LG113: Day 1: Freedom of Speech

[Mat he/him]

3 minutes ago, Mystfall said:

There’s a role for it. There is no guarantee that Jo put the role in though

You know he did, come on :P. You dont just design a game with an elim special conversion potential role and then dont use it

@other people: ok so I guess then we can just get an idea of the state of things? Cause rn no one controlled their loyalty (except twin). Is there a role that manipulates loyalty? (If no one answers I’ll just check tomorrow)

[coco.pudding she/they]

Just now, Mat said:

Is there a role that manipulates loyalty?

I believe there’s a few actually

[Mystfall He/Him]

1 minute ago, Mat said:

You know he did, come on :P. You dont just design a game with an elim special conversion potential role and then dont use it

That’s true lol 

[Ink and Embers Any pronouns]

5 minutes ago, Mat said:

You know he did, come on :P. You dont just design a game with an elim special conversion potential role and then dont use it

@other people: ok so I guess then we can just get an idea of the state of things? Cause rn no one controlled their loyalty (except twin). Is there a role that manipulates loyalty? (If no one answers I’ll just check tomorrow)

Several: Smuggler, Minister, Naval Officer, Royal Something, Mavset-im, and other roles with the potential to affect your / someone else's loyalty

[KeyFox]

Makkib was waiting. Of course he was. He always ensures that no danger lurks in the shadows. He checked behind each and every desk to make sure no one was hiding, he fiddled with the windows to see if anyone had tampered with them, he even peeked under the desks to look to hidden fabrials. There was no danger present in the room.

----------------------

After Teej's announcement, Makkib felt a strange sense of unease. He knew it was probably nothing, as he had cleared the room before anyone had a chance to pull anything sneaky. Yet, something was off. Maybe it was just the lingering feeling of alarm when he had discovered the letter this morning. Maybe it was his loneliness as he still tried to adapt to an unfamiliar culture.

Regardless, something big was about to go down, and Makkib did not want to be on the receiving end of it.

 

21 minutes ago, Ink and Embers said:

It would reveal the number of players with negative starting loyalty, from what I can tell?

That could be valuable

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

1 hour ago, Mystfall said:

 @Jo and the Bush do you make a new doc every time a high-guard dies?

Nope. The Same doc all the way through.

1 hour ago, Mat said:

edit2: @Jo and the Bush did twin choose their starting loyalty before or after receiving their GM PM?

PAFO (For new players, that is an Acronym for Play and Find Out, meaning that I'm not going to reveal that.)

53 minutes ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

@Mat According to the Rules the Deposition Votes will be publicly revealed.

I can see two interpretations of this:

a) we will know who has positive, neutral, or negative Loyalty

b) we will know how many have positive, neutral or negative Loyalty

@Jo and the Bush @Cuendillar please Clarify

The general Loyalties of all players will be revealed during Deposition votes.

[Mystfall He/Him]

Alright, did some looking, OoA is as follows:

Spoiler

ORDER OF ACTIONS:

Day Turn

Day Turn begins

Deposition Votes Announced

Parliamentarian Decrees Announced

Royal Detainees Announced

Players cast votes

Royal Pos Action

Rebsk Pos/Neg Actions

Banker Pos Action

Loyalty Self-Targeting Actions

Rebsk Neutral ACtion

Execution Votes Announced

Naval Officer Survives if executed.

Executed Player dies

Royal Neg Action goes into effect

Night Turn

Night Turn Begins

Parliamentarian Decrees Announced

Royal Detainees Announced

Smuggler Actions

Royal Pos Action

Highguard Protects

Minister/Parliamentarian/Bonded Actions 

Motions to Depose recorded

Maveset-im Action

Loyalty Self-Targeting Actions

Highguard and Corrupt Kills happen

Naval Officer survives if Negative Loyalty

Secretary Actions

Royal Neg Action goes into effect

Motion to Depose happens

Basically, all loyalty affecting actions happen before the deposition occurs.

meaning that if we move to depose tonight we’re not going to get starting loyalties, we’re going to get starting loyalties after being affected by actions(both V and E) and I have less confidence in that than I do in Jo’s original loyalty Distro

I’m currently leaning against the idea of doing a depo tonight. I realize that knowing what situation we’re in will help, but I’m not sure if it’s worth the risk if it’s open to player interference.

