Long Game 22: Corenne al'Daishar

[the winter system]

I meant Luckat. I've known Sart since my first game MR4. 

 

Oh. 

 

Dang. I'm old.

[Elbereth]

Luckat was also in LG10, yup. Although she joined in LG2. So technically she's even older than you.

EDIT: Luckat was also in MR4.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[Conquestor]

Why are we talking about players and their experience level? Another thing to add to the channeler, is that when their warder dies, their weaves get refilled. Elodin might be evil, but I am going to try and find the others and let a wolfbrother decide if Elodin should be targeted again. I do agree that Aman would make a great mayor, but what about Joe who is basically a cleared villager, for now.

[phattemer]

I pretty much try not to miss one, while Wilson has to mod often and doesn't like QFs.

[the winter system]

Sidetracked, I guess. 

 

and why is joe basically confirmed? 

[Elbereth]

Why are we talking about players and their experience level? Another thing to add to the channeler, is that when their warder dies, their weaves get refilled. Elodin might be evil, but I am going to try and find the others and let a wolfbrother decide if Elodin should be targeted again. I do agree that Aman would make a great mayor, but what about Joe who is basically a cleared villager, for now.

We were talking about them because Joe raised the point that the remaining eliminators were likely new and I asked why. Thank you for getting us back to the discussion at hand, though.

...Point, about the weaves. So if Wilson's Channeler is evil, we're back to square one with Elodin. Again. >>

And why is Joe cleared? I agree that he's soft-confirmed by Nyali leaving, but I wouldn't consider that being "cleared".

I'm going to have to leave for dance soon, unfortunately, but I'm writing up a post of my thoughts on everyone and will post it when I get back. We really need to get more discussion going, though. I think everyone's kind of waiting for someone to come on and say "I'm a Thief-taker and I scanned __ targeting Wilson last night" or whatever, so we have a definite lynch target. But that's not how discussion happened. There have been three votes on me and a couple on Meta (who I'm not in favor of lynching at the moment because I have no reason beyond gut alone to suspect him - he has been quiet recently, however, so if you're not busy with RL or whatever, Meta, could you post please? - also side note to this, Phatt, it'd be nice if you would say something actually game-related rather than just metagame discussion). Does anyone else have any alternative lynch candidates?

Until I get back, I'll vote on Conquestor to get the discussion going. He's been tunneling on Elodin being Fain quite a lot, and hasn't actually talked about much else for quite a while. Not the best of reasoning, I know, but it's all I have time for right now.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Winter. Hmph.

EDIT 2: Retracted vote.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[A Joe in the Bush]

I'd rather not be mayor, because I prefer not to vote most turns, so the power would be wasted on me.

[the winter system]

OKAY SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN BOTHERING ME. 

WHAT THE HECK IS TUNNELLING? 
 

[A Joe in the Bush]

Why do you keep bolding everything you say? And changing the colour, or capslocking?

Tunneling is focusing on one player and ignoring any evidence of their innocence.

[the winter system]

devotion says hi. 

ruin says hi. 

 

lg10 

lg14

recall? 

nah, they're memory should've been ruined by now

you just want to make everything about ruin. it's basically devil's advocate. 

ruin isn't bad! 
you say bad like bad is a bad thing. 

good point. 

anyway, together, we're the shard of chaos. 

no connection to Chaos. 

[Gamma Fiend]

While I enjoy having the largest threads and highest level of activity, let's try and keep discussion as focused around the current game and as relevant as possible, please and thank you!

[Dustbringer12]

 

Yeah, I would like to suggest that the Wolf-Brothers focus their kills on actual suspects at this point though, if they kill at all(not killing is definitely an option you guys!  ). If a player is inactive for too long, they could get switched with a pinch-hitter or you could kill them then, if they're genuinely inactive. But Twei wasn't really what I'd label as 'inactive.' She was just having trouble keeping up with the thread, and understandably so.

 

So, on to those actual suspects. My current pool of suspects for the last Darkfriends are Meta(lots of people suspect him), phattemer(I'm hoping he'll participate in the lynch finally. Well, I suspect he'll be involved with it in one way or another.  ), Elodin(still suspicious of him. Plus, Meta has defended him quite a bit lately), Haelbarde(yeah, still wondering about you  ), and Hellscythe(still lingering suspicion from last Cycle). Oh yeah, and Conquestor a bit as well. I would lynch any of those players except Haelbarde at this point.

