Fantasy Pet Peeve Discussion Thread

[Mistrunner]

Okay, so this is my problem.

I am a fan of the new marvel movies, where its all in the same universe and interconnected (kinda like Cosmere actually). So I think, maybe I'll like the comics too, who knows. My dad gets me a marvel encyclopedia from the library, that shows all the characters and there back stories. I look through it and EVERY SINGLE GIRL SUPER HERO IS PRACTICALLY NAKED. I mean seriously, no No NO NOO. I can understand having clothing kind of tight, so that it doesn't get in the way. But wearing a bikini or a suit so tight that she might as well be wearing nothing? It's portraying women in ways I am certainly NOT okay with. They're just there for eye candy at this point.

YESYESYESYES SO MUCH YES

It's seriously just awful! And imagine trying to fight in that. What if it gets cold out? You're basically wearing a bikini! Put on a sweatshirt or something. At least wear some pants. And there is no protection from injury. If you're gonna be shot at, why not have a bulletproof vest?

[Dunkum he/him]

When at the start of the series, the 'evil' side's basic infantry unit is made out to be much more big and scary than it actually is. Star Wars is the most commonly pointed out, with Stormtroopers that 'never miss', except for... every single time, but Trollocs (Wheel of Time), Orcs (LotR, Inheritance Cycle, bunch of other stuff), Goblins (Hobbit, LotR, bunch of other stuff) and loads of other creatures follow this pattern as well. While I understand that this is part of 'character development', showing that they have grown better than that creature, but it seems slightly unrealistic to have a major fight sequence with one Orc at the beginning, to then have an entire batallion attack the same character at the end of that book and prove only a mild inconvenience.

Its been a while since I read LOTR, but I seem to recall Orcs mostly being a challenge for the Hobbits.  everyone else has been fighting them their whole lives.  so when the fellowship is one man, and a bunch of hobbits with no training whatsoever, Orcs are hard.  when there are allies who actually know what they are doing, it gets easier.

[king of nowhere]

When at the start of the series, the 'evil' side's basic infantry unit is made out to be much more big and scary than it actually is. Star Wars is the most commonly pointed out, with Stormtroopers that 'never miss', except for... every single time, but Trollocs (Wheel of Time), Orcs (LotR, Inheritance Cycle, bunch of other stuff), Goblins (Hobbit, LotR, bunch of other stuff) and loads of other creatures follow this pattern as well. While I understand that this is part of 'character development', showing that they have grown better than that creature, but it seems slightly unrealistic to have a major fight sequence with one Orc at the beginning, to then have an entire batallion attack the same character at the end of that book and prove only a mild inconvenience.

welll, that makes sense as the characters get levels and levels in badass. especially in world where there is magic, so if characters are learning tto use magic it makes actual sense that they become able to dispatch battallions of mooks single-handedly.

 

that begs the question, however: why the dark lord didn't send a battallion first, instead of sending a single mook when the hero is weak and then sending progressively more and more as the hero gets stronger?

[Frosted Flakes]

Okay, so this is my problem.

I am a fan of the new marvel movies, where its all in the same universe and interconnected (kinda like Cosmere actually). So I think, maybe I'll like the comics too, who knows. My dad gets me a marvel encyclopedia from the library, that shows all the characters and there back stories. I look through it and EVERY SINGLE GIRL SUPER HERO IS PRACTICALLY NAKED. I mean seriously, no No NO NOO. I can understand having clothing kind of tight, so that it doesn't get in the way. But wearing a bikini or a suit so tight that she might as well be wearing nothing? It's portraying women in ways I am certainly NOT okay with. They're just there for eye candy at this point.

I've never understood people's problem with this. Most male superheroes are super muscular and wear very tight-fitting, impractical clothing. This is to distinguish them from the common man. The male super hero wears clothing to better depict how strong he is. Male super heroes are the masculine ideal; physically fit to the point of perfection, tall, intelligent, etc and they wear uniforms that accentuate that.