I realize that it’s not really my decision, one person alone can decide to depose, but unless I get the impression that the large majority of people have positive loyalty, or something changed I don’t think it’s worth the risk of losing this quickly.

 

[Illwei]

2 hours ago, Asriel said:

Rbiren gazed at Teej thoughtfully. It was sometimes hard to remember how pragmatic these Thaylens were. No morals - just what kept them alive.
Then again, who was he to be talking?
"Thaylenah must consider the fact that should the alliance lose the Contest of Champions, we will still be safe. The chances of the enemy somehow capturing our entire kingdom are unlikely at best."

Holding to my word (this boon announcement makes him more suspicious anyway) - Mystfall/Fickle

Edit: Grammar

I'm going to try to be a little less than last game, probabaly won't be so hard since I'm not really one for RP heavy games.

That said, Asriel.

Nothing Particularly Concerning in any sense, but the addition of the "this boon announcement makes him more suspicious" is reminiscent of an Elim feeling like they need to give more justification for an early vote than necessary.

The addition of the boon doesn't imply an Alignment one way or another, and picking from a pool of desired roles doesn't make him any more likely to be one alignment or another.  Straight up I believe it makes him more of a target than not for the Elims, knowing that he had a [minor] choice in what roles he might have gotten. Depending on who is on the Elim team and if they know Myst/Hoid well it could also be used to narrow down what roles they might have gotten. 

Either way the point is that the boon doesn't make him more suspicious for having received it, and this reads more like an attempt to grab something that may be needed if someone chooses to question the vote. 

@The Unknown Character
I suppose Mat already commented on this, but what exactly do you think the benefits are? 

The Cons seem to be that with a potential (read: likely) convert on the Elim team, anyone voting negatively in the deposition is potentially another person who may be converted. While this may seem like it gives info on
 - Who to use abilities on
 - What abilities these players might have at their disposal
 - Who is potentially going to be converted 
I worry that instead it would cause
 - More targeted convert without the Elims having to wait to find people
 - A PoE of people that either the Elims will use to try and kill in for "maybe being converted", or villagers with paranoia moving that way
 - A potential deposition of the Queen on N1 with how the game may have randed. 

While unlikely on the last point, Its still a potential option. Interested in hearing what your thoughts are on why a deposition is good and what info you think you will get out of it. There is incentive [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means those with negative loyalty are not inherently looking to harm the village. (I will note that it seems to only take one voice to move to depose, so I would be aware of your loyalty if you are able to change it.) 

@Mystfall

I would definitely not think 5. I remember a 28 player game I was in, and that one had 6 Elims. Granted, rules have to be taken into account and I'm not quite sure how to do that at the moment. 

The convert is a one-time-use ability basically, and with depositions happening I would doubt it happens later in the game. I would assume 4 currently with the ability to move to 5. There is incentive, as I said before, [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means the ability to convert is most likely easier than not. 

As for the idea of a High Guard being an Elim - I wouldn't think it would be completely random as to where some roles go. Maybe Joe rands it completely, but more likely there's some basis of who goes where. So yes, I would operate under the assumption that there is an Elim in the High Guards. Not to the degree of outing the high guards as a method of finding an Elim at all though, I'm just thinking aloud. 

But yeah, I'd lean more on the 4 side at this point, considering the convert. 

 

As an aside: I do think that Elims are going to change other peoples loyalties, should they have the ability, rather than their own. It's more in their favor to try and lower a Villager who might live longer into the game, or might be seen as untrustworthy for having a lowering loyalty than to risk lowering themselves, getting found, and losing that negative vote. 

------------------------------

Councilor #6 always hated his name. His parents must have been cruel, he had thought, to have given him such a name. Councilor #6.

His younger years were full of teasing from his peers. 'Councilor' they called him. Well, that was his name, of course. But the way they said it - as if it was his name - that part always got to him. 

His mother always said that when he was older he would understand. That names are more than just names. They were your future, they were your past, if you wanna get with me, better make it- wait no, that part wasn't his mother. Anyways, he didn't ever believe her. At least not until recently...

------------------------------

[Mystfall He/Him]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

I would definitely not think 5. I remember a 28 player game I was in, and that one had 6 Elims. Granted, rules have to be taken into account and I'm not quite sure how to do that at the moment. 

The convert is a one-time-use ability basically, and with depositions happening I would doubt it happens later in the game. I would assume 4 currently with the ability to move to 5. There is incentive, as I said before, [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means the ability to convert is most likely easier than not. 

