little wilson she/her Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Well, my opinion is that Kas was killed because his disagreement with Hero was generating a lot of voting and discussion and other useful things. My top two suspicions are of Hero, for all of the reasons that have already been stated, and for Eol, because even if wilson would have thrown him under the bus for pulling a stunt like that, that was the response everyone gave him. He got several votes in a very short period of time. Then, when he gave his explanation, everyone's opinions changed, so if the spiked still were upset with him, splitting away from everyone like that would mark them as off. Regardless of how many people Eol guess incorrectly with, he almost certainly learned some info from his experiment, and the arguments about suiciding a player to gain info like that that were made during the first cycle still apply to him, he just managed to avoid getting killed. I can come back online around 5:30 Pacific Time and then shortly before the cycle ends. Most likely I will vote for one of these two, even if it is last minute and decides a lynch. Can you please explain how it fits that he told Kas what he was doing? If he was going off on his own without any advice from his fellow spiked, why in the world would he let someone else know who was not his own teammate? Here's how I see the Eol situation: Eol wanted to be of use and try to peg some people by seeing how they reacted. I'll bet he was trying to match things up with past games for the players he could as well. He wasn't expecting to be discovered as fast as he was, but people started discussing it in the thread. The first person to hint towards it was Winter. However, her couple of posts weren't a direct "Hey, this happened to me, what do I do?" It was a "What do you do if this happens?" It was more hypothetical, but those who were messaged as well would know what she meant. Then we have Ostrich who gets on and directly calls out about false accusations and requests people to get in touch with him and Winter to talk about this. And it all spirals from there. That's how the role reveals started getting out and everything hit the fan. Now, if Eol is a villager as I really think he is, the Spiked know this. When they got his PMs, they saw it as a way that they can totally spin the situation to string up someone. Make him look incredibly suspicious. Blow it out of proportion. Was Eol's experiment unwise? Yes. Should he have thought more about it? Yes. Did his explanation make sense? Yes. Did the situation blow up a little more than it should've? Yes. Was information revealed to more people than Eol? Yes. Is that Eol's fault? No. That's ours. That's on our heads. But who do you think was there, subtly encouraging the role reveals? The Spiked, almost assuredly. I've been evil enough times to know that if I had a chance like this, there's no way I'd let it pass me by. You bet I'd try to make people suspect an innocent. He all but offered himself to the Spiked saying "Please, set me up to be lynched!" The only reason he hasn't been is because most of us are trying to be as level-headed as possible. Could he be spiked? Yes, he could. Could he be innocent? Yes, he could. Which alignment makes more sense, given the entire situation? That he's a villager and the spiked took advantage of the opportunity he presented.
ostrichofevil he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I actually agree with Peng's point on voting for Dom. However, I am going to vote for him since the Eolhandras issue is long over, yet he still seems determined to lynch him. To me, this seems like a long inactive Spiked needing to find someone to point fingers at after coming back on, in order to get people to retract their votes on him. It seems pretty likely that Eol isn't Spiked since he has explained why he conducted his experiment.
Peng the Just he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) How is the issue over? Is he any less suspicious today than he was yesterday? Just because he was able to post some logic for it doesn't make him innocent. If there's one thing I've learned playing this game, it's that people can be more deceptive than you would think. It's best to just focus on what people do instead of what they claim, and the fact of the matter is eolhandras tried to run a phishing scam to draw out roles. EDIT: slight realization. After his day one actions, eolhandras was probably seeked. The fact that we haven't seen more of an action against him is a slight indicator towards his innocence. I'm still maintaining my vote for now though. Edited January 7, 2015 by jasonpenguin
Wyrmhero he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure what to do with my vote at the moment, to be perfectly honest. I can leave it on Jain, but I wouldn't be able to respond to him if he said anything later on, and I don't want to vote enough to get him lynched. I could remove it completely, but then I'm not sure I really want to do that. Do I distrust anyone enough to vote for them at this point? Well, quite possibly. I am going to vote for Eolhandras, bringing him up to two (Wilson may have convinced Weiry, but I am not so convinced, myself). If he is lynched and guilty, then I am happy to have brought it to that conclusion. If he is lynched and innocent, then at least this issue will have been settled once and for all, and we can stop being distracted by it. If he is not lynched, then let that settle for now so we can focus on other things. As to Wilson's question, which everyone has ignored - I think it would be good to get it out in the open if you think it is suspicious enough to flag up to us. At the very least, it's more information for us to look at when voting (or for you all to look at when voting this Cycle, at least). Edited January 7, 2015 by Wyrmhero
Peng the Just he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Clarification for meta: did you pick the eliminators or decide them at random?
