What's with all the Kaladin love?

[Vander]

Reading through these forums, I'm struck by the fact that people basically seem to think that Kal is the protagonist/ uber-hero/ Prophet of the Stormlight Archive. Everywhere you turn, there he is.

 

I mean, I understand fan attachment to him: he's a guy who, against all odds, has risen into power. But, truthfully, I don't understand why everything seems to be Kal-sympathetic. 

 

"Kaladin thinks this, and ____ thinks that, so of course ____ is wrong and needs to have sense beat into him!"

"He's going to become the Champion of Honor, and lead humanity against Odium!"

"He'll do ___, and everyone will love and obey him because he's amazing!"

 

And so on. These are, of course, not actual quotes, but that's the feeling I constantly get when reading posts about him. He's only ONE major character in a whole group of major characters. (Ten, presumably.) 

 

So, why does everyone obsess about him?

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

I personally do not love him. I desire him to trip on his way to the toilet, fall in and drown. But I doubt that will happen.

[Erai Sedai]

2 books have been published so far, so there's only been 2 main character set books so far. Does it surprise you that most people really love one of those 2 characters so much at this stage?
I think things will change in time, but right now, he has been in a lot of the action. So he gets most of the attention without a doubt.

[Voidus]

Because Kaladin viewpoints have Kaladin, Lopen, Teft and Rock.
Most other major viewpoint characters only have other major viewpoint characters in them as far as interesting characters go.

[Edgedancer]

Perspective might also focus on him because he's the only character that gets a big share of viewpoints in all parts of both book, even the one that isn't actually his and as such so far simply had the greatest exposure.

[CthulhuSpren]

Because Syl..............just me?

 

*slowly backs into the mists*

[Kestrel]

Hm well.

Let me just see here.

Because I see Kaladin in me.

Kaladin's hardships are relatable to my own. Now, granted, my own are not violent, grotesque bridgeruns or anything remotely close to what he had to face, but Kaladin's struggles have helped with my own. Here we see a depressed character, someone who felt like they physically couldn't go on in life, stand up and fight through it. I have depression. Sometimes I can't even get out of bed. Sometimes I physically do not have the willpower to even reply to a small text message. There have been a few days where I never came down from my room; I just layed in bed hoping maybe I'd sink into the mattress and/or the void and never leave. I'm just nothing.

Now, I came across Stormlight and started reading. I was instantly hooked with Kaladin. I really do like his character, but I felt like I could connect with him. Here was a wellwritten depressed character who stood up and actually made a difference for himself and others! His depression didn't limit him. He managed to overcome it, even backing away from throwing himself off that chasm.

I really have no idea how to write this into words, but that's why I love Kaladin.

That's just my two cents.

[Titan Arum]

Lark, you hit the nail on the head for me. Kaladin just feels like a real character. As a result he's super relatable.

 

His depression is real. His manic periods are real and thoroughly enjoyable because you feel like he deserves happiness some of the time. And then, as you say, his depression doesn't limit him. He owns it and accepts it as a part of who is but take a step forward because there is something more in life than just himself: everyone else he cares about. 

 

Oh, and Voidus/Ookla the spikey is correct: he gives us The Lopen and Rock! What amazingly fun characters who are basically his new Tiens.

[Purelake Earthquake]

The thing to remember is that the flashback character of a book isn't the same as the main character of a book. Sanderson's even said that it's possible for a character to be dead in their flashback book.  

 

If we look at whose got the most screen time so far, the first four major characters are Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, then Adolin (who I don't think is getting a flashback book ever).  They have 292k, 213k, 117k, and 51k words.  That's a fairly significant gap between each character.

 

So, why do people focus on Kaladin?  It's because Sanderson put the focus there first.  I'd say that Kaldain is the main character of the series so far, probably for the duration first five book arc.  He could get killed off or phased out soon, but it looks like he still has a lot of character arc left to go on.

 

Look at how it's split up in each book.  In WoK, Kaladin's book, he is far and away the focus of the story, with almost twice as much screen time as the second most common character, Dalinar.  Then Shallan get's about 75% as much screen time as Dalinar.  Her viewpooints are really like a side-story that doesn't interact with the main plot in the shattered plains.

 

Then in WoR when it's Shallan's turn, she has to split the focus with Kaladin.  She just barely gets more than Kaladin.  Without her flashbacks the difference was basically negligible.  Then Dalinar just pops in enough so we don't forget about him.

 

In fact out of the ten parts from both books Kaladin's the only character who's been in each and every one.

 

While there is a large cast of characters who all get large amounts of screen time Kaladin still stands out as the most major character.  A story like this one, I think, just wouldn't work without someone who can be a clear protagonist.  It's not like Mistborn where it seemed like Vin got almost every viewpoint, but he clearly gets more than anybody else.