As for the idea of a High Guard being an Elim - I wouldn't think it would be completely random as to where some roles go. Maybe Joe rands it completely, but more likely there's some basis of who goes where. So yes, I would operate under the assumption that there is an Elim in the High Guards. Not to the degree of outing the high guards as a method of finding an Elim at all though, I'm just thinking aloud. 

But yeah, I'd lean more on the 4 side at this point, considering the convert. 

 

I’ve had people in PMs tell me similar, and while I personally think 6/28 is rather small, I also haven’t ever GMed.

As for the high-guards, i pretty much agree.

I don’t think revealing them is a good idea, maybe later if we’re absolutely sure there’s an Elim. But that’s a maybe. That said since Jo isn’t making a new doc, even if there isn’t an Elim now, there probably will later, so any high guards need to absolutely be cautious in what they saw and whether they reveal identities or not.

As for the Randomness thing of the high-guards, I know my role was random, and I got to influence that, so I don’t see why he’d treat the High-guards differently.

[Illwei]

While I don't think that a specific person was chosen for any individual role, I wouldn't put away the idea of throwing out certain rands that don't work in theory. 

EDIT: in fact I think its strange you dont think that some distros could be thrown out, based on your earlier comment about how you think the convert role might not even be in the game.

Edited 21 hours ago by Illwei
,

[Mystfall He/Him]

8 minutes ago, Illwei said:

While I don't think that a specific person was chosen for any individual role, I wouldn't put away the idea of throwing out certain rands that don't work in theory. 

EDIT: in fact I think its strange you dont think that some distros could be thrown out, based on your earlier comment about how you think the convert role might not even be in the game.

That’s reasonable, but there’s no way for us to get into Jo’s head and figure out exactly what he’d allow and what he wouldn’t.

at least not for me, I don’t know him well enough for that

As for not throwing out Distros, I do not think a game without a convert role is very likely, but it is possible(this does depend on how he built the RNG that decided the roles, Jo could have done it in a way that made it guaranteed to show up)

Regardless of whether there is or isn’t a convert role though, at some point in the game, there will be the same amount of Elims as if we started with 5*
 

*weird phrasing is because if there’s 4 Elims and they convert, there’s now five. If there’s 5 Elims and a convert there is a point where there’s 5 Elims. If 5 Elims no convert then there’s a point where it’s 5 Elims. And if Elims die, then there’s still a point where it’s the same(if that makes sense)

Not sure where I was going with that though

[TwinStorm He/Him]

welp new game lol

3 am for me, idk why im posting on the game, dont question my life choices anymore

as for my thoughts . . . ah screw it, ill give you some in the morning im going to shreep 

[KaladinsSenseOfHumourSpren He/Him]

Vivliktv grinned at his latest masterpiece - a pot full soup. Not just any soup, however, but the finest soup in all of Roshar, even if no one else seemed to agree with him. Chull antannae, cremling exoskeletons, rockbud husks... Vivliktv always included the ingredients that other chefs seemed to ignore, and he'd found that the results were quite exquisite.

He noticed with a start that the meeting had begun. Something about Odium and the Singers...

The chef shrugged and tossed a chasmfiend eye into the pot.

[Wahrheitswächter He/Him]

@coco.pudding

"Fine, we can talk tonight in the Gardens" Ralm answered. "But don't think you can fool me, I know what you did on Relu-Na, I saw it, with my own eyes." He turned away from his former apprentice, toward an old friend of his "Hello old friend" he greeted Dvalk "How are you?"

@Ascended Grubberfly

[WhimsyIsTheBestShard]

Lord Falwin stands, thinking about the "events" that happened this morning. At least there was only one letter. Lord Falwin didn't believe in "Odium", of course. It was simply something that those anti-loyalists made up to scare us into submission. "I won't be fooled," he muttered under his breath. Even Fen seemed as if she believed it, and she wasn't exactly ignorant. Anyway, that's not to say the non-loyals weren't dangerous. They were. His legs started walking to another councilor. "Oh, hello! Pleasure to meet you! My name is Lord Falwin, did you know Odium isn't real?"

