened. When Shallan arrives and tells Dalanar and Navani of Jasinas death Navani is devastated and strikes out unkindly at Shallan saying it was her fault for burning the boat but as Dalanar points out Jasina was likely stabbed and dead so setting the ship on fire was prudent. Navani excuses herself and apologizes then leaves to presumably cry her eyes out in private. Later we see her doing one of two things spending her time with Dalanar and working on and funding her work in Fabriels. Which shows me by the end of the second book like almost all the others that the cracks and broken pieces are starting to mend for her, or at the very least she pulled herself out of a miserable situation and tries her best to cut away at her thorns. 

[Megan]

@Erklitt I showed that to my sister and she said that you couldn't word her thoughts any better.                                                                                                                                                                                                      And I think that Dalinar could do way better, I just really don't like them has a couple, and I'm not just saying that because I don't like her, I have not liked other characters before and like there love interest but I have still liked them has a couple. It's kind of like your friend is dating someone and you don't like that person, but you like that there dating because there good for each other. I don't have those feelings about Navani and Dalinar.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  And I would also like to say that it is very rare for me not to like a character. It actually took me s long time to think of someone else that I didn't from a book or movie. Because in a book their not real so they can do more stuff. Like Wayne for me, if I knew him in real life I would not like him, but in the book I thought he was really funny. And I really wanted to like Navani, because I REALLY like Dalinar and I want for him to have a happy ever after. So like I said, I REALLY did want to like her, and I tried to see it in her way, but i just think that she's not a very good person.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Megan

[Erklitt]

Still wondering about this. Looks like a character's development didn't work as it was supposed to, at least for some readers.

I realize that Navani cannot be really so cold as she feels to me, her actions prove otherwise far too often. I also realize SamsonSeaBorn is right:

11 hours ago, SamsonSeaBorn said:

After Sadeas's betrayal Navani pieces together that his troops had not been routed indeed they looked like they had hardly seen battle so she knows what had gone on which is why she chooses justice as her glyph to burn. She was seeking justice to the betrayal she knew had happened. 

When Navani was drawing that glyph, she was rationally convinced (even though she refused to accept it) that Dalinar was already dead, so all the other prayers I suggested wouldn't have made sense. The funny thing is: I think that I rationally understand what she is supposed to be like, and I would expect myself to sympathize with such a character. But when I see her on stage I just can't relate to her. She's not cold, she leaves me cold.

I guess that is also the reason for agreeing with Megan on this:

4 hours ago, Megan said:

And I think that Dalinar could do way better, I just really don't like them has a couple, and I'm not just saying that because I don't like her, I have not liked other characters before and like there love interest but I have still liked them has a couple. It's kind of like your friend is dating someone and you don't like that person, but you like that there dating because there good for each other. I don't have those feelings about Navani and Dalinar.     

Just can't put my finger on the reason for all of this. 'First impressions' goes some way, but we see too much of her later for this to be the only cause. Why is it so hard to feel her to be what one knows her to be?

Edited June 21, 2016 by Erklitt

[Argel]

Could it be that she is also a scholar, with some of the familair tropes that come along with it? Based on Dalinar's comments, it also seems like she's mellowed a bit. He really does expect Navani to take advantage of the secret information, so it sure sounds like she used to be more manipulative. Of course, pre-Gavillar and once married, plitals manuevering would be expected (and arguably a requirement). I think it hurt her that she was in-effect in charge of the scholars. That's why Brandon had to add in that scene about not taking the research away from Shallan. I think if she was just a highly respected sacholar but not in charge, that she may have been more likeable.

Though with that said, it really feels like Brandon was trying to write her as not likeable. So, there may be some plots twists ahead. Or maybe it will make the flashback scense more interesting. Or maybe he's setting our expectations for the younger, not-so-nice version of Navani so that some of the flash back scenes don't bother us as much.

Also, she is Jasnah's mother, so maybe we're supposed to see where some of her personality comes from. Edit: Not to mention that how likeable could Navani be before theories about Jasnah being adopted popped up? There's a certain expectation in Navani's personality because of Jasnah. Also, not that I think about it, but Brandon may want to make sure Jasnah is the scholar we like the most. I mean, it wouldn't do if fans started liking Navani over Jasnah (kind of like how Adolin seems to have a larger fanbase than intended).