 

To respond to Rubik about what I'd like to hear from you, I want to know who you're suspicious of and any thoughts you have on the game so far. Just basic stuff. You haven't talked much about who you think is suspicious. You've said how you go about analyzing players, but we haven't really heard the results of said analyzing. You helped lynch Gunshy, true, but you were pretty late with your vote and the lynch was basically settled when you voted, so I'm not inclined to trust you very much from that.

 

Edit: Voted on Meta.

 

Edit2: I kinda still want to be Mayor, but whatever. 

My thoughts. hmm...  I think that several people are being fishy, but I don't know who is the most suspicious.  MY problem is that I am still trying to get used to this format of mafia, and my analysis of people is very inconclusive because I don't know all the strategies, and is very slow.  My analysis is basically take someone who looks suspicious based off of several things fishy they have done, and go back over all their posts.  Look at what they said, and make a list of every reason why they would post that (how it could be manipulative, or if they actually believe it).  I try to look for patterns in their posts.  at this point is has been a while, and I want to go read the thread.  New suspicions come up, and the person I have been looking at defends them-self with a really good point.  I start to look into my new suspicion(s), and someone asks for my opinion.  I try to bring everything together, and send it out.  I continue researching.  I vote off of my current most suspicious character, and continue researching.  The current day cycle runs out. I got to bed tired, and wake up to the night cycle, which with PMing and other stuff makes it even harder to do my kind of research.  I am getting faster at just reading the patterns, but it is a hard process.  My current problem is that I have a very busy weekend, and I have been spending all day preparing.  I have to go leave after this post to mow the lawn.  Right now I am looking into the suspicions on Meta people have to see if they are justified.  For the previous specified reason, I will have to drop this after this post for a while.

 

As a general question, could I get a list of the different strategies so that this process could be sped up?

 

 

Why are we talking about players and their experience level? Another thing to add to the channeler, is that when their warder dies, their weaves get refilled. Elodin might be evil, but I am going to try and find the others and let a wolfbrother decide if Elodin should be targeted again. I do agree that Aman would make a great mayor, but what about Joe who is basically a cleared villager, for now.

You do realize that if we keep voting for him, he will probably be corrupted, right?

 

Also, as a side note, part of the reason for a busy weekend is that I am going on a trip next week for a few days.  I will be without WiFi, and unable to respond.  Please refrain from eviscerating dismembering murdering Lynching me while I am gone.

Edited June 10, 2016 by RubiksCube

[Conquestor]

I meant soft-cleared and I said for now. Elbereth, you say something good about me getting everyone back to discussing about who to lynch, but then you say that I am suspicious because I have been tunneling on Elodin? Just seems weird to me and I am still sorry about that Elodin. I do agree that Meta might be Fain or Darkfriend or even a corrupt. Elbereth is suspicious, but is mostly gut. I am not completely sure about Elodin at this point, he might be a dreamwalker, a Darkfriend or both.

Wait a second, does anyone remember what Wilson said on cycle two, I believe. Wilson said something about how he had set in action a plan the would definitely get him killed, so it was pointless for Fain to corrupt her/him. (Sorry Wilson forgot which) What if Fain tried to target Wilson, but Wilson got the Darkfriends to target him/her.

[the winter system]

people make no sense. *complains* 

[TheMightyLopen]

Wait a second, does anyone remember what Wilson said on cycle two, I believe. Wilson said something about how he had set in action a plan the would definitely get him killed, so it was pointless for Fain to corrupt her/him. (Sorry Wilson forgot which) What if Fain tried to target Wilson, but Wilson got the Darkfriends to target him/her.

 

What exactly are you saying here? How would Wilson "get" the Darkfriends to target her and how would she know if Fain tried to target her? I don't see how that's possible. If she knew who Fain or a Darkfriend was during the previous Night, I'm pretty sure she would have told multiple people and asked around to get a Wolf-Brother to kill them.

 

Rubik, you said that several people are acting fishy. Who are those people? I don't just want to hear who you're most suspicious of. As for strategies used around here, I'm not sure I can be of much help. My strategy is to point out inconsistencies in players posts or suspicious looking posts. It's just basic mafia strategy I guess? Sometimes we come up with plans regarding roles, but those are usually discussed in PM's.

