Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 This^. It's still not too common though certain authors have become well known for it (You all know who I'm talking about) but the problem is that the supposed goal (Getting rid of plot armour and letting even major characters die) Is almost never achieved, main characters still live through myriad situations which should have killed them but now at the end they might suddenly get hit with an arrow/bullet/firebolt to the neck and die out of no where just to make the readers upset. It is not overly common, yet, but I see many discussions as to "who should die" in order to increase the gloom... I hate characters which die simply because characters need to die or simply in a weak attempt to create an emotional response into the reader. I mean, if, as an author, you need to kill your characters to make your reader feel something then you are not a very good one....
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Looking at you, Divergent series. The worst part, I think, is that she didn't develop her characters before she killed them off. Each death was like Roth was a Mafia don, killing underling after underling just to remind us she was serious. Oh yeah. And of course, she needed to kill her main character simply to have her learn the value of selflessness
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Oh yeah. And of course, she needed to kill her main character simply to have her learn the value of selflessness Because having the main character's brother sacrifice himself wasn't selfless enough, I suppose. No, Tris had to step in and show him the right way to do it.
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Because having the main character's brother sacrifice himself wasn't selfless enough, I suppose. No, Tris had to step in and show him the right way to do it. While making her brother look like a complete moron for wanting to repay his debt and clear his conscience. She completely ruined his attempt at gaining forgiveness. Worst, she made it clear SHE was the only one who could do it, because she is such a special snowflake... The good news is, at that point in time, I did not care about Tris at all as a character, so I did not care when she died.
Orlion Blight he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 (edited) This^. It's still not too common though certain authors have become well known for it (You all know who I'm talking about) Oh, I know who you are talking about We're talking about R. Scott Bakker, right? Edited July 17, 2015 by Orlion
Mailliw73 he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 I do not think there is a single trope I hate enough to steer may away from any potential book. I do believe all tropes have potential, when well executed, though there are a few I'd rather we skip for a while... However, the one thing I currently get overly annoyed with is the tendency to rate an author's quality by the number of characters he (or she) is willing to kill. Grim fantasy now calls for blood such as to remove the sentient of comfort found in classical tales. Whereas grims fantasy has its merits, I do not see why characters have to die in EVERY book... I personally like to root for my characters and I hate to fear for their death. When I read Epic Fantasy, I want to keep on reading about my favorites, not see them die and be replace by others I have no attachment to. I agree, but do think it can be done well. Brandon is known for none of his characters being safe, but it isn't every main character who dies, and it isn't only side characters who die. When a character dies in a Sanderson novel, there's a good reason for it and it works. It's never a throwaway death or a pointless killing. The end of[brandon Spoilers] Mistborn Trilogy is one of my favorite endings to a book/series ever. Even though almost every character dies, there was a very good reason and they went out with a purpose. It fit their character to die the way they did. It points down directly towards an imply love triangle into SA and why I am so against it. I am so fed up with the bad grumpy penniless overly introspective boy which always ends up winning the girl because he is such a rare person deep down... The girl always falls madly in love with him because, of course, the nice handsome rich guy is always dump, boring or plain evil. It is, of course, impossible to crush on someone decent, you know, with a future ahead of him? And of course, the bad boy always is super smart inside his rags... Gee..... I'm excited to see this one progress, actually. I like Adolin and I like Kaladin, Kaladin more so, but I don't really want him to end up with Shallan. Brandon has done a good job of characterizing both options well and providing pros and cons to each and he's a good enough writer that I expect a satisfying resolution. 1
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 It turns into a love triangle? I'm not exactly surprised, and I have faith that Sanderson will play it well....but I'll ship Shallan/Adolin to the bitter end. 2
Kobold King he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 It turns into a love triangle? I'm not exactly surprised, and I have faith that Sanderson will play it well....but I'll ship Shallan/Adolin to the bitter end. Ah, yes. The ol' Shallan/Adolin/Sadeas triangle. 6
Mailliw73 he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 It turns into a love triangle? I'm not exactly surprised, and I have faith that Sanderson will play it well....but I'll ship Shallan/Adolin to the bitter end. I forget you haven't finished yet.