Metacognition he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 Clarification for meta: did you pick the eliminators or decide them at random? A bit of both? First thing I do is decide which and how many of the roles I plan to use for the game. I decide on which roles, if any, I think would make for a challenging Spiked team. After I decided on which and how many of the roles I think will make for a compelling game, I randomly distribute them to the player list. Then I pick out of that distribution who the Spike team is. This way, there can't be any favoritism in my distribution, but I can also make sure that neither side is overpowered. 1
Peng the Just he/him Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 What I'm curious about, Wilson, is why you seem to be so determined to defend one of the most suspicious players?
little wilson she/her Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) What I'm curious about, Wilson, is why you seem to be so determined to defend one of the most suspicious players? A few different reasons. One, I think his explanation made sense, even if his course of action wasn't the wisest. I don't believe in lynching players based purely on a stupid move. He was a good player in the one game I played with him, even if I didn't interact with him at all and I think he has potential, so I'm not about to say that he's not worth anything to Team Good if he's not spiked, just because he did this. Two, I honestly think the Spiked were trying to set him up. Looking at it in that light, the situation makes a lot more sense to me than the other way around, because I really can't see a spiked team ever coming even close to condoning something like this. Maybe I'm totally and completely wrong about that. But if Eol is Spiked and was intentionally trying to get himself lynched, it makes no sense for him to come back and give such a hardy defense of his actions. We'd be in a lot more of an uproar right now after lynching him and knowing for a fact that the Spiked had that much information. Plus, we'd be trusting some Spiked a bit as well, because I was willing to write off Mek, Piff, Ostrich, and Winter as all being Villagers since they were the first to come out and try to work through the situation so openly. And I think Ostrich at least is Spiked. Three, Kas kind of trusted him. At least, I'm nearly certain that's who Kas was referring to. In one of my PMs with him, he said there were only two players he kind of trusted. I was one of them. And since he came to me to defend Eol (even if it was only to tell me that Eol had told him about the experiment before he did it) I'm pretty sure Eol was the other one. Kas is one of the most paranoid players in this game. He knows he's prone to trusting people, so he tends to overcompensate, particularly for players like me, Wyrm, and Ren. Gaining his trust is rather difficult. Granted, I haven't had to do that as an eliminator, but I'm fairly certain I should just avoid Kas altogether if I'm an eliminator. Far safer that way, even if he presents an interesting challenge. The fact that he trusted Eol, even if it was just a little bit, is another mark in Eol's favor. And since Wyrm requested that I reveal the person who asked, I will, but only because I want more discussion on this, and I feel this is the only way to gain it. I'm still uncertain about whether he was trying to find out exactly how much I knew or if he was an innocent villager trying to decide for himself what happened. Ash was the player. For now, my vote is staying on Wyrm. Edited January 7, 2015 by little wilson grammar
Renegade he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Not sure what to make of Ash's request, but I have other things I'd like from some people, so I'm taking my vote off for now. (It would be nice if you did explain this, though, Ash.) Alright, so we have at least three people who know something about Eol’s role scanning info, I believe? Eol, Winter, and Ostrich. I’ve seen many people this turn either subtly or explicitly put evidence against Ostrich and Eol, but I haven’t seen nearly as many people put anything Winter Cloud’s way. Plus, Winter Cloud has been getting very quiet and still isn’t voting, and I don’t really understand the reasoning behind that. Care to explain? As I sort-of mentioned earlier, I’m concerned about the players that have brought things to the table for discussion, but haven’t done many explanations of suspicions. Maill being the main one on my mind, for putting a vote towards Ash, just like last cycle, but not having any explanation towards it. Doesn’t look like you’re planning to move it either, so I’d like an explanation for that. I’m still worried by Macen and Jasnah’s complete inactivity. If you are secretly reading this thread, please stop. I’m slightly suspicious of Mckeedee, as he only showed up once this cycle, to try and put some heavy suspicion towards Wilson. I haven’t seen him brought up that much either. (However, there are many other quiet players who need to speak more. It’s making me slightly worried.) Also, just for data purposes, here are the vote-totin’ players so far this cycle: WyrmEolWilsonHero (Retracted)SeonidDowanx (Retracted)Weiry (Retracted)MaillArarisSarcomereClancyPengOstrichRenegade Ashiok And here are the non-voters, so far: UnodusWinter CloudMacenAshiokLord PifferdooJoeMckeedeeDomJasnahNewanJain I know that half of these people have given RL reasons for being inactive, but still, these aren't the statistics I’m looking for. Edited January 8, 2015 by Renegade
