Fantasy Pet Peeve Discussion Thread

[Blightsong he/him]

The thing that gets on my nerves is when people say that Brandon's books and their description and excess is boring. If only the knew of the cosmere and all the hints and clues that they are saying should be edited out!

That and when people call Pat Rothfuss, the founder of a charity organization, a money grubber.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Moving this to the General Discussion forum as this is not about the site.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

If we're discussing pt peeves in fantasy in general...

Mine is when characters do something relevant to the plot "without knowing why" or get angry without knowing why. Rick Riordan is the worst about this. All over the last two Heroes of Olympus books especially we have characters becoming angry or doing things the plot needs them to do for no real reason. If your characters don't know why they're doing something, don't make them do it.

[Blightsong he/him]

Moving this to the General Discussion forum as this is not about the site.

Thanks and sorry

[Sarcasm she/her]

I think everyone's pet peeve here is when authors don't release books soon enough and so you just go read WOR for the 495872934850384742835238479248020398323840298344789th time 

[Kobold King he/him]

What annoys me is the Always Chaotic Evil trope, in which every member of a race is stereotyped into exactly the same cookie-cutter format.

Sometimes it's justified. Brandon Sanderson, for instance, has perfectly good reasons for portraying every last koloss as a mindless savage beast. When done right, it's fascinating to see plausible explanations for why every member of a species might display the exact same behavior. But more often, it's done only so a writer can summon up endless hordes of endless minions for adventurers to slaughter.

 

 

Case in point: kobolds in Dungeons and Dragons and Dwarf Fortress game universes. They are portrayed as skulking, evil thieves in all appearances, which is held to justify acts of random murder and genocide whenever "heroes" come across their villages.

[ThirdGen]

One thing that bothers me (looking at you, Lord of the Rings trilogy) is splitting the beats of a story so far apart you've lost track of what was going on by the time you get back to some characters.  Bonus points if you need to constantly check a map to see if people are near each other, for instance.  Just reading the story should let you experience the story, without exactly needing to have memorized names of cities on the map that haven't been important yet, alternate names people have, or the backstory explained in appendices.

 

Sanderson... Sanderson tells stories. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

My pet peeve is when readers decide to show how cultured they are by criticizing a work for using "deus ex machina".

[Kobold King he/him]

My pet peeve is when readers decide to show how cultured they are by criticizing a work for using "deus ex machina".

 

It's often a very valid complaint.

[ThirdGen]

It's interesting how audiences much more readily accept diabolus ex machina.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

It's interesting how audiences much more readily accept diabolus ex machina.

Not this reader. It can be used well, but most of the time it's just irritating, like the writer is saying "No happy endings for you, loser! Real life sucks, and so does this ending!"

[Delightful]

Diabolus ex machina is when everyone dies?

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Diabolus ex machina is when everyone dies?

That can be part of it, but not always. A diabolus ex machina is a negative development that comes practically out of nowhere, usually toward the end of a story, with no real purpose but to make things awful for the characters. An example would be if, toward the end of Harry Potter, it had turned out that Ron had been a Death Eater all along, with Arthur Weasley as a massively powerful Dark wizard who had just played the kindly Muggle-lover in order to lure Harry to his (very permanent) death and sell Hermione into slavery in Voldemort's new regime.

[Delightful]

That can be part of it, but not always. A diabolus ex machina is a negative development that comes practically out of nowhere, usually toward the end of a story, with no real purpose but to make things awful for the characters. An example would be if, toward the end of Harry Potter, it had turned out that Ron had been a Death Eater all along, with Arthur Weasley as a massively powerful Dark wizard who had just played the kindly Muggle-lover in order to lure Harry to his (very permanent) death and sell Hermione into slavery in Voldemort's new regime.

And not foreshadowed or explained whatsoever, right?

Thanks

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

And not foreshadowed or explained whatsoever, right?

Thanks

Correct. If it's adequately foreshadowed, then it's not a diabolus ex machina.

Edited July 16, 2015 by TwiLyghtSansSparkles

[Voidus]

In terms of public opinion about fantasy the 'fantasy is just for children' line gets a bit old, though ASOIAF has helped that quite a bit.
In terms of annoying fantasy tropes it'd have to be 1 dimensional races, like Kobold mentioned there are certain, well designed exceptions but just once I want to see a foul-mouthed elf who wields a giant battle axe.

[Curious Anamaximder he/him]

Tolkien-derivative fantasy annoys me. Some people don't realize that dwarves, orcs, and elves aren't the only options.

I get that, but sometimes its fun to write a classic fantasy sort of thing.