Edited 15 hours ago by WhimsyIsTheBestShard

[The Unknown Character he/him]

7 hours ago, Mat said:

Explain to me why this is ever a logical decision to make? Like I dont think you’re evil for this cause it’d be too obvious but from what I remember of the rules there is absolutely no upside, and the only situation that people vote to dispose the Queen is one when the elims do it and out themselves to win

im going to sleep now, I skimmed some stuff and haven’t read the rules in a minute but tomorrow I have more time, good to be back <3.

edit: @Mystfall if I recall correctly the elims have conversion potential so I personally doubt we currently are dealing with five. Someone should check that tho

edit2: @Jo and the Bush did twin choose their starting loyalty before or after receiving their GM PM?

—

Mat sighed, his bones creaking as he made his way back to his quarters. It was getting late (far too late for an old man like him to be up and about) and he could already tell this was a talkative bunch. Best to be well-rested for the discussion tomorrow morning…

 

5 hours ago, Illwei said:

I'm going to try to be a little less than last game, probabaly won't be so hard since I'm not really one for RP heavy games.

That said, Asriel.

Nothing Particularly Concerning in any sense, but the addition of the "this boon announcement makes him more suspicious" is reminiscent of an Elim feeling like they need to give more justification for an early vote than necessary.

The addition of the boon doesn't imply an Alignment one way or another, and picking from a pool of desired roles doesn't make him any more likely to be one alignment or another.  Straight up I believe it makes him more of a target than not for the Elims, knowing that he had a [minor] choice in what roles he might have gotten. Depending on who is on the Elim team and if they know Myst/Hoid well it could also be used to narrow down what roles they might have gotten. 

Either way the point is that the boon doesn't make him more suspicious for having received it, and this reads more like an attempt to grab something that may be needed if someone chooses to question the vote. 

@The Unknown Character
I suppose Mat already commented on this, but what exactly do you think the benefits are? 

The Cons seem to be that with a potential (read: likely) convert on the Elim team, anyone voting negatively in the deposition is potentially another person who may be converted. While this may seem like it gives info on
 - Who to use abilities on
 - What abilities these players might have at their disposal
 - Who is potentially going to be converted 
I worry that instead it would cause
 - More targeted convert without the Elims having to wait to find people
 - A PoE of people that either the Elims will use to try and kill in for "maybe being converted", or villagers with paranoia moving that way
 - A potential deposition of the Queen on N1 with how the game may have randed. 

While unlikely on the last point, Its still a potential option. Interested in hearing what your thoughts are on why a deposition is good and what info you think you will get out of it. There is incentive [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means those with negative loyalty are not inherently looking to harm the village. (I will note that it seems to only take one voice to move to depose, so I would be aware of your loyalty if you are able to change it.) 

@Mystfall

I would definitely not think 5. I remember a 28 player game I was in, and that one had 6 Elims. Granted, rules have to be taken into account and I'm not quite sure how to do that at the moment. 

The convert is a one-time-use ability basically, and with depositions happening I would doubt it happens later in the game. I would assume 4 currently with the ability to move to 5. There is incentive, as I said before, [that seems to be counted upon by game design] for Villagers to have negative loyalty at times, which means the ability to convert is most likely easier than not. 

As for the idea of a High Guard being an Elim - I wouldn't think it would be completely random as to where some roles go. Maybe Joe rands it completely, but more likely there's some basis of who goes where. So yes, I would operate under the assumption that there is an Elim in the High Guards. Not to the degree of outing the high guards as a method of finding an Elim at all though, I'm just thinking aloud. 

But yeah, I'd lean more on the 4 side at this point, considering the convert. 

 

As an aside: I do think that Elims are going to change other peoples loyalties, should they have the ability, rather than their own. It's more in their favor to try and lower a Villager who might live longer into the game, or might be seen as untrustworthy for having a lowering loyalty than to risk lowering themselves, getting found, and losing that negative vote. 

------------------------------

Councilor #6 always hated his name. His parents must have been cruel, he had thought, to have given him such a name. Councilor #6.

His younger years were full of teasing from his peers. 'Councilor' they called him. Well, that was his name, of course. But the way they said it - as if it was his name - that part always got to him. 

His mother always said that when he was older he would understand. That names are more than just names. They were your future, they were your past, if you wanna get with me, better make it- wait no, that part wasn't his mother. Anyways, he didn't ever believe her. At least not until recently...

------------------------------

Just addressing both of you at once

1. It gives us an idea of where we're at. It lets village loyalty manipulators know who they need to help. It might seem like it gives the elims a list of who to target, but tbh everyone's a good target to decrease loyalty for one reason or another. We have more village loyalty manipulations than the elims do. 