Kaymyth she/her Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 I second all mentioned above. I also strongly dislike the "love at first sight" cliche. I always hated that one, too. And then life walked up and smacked me over the head with it. Well, I guess it was more like a recognition. My husband and I met on an internet dating site well-known for doing matches based on personality profiles. We e-mailed for a week before meeting. I laid eyes on him, and it was just this feeling of, "There you are! I've been looking for you freakin' everywhere." And then I dragged him off with my be-costumed friends (this was the day after Halloween) as we wandered around the Plaza reverse trick-or-treating. And then went back to a friends' place for the almost-annual tradition of Pumpkin Katana Baseball. And it didn't scare him off. We were pretty much together from that point on. Married for over 4 years, together for approaching 7. We broke all the rules of logic, but it worked for us. Though I'm pretty sure it had a lot more to do with luck than destiny. Sometimes, you just want to read about heroes overcoming their issues and their fears and succeeding at it. What is wrong with that? YES. It points down directly towards an imply love triangle into SA and why I am so against it. I am so fed up with the bad grumpy penniless overly introspective boy which always ends up winning the girl because he is such a rare person deep down... The girl always falls madly in love with him because, of course, the nice handsome rich guy is always dump, boring or plain evil. It is, of course, impossible to crush on someone decent, you know, with a future ahead of him? And of course, the bad boy always is super smart inside his rags... Gee..... I am also tired of the boy meets girl, girl hates boys, endless bickering, boy falls in love with girl because reasons, girl falls in love because reasons, the end. What is wrong with dating someone and progressively learn to love each other? What is wrong with having a complicity with someone that does not sprout from endless fighting? Since when does fighting means attraction? These. I am tired of these. Not that it cannot be well made, but I wish to read about other kind of unions. I've got plans. Oh, have I got plans. Dissect All The Tropes! I agree, but do think it can be done well. Brandon is known for none of his characters being safe, but it isn't every main character who dies, and it isn't only side characters who die. When a character dies in a Sanderson novel, there's a good reason for it and it works. It's never a throwaway death or a pointless killing. The end of[brandon Spoilers] Mistborn Trilogy is one of my favorite endings to a book/series ever. Even though almost every character dies, there was a very good reason and they went out with a purpose. It fit their character to die the way they did. Yes. Brandon does it right, and I generally trust him to know what he's doing. That said, if Wayne doesn't wind up alive at the end of the last AoL-era book, I am going to be a very, very unhappy ginger. I might be a wee bit of a fangirl. 2
Guest Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 I agree, but do think it can be done well. Brandon is known for none of his characters being safe, but it isn't every main character who dies, and it isn't only side characters who die. When a character dies in a Sanderson novel, there's a good reason for it and it works. It's never a throwaway death or a pointless killing. The end of[brandon Spoilers] Mistborn Trilogy is one of my favorite endings to a book/series ever. Even though almost every character dies, there was a very good reason and they went out with a purpose. It fit their character to die the way they did. I'm excited to see this one progress, actually. I like Adolin and I like Kaladin, Kaladin more so, but I don't really want him to end up with Shallan. Brandon has done a good job of characterizing both options well and providing pros and cons to each and he's a good enough writer that I expect a satisfying resolution. Problem is Shallan/Kaladin are an overused trope whereas Shallan/Adolin are a less common one. Both are tropes, I am not disputing this, but the Love/Hate has been widely seen. It turns into a love triangle? I'm not exactly surprised, and I have faith that Sanderson will play it well....but I'll ship Shallan/Adolin to the bitter end. Well... We do not know yet... We think it might... Good girl for shipping Shallan/Adolin : they are adorable and there is nothing wrong with the nice guy for once (not to say Kaladin is not nice, but you get the idea)...