 

Aman did tell me he was Detaining Jaime, in case anyone wanted confirmation about that. I don't think that Elbereth is Fain though. At one point, Wilson told me she suspected El of being Fain(so she's not Wilson's channeler I'm assuming), but after a while, Wilson told me that she'd talked with El a bit and told me point blank that El wasn't Fain. She definitely could be Corrupted, but until the evidence suggests that(of which I have seen nothing so far), I would assume she's village(c'mon, she helped kill Sart and was the first player to really push for lynching Gunshy. I think it's safe to assume she's not a Darkfriend at least).

 

About Meta. El, you really need to get over his rep. Sure, he could be village. It's a possibility that we shouldn't overlook. But that doesn't mean we should just leave him be until he gets scanned or something(and by "leave him be" I mean never put any real pressure on him. You say you'd like to hear more of from him, and so would I, but that doesn't really pressure him at all, at least, not like a vote would). For me, I'm suspicious of him because of 1. His comments about players connected to Sart before Sart was lynched. He tried to imply that me and Sart could be eliminators together based off of very weak evidence(Sart Mayor voted for me), he accused Winter of defending Sart(but hasn't mentioned that again for some reason?) and he tried to make it look like Mailliw was a Darkfriend if Sart turned out to be one as well. I mentioned before that I'm leaning village for both Winter and mailliw and of course I know I'm village(and I hope I've proven that to some degree at this point). Then, 2. He cast suspicion on Seonid and Bard for their 'defenses' of Sart. Again, I'm leaning pretty heavily village for both of them. And 3. Not a huge point against him really, but he didn't talk much about Gunshy when Wilson brought him up for suspicion(he basically said "I could see it. It was a bit of a slip but I'd like to hear from him before we think about lynching him."). I'd even told Meta that he was one of three people I suspected from the interactions of the Sart lynch(the three being Elodin, Gunshy, and Haelbarde), and he never came back to me on it, and at the time, said he'd keep an eye on them when he went back through and then went on to suggest that maybe Elodin was Fain after all(this was before the Detainment mess happened). So to me, it kinda felt like he was trying to avoid bringing very much attention to Gunshy, even though me and Wilson had said he was suspicious and other players were talking about him as well.

 

Anyways, that's basically all of my reasoning I think. There's also the fact that both Wilson and Maill said there was something off about him.

[A Joe in the Bush]

 Ok, I am highly amused. Sorry for Laughing at you Gamma, but it's hilarious.

 

I was just informed that there was another GM messup, and my Redirect on Meta wasn't succesful. I was unable to redirect Meta.

[the winter system]

why the downvote? 

seriousness is boring. 

yesh, we'll get back. 

[Mailliw73]

Ok, I am highly amused. Sorry for Laughing at you Gamma, but it's hilarious.

I was just informed that there was another GM messup, and my Redirect on Meta wasn't succesful. I was unable to redirect Meta.

Trust me when I say that's to be expected. Meta can expound if he wants.

[Amanuensis]

Oh man dontcha just love it when Ada does something that involves like a million people and loads of PMs and lies. 

 

Well on the bright side I did tell people in PMs that Elb was evil 

 

On the other hand, I haven't made it official yet, but now I will so Meta.

 

Oh and Elbereth. I'm so colorful today!

 

Well, I guess that makes sense. More reason than my extremely flimsy suspicion on Meta. So. Elb. I don't mean to jump on a bandwagon. This is going to become one, isn't it? Anyway. Don't bandwagon! 

 

EDIT: she says while forming a bandwagon. 

 

I'm suspicious, okay? I agree! 

 

and so did meta with wilson and they were right. 

 

what is the point of that? 

 

there isn't one. 

 

sigh. 

 

 

Two additional votes in thirty minutes? Way to make a guy feel uncomfortable about his decision. What I posted was a theory. Nothing about is certain. Braize, most of it was pure conjecture. For Taln's sake; Stink, why have you been telling people Elb is evil? And for that matter, who? Do you have an actual reason to suspect her? Or was that your trusty RNG again? And Winter, if you've got your own suspicions, even if they're flimsy, you should pursue them. Have you tried articulating the reasons why you're suspicious of Meta? Like, beyond all this "he just feels off" nonsense people keep spouting? I get that, I have bad feelings about good players too, BUT unless Meta and Stink are a Padan/Fain Combo, then Meta is very likely a villager.