2. It sets a baseline. Started with losing loyalty or even close to losing loyalty would be like starting with only one elim. It's way too swingy and you can't start with one alignment that close to their win con. Then, when someone inevitably triggers it again, we can know who has been fudging their loyalty over time. 

3. It encourages villagers to not play with low loyalties and makes it harder for elims to use that as an excuse. If I'm explicitly going to depose, you can't use your action to make yourself lose loyalty. In fact, now all of you need to increase your loyalty with your action (unless you're already at +2 or -2) so that you can't be subtracted into a negative vote by an elim. 

[Mat he/him]

Mystfall

More later

[Mint11 she/her]

5 hours ago, Mystfall said:

As for not throwing out Distros, I do not think a game without a convert role is very likely, but it is possible(this does depend on how he built the RNG that decided the roles, Jo could have done it in a way that made it guaranteed to show up)

Chise narrowed her eyes at Fickle. It was odd that he thought the traitors wouldn't pull someone to their side, even if he hedged by acknowledging the improbability of it. Perhaps even because he hedged. This lot was not so spotless and there is no way Jo would not put the convert role in. There was something off about it, as if he was trying to pull their guard down.

 

58 minutes ago, The Unknown Character said:

Just addressing both of you at once

1. It gives us an idea of where we're at. It lets village loyalty manipulators know who they need to help. It might seem like it gives the elims a list of who to target, but tbh everyone's a good target to decrease loyalty for one reason or another. We have more village loyalty manipulations than the elims do. 

2. It sets a baseline. Started with losing loyalty or even close to losing loyalty would be like starting with only one elim. It's way too swingy and you can't start with one alignment that close to their win con. Then, when someone inevitably triggers it again, we can know who has been fudging their loyalty over time. 

3. It encourages villagers to not play with low loyalties and makes it harder for elims to use that as an excuse. If I'm explicitly going to depose, you can't use your action to make yourself lose loyalty. In fact, now all of you need to increase your loyalty with your action (unless you're already at +2 or -2) so that you can't be subtracted into a negative vote by an elim. 

"Have you all gone mad?" Chise was hoping to be more diplomatic, watch how things played out, but she could no longer hold her tongue. "Loathe as I am to admit it, there can be benefits to acting as if one if Odium's supporter, even if one is truly loyal, if you have certain abilities. Not to mention, if we all use our efforts to resist the traitors, no one will be able to use any abilities they have at all. Why handicap how loyalists choose to use those roles?"

This had just begun. A vote now would be like judging an artist by a painting they made while blindfolded. It may not carry much risk of deposition, but it would not tell them anything that would help them find the traitors.

Perhaps if it was done quietly... The traitors would almost certainly have performed certain actions which could have narrowed the pool of suspects... But now they will simply wait and bide their time before making any moves.

 

(wow okay this is going to feel weird, isn't it)

[Hoid Slayer He/Him]

Y’all have already yapped so much OMG

[Wahrheitswächter He/Him]

2 hours ago, The Unknown Character said:

 

Just addressing both of you at once

1. It gives us an idea of where we're at. It lets village loyalty manipulators know who they need to help. It might seem like it gives the elims a list of who to target, but tbh everyone's a good target to decrease loyalty for one reason or another. We have more village loyalty manipulations than the elims do. 

2. It sets a baseline. Started with losing loyalty or even close to losing loyalty would be like starting with only one elim. It's way too swingy and you can't start with one alignment that close to their win con. Then, when someone inevitably triggers it again, we can know who has been fudging their loyalty over time. 

3. It encourages villagers to not play with low loyalties and makes it harder for elims to use that as an excuse. If I'm explicitly going to depose, you can't use your action to make yourself lose loyalty. In fact, now all of you need to increase your loyalty with your action (unless you're already at +2 or -2) so that you can't be subtracted into a negative vote by an elim. 

I agree with Mint that especially the 3. Point is a horrendous idea. Because it stops the village from doing anything productive with hheir actions because your plan forces all of us to increase Loyalty

[Ascended Grubberfly He/Him]

3 hours ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

@coco.pudding

"Fine, we can talk tonight in the Gardens" Ralm answered. "But don't think you can fool me, I know what you did on Relu-Na, I saw it, with my own eyes." He turned away from his former apprentice, toward an old friend of his "Hello old friend" he greeted Dvalk "How are you?"