Edited June 21, 2016 by Argel

[WayneSpren]

I liked Navani a lot in WoR, with her new fabrials and her dilemma over Jasnah's (Supposed) death. Didn't really care for her in WoK, though.

I do, however, think she will be very important later on, as early in the series, instead of Eshonai, one of the books was going to have Navani's flashbacks and Navani as the central character.

I hope we get better from her later on than we did in WoK, where I agree with @Szmit she was more a plot device than a real character.

Edited June 21, 2016 by WayneSpren

[CaptainRyan]

I am honestly surprised at the different take so many readers have on Navani as compared to my reaction. It is really interesting to me. 

I have read the Way of Kings and Words of Radiance many times and have always come away from the readings with a positive impression of Navani. Dalinar describes her unflatteringly on a few occasions but he also notes that she is trustworthy. She does not betray the trust Dalinar, and others, place in her and provides valuable help in deciphering Dalinar's visions and also in providing fabrial research. She is a "political creature" but in a male-dominated society she needs to use the weapons available to her in order to protect her son and herself. As a character her depth is a touch lacking but, overall, I thought she added to the story and I like her.

Isn't it cool how so many of us can read the same book but have different reactions? Good stuff.

[SweetLift]

I could see how she seems cold in the beginning of WoK.  After the Tower and later in WoR we see more emotion from her. She loves Adolin and Renarin and then Shallan. I think she is in a very difficult position in the beginning of WoK and she tried the best way that she knew how to, position herself in the place where she felt that she was needed and she could be of use.  I could see how she would scratch and claw her way up from feeling like she was no longer of value to family or society.

[maxal]

6 hours ago, Argel said:

I mean, it wouldn't do if fans started liking Navani over Jasnah (kind of like how Adolin seems to have a larger fanbase than intended).

Authors cannot control which character their readers are going to latch on.This being said, I am unsure how surprised Brandon truly is about the size of the ever growing Adolin's fanbase... He must have known when he wrote WoR the readers would enjoy/talk about the character, though I do not think he foresaw he would catch on as he did. Adolin is a very bizarre case in the wonderful word of books (a supporting character treated as more, but confirmed to never be more while being more popular than most main)... still it is an interesting exercise to compare how readers were supposed to react to the given characters...

In the case of the character at hand, Navani, it seems obvious to me she was never meant to be a major player. Her primary role into the story has been to be Dalinar's former love interest, thus making her the only living link to his dubious past. She is by who we learns snatches and glimpses of Dalinar's former wife and it is through her we got out first ideas as to how younger Dalinar was perceived among his peers. Her secondary role was to provide insight onto fabrial technology. It is customary of Brandon to introduce scholars or engineer-like characters with the intended purpose of transferring information onto his world to his readers. Navani strikes to me as such a character, a role Jasnah has also fulfilled within WoK.

I had heard of Brandon's very old plans regarding a Navani flashback book, but I doubt he ever planned for her to be a major player. I figured he simply wanted to tell the Dalinar/Navani/Gavilar love triangle story and he thought, for a while, he would need Navani's POV to do so. He has since then changed his mind.

As for the character itself, I would say all of the above commentaries are valid. Depending on who you ask, Navani (and Jasnah) can be interpreted as cold and emotionless. I suspect this is merely due to their personality: they aren't expressive people and whatever emotions inhabit them do not often surface. For instance, one could say Navani's reaction upon hearing Jasnah's death was rather meek: no screams, no tears, just angry blank assessment or so is how I recall the scene. However the mere fact we saw a visible emotional response from her indicate how disturbed he was. She isn't emotionless nor cold, but very reserved and guarded. While I certainly think her personality plays a strong role into this behavior, society plays another one: Alethi are reserved and hardly ever display emotions. They are contained, for the most part. Navani has thus learned how to wear a mask, a politician mask, forever scheming unless she plays with her fabrial, this is when we see the real Navani.