 

Plus, there's an idea in storytelling that you introduce things in order of importance.  Kaladin got to be the main focus of the first book, so people are going to naturally expect more from him in the future. 

 

 

Tl:dr Kaladin is the main character of this arc.

 

 

 

Numbers from here: http://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Stormlight_Archive/Statistical_analysis

[mirahound]

Kaladin also has the most on-screen character development (I kinda think Dalinar has the most, but we haven't gone through it with him, so it doesn't hit us as much). We watch Kaladin go from a lonely kid to an impassioned teen to a determined soldier to a broken slave, all just in his flashbacks. In the main story we then see him progress from broken slave to hopeful bridgeman to bitter captain to forgiving Knight Radiant. We've watched him grow from every single hardship, and that, to me, is incredibly powerful, because it gives hope that things will get better if you can hold on just a little longer.

[nerdgir1]

The thing to remember is that the flashback character of a book isn't the same as the main character of a book. Sanderson's even said that it's possible for a character to be dead in their flashback book.  

 

If we look at whose got the most screen time so far, the first four major characters are Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, then Adolin (who I don't think is getting a flashback book ever).  They have 292k, 213k, 117k, and 51k words.  That's a fairly significant gap between each character.

 

So, why do people focus on Kaladin?  It's because Sanderson put the focus there first.  I'd say that Kaldain is the main character of the series so far, probably for the duration first five book arc.  He could get killed off or phased out soon, but it looks like he still has a lot of character arc left to go on.

 

Look at how it's split up in each book.  In WoK, Kaladin's book, he is far and away the focus of the story, with almost twice as much screen time as the second most common character, Dalinar.  Then Shallan get's about 75% as much screen time as Dalinar.  Her viewpooints are really like a side-story that doesn't interact with the main plot in the shattered plains.

 

Then in WoR when it's Shallan's turn, she has to split the focus with Kaladin.  She just barely gets more than Kaladin.  Without her flashbacks the difference was basically negligible.  Then Dalinar just pops in enough so we don't forget about him.

 

In fact out of the ten parts from both books Kaladin's the only character who's been in each and every one.

 

While there is a large cast of characters who all get large amounts of screen time Kaladin still stands out as the most major character.  A story like this one, I think, just wouldn't work without someone who can be a clear protagonist.  It's not like Mistborn where it seemed like Vin got almost every viewpoint, but he clearly gets more than anybody else.

 

Plus, there's an idea in storytelling that you introduce things in order of importance.  Kaladin got to be the main focus of the first book, so people are going to naturally expect more from him in the future. 

 

 

Tl:dr Kaladin is the main character of this arc.

 

 

 

Numbers from here: http://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Stormlight_Archive/Statistical_analysis

 

I think you made a lot of really good points here. Kaladin just feels like the natural protagonist at this point -- although I personally hope Shallan's story will get a little more "screen-time" in the coming books and/or that she'll become more of a main protagonist as her character grows and develops.

[DreamEternal]

but it looks like he still has a lot of character arc left to go on.

I would disagree with this part, since I think his arc is nearing its closing point. He is somewhat short on personal issues and conflicts currently, only having the reunion with his parents to call personal right now. The bridgemen are as safe as a soldier could be, he assumed his role as a Radiant, now the he only needs to go back to where it all started to bring closure to his current arc.

Yes, there will still be the visit to Kholinar and the True Desolation to deal with, but those aren't as personal, and while some characters like Dalinar can make any duty feel personal from their PoV, Kalading just can't. I am not saying we will stop seeing his PoV, but that he will stop stealing space some characters *cough*Adolin*cough*Szeth*cough* need and didn't get.

EDIT: Saying this as someone who likes Kaladin, but just thinks this series can work better by cycling out characters who finished their arc in order to give others the spotlight. After all, the world is litteraly ending, and that means the lifes and stories of many should center on a few central events, not that many important events should orbit the lifes of a few.

Edited November 25, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[maxal]

Why is Kaladin so well loved?

 

I believe previous posters have given good answers: currently, he is the only main protagonist. His struggles have occupied the main part of two books, all other characters paling in comparison. Even in the book supposed to focus on Shallan, we ended with a main story arc largely focus on him. Whenever he is around, we get to see the world from his POV: we rarely get third character POV on him. 

 

He has also been given the most dramatic story arc: the beaten under-dog who rises to the occasion. He is fighter which allows him to be at the center of every action scenes, unlike Shallan whom was peripheral to the main denouement in her own focus book. Kaladin is also the character who triumph against the "bad guys" while maintaining his honor code. He also gets beaten down, flogged and practically killed just so his later success may feel more powerful.

