SweetLift

Just got to this part where Shallan is reading the letter. Definitely thought Tien. Still brainstorming about other possibilities, but I think it is a good possibility. But he couldn't heal himself...so maybe he had not spoken the words... The carving he made for Kaladin, along with all the beauty he sees in his rocks and how he can make everyone feel happy makes me think for sure he had a spren hanging about

I was just going to make a theory that the sphere is a Dawnshard!

I searched and was not able to find anything in the forum in regards to this 'hidden order', but please point me to it if i missed it. In WoR it says that only nine of the ten orders as one would not abandon their arms and flee. Does this mean that there is an order of KR that has been roaming Roshar since the recreance? If yes my bet is the skybreakers, but I may be misinterpreting this quote. “This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at this time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine. ” — Words of Radiance, Chapter 38, page 20

There is a lot about this in the Secret Histories, especially in the second part two. Not sure that I can be specific here, but there is more info about the cognitive realm and the spiritual realm.

Can we add forgery to this one, seems like the light weaving and forgery combined with this level of skill could be very powerful.

i still think they cryptics want Elhokar, but I am not sure if they want him to be a radiant. I remember when Shallan started seeing the cryptics when she was drawing it really freaked her out and then the first time she heard (or remembered hearing) the voice, it was scary. I was worried for her at first. So Elhokar being concerned is not surprising, especially since they have tried talking to him. Are all Spren in fact 'good'?

I am really stuck on the visions right now. Are they the same vision? is it a broadcast (someone else used that term and I like it) that certain people (maybe Bond Smiths) can access? But i am with you, the way the people interact with him and are confused by Dalinar's behavior is strange. It seems like it is possible something else is going on in these visions...I don't know what

And HOW did he get Nightblood!?

I thought that the shadows went away when Kal came was because of his bond with Syl. Cryptics and Honorspren do not get along (according to Syl). Edited: I do like this scene and hope that it means that Elhokar will become a better leader

So multiple people can receive the message (like the idea of the storm broadcasting messages). Is the message the same for everyone or is it possible there are multiple messages being broadcast? I thought Kal riding the storm was an 'advantage' or perk of his bond with Syl, rather than receiving a general message; it seems more specific. For example, when he is stuck in the high storm in the chasm with Shallan. The storm father speaks directly to him. And he also speaks directly to Eshonai (sp)

I didn't mean to say there is a link between the death rattles and visions. Just remembered that there was someone noted as seeing visions and he happened to be someone that ended up having a death rattle. I didn't know own how to identify him. I am in terms Ted in what his rattle but not as it relates to visions. Hope that clarifies...

i have been thinking and reading several threads have led me to think about the visions. A death rattle was recorded by an individual known to have visions during high storms. Gavilar had them (is there actual proof of that?) and Dalinar has them. Can multiple people have these visions? Are they the same for everyone? How does a vision work? It seems that Dalinar can interact very specifically with his visions. He can fight beasts, the radiant notices his skill at fighting and tells him to go to Urithiru to become a radiant. Does this have an impact on the past or the man (Heb?) who's body he was in during the vision? Did he influence Nohadon to write the Way of Kings? Is there more to this than we have seen so far?

I like a lot of what you say here. I do not remember all of the visions but I do remember that in the one with Midnight Essence, there was not stormlight. Dalinar notices the flickering flames and wonders about it being inefficient. Not sure if that is really helpful, but it proves that stormlight was not around (in the third epic, not sure when that is in reference to the current year). I did think that the Storm Father was a splinter of Honor, is that the same thing as a cognitive shadow? I will have to

There is a lot happening in this thread. Skybreakers and Darkness - In the Lift interlude, she asks Darkness why her, why is he going to kill her, there are so many other bad people doing bad things. He says to her, what she is becoming will bring about bad things. He maybe is mad, I think that he believes he is helping. Could more people surgebinding bring about a desolation faster, or are more people able to surgebind because a desolation is coming? Parshendi - I find it interesting that at the Tower, when Kalidin begins surgebinding they recognize what he is doing. And they are afraid. Visions - There was a death rattle recorded by a man that was stated to have visions during high storms. I cannot remember the death rattle, but is this evidence that perhaps other people all over Roshar may be having visions? And if so are they different for each person? I found it interesting that Dalinar could interact in the vision, he fought off the Midnight Essence and spoke with the radiant before the avatar began speaking. It makes me wonder how these visions are formed. I guess i will have to do more searching to see if i have missed this somewhere. It does make me think that Gavilar and Dalinar could have experienced different visions. Maybe they are somehow tied to a geographical location? or a place that a person has visited... Sons of Honor and Gavlilar - the way that Tarivangian speaks of Gavliar makes me think that at some point Gavliar may have changed his mind about his loyalties, or playing on more than one team... Ghostbloods - a couple world hoppers, This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules are they doing? I need read again and pay more attention to the meetings with these people Is it possible the world will not be saved? Is it part of a bigger Cosmere plot....not saying that I believe that, but just a random thought

I could see how she seems cold in the beginning of WoK. After the Tower and later in WoR we see more emotion from her. She loves Adolin and Renarin and then Shallan. I think she is in a very difficult position in the beginning of WoK and she tried the best way that she knew how to, position herself in the place where she felt that she was needed and she could be of use. I could see how she would scratch and claw her way up from feeling like she was no longer of value to family or society.