I say, Alethi are an entire society of repressed people 

Her arrival onto the Shattered Plains was her last game... People often blame her for dropping in to claim Dalinar, but perhaps they forgot she was a woman out of options. She was basically chased from Kholinar, both her children do not want to have her near and neither care for her motherly attentions, she was out of political influence, a relic of the past, to be put into a corner and forgotten. Dalinar was basically the last basket she had to lay her eggs into, it was a gamble, he could have sent her away, but she hoped he wouldn't. 

She is a mother without children, a wife without a husband, a scholar without the proper training, an engineer without the experience... She is nothing but a blank check, hence she tried, once more, to be... something.

 

[Toaster Retribution]

11 hours ago, maxal said:

Authors cannot control which character their readers are going to latch on.This being said, I am unsure how surprised Brandon truly is about the size of the ever growing Adolin's fanbase... He must have known when he wrote WoR the readers would enjoy/talk about the character, though I do not think he foresaw he would catch on as he did. Adolin is a very bizarre case in the wonderful word of books (a supporting character treated as more, but confirmed to never be more while being more popular than most main)... still it is an interesting exercise to compare how readers were supposed to react to the given characters...

In the case of the character at hand, Navani, it seems obvious to me she was never meant to be a major player. Her primary role into the story has been to be Dalinar's former love interest, thus making her the only living link to his dubious past. She is by who we learns snatches and glimpses of Dalinar's former wife and it is through her we got out first ideas as to how younger Dalinar was perceived among his peers. Her secondary role was to provide insight onto fabrial technology. It is customary of Brandon to introduce scholars or engineer-like characters with the intended purpose of transferring information onto his world to his readers. Navani strikes to me as such a character, a role Jasnah has also fulfilled within WoK.

I had heard of Brandon's very old plans regarding a Navani flashback book, but I doubt he ever planned for her to be a major player. I figured he simply wanted to tell the Dalinar/Navani/Gavilar love triangle story and he thought, for a while, he would need Navani's POV to do so. He has since then changed his mind.

As for the character itself, I would say all of the above commentaries are valid. Depending on who you ask, Navani (and Jasnah) can be interpreted as cold and emotionless. I suspect this is merely due to their personality: they aren't expressive people and whatever emotions inhabit them do not often surface. For instance, one could say Navani's reaction upon hearing Jasnah's death was rather meek: no screams, no tears, just angry blank assessment or so is how I recall the scene. However the mere fact we saw a visible emotional response from her indicate how disturbed he was. She isn't emotionless nor cold, but very reserved and guarded. While I certainly think her personality plays a strong role into this behavior, society plays another one: Alethi are reserved and hardly ever display emotions. They are contained, for the most part. Navani has thus learned how to wear a mask, a politician mask, forever scheming unless she plays with her fabrial, this is when we see the real Navani.

I say, Alethi are an entire society of repressed people 

Her arrival onto the Shattered Plains was her last game... People often blame her for dropping in to claim Dalinar, but perhaps they forgot she was a woman out of options. She was basically chased from Kholinar, both her children do not want to have her near and neither care for her motherly attentions, she was out of political influence, a relic of the past, to be put into a corner and forgotten. Dalinar was basically the last basket she had to lay her eggs into, it was a gamble, he could have sent her away, but she hoped he wouldn't. 

She is a mother without children, a wife without a husband, a scholar without the proper training, an engineer without the experience... She is nothing but a blank check, hence she tried, once more, to be... something.

 

This actually made me feel more for her than I did before! Great post!

I am still happy about the fact that we dont get her flashbacks though. There are so many others I'd rather see.

[sheep]

Reasons why people don’t like Navani

CYNICAL EDITION

you can actually take this approach to every character from anything, it's pretty fun.

 

 

She’s only a minor character so she’s not as well developed as the headliners.

Her purpose in the story is to elaborate Dalinar’s backstory.  She appears in a handful of Dalinar chapters, and gets only half a chapter in her PoV in WoK.  And what comes from her PoV isn’t that flattering either. 

You think she’s cold?  She thinks she’s cold.

Quote

She could remember being a young woman, playing the games expertly, delighting in ways to manipulate the system.

