Gloom Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think the appropriate question for Brandon would be 'Can a Shard invested on Roshar see Stormlight'. The answer to that question would be telling. After some serious consideration, I'm going to agree that Stormlight is fuel. I'm going to propose that spren are actually the gateway. On Scadrial, investiture is inherited. An imbalance of forces within the Allomancer is what allows them to access the power of their Shards, while metal triggers and enables the magic. On Roshar, no such mechanism exists. The people of Roshar appear to be investiture neutral. It is only when a person bonds with a spren that they can gain access to the magic of their Shards. This isn't like snapping because a spren isn't actually a natural part of the Surgebinder. We have reason to believe a potential Surgebinder can even reject a spren. So spren are more than just the Roshar equivalent of snapping, they are an active gateway that can facilitate Surgebinding through the Surgebinder. Remove the spren (gateway) and the Surgebinder becomes a normal person again. But Stormlight is more than just fuel. Stormlight is the trigger as well. A Surgebinder can't Surgebind without Stormlight, and he can only Surgebind while he has Stormlight to burn. This is exactly what happens with metals on Scadrial. Once the metal is gone, the Allomancer can no longer use the magic of Allomancy unless they get more metal. Since this is Lifts topic, the same principle applies to her with some differences. Because Lift relies on food for investiture, she can potentially access her Awesomeness at any time provided she has eaten. Her trigger is internal and her gateway is always active. The drawbacks that she faces are different from those of other Surgebinders. A regular Surgebinder can go through pouches full of gems provided the Surgebinder has access to them, Lift is limited to her internal reserves. Restoring her internal reserves is slower than absorbing Stormlight, but she doesn't have to depend on an external trigger or fuel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I think the appropriate question for Brandon would be 'Can a Shard invested on Roshar see Stormlight'. The answer to that question would be telling. Probably not the best question for your purposes. I you asked that same question with metal in place of stormlight and Scadrial instead of Roshar, Brandon would likely answer simply, yes. Ruin and Preservation could see metal, it was just very, very, very bright to them and blinded them to its surroundings. You'll have to rework that question to get a useful answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterodent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Just to clarify, is Lift using food on Roshar in the same way metal is used on Scadrial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Just to clarify, is Lift using food on Roshar in the same way metal is used on Scadrial? According to Wyndle, she's turning it directly into stormlight, so it seems not. Metal is used to key for power on Scadrial, while it seems that Lift is just turning food into stormlight directly, without any intervening step to get power from a 3rd party. So no, it doesn't seem that she is. Edited October 31, 2013 by Kurkistan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kersplattle Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 It occurred to me while reading the excerpt, that Lift doesn't *have* to climb walls using Wyndle, rather that is her way (inexperienced as she is) of visualizing or otherwise manifesting her talent with friction. Just as she can reduce friction to slide, she can increase it to grip. Thus she should be able to climb as she does by making her hands & feet have a very high friction coefficient so they don't slip. So maybe her ability to touch/use Wyndle is more apparent than real ? Though she is obviously a "talented" individual and maybe she can as well, my point is more that she shouldn't *need* to do so to climb as she does. As a second "theory", there's something happening at this time in the history of Roshar that all these prot-Radiants are being created. Unless there have always been some around with creatures like Nalan winnowing them back ? There's some possibility that a few always occur and that's what Nalan does, remove them. But there are simply too many occurring now. Can you imagine him trying to execute Jasnah, legally ? So what "force" is it producing this latest crop of potential KR's ? Simply the oncoming desolation maybe, but how does that work ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I think that consensus is that Gavilar did something, that resulted in the dying speaking prophecies, so why not leading also to an increase in spren bonding activity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 No, Lift can touch Wyndle - the spren remarks on it as well. Though I agree that as she gets better, she probably won't need him for climbing, not in the crude way she is using him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kersplattle Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Argent, yes, you're correct, Wyndle does remark upon it so it's not just her vizualizing it. However it doesn't seem to require any effort on his behalf to provide the handholds for Lift, whereas we know that Syl found it very hard to lift even a few leaves for Kaladin. So maybe she is touching him but he isn't actually supporting her but directing her friction wielding abilities. Probably not a distinction worth worrying about ! And Marianmi, that sounds like a tenable hypothesis, and I guess in time we'll find out what he actually did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 />According to Wyndle, she's turning it directly into stormlight, so it seems