Mailliw73 he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Well... We do not know yet... We think it might... Good girl for shipping Shallan/Adolin : they are adorable and there is nothing wrong with the nice guy for once (not to say Kaladin is not nice, but you get the idea)... I definitely agree. Shalladin doesn't work for me.
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Ah, yes. The ol' Shallan/Adolin/Sadeas triangle. I have the perfect ending for that one. "I love you, Shallan," Adolin said. "I'll always love you." "I love you too," Shallan said, "but I don't see how we can get married with Sadeas threatening me." "On it," Kaladin said, and drove a knife through Sadeas' unarmored heart. "Let us be married tonight!" Adolin exclaimed. 6
Orlion Blight he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 That said, if Wayne doesn't wind up alive at the end of the last AoL-era book, I am going to be a very, very unhappy ginger. I might be a wee bit of a fangirl. After getting Wax and his posse of Allomantic Deputies into the lair of the newly-resurrected Lord Ruler, Wayne turns to Wax and says at the height of his zen, "I am a leaf on the wind". He is immediately impaled by two and a half Koloss battle spears.
Mailliw73 he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 I have the perfect ending for that one. "I love you, Shallan," Adolin said. "I'll always love you." "I love you too," Shallan said, "but I don't see how we can get married with Sadeas threatening me." "On it," Kaladin said, and drove a knife through Sadeas' unarmored heart. "Let us be married tonight!" Adolin exclaimed. You didn't get past the twist where Adolin was really Sadeas's worldhopping father from Sel?! Sadeas was being threatened by Adolin the whole time! 1
Kaymyth she/her Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 After getting Wax and his posse of Allomantic Deputies into the lair of the newly-resurrected Lord Ruler, Wayne turns to Wax and says at the height of his zen, "I am a leaf on the wind". He is immediately impaled by two and a half Koloss battle spears. This scenario....displeases me. 2
Orlion Blight he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 I have the perfect ending for that one. "I love you, Shallan," Adolin said. "I'll always love you." "I love you too," Shallan said, "but I don't see how we can get married with Sadeas threatening me." "On it," Kaladin said, and drove a knife through Sadeas' unarmored heart. "Let us be married tonight!" Adolin exclaimed. Sadeas coughs up blood, "Adolin, come closer... I must tell you something *cough* before I die. I'm you from the future, a future where Kaladin shipped with Shallan and caused the destruction of Roshar... and my heart *coughcoughhackblood* I had to travel back in time... be an cremhole and force you...me... to make the right choice...now, I can die in peace...." *expires* 7
TwiLyghtSansSparkles she/her Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 ShallanxStick OTP. No way. She'd always be asking him to change, he'd always refuse, she'd end up in tears, Pattern would step in to mediate and just make things worse....they'd never last. 4
ThirdGen Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 (looks left) (looks right) I hate shipping! (runs off) 1
Kaymyth she/her Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 (looks left) (looks right) I hate shipping! (runs off) Don't you mean port and starboard? You know, since there's so much shipping going on, we should be using nautical terms. OK, that sounded funny in my head. I am officially too sleepy to internet. 6
Kobold King he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Don't you mean port and starboard? You know, since there's so much shipping going on, we should be using nautical terms. OK, that sounded funny in my head. I am officially too sleepy to internet. 2
ThirdGen Posted July 17, 2015 Posted July 17, 2015 Don't you mean port and starboard? You know, since there's so much shipping going on, we should be using nautical terms. OK, that sounded funny in my head. I am officially too sleepy to internet. I sternly bow to your sleepy pun. 2
Blightsong he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Author Posted July 17, 2015 - also the trope that the male always has to be the strong one. Also the tough girl that is only there to be the token tough girl and is super one dimensional and only exists for the writer to not be sexist. 2
Blightsong he/him Posted July 17, 2015 Author Posted July 17, 2015 I definitely agree. Shalladin doesn't work for me. It totally works for me. They are very much the only people that understand each other. Adolin can never understand the deep emptiness and pain that Shallan feels and with thus never know the real her. Just the pampered naive light eyed girl.
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