 

All in all, the Stormlight Archive have been currently written in a very Kaladin centrism fashion. Whenever he is included in an action scene: it is his POV we get. Whenever something happens to him, even if insignificant, we get significant development. Other characters do not get such "Princeling" treatment.

 

It is therefore not surprising Kaladin is the favored character and is often cited as the "one to defeat Odium", the "one to become Honor's champion", the "one to do XYZ" because currently, he is the one doing practically everything. I however think things will not remain the same for all books. Epic fantasy typically calls for a larger cast than one character and Brandon has indicated his intention to develop his other characters. There are quite a few who are immensely interesting and are currently in dire need for more development, more POV time and more actions. I thus agree with CognitivePulse when he says Kaladin's story arcs to nearing to an end. I tend to agree as I can't fathom what more additional struggles Brandon could invent to keep it going. He, of course, can always think of "something else", but there is danger in over-powering and over-developing one single character in a multi-books series. I personally believe the series would be stronger if it relies on a cast of several strong well rounded characters as opposed to only one. I thus hope Brandon will lessen Kaladin's page time in book 3 in order to further work on other characters.

 

As for the fandom general opinion, I'd say it vary widely on the time frame where you come in reading and where you go on reading. It is true Kaladin comes out as a well loved character, but he also is a character who gets on the nerves of many readers: not everyone agrees with his character path and there is a significant number of readers who are just tired of him. Other characters are also getting their share of love and attention. I do not think there is a Kaladin obsession or I have not found one yet. I rarely read long throughout post defending or promoting Kaladin as a character, either because he does not need such or because no one is interested in writing them.

[Vander]

2 books have been published so far, so there's only been 2 main character set books so far. Does it surprise you that most people really love one of those 2 characters so much at this stage?

I think things will change in time, but right now, he has been in a lot of the action. So he gets most of the attention without a doubt.

Actually,  my point was to ask why people aren't considering what you said when they say Kal will be the main main character.

 

Because Kaladin viewpoints have Kaladin, Lopen, Teft and Rock.

Most other major viewpoint characters only have other major viewpoint characters in them as far as interesting characters go.

Hmm... I hadn't thought of that. Good point.

 

The thing to remember is that the flashback character of a book isn't the same as the main character of a book. Sanderson's even said that it's possible for a character to be dead in their flashback book.  

 

If we look at whose got the most screen time so far, the first four major characters are Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, then Adolin (who I don't think is getting a flashback book ever).  They have 292k, 213k, 117k, and 51k words.  That's a fairly significant gap between each character.

 

So, why do people focus on Kaladin?  It's because Sanderson put the focus there first.  I'd say that Kaldain is the main character of the series so far, probably for the duration first five book arc.  He could get killed off or phased out soon, but it looks like he still has a lot of character arc left to go on.

 

Look at how it's split up in each book.  In WoK, Kaladin's book, he is far and away the focus of the story, with almost twice as much screen time as the second most common character, Dalinar.  Then Shallan get's about 75% as much screen time as Dalinar.  Her viewpooints are really like a side-story that doesn't interact with the main plot in the shattered plains.

 

Then in WoR when it's Shallan's turn, she has to split the focus with Kaladin.  She just barely gets more than Kaladin.  Without her flashbacks the difference was basically negligible.  Then Dalinar just pops in enough so we don't forget about him.

 

In fact out of the ten parts from both books Kaladin's the only character who's been in each and every one.

 

While there is a large cast of characters who all get large amounts of screen time Kaladin still stands out as the most major character.  A story like this one, I think, just wouldn't work without someone who can be a clear protagonist.  It's not like Mistborn where it seemed like Vin got almost every viewpoint, but he clearly gets more than anybody else.

 

Plus, there's an idea in storytelling that you introduce things in order of importance.  Kaladin got to be the main focus of the first book, so people are going to naturally expect more from him in the future. 

 

 

Tl:dr Kaladin is the main character of this arc.

 

 

 

Numbers from here: http://coppermind.net/wiki/The_Stormlight_Archive/Statistical_analysis

Well, in that case... I hope that changes soon; his backstory, and even his "rise", was fun to read, but I can see him becoming boring very quickly.

 

Because Syl..............just me?

 

*slowly backs into the mists*

Not just you. Syl, right?

[Vander]

Hm well.

Let me just see here.

Because I see Kaladin in me.