The same thing goes for female super heroes. They are, physically at least, the feminine ideal: toned, lithe bodies, perfect proportions, large breasts - and they wear clothing to accentuate that fact.

People always complain about female super heroes, but I just can't understand the double standard. What's wrong with a female super hero that dresses proactively? That's what people want to see. And it isn't a male vs female issue at all, it's just the difference between super heroes and regular people.

I mean, how successful would Superman be if he was short, balding, had bad teeth and bifocals, had a flabby body with a big belly, and wore frumpy clothing? No one wants to see that, just like no one wants to see a Wonder Woman who's 70 lbs overweight, is chugging a XXL Starbucks Latte with like 1,300 calories from sugar alone, had a short, pixie cut, and wears loose fitting, mens clothing.

Which brings me to MY pet peeve in fantasy - Social Justice Warriors are ruining comics. Rather than creating their OWN superheroes, they complain and use incendiary language like "racist" or "transphobic" or "misogynist" until publishes cave to the pressures and change long established heroes. Thor is a woman now. Spiderman is Latino and gay. Captain America is black.

Why do these social minorities get to scream at the top of their lungs and get their way? If they want to see themselves represented somewhere, fine. Literally no one objects to that. But create your own unique stories rather than subverting the already popular ones.

Edited September 23, 2015 by little wilson
language

[Voidus]

I've never understood people's problem with this. Most male superheroes are super muscular and wear very tight-fitting, impractical clothing. This is to distinguish them from the common man. The male super hero wears clothing to better depict how strong he is. Male super heroes are the masculine ideal; physically fit to the point of perfection, tall, intelligent, etc and they wear uniforms that accentuate that.

The same thing goes for female super heroes. They are, physically at least, the feminine ideal: toned, lithe bodies, perfect proportions, large breasts - and they wear clothing to accentuate that fact.

People always complain about female super heroes, but I just can't understand the double standard. What's wrong with a female super hero that dresses proactively? That's what people want to see. And it isn't a male vs female issue at all, it's just the difference between super heroes and regular people.

I mean, how successful would Superman be if he was short, balding, had bad teeth and bifocals, had a flabby body with a big belly, and wore frumpy clothing? No one wants to see that, just like no one wants to see a Wonder Woman who's 70 lbs overweight, is chugging a XXL Starbucks Latte with like 1,300 calories from sugar alone, had a short, pixie cut, and wears loose fitting, mens clothing.

Which brings me to MY pet peeve in fantasy - Social Justice Warriors are ruining comics. Rather than creating their OWN superheroes, they complain and use incendiary language like "racist" or "transphobic" or "misogynist" until publishes cave to the pressures and change long established heroes. Thor is a woman now. Spiderman is Latino and gay. Captain America is black.

Why do these social minorities get to scream at the top of their lungs and get their way? If they want to see themselves represented somewhere, fine. Literally no one objects to that. But create your own unique stories rather than subverting the already popular ones.

I would love to see a short balding superman just for comedies sake

[Frosted Flakes]

@Voidus

You're on to something, I think. They've done series of superheroes in their teens - why not mid-life crisis superheroes haha?

[Adamir he/him]

To give a simple counter-argument to the double-standard you pointed out,

 

Women are objectified. Men are idealized.

 

Despite the fact that most mediums have an even split in genders, many producers prioritize the male audience since they are the audience that most people perceive when they think of that medium; video games, comic books and comic book films could serve as three examples. As the argument goes, men are objectified by giving them huge muscles, bravery, impulsiveness and having them stride through all opposition like a colossal testosterone-powered juggernaut. But let me ask you this - who is this objectification done for, if the creators don't even consider that women partake in these mediums? Because they are certainly not objectifying men for the sake of women.