 

I actually disagree. It depends on who Padan is, but there are very few good reasons to wait on converting. Fain needs to use up all of his conversions before he dies, which matters more than getting someone with a specific role. Sure, a Wolfbrother or a Viewer or a Ta'veren would be great, but that's of secondary importance to getting as many people as possible. And with the number of possibilities of being blocked, he's not guaranteed to get a conversion even if he does Corrupt every cycle. So unless Fain is someone who has magically escaped all suspicion up to this point (and I'm pretty sure there's almost no one in that category) and thus didn't feel at all in danger of dying, he definitely should have corrupted last night regardless of whether he knew roles or not. (Whether he did isn't the same question, since just because I think it's good strategy for him to have converted doesn't mean Fain did. But I do think it's likely.)

 

That's a fair point. It's not how I would do things (unless I had gained a ton of attention early on, as I did in the last Long Game), but if that's how you'd go about it then... well, fair enough. That being said, telling me what you "would do" doesn't really convince me of anything. I feel like this is the exact argument you used against me in LG21, which was as valid then for me as it is for you now. You could very easily just be saying this to maneuver yourself out of harm's way; though I guess you've already adressed that many times, so I won't beat that horse any more dead than it already is. As a disclaimer though, these statement apply to quite a lot of your response, so I'll only quote what I feel needs to be commented on from here on out.

 

Because if there wasn't another Whitecloak, we'd have Gunshy guaranteed to have detained Elodin, which is a useful piece of information (although it doesn't clear him until we can prove that he's a Dreamwalker, which we have not yet). A second Whitecloak means that's not guaranteed. You did assure me that that that Whitecloak didn't detain Elodin, but even that doesn't mean that there isn't a third Whitecloak out there who did.

Was it unlikely that the Darkfriends would have the only Whitecloak? Probably, yeah. But I was hoping for it anyway, until you mentioned a second Whitecloak. That's why I was annoyed.

 

The currently living Whitecloak detained a player on N1 other than Elodin. Whether or not they want to reveal that to the thread is fine, as in doing so he would be implicating something he might not want to be common knowledge, but I can assure you that unless there is another Whitecloak (which I severely doubt), Gunshy was the one who targeted Elodin.

 

Um, how did she confirm Bard as innocent? Maybe I'm misremembering, but I'm pretty sure that's not what happened...

The reasons I thought it was a good plan were 1) I wasn't aware that it wouldn't make Fain lose a charge (I thought about it but forgot to ask Gamma, so I was assuming it would), 2) I wasn't thinking of it in the context of Joe being Ta'veren but only a conversion target being detained, and 3) anything that causes no conversion is a good plan. And you could learn a lot from that, too. Whoever you mentioned it to would be slightly more cleared, and you could narrow down the suspects for Fain to an extent by who would and wouldn't convert him. And I don't really understand why detaining Jaime is any better of a plan.

 

Nyali redirected Bard but failed because he made no action the same night Padan corrupted someone. Therefore he could not be Padan. For the most part Jaimee was chosen because she on the half of the player list that consisted of players whom I had not confirmed yet, and I figured there was a good chance of her being either Corrupted soon (if she hadn't been already) or Padan herself, which, if Padan follows the strategy you would go along with, means I very well might have been right.

 

 

(I wouldn't - no offense, Jaime) What kind of assumption is that? If I had tried to convert her and failed, she could have been targeted by Mask of Mirrors, or detained, or be a Dreamwalker. Or someone had roleblocked me. I'm not sure whether there'd be a distinction there.

Point being, there's lots of options (all of which I was discussing in detail with a few people last night, for a related situation). And Mask of Mirrors is probably the least likely of them, and wouldn't even guarantee that she was in fact a Channeler (although it would be somewhat likely given that I don't think anyone else would use Mask of Mirrors on her). Why would she use Mask of Mirrors on herself, anyway? I don't see much value in that.

So no. I would not assume that. That would be dumb. (Nor would I convert her, in all probability - there are several people in this game that I want to be evil with, and I'm not giving away that chance.)