What had that gotten her? A dead husband whom she’d never loved and a “privileged” position in court that amounted to being put out to pasture.

 

Navani felt cold. Cold, numb. How could this happen? After finally— finally—making that stone-headed man see her as a woman, rather than as a sister. And now…

 

Chapter 69, "Justice", Way of Kings

 

 

Readers like Dalinar.

Dalinar hates Blackthorn Dalinar, but Navani keeps bringing it out, unaware.  Therefore people who empathise with Dalinar dislike Navani.

 

Quote

“If I let a few cracks into that armor, I might return to the man I once was. A man I never want to be again.”

Could he explain how she, without trying, pried at those restraints?

 

Chapter 64, "A Man of Extremes", Way of Kings

 

 

Their relationship was established for questionable reasons.

Dalinar wants a relationship because he wants someone who doesn’t think he’s crazy.  Navani wants a relationship because she feels sad, lonely, useless and needy.

 

Quote

“I need you,” Navani said. “I’ve known it for years, though I feared it would destroy you with guilt, so I fled. But I couldn’t stay away. Not with the way they treat me. Not with what is happening to the world. I’m terrified, Dalinar, and I need you.”

 

Chapter 61, "Right for Wrong", Way of Kings

 

Her attraction to him seems superficial and somewhat hypocritical, since she turned him down the first time because she was scared of his intensity.

Quote

She leaned toward him. “Do you know why I picked Gavilar instead of you all those years ago?”

Blast. Her comments—her presence—were like a goblet of darkwine poured into the middle of his crystal thoughts. The clarity he’d sought in hard labor was quickly vanishing. Did she have to be so forward? He didn’t answer the question. Instead, he picked up his pace and hoped that she’d see he didn’t want to discuss the topic.

It was no use. “I didn’t pick him because he would become king, Dalinar. Though that’s what everyone says. I chose him because you frightened me. That intensity of yours…it scared your brother too, you know.”

He said nothing.

“It’s still in there,” she said. “I can see it in your eyes. But you’ve wrapped armor around it, a glistening set of Shardplate to contain it. That is part of what I find fascinating.”

 

Chapter 28, "Decision", Way of Kings

 

…And she toys with him when she flirts and acts like a flighty girl.

 

Quote

Navani had matured since their youth, her moods always had changed as quickly as the seasons. In truth, that was part of her allure.

 

Chapter 64, "A Man of Extremes", Way of Kings

 

Quote

 

She laughed softly. “I’m not trying to take advantage of you, Dalinar, I—” She paused. “Well, perhaps I am taking advantage of you just a little.”

 

Chapter 28, "Decision", Way of Kings

 

 

Readers just can’t relate to her.

Her backstory is pretty much a “traditional love triangle” between one teenaged girl and a handsome Ace Pilot Prince Sunraiser 2.0 and his brooding and intense brother.  Dalinar is around 50, Navani is 3 months older, and Jasnah is 34 in WoK, so Navani’s romance must have happened when she was a teenager. 

 

Quote

“Mathana,” Dalinar said, bowing and using the formal term for an older sister. Navani was only three months his senior, but it was still applicable.

 

Chapter 22, "Eyes, Hands, or Spheres", Way of Kings

 

Most people don’t pick up epic fantasy for the teen love triangle melodrama.  That’s why paranormal fantasy exists.

 

 

Their whole relationship is a frustrating side plot.

WILL THEY?  WON’T THEY?  AHHH!!!!

THEY COULD HAVE JUST SOLVED EVERYTHING IF THEY JUST TALKED TO EACH OTHER 30+ YEARS AGO.

Quote

“I couldn’t decide if you were interested or not,” Navani said softly to Dalinar as they slowly walked around the grounds of Elhokar’s raised field palace. “Half the time, you seemed like a flirt—offering hints at courtship, then backing away. The other half of the time, I was certain I had misread you.”

 

Chapter 64, "A Man of Extremes", Way of Kings

 

If you’ve been in a relationship before, this type of sitcom/soap opera behaviour isn’t romantic.  It’s plain frustrating.  And completely inexcusable if it happens in a story or TV show where mobile phones exist.