 

Men are not objectified - they are idealized. Thor is everything you want to be, powerful and capable, and you don't see him flying around in a jockstrap to give female audiences a better view. The average female superhero, on the other hand, might have those capacities, but those are not the capacities highlighted by their choice of outfit. The capacities highlighted are breasts, skin, lips, and shape, all of whom are generally flawless and better than most women could hope to achieve with surgery, never mind what most women actually have. While, as a Y-chromosome-built ape, I cannot speak for women, I doubt those are the traits the other half of the planet idealizes. They are not the feminine ideal, they are men's ideal for what men want women to be.

 

Objectification means reducing your perception of a given person to an object of desire to be possessed. Women are objectified by making them the targets of sexual desire while stripping them of any agency. Its a rare occurrence when a female character isn't put in just to act as motivation for the male lead. Male characters are tall, muscular, brave and heroic. And most importantly, they are not things that the male viewer wants to own, like female characters. The ideals they represent are what draws the male viewer, but they themselves do not in the same way that female characters are meant to. Women in comic book movies are what men want to own, men in comic book movies are what men want to be.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Adamir

[Frosted Flakes]

Adamir, why did you refer to yourself as a "Y-Chromosome built ape"? How am I supposed to take anything you just wrote seriously if you don't even have basic self respect? What kind of man timidly debases himself as a matter of course? As if men as a sex are guilty of some great sin and should be ashamed? Snap out of it, man.

Literally everything you said about men wanting to possess women is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Women themselves would rather be tall, statuesque, beautiful and big-boobed than short, fat, and strangely shaped. Those female super hero bodies are the ideal feminine shape. Ideal as in, almost unattainable in their perfection.

Just like the male superheroes.

The world is not out the oppress women, dude. I think you're inventing persecution where persecution does not exist.

And is there something intrinsically wrong with men finding a youthful, fit, gorgeous woman full of feminine vitality attractive? Is there someone intrinsically wrong with women wanting to be attractive?

Did you even read my post?

No one is "objectifying" women. They're idealizing them. No one is robbing women of their agency or any stupid crap like that. Women aren't being systematically oppressed by an evil patriarchy.

[The Honor Spren she/her]

I've never understood people's problem with this. Most male superheroes are super muscular and wear very tight-fitting, impractical clothing. This is to distinguish them from the common man. The male super hero wears clothing to better depict how strong he is. Male super heroes are the masculine ideal; physically fit to the point of perfection, tall, intelligent, etc and they wear uniforms that accentuate that.

The same thing goes for female super heroes. They are, physically at least, the feminine ideal: toned, lithe bodies, perfect proportions, large breasts - and they wear clothing to accentuate that fact.

People always complain about female super heroes, but I just can't understand the double standard. What's wrong with a female super hero that dresses proactively? That's what people want to see. And it isn't a male vs female issue at all, it's just the difference between super heroes and regular people.

I mean, how successful would Superman be if he was short, balding, had bad teeth and bifocals, had a flabby body with a big belly, and wore frumpy clothing? No one wants to see that, just like no one wants to see a Wonder Woman who's 70 lbs overweight, is chugging a XXL Starbucks Latte with like 1,300 calories from sugar alone, had a short, pixie cut, and wears loose fitting, mens clothing.

Which brings me to MY pet peeve in fantasy - Social Justice Warriors are ruining comics. Rather than creating their OWN superheroes, they complain and use incendiary language like "racist" or "transphobic" or "misogynist" until publishes cave to the pressures and change long established heroes. Thor is a woman now. Spiderman is Latino and gay. Captain America is black.

Why do these social minorities get to scream at the top of their lungs and get their way? If they want to see themselves represented somewhere, fine. Literally no one objects to that. But create your own unique stories rather than subverting the already popular ones.

. . . I will just say that was rather insulting, and leave it at that. I'm just saying that I wanted to get in on a cool looking, crime fighting fandom, and all the ladies are wearing bikinis. There was no need to call me a she-dog.

[+Slowswift]

@Frosted Flakes: Have you ever heard of the Hawkeye Initiative?