 

Those were just some hypotheticals I presented to emphasize my point, possible explanations for why you would do what you did, each more unlikely than the last. The main point in your favor is, if you were Padan and did try to convert Jaimee, or had already converted her, I think you'd be smart enough not to draw a connection between you two. But then again, you might be smart for doing just that, but that's not ideal territory to tread on, so I'll just go with likelihoods here. On that note, I would like to hear from every living player what you think about this situation.

 

Huh. I just noticed a contradiction.

 

And I don't think I'd convert Joe. I might, given that he is a somewhat strategic choice, but there are other choices that I'd be more interested in because I've already converted him once, after all. More interesting to work with someone new. (Again, you don't have any reason to believe that, but it's true.)

 

(Nor would I convert her, in all probability - there are several people in this game that I want to be evil with, and I'm not giving away that chance.)

 

Thing is, Jaimee is new, isn't she? Really the only brand new player that hasn't accrued any suspicion so far. She's a pretty safe choice, if you ask me, especially when you have players like me running around who always give new players leeway. And I'm pretty sure plenty of players know you well enough to be able to narrow down who those people you'd want to be evil with and, if you were found out, that would effectively doom you, so you'd have to do something unexpected. We discussed something very similar to our PM, only how the fact that I wasn't converted could implicate some players and clear some others, so I know you haven't missed that train of thought.

 

I don't really understand how being Fain correlates to talking about PM safety/roleclaiming/secret roles. If anything, I'd try to downplay that as Fain since I'd want claims and such. I talked about those things because I thought they needed to be discussed and reiterated (and because they were a worthwhile way to contribute to the thread when I was also traveling).

 

That's the thing, though. That's what people expect eliminators to do, so a good Fain would do the exact opposite to make them appear, without a doubt, that their not Fain. Why would Fain should himself in the foot by preaching PM safety? To gain player's trust (which you did for the vast majority). Besides, according to your strategy, you would convert as many people as fast as possible regardless of role, and in particular players you'd want to work with. So why would you want roles? As for the secret roles bit, I feel that was an attempt to cause chaos rather than something really genuine. It can appear on the surface as genuine, kinda like bringing up Day One Lynches, but in truth does more harm than good.

 

Oh, one more thing - Wanted to point this out. This is a good example of explaining a vote on someone. This is not tunneling. It's laying out his suspicions in good order so that they can be responded to and everyone else can deem them right or not. This is what there should be more of. Not necessarily this long or thorough, but something to explain your vote clearly. That's why I don't suspect Aman right now. He has actual (although wrong) reasoning for his vote, which is one of the hardest things for eliminators to do. He may in fact be the person I'm least suspicious of right now, replacing Jaime because while I do trust her, that was based on gut whereas this is on reasoning. So... Aman.

 

I just feel like I'm tunneling because while there is information capable of being interpreted against you, I feel like I've had my eye on you from the start, and that's the only reason why I'm as suspicious of you as I am right now. The fact that I'm still convinced your Fain or Corrupted in spite of several points in your favor, to me, makes me concerned that I'm chasing the wrong lead.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Haelbarde]

Finally got around to updating the quicklinks into the post I reserved near the start of cycle. Added a countdown this time too.

 

I've got a bit of time now, so I'm going to try go through the player list and type up my thoughts on each player, looking back on all their posts. It may take me awhile...

Edited June 11, 2016 by Haelbarde

[TheMightyLopen]

Well, I think I've already stated my opinion about Elbereth(that I think she's likely a villager or possibly Corrupted but I don't have any evidence that points to her being Corrupted).

 

I don't think that the fact that Stink trusts Meta so much really means a whole lot. I know his reasoning for why he trusts him, but it's not all that conclusive. Anyways, since Meta seems busy or something, I'll remove my vote from him for now.

 

About Elbereth saying she'd want to work with someone "new." I think she was saying that since she worked with Joe in the Death Note QF where she converted him over to her side, she wouldn't convert him this time. So not "new" as in "new to SE."

 

I'm gonna put my vote on phattemer now. All he's done is talk about meta issues. I don't think he's given one opinion on who he thinks is suspicious or anything like that. He's talked about how kill roles shouldn't kill, but Wolf-Brothers are confirmed village from the start, so that's not helpful. He's also commented about what games he's played, but, again, that tells us nothing about his alignment for this game.