For a while I thought maybe she (Lalai) was Iytl, until Shallon saw that her mask was growing into her face (and I read BoM) but she could obviously still be in a society. When Gavilar talks to Szeth he says he expected him. When he says Sadeas to Szeth, he then says "I thought" -- as though he was confused or possible hesitant to speak his friend's name -- he was going to say something else. Which I think would have been "that I could trust him". As far as Amaram and Sadeas, i think that Amaram did something bad to Jasnah (based on the way that she hates Amaram and she dislikes her - no real proof) and Sadeas knows about it, possibly even protected him.

Sorry that I am late to this party, but I want to do somewhat agree with you. And I think that there is a little proof in the books. I think the proof is in the swearing. In other Cosmere books, the characters swear by the magic/shard or the afterlife of that planet. (Please forgive my misspelling I listen on audible). Ex. Warbreaker - Colors, or The Iridescent Colors, Misborn Scadrial - Lord Ruler, Harmony's Bands, Rust and Ruin, Shadows for Silence Threnody (no Shard) the God Beyond is mentioned in the same manner, Elantris Sel - Merciful Domi those are what I can remember off the top of my head. BUT on Roshar, they swear by Storms and the Storm Father or the Tranquiline Halls, Damnation, Kalek, Blood of my ancestors etc. So my proof (I think) is in Dalinar's vision (the one that he sees when running from the unexpected high storm after leaving Elokhar's camp) where he sees the Midnight Essesnce. The woman, Tafa curses/swears by "Sweet wisdom of Patar" and "Three Gods". These are not currently used on Roshar. And i think there is an Epigraph of a death rattle where there is mention of there being Three and now there are Two. I have not gone back over all of the visions to see if there are others that may indicate a change in the state of Religion on Roshar. Perhaps this is not really proof but I think there is something to the idea that there is something wrong with the afterlife. On Scadrial in the "new world" they use Rust and Ruin, and Harmony's Bands, which would indicate that when there is a change in the Shards/Religion of a planet, the swearing changes too. I wanted to share but was not sure how to other than posting on this older thread.

WHAT!? I missed that. Maybe Dalinar and Elhokar hid it, or someone took it?!

I actually just read a recent posting that someone had of many interview, maybe a WoB but he said that Sazed did not actually say that he spoke with them, just that they were happy where they were...not sure what the implications of that are...I am trying to track down the source, but not sure if I will be able to find it again...

But my point is that she was not dead, the first time. In SoS she keeps telling Wax to ask Harmony why he did not step in, she is trying to make Wax angry at Harmony. However, she was not killed by Wax's shot. She could have stood up and said, well that sucked but hey, I am still here, let's get lunch. And so this probably proves the theory that she removed her additional spike after Wax leaves the Roughs, because she never would have allowed herself to be shot by Wax had she been in control of her body. I am just irritated that Wax doesn't see the connection between her being a Kandra and that he actually only killed her the once, by choice this time as Harmony's sword...

Am I forgetting who Goradel is? Didn't he help free Vin from TLR prison and get brutally killed by Marsh at the end of HoA? Or am I mixing names? If so, I guess he could have been married and had children...but the relevance is that he is Aradel's ancestor we don't need a family tree for him.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. If he does have a relationship with this girl that seems to be so much younger than himself he would eventually have to tell her the truth... As far as Milan (I am spelling it wrong sorry) and Wayne 1) doesn't she have a thing for TenSoon? 2) she is not rough enough for him 3) very good friends is what I predict for them

I originally didn't like Steris for Wax. I think she might be a little on the autism spectrum with all of her need to plan things out so precisely and not being very emotional (as stated in writing from previous suitors). After SoS I would not mind seeing them together. I like her so much more because she was actually there and supportive of him. I am sad for Marasi, I hope that she grows up more, which we did see a great deal in this book. Yes I see a possible future for Wayne with the inventor's daughter. OR is he just feeling that he can live vicariously through her because someone killed her daddy?

So that blows my theory that Wayne is Hoid (which I know didn't have much merit, but the personality was fooling me). Thanks for asking because I missed it. Going to have to listen again it takes 2 or 3 times to catch everything!

Wow, this is a lot of information. My thoughts are in line with what someone else mentioned. Lessie is a freaking Kondra. Why does she keep blaming Harmony for Wax shooting her? It didn't kill her. That is really bothering me. Wax is completely missing this fact at the end and I find it a little frustrating. Lessie never died so technically he didn't kill her in AoL. As far as theories of Tan and such, my thoughts are that Harmony whispered to him when he moves Lessie in AoL. Isn't it possible for Tan to have been visited by other Kondra on Harmony's behalf because he didn't have control over Lessie at that point? We really don't know exactly when Lessie removes her second Spike...