[Mestiv he/him]

@Frosted Flakes: Have you ever heard of the Hawkeye Initiative?

 

Well, I didn't hear about it, but after a quick google search and a lot of laugh, an upvote for you is not enough

[Adamir he/him]

@Frosted Flakes: Have you ever heard of the Hawkeye Initiative?

 

AAAAAAH! MY EYES! OH GOD, I THINK I'VE GONE BLIND!

 

Adamir, why did you refer to yourself as a "Y-Chromosome built ape"? How am I supposed to take anything you just wrote seriously if you don't even have basic self respect? What kind of man timidly debases himself as a matter of course? As if men as a sex are guilty of some great sin and should be ashamed? Snap out of it, man.

 

I'm not going to dignify that with a full response...

 

EDIT: Also, to be clear, I agree with you on one point - that arbitrary character changes to latch on to social trends are pointless and insulting to everyone involved. The only reason Marvel changed Thor's gender was to latch on to the idea of strong female characters and to get publicity from gender equality activists, rather than any artistic purpose with any vision in mind.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Adamir

[king of nowhere]

I think both sides have a point here.

The way women superheroes are idealized is definitely more fanservice-oriented. But then, we have to keep in mind that those characters were invented some 40 or 50 years ago, when the standards of society were different from now. And yes, the idea that a woman's worth comes from her capacity to attract men rather than by anything she might achieve on her own was stronger at the time. I'm not sure how far emancipation had progressed by then.

 

But that doesn't make it wrong to have beautiful and scantily-clad women.

 

Don't get me wrong: I also am annoyed by it; I wouldn't object to a single heroine being dressed like that, but it's far too widespread to be realistic. Especially when they do battle in those awfully impractical outfits. Heck, in league of legends over half the female champions are fighting in high heels. It's just silly and unrealistic.

Also don't get me wrong on a different count: I am not a prude. Far from it. Not only I fully support anything done between mature consensual individuals, but in the specific case of clothing I think beautiful people should be proud of how they look and take pleasure at displaying it. I'd do it myself, if I had any capability to judge male beauty and see if I can qualify. Certainly, if I thought dressing less would make girls around me happy, I'd do it. Just for the sake of making other people happy. I don't understand all those pseudo-feministic (calling it like that to distinguish it from the actually meaningful feministic claims) ideas that if a girl is doing something to please men she is a horrible betrayer of her gender, like if men were an enemy.

 

What I don't like is that it is done for fanservice, or with other purposes in general. Because, let's be honest, the people drawing those comics are putting semi-naked women in it to cater to male readers. That's the part I don't like. That they are trying to cheat me by selling me a story with fanservice. Plus, the story get sacrificed to a marketing ploy, and I find it deeply annoying. To put it bluntly, when I want to see beautiful naked girls I watch porn (or erotic non-nude modeling if I only want them semi-naked). If I am instead reading a comic, it means that I don't want to see semi-naked girls right now, so please don't put them in it. 

In the same way, I like a girl that dress sexy because she likes to be looked at or to receive attention, but I dislike a girl doing the same because she wants to ask favors. And I respect a prostitute as a person who does a job, but dislike a  woman trying to indirectly use her beauty to coax money, for example by getting men to offer her drinks or dinners. Basically, it's the trickery part that I dislike.

 

Anyway, I still don't see anything wrong with scantily-clad beautiful women. I have no interest over seeing them in contexts in which they don't make sense, like an action story, but I don't see anything sexist in exhalting beauty; using it as a marketing ploy is annoying, but I wouldn't call it sexist either.

And by the way, I am surprised there isn't a similar use of scantily-clad men targeted towards women. I suppose their sexual drive works differently than with men, but surely it cannot be that different.

[ThirdGen]

If DC and Marvel were in it for the art, you wouldn't have superheroes being basically the genre of comics.  I wanna see comedies, dramas, fantasy, space adventure, historical/educational stuff eating into superheroes' shelf space.