Edited June 12, 2016 by TheMightyLopen

[Gamma Fiend]

By the way, for any of the spectators, possible lurkers, or people who have been following the game, pinch-hitter spots may be coming up soon, if you'd be interested! Just PM me for details!

[Elbereth]

I'm back! And I've finished Captain's Fury () so I'm taking a brief break between books to post. I still have a post of my thoughts on every player coming, but I wanted to respond to everything that's happened first. (Unfortunately, 'everything that's happened' is not very much... Where's the lynch discussion? The only suspicions that have been put forth are Meta and me, as far as I'm aware. And that's been two people. Basically nothing else has happened, and that definitely concerns me in comparison to previous Days.)

I meant soft-cleared and I said for now. Elbereth, you say something good about me getting everyone back to discussing about who to lynch, but then you say that I am suspicious because I have been tunneling on Elodin? Just seems weird to me and I am still sorry about that Elodin. I do agree that Meta might be Fain or Darkfriend or even a corrupt. Elbereth is suspicious, but is mostly gut. I am not completely sure about Elodin at this point, he might be a dreamwalker, a Darkfriend or both.

Encouraging discussion doesn't help you all that much, in my opinion. It's such an obvious "no eliminator would do that" kind of thing that it's basically non-indicative of alignment at this point. And you weren't just saying "guys we need to be talking", only asking a question. So... while it was good of you to remind me that we need to be discussing, I don't think it was necessarily an intentional reminder or something you wouldn't do if you were evil.

That said, it was mostly a vote to get you talking, which it has indeed done, and to start discussion in general, which... hasn't happened as much as I'd like. But I never intended for that vote to stay unless I found something much more suspicious, so Conquestor for now. I'll vote again when I post my thoughts on everyone in a few hours.

Also, nitpicking a bit, but Elodin's not both a Dreamwalker and a Darkfriend, unless there's a third Whitecloak who detained him instead of Gunshy. If he were both, there would have been no need to detain him. Anyway.

Wait a second, does anyone remember what Wilson said on cycle two, I believe. Wilson said something about how he had set in action a plan the would definitely get him killed, so it was pointless for Fain to corrupt her/him. (Sorry Wilson forgot which) What if Fain tried to target Wilson, but Wilson got the Darkfriends to target him/her.

One, Wilson's female.

Two, Corruption comes before kills, so Wilson would've shown up as Corrupted. Which she obviously did not. So that's certainly not the case.

About Meta. El, you really need to get over his rep. Sure, he could be village. It's a possibility that we shouldn't overlook. But that doesn't mean we should just leave him be until he gets scanned or something(and by "leave him be" I mean never put any real pressure on him. You say you'd like to hear more of from him, and so would I, but that doesn't really pressure him at all, at least, not like a vote would).

>> I probably do. But (as far as I'm aware) that's not why I'm not voting for him. I'm not voting for him because (until you pointed all of those interesting things (which I got rid of in the quote because this post is long enough as it is) out) I had no reason to suspect him, and in fact the evidence pointed towards his innocence, given that he's confirmed not Fain and he was the second vote on Sart. And I'm not willing to kill him on gut alone, particularly when he doesn't get the chance to play as often. Just like I would be a little more leery of killing new players.

Given what you've pointed out, though... I'm still not voting until I've gone through everyone, but it's a lot more likely that I'll put my vote there for now.

Actually, you know what? Meta. I can always retract if I find someone more suspicious. And if not, then I'll just have to hope my gut is right.

Two additional votes in thirty minutes? Way to make a guy feel uncomfortable about his decision. What I posted was a theory. Nothing about is certain. Braize, most of it was pure conjecture. For Taln's sake; Stink, why have you been telling people Elb is evil? And for that matter, who? Do you have an actual reason to suspect her? Or was that your trusty RNG again? And Winter, if you've got your own suspicions, even if they're flimsy, you should pursue them. Have you tried articulating the reasons why you're suspicious of Meta? Like, beyond all this "he just feels off" nonsense people keep spouting? I get that, I have bad feelings about good players too, BUT unless Meta and Stink are a Padan/Fain Combo, then Meta is very likely a villager.

Well, I know that Stink told me I was evil, for one. I never got any reasoning for that except that I hadn't asked for a role trade by page three of the PM.