not. Metal is used to key for power on Scadrial, while it seems that Lift is just turning food into stormlight directly, without any intervening step to get power from a 3rd party. So no, it doesn't seem that she is. But Winydle says he doesnt knwo what is happening so she COULD BE doing the allomancy burn something to make a gate tecnique and pulling in stomrlight from the gate and it would be looking the same from outside 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 What are the chances that the only thing she asked of The Nightwatcher was "I want to be awesome" ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Maybe she asked the NightWatcher to get more out of her food? Being a starving child, hoping to not be hungry as often, but Cultivation was just like, "Nah, you're awesome now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 We should keep in mind that Wyndle was not part of her agreement with the Nightwatcher. Until she trapped her voidbringer she didn't have her awesomeness. So What she asked for doesn't necessarily correspond with her ability to Surgebind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 We should keep in mind that Wyndle was not part of her agreement with the Nightwatcher. Until she trapped her voidbringer she didn't have her awesomeness. So What she asked for doesn't necessarily correspond with her ability to Surgebind. Yes. But I do believe WoB has been that Cultivation is better at seeing the future than the other Shards on the planet. So it is possible she knew ahead of time that The Ring would choose Lift as a a potential Radiant. Just my baseless speculation, though, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Not WoB, WoH (Word of Honor). Honor states that Cultivation was better at seeing the future than he. I don't know of anything regarding Odium's ability with future sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 Fair enough. But there is still a possibility that Cultivation had enough foresight to see that Lift needed these abilities. Although I now think that here question was something entirely different. Either way, we know Cultivation made Lift somehow semi-exist in the cognitive realm. So that's one hell of a boon. Or maybe it's the curse? We'll need to read more Lift to determine which it is exactly. Because we've certainly seen one, but not the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 This might be a moot point, but I am not sure if the Shards' ability to see the future is as specific as you make it seem. It feels too... I don't know, specific. Considering their nature, I would imagine they see the "big picture" when they look into the future, not specific details of individuals' lives. This is, of course, just a feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahak Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 I seriously, seriously doubt that the second ideal of the Lightweavers is "I murdered my father". I completely reject that the ideals are individually determined. I don't think Shallan's got as far as the First ideal yet. Her telling the Cryptics secrets strikes me as similar to Kaladin attracting Syl 's attention. "I will speak the truth unspoken." seems like a candidate for the Lightweaver's second ideal. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 It has a nice ring to it. And I agree, speaking a truth seems like a prerequisite for (Lightweaver-specific?) Soulcasting, not an Ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) I don't think Shallan's got as far as the First ideal yet. Her telling the Cryptics secrets strikes me as similar to Kaladin attracting Syl 's attention. "I will speak the truth unspoken." seems like a candidate for the Lightweaver's second ideal. Upvote for something that looks like a good second ideal. (maybe "truths unspoken?") Def Shallan is level -1 no ideals spoken yet. I would bet Jasnah too. That "you go to shadesmar with only one dun sphere" talk looks to me like she needs lots of stormlight Edited November 4, 2013 by marianmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted November 4, 2013 Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 Windrunners' and Edgedancers' Second Ideals come from their first divine attributes, protecting and loving. It doesn't mean that's true for all orders but I find it likely that would be the case. Maybe that could be one of the other Ideals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 what I wonder is if the the ability to produce investiture from food and being part in the cognitive realm are connected or separate what I mean is if Shallan took a sandwich with her to shadesmar would she be able to use it to fuel her light weaving. the whole question reminded me very much of the interlude with the two ardents on the island Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 I seriously, seriously doubt that the second ideal of the Lightweavers is "I murdered my father". LOL! 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Does anyone else find it strange that Peter laughing got more upvotes than the comment he found funny? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marianmi Posted November 11, 2013 Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 Does anyone else find it strange that Peter laughing got more upvotes than the comment he found funny? Yes I upvoted the original comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mailliw73 Posted November 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2013 But it's Peter, so basically anything he says gets upvoted. Brandon is the only other one who just basically automatically gets upvotes. If either of them came on and posted Hi, it would get at least 3 upvotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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