 

 

To some readers, nothing would have been lost if the “Navani_as_love_interest” characterisation was taken out.  Navani is not a bad character – she’s just veering uncomfortably close to the edge of being a cardboard love interest, when you’re reading WoK for the first time.  She serves a purpose within the story, as a scholar and artifabrian with science and translation skills.  Her sketchbook pages do some world exploring the level of engineering tech just as Shallan’s sketchbook pages explore Roshar’s nature.  Her presence justifies injecting AWESOME into the story in the form of water repelling fabrials.  She is an exposition character, explaining Stormlight-based technology like Halfshards and Grandbows and Painrials in a way that you would never get from Dalinar and Adolin’s PoV because they’re not science people, or Shallan or Kaladin’s because they’re poor.

 

But the “decades of repressed drama and romance” angle can bring on the eyerolls to certain people, and YMMV, but the story would probably have had the same ending without it.  Then again, it could all be a long-planned set up for stuff that happens in SA3.  Who knows.

 

I don't hate Navani, but wow, writing that was cathartic.

[Rielle]

That was an impressive post, and I have to say I agree with every single one of your points. The fact remains, I don't really like Navani - and that's because of the whole Dalinar/Navani/Gavilar relationship.  True, Sanderson may be setting something up for book 3, but it seems unnecessary and just bugs me. I like that she's a character with brains and passion, and it's kind of cute how excited she gets about her new fabrials - but every time I start warming up to her again, she interacts with Dalinar in a way that sets my teeth on edge.

I guess maybe I don't like it because Dalinar's relationship with his wife is still just hanging there - maybe if it were resolved, I'd like her more. 

Fortunately, though, she's not a major enough character for me to really dislike her. We'll see how that changes with Book 3.  

[SamsonSeaBorn]

5 hours ago, Rielle said:

That was an impressive post, and I have to say I agree with every single one of your points. The fact remains, I don't really like Navani - and that's because of the whole Dalinar/Navani/Gavilar relationship.  True, Sanderson may be setting something up for book 3, but it seems unnecessary and just bugs me. I like that she's a character with brains and passion, and it's kind of cute how excited she gets about her new fabrials - but every time I start warming up to her again, she interacts with Dalinar in a way that sets my teeth on edge.

I guess maybe I don't like it because Dalinar's relationship with his wife is still just hanging there - maybe if it were resolved, I'd like her more. 

Fortunately, though, she's not a major enough character for me to really dislike her. We'll see how that changes with Book 3.  

I suspect he went to the nightwatcher to save Renarin and in turn lost his wife and all memory of her 

[Erklitt]

20 hours ago, SamsonSeaBorn said:

I suspect he went to the nightwatcher to save Renarin and in turn lost his wife and all memory of her 

Maybe I'm too influenced by the Nightwatcher game we play here, were most people try to match the bane to the boon.

However, even before I discovered that game, I always supposed Dalinar probably asked the Nightwatcher to take away his pain at the loss of his wife and got more than he bargained for. 

[Edit]

Found where I got that idea:

Quote

Besides, what of his own wife? Dead these ten years, wiped by his foolishness from his mind.

WoK Chapter 22 Page 327

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Erklitt

[SamsonSeaBorn]

1 hour ago, Erklitt said:

Maybe I'm too influenced by the Nightwatcher game we play here, were most people try to match the bane to the boon.

However, even before I discovered that game, I always supposed Dalinar probably asked the Nightwatcher to take away his pain at the loss of his wife and got more than he bargained for. 

I used to think his wife died during child birth but after a few rereads I started to think Renarin was at least old enough to have partial memories of her, so you might be right. So much anticipation. ... SA3 at 53% first draft.....omg the excitement is real.

[Argel]

15 minutes ago, SamsonSeaBorn said:

SA3 at 53% first draft.....omg the excitement is rea

Agonizingly real. I really how the upcoming Lift short story in Arcanum Unbound is one of Brandon's best!!

[CaptainRyan]

@SamsonSeaBorn and @Argel : If it makes you feel any better the bar is actually 5% higher than that - it is, currently, sitting at 58%! Woohoo! Roughly 20,000 words closer to completion!