[navybrandt he/him]

I love that the discussion is about adding realism to comic books. Isn't the point to take us away into a fantasy world that ISN"T real? Now my fantasy is different that your fantasy and really we're buying the author's fantasy. But, if I'm selling a comic book to an audience that is 93% male (*source), then masculine men and sexy females is what sells.

 

Perhaps there's a market out there for something different though and someone with the right talent should capitalize on it. Maybe female fantasy lovers are ignored, overlooked, trod upon. Maybe people want to see an "average joe or jane" do great things. The fact is, you can't please everybody, and you can't please anybody all the time.

[king of nowhere]

I love that the discussion is about adding realism to comic books. Isn't the point to take us away into a fantasy world that ISN"T real?

yes, absolutely. but just because a world is not real, it's no excuse to not make sense.

I mean, I can accept a world where the sky is filled with ash and people gains power by eating metal powder. i can accept a world where people have superpowers. What i cannot accept is stuff that is not consistent with the workings of those world. say, a person who regularly goes to fight and who expects to fight choosing an outfit that it totally impractical for fighting without any real reason for it.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

I'm going add my two cents to this discussion. Sadly, because I've typed this thing out twice and had it erased when the page automatically reloaded, I won't include pictures. Just open a tab and Google them at the appropriate times.  

 

 

Frosted Flakes is right on one account: Superhero comics present an idealization of the human form. That is part of their appeal. However, the reason why they catch so much criticism is because while comics idealize a wide array of male body types, they only idealize one female body type. 

 

Superman, the original hero, is a prime example of an idealized male body type. He is tall and strong, so muscular that you can see his abs rippling through his suit. His pants seem too snug to hold his legs. His biceps are so large that he seems able to throw a car without the aid of super strength. Superman is an idealized version of the male form, and the artwork makes no attempt to hide this fact. 

 

Spider-Man, on the other hand, is smaller. So far as height goes, he's a bit more on the average side. There are no rippling ab muscles, no massive limbs. Rather, he has a wiry, athletic build that is still idealized. He is lean and toned, with abs that (when the reader sees them) attest to either superhuman enhancement or hours doing crunches. Although Spider-Man isn't huge like the Man of Steel, his form is still very much idealized. A male reader can walk away with the impression that with a lot of hard work, he too can reach the pinnacle of physical condition for his body type, whether he is built like Clark Kent or built like Peter Parker. 

 

Now, take a look at a few female heroes. Storm. Gamora. Supergirl. Batgirl. All of these women share the exact same body type: small waist, narrow hips, large bust. Despite various countries of origin, despite widely differing backgrounds, despite a large spectrum of personal motivations and demons, all of these women have the same physical features. Their forms are highly idealized, but unlike their male counterparts, it is an idealization of the same form. There are no heavyset female superheroes, no small-busted female heroes, no wide-hipped female heroes. A female reader of superhero comics will walk away with the impression that if she does not have a large bust set on a narrow frame, she will never reach the pinnacle of female idealization. 

 

Skimpy outfits for female heroes are only part of the problem. They show off the female form, yes, but they hold up a very rare body type as the ideal female form. I am small-waisted and narrow-hipped, but because of my (very) small bust, I can never aspire to attain the body type romanticized in superhero comics. Heavyset women, no matter how beautiful their features, are not considered attractive enough to feature alongside the likes of Rogue and Jean Grey. The problem isn't only beautiful women in skimpy outfits. The problem is that only one very specific type of woman is considered beautiful enough to idealize. 

[Kaymyth she/her]

I am just gonna leave this right here...

 

 

Current in-progress work.  Full D&D-style armor for a Jean Grey costume.  Because male or female, spandex is stupid.