Ashiok Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Alrighty then. People want explanations? Here they come. Take notes I asked about Kas for three reasons:1. his death was random, which was strange. 2. WIlson, as PM leader, would probably know who he'd been in contact with/ suspicious of. This would give me almost hard info to work with. 3. I was curious.... Conclusions drawn from it: 1. Wilson is REALLY good at Elimination. 2. I need to read more carefully 3. Dowanx, I find you extremely suspicious, both because of my gut and because of some of the things you said. For example, you said you were worried about Wilson and Claincy being on top, that had been addressed multiple times already. You then proceeded to interrogate Wilson, using old info. 4. I'm really bad at SE... EDIT: 3. and 4. are related to the conversations after Kas' death, not necessarily Kas' death... Edited January 8, 2015 by Ashiok
Araris Valerian he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Renegade, I retracted my vote this cycle btw. Eol, if he is spiked, probably wanted somebody that could back up what he was doing without implicating a second spiked person in the plot. Kas can't really do much about that situation anymore. I agree with Wyrm, we are focusing nearly all of our discussion on Eol and I think that it is time for us to find out what is really up with him. From there, we can work with who defended him/argued for his death since we have lots of posts in that area.
dowanx Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) 3. Dowanx, I find you extremely suspicious, both because of my gut and because of some of the things you said. For example, you said you were worried about Wilson and Claincy being on top, that had been addressed multiple times already. You then proceeded to interrogate Wilson, using old info. I raised my concerns after Kas was killed because I thought Wilson or Claincy were going to die that night. Neither died and then it wasn't even brought up. I felt that that issue needed to be addressed further. Edit Color I'm Awesome because I'm Awesome Edited January 8, 2015 by dowanx
Ashiok Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Ok, but then why did you grill Wilson and ignore Claincy?
Mckeedee123 he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I’m slightly suspicious of Mckeedee, as he only showed up once this cycle, to try and put some heavy suspicion towards Wilson. I haven’t seen him brought up that much either. (However, there are many other quiet players who need to speak more. It’s making me slightly worried.) Well, actually, I trust Wilson a lot. I stated that quite definitively at the end of my post. I didn't mean to cast suspicion on her, I just wanted to point out that most of her suspects are people who have attacked her in-thread. Those PM networks give her and Claincy a lot of clout, so it seemed important to me to point that out (Hey, that rhymed!) But I suppose it's about time to cast a vote anyway. Here's what I think, in case anybody cares: Wilson's vote on Wyrm is a little... unfounded. Imean, I suppose anybody here could be an eliminator, but I don't think Wyrm has done anything in particular to stand out as a suspect. Same for Ash. Eoldren is a special case, but I don't think it's a good idea to lynch people who are probably innocent just to "see what's up with them". And, and... Well, I guess I'm not really all that suspicious of anybody. Maybe I should just delete this paragraph. Or I could just post it. Lynching's tough for me. While I agree that it needs to be done, I don't want to be the one to actually point the finger at an innocent player and have them be killed by accident. And then, of course, there's the fact that everybody seems to read too much into it. Who you vote for, and when, and how, and why, is overanalyzed by people into these behemoth walls of blue texted suspicion. In fact, right now I'm pretty sure that people are going to start pointing fingers at me if I don't vote for two cycles in a row. What a mess. Well, I suppose Dowanx is a little suspicious now that you mention it, but please please please don't overanalyze this vote. Please
Lord Pifferdoo he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 For various reasons, mostly ones involving reading other people's arguments and thinking You know, that makes sense. I'm going to (hesitantly) vote for Eol. However, if you can give me a really good reason not to, I may be convinced otherwise.
dowanx Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I did mention Claincy several times, but your right I did go after Wilson more. The main reason I started my post was because I thought it was odd that neither of them died. I went after Wilson more because from what I read and my gut. Simply, she was suspicious while I found Claincy only mildly suspicious at the time.