[king of nowhere]

there are many things that i don't llike, it's difficult to pick one. but i would say sloppyness. when a book is poorly planned, the plot is not solid, it relies on clichès too much, when there are contradictions or mistakes in scientific informations given... basically, when you see that the author has not made well the planning and research, he has not double-checked the numbers or the timelines, that sort of thing. that is not related simply to fantasy, but it is more of a problem in fantasy, because some could think they can just get away with some handwaved magic to solve inconsistencies.

[Blaze1616 he/him]

My pet peeve is when readers decide to show how cultured they are by criticizing a work for using "deus ex machina".

 

My pet peeve is when authors think it's okay to use deus ex machina...

 

I considered leaving my post at that, but I find there's more I want to say. Just because a reader criticizes a work for using deus ex machina doesn't mean they are trying to show how "cultured" they are. Deus ex machina is, in my mind, an issue with literature as a whole. It is the the worst kind of cop out. Encountering it, to the point that the reader can actually notice it, shows that the author could not come up with an appropriate ending to their story. Let me rephrase; someone, whose job it is to write stories, could not come up with a viable ending to a story. The ending is literally 1/3 of their job.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I know how hard of a job it is to come up with stories interesting enough to sell. I also know how hard it is to come up with an ending, as well as how hard it is to make your story flow into your ending perfectly. I respect every single author I've ever criticized for using deus ex machina, because hey, they actually published a book, which is awesome. Other times, I don't criticize because either it's actually been pulled off well, or I've come to expect it (looking at you, Doctor Who). 

 

But when I do criticize, it's because the ending was so poorly done that I feel let down, and on a few occaisions, angry. To use an example, Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card is an excellent book. I enjoyed the way OSC explained tactics and the battlefield. I enjoyed the characters, and the way they thought. I enjoyed the side story about Ender's brother. But I did not enjoy his ending. Spoilers below:

The way that it just so happens he's been fighting the bugs the whole time infuriates me to this day. When I read that ending, I felt like OSC was sending me the message "Hey Blaze, so I know you've loved this book, but I got lazy and didn't want to actually write the rest of it, so instead I'm just going to say he's been fighting the bugs this whole time. I hope you understand." No OSC, I don't understand. Your ending relies on technology advancing to the point of instantaneous communication across large quantities of space, something you've been telling me throughout the novel isn't possible! 

 

I...I really don't think that ending will ever not baffle me.

 

But seriously though, deus ex machina. That's whack yo'.

 

---

 

Oh and another pet peeve of mine is when fantasy is overly sexualized, for no good reason.

[Adamir he/him]

You know the one thing I hate in today's gritty fantasy? Humans are the worst people in any given room. Whether they are cutting down sacred trees, burning down holy groves, being racist, being the most warmongering species on the planet... I am getting sick of it.

 

Allow me to give a typical example from the Dragon Age games, which I otherwise love.

 

Human: Get out of here, knife-ear!

 

Poor Widdle Elf: So... hungry...

 

Human: How about I test my blood magic by sacrificing this starving little knife-ear to summon demons, turn into a possessed abomination, and go on a rampage to kill hundreds more elves?

 

I also cannot express how grateful I felt when I played The Witcher 2 earlier this month. I found an elf in the forest being attacked by a group of peasants, so naturally I made the assumption that the elf, by virtue of not being human, was in the right. I stepped in, killed half a village, at which point she led me into a trap and revealed that she had just robbed and murdered the other half of the village. I felt just so glad that humans were not the most evil things in the room...

 

I am getting sick and tired of racism towards humans in fantasy. It was a good idea at first, but now... Over-done. I mean, some of my friends are humans, and most of them are all right.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Adamir

[Kaymyth she/her]

Not got anything in particular to contribute, but I am quietly taking notes of Things Not To Do.

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

Not got anything in particular to contribute, but I am quietly taking notes of Things Not To Do.

I thought I was the only one.

[Kestrel she/her]

- all the characters are white

- all the mythology is based solely off of European mythology

- over use of creatures like elves, orcs, etc

[TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her]

- all the characters are white

- all the mythology is based solely off of European mythology

- over use of creatures like elves, orcs, etc

 

This. The first two especially. European and Greek mythology are the two I see used the most, and while they can be cool, they're also a bit overused. And I think they can make a story predictable, if those tropes aren't handled carefully. 

[Kaymyth she/her]

I thought I was the only one.

 

Nope!

 

I do have some plans for trope-busting.  There are some tropes that I haaaaate, but they're not fantasy-limited tropes.  They're just general storytelling tropes that almost every story wanders into.