[Voidus]

I think the key point is that more superheros of both genders need to be middle aged. I'd love to see a Superman with a receding hairline who actually needs glasses struggling to maintain his secret identity now that Clark Kent can't just slip off his magic glasses thus causing his face to somehow be completely unrecognizable. Or a spiderman struggling to continue swinging on webs now that his back has given out.
Or for that matter a storm who uses her power to keep the cold at bay so her joints aren't feeling quite so achey.
Or pugs. All superheros should be pugs.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

A lot has to do with the artists as well. Some depict characters with a ridiculous amount of muscles, some as more normally proportioned, and some are Rob Liefeld and should be ashamed of themselves. 

 

As far as those pesky SJWs are concerned, it's a shame you feel that way, because those comics were pretty good. Besides, a lot of times the identities of super heroes change to get new readers. It's happened several times with Thors, there are two Human Torches (John Hammond is the best!), a couple Visions, three Captain Americas off the top of my head, a couple Iron Mans, there's now something called the Spider-verse full of Spider-mans, there are probably even more Ms. Marvels, it just happens and if you let yourself be influenced by talking-heads that don't even read comics, you miss out.

 

Of course, there's only one Moon Knight! 

[Quiver he/him]

I think the key point is that more superheros of both genders need to be middle aged. I'd love to see a Superman with a receding hairline who actually needs glasses struggling to maintain his secret identity now that Clark Kent can't just slip off his magic glasses thus causing his face to somehow be completely unrecognizable. Or a spiderman struggling to continue swinging on webs now that his back has given out.

Or for that matter a storm who uses her power to keep the cold at bay so her joints aren't feeling quite so achey.

Or pugs. All superheros should be pugs.

Not totally relevant but...

You might be interested in the original Spider-Girl. One of the things it involved was a cool female protagonist, and a Peter Parker who retired from crime-fighting after losing a leg.

Oh, and for cool superheroine costumes that are actually functional? Check out Batgirl's newest costume. Stylish, utilitarian, chic and unique. Seriously, such a great costume.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

A lot has to do with the artists as well. Some depict characters with a ridiculous amount of muscles, some as more normally proportioned, and some are Rob Liefeld and should be ashamed of themselves. 

 

As far as those pesky SJWs are concerned, it's a shame you feel that way, because those comics were pretty good. Besides, a lot of times the identities of super heroes change to get new readers. It's happened several times with Thors, there are two Human Torches (John Hammond is the best!), a couple Visions, three Captain Americas off the top of my head, a couple Iron Mans, there's now something called the Spider-verse full of Spider-mans, there are probably even more Ms. Marvels, it just happens and if you let yourself be influenced by talking-heads that don't even read comics, you miss out.

 

Of course, there's only one Moon Knight! 

 

 

They were dark days, those 90s. Dark days indeed.

 

Being the long-runners they are, most big-name comics almost have to change things up once in a while to keep the formula from getting stale. On a more meta level, the identities of superheroes like Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, and Green Lantern can be seen as sort of like the suits they wear. To the public, they're symbols, and the meaning behind that symbol will change over time. 

 

Take Spider-Man as an example. I haven't read the new comics, but I have heard the controversy around making him a gay Latino man. Well….regardless of whether or not you agree with the decision, the first Spider-Man was an underdog hero. He was a geek at a time when being geeky made one an outcast; small and wiry at a time when big and muscular was considered the pinnacle of masculinity. Peter Parker was an outlier among heroes, and his identity as an outlier made him a symbol of the underdog outsider championing over far stronger foes. By making him a member of not one, but two minority groups, Marvel is once again cementing Spider-Man as an underdog hero. I don't think they're doing it just to gain new readers; on one level, I think they're playing around with the character's history and what he means to the public in a changing world. 

[Guest]

I have read the entire discussion and it left me with a feeling of uneasiness. Comic book women are too often portrayed as sex bombs. I wonder, where is the problem?

 

What is wrong with this?

 

 

Or this?

 

 

Or even this?

 

 

 

After all, there are merely Comic book character meant to be idealized version of the women: they aren't real women. Why would women feel slighted or diminished by it? 

 

Aren't we also getting this?

 

 

And that?