Kaladin's hardships are relatable to my own. Now, granted, my own are not violent, grotesque bridgeruns or anything remotely close to what he had to face, but Kaladin's struggles have helped with my own. Here we see a depressed character, someone who felt like they physically couldn't go on in life, stand up and fight through it. I have depression. Sometimes I can't even get out of bed. Sometimes I physically do not have the willpower to even reply to a small text message. There have been a few days where I never came down from my room; I just layed in bed hoping maybe I'd sink into the mattress and/or the void and never leave. I'm just nothing.

Now, I came across Stormlight and started reading. I was instantly hooked with Kaladin. I really do like his character, but I felt like I could connect with him. Here was a wellwritten depressed character who stood up and actually made a difference for himself and others! His depression didn't limit him. He managed to overcome it, even backing away from throwing himself off that chasm.

I really have no idea how to write this into words, but that's why I love Kaladin.

That's just my two cents.

On my first read-through of the replies, I TLDR'd this for no reason at all. That was a huge mistake: You've made a heck of a  good analysis of a possible reason he is so well liked. 

Edited November 28, 2015 by Vander Honorsworn

[Stormgate]

I believe this is one reason we love Sanderson's stories: his characters are real. They have flaws, struggles, etc., and the characters are shaped by them, but not limited by them.

[Vander]

I believe this is one reason we love Sanderson's stories: his characters are real. They have flaws, struggles, etc., and the characters are shaped by them, but not limited by them.

Perhaps so. Loving your signature, by the way.

[N006+ard4life]

I personally do not love him. I desire him to trip on his way to the toilet, fall in and drown. But I doubt that will happen.

HAHAHA!!!  I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.  I liked him in the first book but wasn't overly attached to him, then he got all moody and emo in the second and I just couldn't stand him any more.

[Aminar]

Because Kal and Syl is great. Because he's an interesting character. And because Spears are the best weapons. Especially that last one. But also his abilities are cool.

He's also kind of an eyeist jerk though.

[Stormgate]

Keep in mind, his brother was killed, in a way, by two lighteyes, (Roshone and Amaram), Amaram stole his Shards and killed his squad, then sold him into slavery. Then, he gets used as a meat shield for Sadeas' troops while carrying a massive bridge. I'd say he's doing rather well, all things considered.

[Mistrunner]

Hm well.

Let me just see here.

Because I see Kaladin in me.

Kaladin's hardships are relatable to my own. Now, granted, my own are not violent, grotesque bridgeruns or anything remotely close to what he had to face, but Kaladin's struggles have helped with my own. Here we see a depressed character, someone who felt like they physically couldn't go on in life, stand up and fight through it. I have depression. Sometimes I can't even get out of bed. Sometimes I physically do not have the willpower to even reply to a small text message. There have been a few days where I never came down from my room; I just layed in bed hoping maybe I'd sink into the mattress and/or the void and never leave. I'm just nothing.

Now, I came across Stormlight and started reading. I was instantly hooked with Kaladin. I really do like his character, but I felt like I could connect with him. Here was a wellwritten depressed character who stood up and actually made a difference for himself and others! His depression didn't limit him. He managed to overcome it, even backing away from throwing himself off that chasm.

I really have no idea how to write this into words, but that's why I love Kaladin.

That's just my two cents.

I would give this a thousand upvotes.

You explained it perfectly.

[DreamEternal]

True, it is rare to find a well written depressed character, especially one with a natural tendency towards depression, which can be felt even before all goes to Braize for him, and after things get better.

For some of us, even when depression doens't take hold of us it still hangs as a shadow, like a thin layer of cold water above the ground always flowing against us, making it harder to move. It is like your happiness fades faster, and when you look at tomorrow you only see failure, so why care? It will go wrong anyway.

Edited December 7, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern

[DSC01]

Also, it is generally bad form to fail to acknowledge power dynamics in race relations. One should not fault an oppressed class for harboring negative opinions of the class that is oppressing them. For example, if a slave in America in the 19th century expressed dislike for white people, it would be inappropriate to say, "Wow, what a racist." Sure, that would technically be racist, but it's not at all the same as the guy in charge of beating him saying that them folk ain't good for nothing but whuppin'. Which is not to say that one should therefore let it slide if a darkeyes goes all, "Kill every lighteyes!" on you.

[Relytdragon]

Because he has a humility, he blames himself for every single death that happens in one of his squads, and is constantly trying to be better.  besides, he is the one who beat Szeth, And is one of the first characters you meet, we have known him before Shallan, before the Highlord, only 2 other veiwpoint characters are met before him, Szeth, and one who introduces Kal but dies.  

[Patrick Star]

Kaladin's arc isn't over yet.

We still have Vasher and Nightblood, Nalan and Szeth, Moash, and Tara in play.

He'll last for at least the next couple of books, I think.

Edit: Forgot to mention Amaram, the Ghostbloods, and Helaran.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Patrick Star