@Ascended Grubberfly

“Not nearly as old as you make me out to be.” Dvalk stifled a groan as his knees complained about his lie. “Nasty trouble, this Odium business. Politics were bad enough before the literal incarnation of anger showed up and storming ruined everything.”

Dvalk joined Ralm in a walk around the room, doing his best to keep is back straight and stride long. He tried to express a sense of strength whenever in a meeting. Cremlings could easily turn to Chasmfiends if they sensed opportunity. Dvalk would never provide that opportunity.

[The Unknown Character he/him]

1 hour ago, Mint11 said:

Chise narrowed her eyes at Fickle. It was odd that he thought the traitors wouldn't pull someone to their side, even if he hedged by acknowledging the improbability of it. Perhaps even because he hedged. This lot was not so spotless and there is no way Jo would not put the convert role in. There was something off about it, as if he was trying to pull their guard down.

 

"Have you all gone mad?" Chise was hoping to be more diplomatic, watch how things played out, but she could no longer hold her tongue. "Loathe as I am to admit it, there can be benefits to acting as if one if Odium's supporter, even if one is truly loyal, if you have certain abilities. Not to mention, if we all use our efforts to resist the traitors, no one will be able to use any abilities they have at all. Why handicap how loyalists choose to use those roles?"

This had just begun. A vote now would be like judging an artist by a painting they made while blindfolded. It may not carry much risk of deposition, but it would not tell them anything that would help them find the traitors.

Perhaps if it was done quietly... The traitors would almost certainly have performed certain actions which could have narrowed the pool of suspects... But now they will simply wait and bide their time before making any moves.

 

(wow okay this is going to feel weird, isn't it)

 

6 minutes ago, Wahrheitswächter said:

I agree with Mint that especially the 3. Point is a horrendous idea. Because it stops the village from doing anything productive with hheir actions because your plan forces all of us to increase Loyalty

Playing negative loyalty here is anti-village. I understand the desire to be more powerful, but come on. It's really only worth it for the Parliamentarian imo. Are you really going to complain about being forced to do something that is completely beneficial to the village? 

Here's another thing: Anyone who calls for a deposition after n1 is 100% an elim. That means that we have a choice between calling for a deposition tonight and never getting that info for sure. I'd rather have something than nothing when it's pretty low risk and has other positive benefits 

[Illwei]

@Jo and the Bush (took me a minute of wondering why i couldn't find "A Joe in the Bush" lol)

If players take no action, is the effect on their loyalty still activated? for example: 

Rebsk: if the rebsk takes no action does their loyalty still change based on the votes on them? 

Bonded: does their loyalty change only if they /see/ the person visit them, or if they get targeted by anything in general?

 

[Asriel He/Him]

8 hours ago, Illwei said:

I'm going to try to be a little less than last game, probabaly won't be so hard since I'm not really one for RP heavy games.

That said, Asriel.

Nothing Particularly Concerning in any sense, but the addition of the "this boon announcement makes him more suspicious" is reminiscent of an Elim feeling like they need to give more justification for an early vote than necessary.

The addition of the boon doesn't imply an Alignment one way or another, and picking from a pool of desired roles doesn't make him any more likely to be one alignment or another.  Straight up I believe it makes him more of a target than not for the Elims, knowing that he had a [minor] choice in what roles he might have gotten. Depending on who is on the Elim team and if they know Myst/Hoid well it could also be used to narrow down what roles they might have gotten. 

Either way the point is that the boon doesn't make him more suspicious for having received it, and this reads more like an attempt to grab something that may be needed if someone chooses to question the vote. 

 

@Illwei Both Hoid and Mystfall said pregame they wanted to be Elims. Is it such a stretch to assume that if given the chance they would skew the odds to shoot for the mavset-im role?

Edit: A role that is guaranteed to be an Elim?

Edited 12 hours ago by Asriel

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

8 minutes ago, Illwei said:

@Jo and the Bush (took me a minute of wondering why i couldn't find "A Joe in the Bush" lol)

If players take no action, is the effect on their loyalty still activated? for example: 

Rebsk: if the rebsk takes no action does their loyalty still change based on the votes on them? 

Bonded: does their loyalty change only if they /see/ the person visit them, or if they get targeted by anything in general?

 

No.

In general, if a role does not say (this doesn't take an action) it does not happen without the player taking an action. If the Bonded or Rebsk do not take their role actions, they will not change their own loyalty regardless of what happens to them.