 

 

It is amazing how hard it was to find the last two pics as even if I googled "sexy marvel comic male", I get this:

 

 

 

How can women feel they need to complain?

 

 

After all, this is just marketing. You have all no doubt notice the half-naked woman to the right. Surely this uniform serves a very utilitarian functionality and surely she should not be ashamed of having such a awesome butt. Of course, real life women should not be angry at this because these are not real...

 

They merely are the product of our wonderful entertainment industry which has consistently used the image of desirable women to sell its products. Sadly the reverse is not always true... How many movies do we have with the average dude scores the hit chick? How many movies do we have with the ugly duckling scoring the hot dude?

 

When it does happen, turns out she looks like this, under her over-all:

 

 

 

 

 

We produce all the arguments in the world, but the fact remains young girls are being taught their best weapon in life is their beauty which has the pernicious effect of leaving the majority of them outside the loop. I have read a studies stating how parents of young girls are more prone to tell them they are pretty while they are more prone to praise the accomplishments of their sons. How is it that when I drop my daughter at school, the little girls are proud to show me their crown or their skirt while boys are proud to show me their drawing? Why is it my daughter, then 3, sat in the car on day and told me: "Mommy, pink and purple are colors for girls while all of the other colors are for boys.". I never taught her that. She was 3, not 7! Moreover, why does my 2 and a half years old son promptly push back the pink fork I gave him stating: "Not good, for girl.". At 2 and a half???? I did not taught him that either.... Little did I mention he does not even know his colors: he stumbles between blue and red....

 

These are just colors, but it highlights how our children are being perniciously taught, from the youngest age, to act on their gender. Girls like dresses, pink and are proud of their looks while boys like any color and are proud of their work? From the youngest age and while they grow, these first impression are validated by the entertainment industry, in Comic books, in movies, in Anime where, again, women are depicted as being pretty before being useful. Not always, but too often, more often than the opposite.

 

So I am sorry, but there is a problem with this culture. To all of those who do not see the problem, I wish to ask you: "What are you going to tell your little girl? Is this how you want to raise her?"

 

 

[king of nowhere]

Frosted Flakes is right on one account: Superhero comics present an idealization of the human form. That is part of their appeal. However, the reason why they catch so much criticism is because while comics idealize a wide array of male body types, they only idealize one female body type. 

 

yeah, but that's a problem of society, and especiially with the society of the sixties, than a problem of those comic books.

 

It is also a problem for me, because I like several different body types, and sometimes I make compliment to girls that the girls do not perceive as compliments. One oof my favourite is "you are soft", because hey, I like a little padding over a girl. I don't get this thing with super-slim girls; sure, they are nice to see, but the moment you hug them, it feels like hugging a fence.

Anyway, I am not trying to woo those girls, so i can tell them what I want to say, not what they want to hear

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

yeah, but that's a problem of society, and especiially with the society of the sixties, than a problem of those comic books.

It is also a problem for me, because I like several different body types, and sometimes I make compliment to girls that the girls do not perceive as compliments. One oof my favourite is "you are soft", because hey, I like a little padding over a girl. I don't get this thing with super-slim girls; sure, they are nice to see, but the moment you hug them, it feels like hugging a fence.

Anyway, I am not trying to woo those girls, so i can tell them what I want to say, not what they want to hear

Society is what we make it. No one says we have to idealize one specific female body type and erase the rest. No one says we have to teach girls that their beauty is their greatest asset. The great thing about society is that it's fluid. It responds to pressure. History shows that change is possible if enough people want it, so why can't comics lead the way? Start by showcasing women with different body types. Give readers an absolutely gorgeous heavyset heroine who saves the day. Give them a woman with a small bust who makes that suit look amazing as she kicks butt. Let readers see women being perceived as pretty, even when they fall outside the very narrow standard of beauty, and show them being useful. Marvel and DC are in an enviable position where they have the power to begin pushing the boundaries of conventional beauty and gender roles, and it's downright tragic that they're just adding to the white noise.