Ashiok Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Ok, Dow, that's a good reason for now, but I'm still suspicious of you. I just don't think that pressing the envelope right now would be useful. Now, then. I have it from Wilson that before Kas died, he was in coontact with Ren and Wyrm, and that he was suspicious of Wyrm. Now, seeing as these suspicions weren't at the top of the list, nobody really noted them, except the eliminators. Perfect time to eliminate a probable threat, whose ideas were headed in the right direction.
little wilson she/her Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Now, then. I have it from Wilson that before Kas died, he was in coontact with Ren and Wyrm, and that he was suspicious of Wyrm. Um. I'll have to go back and check my PM with him to make certain, but I don't think I ever said Kas was suspicious of Wyrm. I said that Ren told Kas that Ren was suspicious of Wyrm, because Wyrm was focusing a little too much on the inactives and Sart (Day 1, before Sart died).
Ashiok Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 No, you're right... I really need to read more carefully. My vote still stands, there's something fishy there...
Seonid he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I'm at work (just at the end of break) right now, so I don't have a lot of time to read everything and analyze it all. Nothing immediately jumps out at me enough to say "Change your vote!" I won't have another chance to be on until after the cycle change, so I'm going to leave my poke vote on Macen for now, just because I don't have anywhere better to put it. I hope I can be reasonably confident that we won't lynch him while I'm gone.
Metacognition he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Author Posted January 8, 2015 First up, you guys have just over 2 hours until the end of the day! Secondly, I was going through and recording votes and thought you all might like a vote count, so here you go! (4) Eoladdin- Baron von Piffertiff, Peng, Aralis, Wyra (2) Lord Ostrich- Eoladdin, Reeco (2) Wyra- Wilson, Ashette (2) Peng- Jain, Lord Ostrich (1) Ashette- Maill (1) Ament- Melend (1) Larry- Senn (1) Maill- Rent (1) Jain- Clancy (10)No Votes- Joe, Dom, Cleo, Newan, Herwynbe, Ament, Damon, Odustren, Riew, Larry Enjoy! 1
Sarcomere Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Well, for now I'll retract my vote against Ostrich (I'm not sure how to go back to old posts and edit for color). Ash made good sense. I'll refrain from voting this cycle, and see how things turn out before I make any further, possibly misguided, decisions.
Lord Pifferdoo he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Sorry for posting so late - just finished applying for a pretty big scholarship that may-or-may-not determine where I go to college. Anyways! I'm retracting my vote for Eol because I did a lot of sifting and logic-working and I pretty sure he's innocent now, however I'm still suspicious. I'm suspicious of everyone except myself and the dead people.
Herowannabe he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) So when and where did Wilson vote for Wyrm? Because I'm not seeing it... Edit: nevermind, I see it now Edit2: so I spent a good deal of my freetime today rereading the game to this point, and after a lot of consideration I'm going to vote for Ostrich. I realize this is a last minute vote, but I doubt it will cause him to be lynched, so it shouldn't cause too much trouble (I hope). I have my reasons for voting for Ostrich. No I am not going to share them at this time. Ostrich can make of that what he will (as can the rest of you). Edited January 8, 2015 by Herowannabe
Mailliw73 he/him Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Ren, I voted for Ash because of his post where he told Hero that lynching is one of the most important things in this game and voting is valuable. In the same post, he also said he wasn't going to vote that cycle. That, and some other posts that have been contradictory, and a gut feeling have led me to vote for Ash. At this point in time though, I'm pretty certain Eol isn't Spiked. So if it comes down to it, I'm much more suspicious of Wyra. I'd rather not lynch someone I think is innocent, and while I do suspect Ash more than Wyrm, Ash isn't going to get lynched this cycle and so I might as well put my vote somewhere useful.
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