Also, agreed about the other votes on me. I didn't bother responding because you gave me something to actually respond to, but seriously? Just because Ada is excellent at seeming to always know exactly what he's doing doesn't mean you shouldn't think for yourself. Why do you think I'm suspicious? It doesn't matter what he said to me in a PM. What have I said, in thread or to you, that makes you suspect me? Tell me that. Until then, I'm going to suspect that you're eliminators just bandwagoning in order to get a trusted villager killed.

That's a fair point. It's not how I would do things (unless I had gained a ton of attention early on, as I did in the last Long Game), but if that's how you'd go about it then... well, fair enough. That being said, telling me what you "would do" doesn't really convince me of anything. I feel like this is the exact argument you used against me in LG21, which was as valid then for me as it is for you now. You could very easily just be saying this to maneuver yourself out of harm's way; though I guess you've already adressed that many times, so I won't beat that horse any more dead than it already is. As a disclaimer though, these statement apply to quite a lot of your response, so I'll only quote what I feel needs to be commented on from here on out.

Well, part of my point is that most people have had a fair amount of attention lavished on them already. But yes. I'm aware that the "I would do this as an eliminator" defense is nearly as bad as "I wouldn't do this as an eliminator" one. I'm trying to word it in ways that require as few assumptions as possible and rely on my actions in previous games to prove my point, but it is a weak defense for sure. Sorry that I couldn't think of anything better to say.

The currently living Whitecloak detained a player on N1 other than Elodin. Whether or not they want to reveal that to the thread is fine, as in doing so he would be implicating something he might not want to be common knowledge, but I can assure you that unless there is another Whitecloak (which I severely doubt), Gunshy was the one who targeted Elodin.

Forgive me if I don't trust that information 100% given that it's passed through two players, either of whom could be lying. I'm not saying that the existence of a second Whitecloak is a horrible thing that completely upsets everything I thought I knew. But it does make things just a little bit less certain, and I dislike that.

Nyali redirected Bard but failed because he made no action the same night Padan corrupted someone. Therefore he could not be Padan.

He very well could be Padan Fain, if he were targeted with Mask of Mirrors. Now, is that likely? Perhaps not. But it's not fact that he's confirmed not to be Fain. It's just probable.

Those were just some hypotheticals I presented to emphasize my point, possible explanations for why you would do what you did, each more unlikely than the last.

Yeah, I'm aware. I still wanted to point out that it'd be stupid to assume that, though.

Huh. I just noticed a contradiction.

Thing is, Jaimee is new, isn't she? Really the only brand new player that hasn't accrued any suspicion so far. She's a pretty safe choice, if you ask me, especially when you have players like me running around who always give new players leeway. And I'm pretty sure plenty of players know you well enough to be able to narrow down who those people you'd want to be evil with and, if you were found out, that would effectively doom you, so you'd have to do something unexpected. We discussed something very similar to our PM, only how the fact that I wasn't converted could implicate some players and clear some others, so I know you haven't missed that train of thought.

Lopen got it here. Newness in terms of people I haven't been evil with, not in terms of actual experience. Sorry for not being more clear.

I already converted Joe once. Working with him is great and all, but there are so many people in this game that I'd love to be evil with that I'd practically be spoiled for choice. So I wouldn't pick Joe, unless that was undoubtedly without question the best strategic choice. He is a good choice, sure, but so are several other players. So no. I wouldn't convert him. And it's not necessarily obvious that I wouldn't, so if I were trying to be unpredictable there would be better ways, in my opinion.

That's the thing, though. That's what people expect eliminators to do, so a good Fain would do the exact opposite to make them appear, without a doubt, that their not Fain. Why would Fain should himself in the foot by preaching PM safety? To gain player's trust (which you did for the vast majority). Besides, according to your strategy, you would convert as many people as fast as possible regardless of role, and in particular players you'd want to work with. So why would you want roles? As for the secret roles bit, I feel that was an attempt to cause chaos rather than something really genuine. It can appear on the surface as genuine, kinda like bringing up Day One Lynches, but in truth does more harm than good.

Well, yeah, I can see where you're coming from. And to be honest, I'd probably have done the same thing if I were evil, just because it was what was expected and again a good way of contributing while I traveled. But in my (admittedly biased ) opinion it's not alignment-indicative.

And... just because I would be converting people as fast as possible doesn't mean I wouldn't want roles in order to make my choices as informed as possible. Just because I would want to convert players based on who they are doesn't mean a role wouldn't trump that. Same reason I converted Joe instead of Hael in QF15. Strategy trumps desire. (Sadly.)

With secret roles, I can see where you're coming from. Honestly, as I am right now, I'm not sure I would have brought them up. But at that time, I'd just finished MR14, which was rather strongly concerned with the possibility of secret roles, and I'd just seen the effects that PM spying could have. So that's part of why I brought them up.

The other reason that I stated the possibility so strongly (much more strongly than I actually believed they existed) was to try to get people to be a little bit more cautious about their roleclaims. (Which... obviously didn't work particularly well. >>) PM spying gets people to be a little more careful about what they say in PMs, and I was hoping to be able to use that.

I just feel like I'm tunneling because while there is information capable of being interpreted against you, I feel like I've had my eye on you from the start, and that's the only reason why I'm as suspicious of you as I am right now. The fact that I'm still convinced your Fain or Corrupted in spite of several points in your favor, to me, makes me concerned that I'm chasing the wrong lead.

Hmm. True, you may be tunneling at this point. I actually don't mind that much, though (although I might if it gets me lynched...). Because the difference here is that you don't just go over the same old points. You respond to my defenses and get some actual discussion going. Much better than just "El is evil", end of story. So thanks for that!

...I just remembered that I should probably go to bed early tonight given that I'm taking the ACT tomorrow. May or may not finish that post about what I think of everyone. We'll see what happens. And I still have two more Codex Alera books to finish... Hmm. Priorities, priorities.

Until then, though, questions to the thread that everyone should answer if they have nothing else to say:

What's your opinion on me and the votes on me? What do you think of Aman? What about Meta and the votes on him? Who do you think should be Mayor?

EDIT: Stupid formatting.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Elbereth (Lomion)

[Haelbarde]

(Bah. Got distracted, and now I've got to do other things)

 

Heh. This game has generated 1067 posts as of Day 3. For reference, the most posts in a game so far is LG15, at 1692 replies. The second most drops to 1301 replies, in LG12. So 3 days in, this games already has the 7th largest number of replies in SE history. I think that's pretty awesome.

Okay, now to actually get some stuff done.

 

Thoughts on Fain:

Still working on suspicions on who I think could be Fain, although I’m thinking Elb isn’t (I’d like to think she’d have converted me by now ). I’m willing to wait to see what happens with corruptions over the next few cycles. We’ve gotten stupidly lucky so far. While possible, I’d be highly surprised if we happened to detain Fain by chance. I’d probably be more of a mind to believe Fain just decided not to corrupt someone this cycle. Or that they tried to corrupt Jaimee. Beyond detaining Jaimee every cycle and seeing if there a no more corruptions, not sure what we could do.

 

 

Thoughts on Players:

Mailliw73
Hasn’t had a good idea of Fain works – on the one hand, makes him less likely to be Fain, but on the other, he played the original version of this game. I’d probably lean on him not being Fain though. His other posts have contained advice for the village that I’d agree with. Has put votes on me for Mayor a few times, for some reason. The impression I’ve got from is that he’s village. Has also made a claim that he’s going to be 100% honest. I do have some questions for him regarding that, but they may have to wait till the night.

 

Seonid

Suspicious of Meta D1 due to quick vote on Sart, although backed off after Sart flipped Forsaken. From his other posts, I’m undecided. I’m sorta neutral. He has contributed some good thoughts, but nothing that stands out to me. I’d be surprised if both he and Meta were eliminators though.

 

As far as the rest go, here's my reads off the top of my head:

Elb: Slight village

Aman: Village

TheOnlyNyali: Slight village

Meta: A bit DF

Lopen: Neutral

 

Everyone else, I've not really established an opinion on. 

 

[Mailliw73]

Geez, El, you're quick. I'm just barely on Princeps'.

El, I've been leaning village on you for a while, but I've been having some nagging doubts recently, so I'd say slight village.

Aman, I tend to disagree with a good amount of his posts, but I do lean village on him.

I want Mayor to be shifted. I have my preferences of who it should be: Hael, Joe, Bugsy, then El. But really, I just think we need to keep it moving.