LG112 - Pseudocycle Two: First Blood, Digitally

[|TJ| he/him]

54 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Also, I'm not really sure what's wrong exeing people back to back. It certainly adds a lot more sting to the pseudo-exe if we have a pattern of following it up with a matching meta-exe.

There's nothing wrong from a PtV PoV, but it would have the tendency to make the game quite boring, repetitive and quite frankly, it would stifle discussion if we just walked exe-to-exe. No one would feel enthused to pop in here to discuss anything if the exe is already a foregone conclusion. 

52 minutes ago, Myst said:

And based on the rest of your post you really imply that the person is a seeker. Especially since you say the claim is a village(I’m assuming you mean Psuedo villager and not meta villager) coinshot rather than just a coinshot.

I do not like the fact that you tried to analyse the source of the claim first. If that is your immediate reaction, it is elim-leaning, I'm sorry.

54 minutes ago, Myst said:

So first off I find it really weird that you don’t want to exe a M!elim, and you happen to have the perfect other target(a pseudo villager who has a NK who people have shown that they’re willing to vote) 

Would you rather I hold the info? Especially when we do not know who killed Xino and the fact the we exe'd Coder because of it?? And I have given you reasons why I do not want to exe Verdance. In addition, they do not have much of a thread-presence and our aim is to kill any p-villager, that's it. 

1 hour ago, Myst said:

In the case that the person who claimed to you is correct, why would you exe me? If I’m meta villager I’d want to keep me in order to help swing the game if needed. If I’m meta village you should exe me but that’s not what you seem to think, and again, we have another Elim to exe right now, so unless you can prove I’m an Elim better than Ver, why would you vote me?

Because it would mean you lied by omission and used it to get Coder exe'd. If there is claim going that Coder should be killed because he might have killed Xino, and if you've killed Xino, I absolutely think you should have come forward and claimed the kill. 

1 hour ago, Myst said:

Again, not much I can say against the claim other than it’s only half right. Whoever is telling you this is wrong, and is not for sure Elim, but is someone you should look at.

How can it be half right? The claim is that you are (pseudo) Village Coinshot. Either you are or you aren't. The fact that you could have killed Xino is my deduction. And in fact, I'm pretty sure everyone would agree with me that if you are a Coinshot, the likelihood that you killed Xino is way higher than the likelihood Coder killed him (Coder who was way less involved with the game that you were). 

The only way of me to verify the claimant's info is to kill you, and that is only possible in Pseudo-cycles. If you are not a Coinshot, I don't have a strong reason to ME-read you, and we can prevent you getting mis-exed in the meta-cycle (which is more important). This is the best pseudo-cycle to test this because Verdant's meta-exe seems to be all but confirmed and nothing extra really comes from their pseudo-exe. 

[coco.pudding she/they]

1 hour ago, Myst said:

edit: apparently this isn’t clear enough: I am not a coinshot

If you’re not a coinshot, what is your role?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

12 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

There's nothing wrong from a PtV PoV, but it would have the tendency to make the game quite boring, repetitive and quite frankly, it would stifle discussion if we just walked exe-to-exe. No one would feel enthused to pop in here to discuss anything if the exe is already a foregone conclusion. 

That's a good point.

I'm also a bit baffled at Myst's reaction here. Getting exed in this game doesn't really mean much, unless you are a Coinshot/Lurcher. Maybe we would be better off if someone Coinshot or elim-killed Verdance, and we exe Myst instead.

[|TJ| he/him]

1 hour ago, Myst said:

edit: apparently this isn’t clear enough: I am not a coinshot 

I didn't see this edit. This only makes it more confusing, how is the claim half-right then?? do you just mean that you are p-village lol?

[Verdance he/him]

53 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

That's a good point.

I'm also a bit baffled at Myst's reaction here. Getting exed in this game doesn't really mean much, unless you are a Coinshot/Lurcher. Maybe we would be better off if someone Coinshot or elim-killed Verdance, and we exe Myst instead.

Explain to me why you are changing your vote here. If you actually scanned me and saw that i am an elim, why would you not then vote against me

this makes zero sense to me and seems increasingly suspicious 

[___ He/Him]

5 minutes ago, Verdance said:

Explain to me why you are changing your vote here. If you actually scanned me and saw that i am an elim, why would you not then vote against me

this makes zero sense to me and seems increasingly suspicious 

Well remember this is the pseudogame

Like araris said we could just have a coinshot or elim or smth exe you, presuming they're not m-elims, and spend our time on trying to find other elims

Though ofc arais could be lying

But then your reactions don't make sense

[Verdance he/him]

1 minute ago, ___ said:

Well remember this is the pseudogame

Like araris said we could just have a coinshot or elim or smth exe you, presuming they're not m-elims, and spend our time on trying to find other elims

Though ofc arais could be lying

But then your reactions don't make sense

Counterpoint- my reactions never make sense

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

I missed all of last meta-cycle and probably will most of this cycle (traveling and vacation stuff), but from what I've gathered the double train on Coder seemed weird and I'll focus my attention on the people who started it. For now, my vote is still on Myst.

[Myst He/Him]

1 hour ago, coco.pudding said:

If you’re not a coinshot, what is your role?

Lurcher 

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

I didn't see this edit. This only makes it more confusing, how is the claim half-right then?? do you just mean that you are p-village lol?

Yeah, there were two parts of the claim, that I was coinshot and that I was pseudo village. Half right. 

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

There's nothing wrong from a PtV PoV, but it would have the tendency to make the game quite boring, repetitive and quite frankly, it would stifle discussion if we just walked exe-to-exe. No one would feel enthused to pop in here to discuss anything if the exe is already a foregone conclusion. 

I do not like the fact that you tried to analyse the source of the claim first. If that is your immediate reaction, it is elim-leaning, I'm sorry.

Would you rather I hold the info? Especially when we do not know who killed Xino and the fact the we exe'd Coder because of it?? And I have given you reasons why I do not want to exe Verdance. In addition, they do not have much of a thread-presence and our aim is to kill any p-villager, that's it. 

Because it would mean you lied by omission and used it to get Coder exe'd. If there is claim going that Coder should be killed because he might have killed Xino, and if you've killed Xino, I absolutely think you should have come forward and claimed the kill. 

How can it be half right? The claim is that you are (pseudo) Village Coinshot. Either you are or you aren't. The fact that you could have killed Xino is my deduction. And in fact, I'm pretty sure everyone would agree with me that if you are a Coinshot, the likelihood that you killed Xino is way higher than the likelihood Coder killed him (Coder who was way less involved with the game that you were). 

The only way of me to verify the claimant's info is to kill you, and that is only possible in Pseudo-cycles. If you are not a Coinshot, I don't have a strong reason to ME-read you, and we can prevent you getting mis-exed in the meta-cycle (which is more important). This is the best pseudo-cycle to test this because Verdant's meta-exe seems to be all but confirmed and nothing extra really comes from their pseudo-exe. 

What else can I say? As I said, the source is wrong, which means that either you’re lying or the person you’re talking to is lying.

And no, you should share the info, I just find it suspicious that it happens to be what it is, as well as the timing. 

I’ve said multiple times that I didn’t want to exe Coder. The only reason I voted him was to make sure we had 3 votes and an exe was happening. Also, your reason for not voting Ver is the exact same as my reason for not wanting to vote Coder, you can’t say you don’t want to vote Ver and then be suspicious of me for having the same reasoning the previous cycle 

Again, half right because I’m a Pseudo Village Lurcher

Nothing extra from Ver’s pseudo exe?? May I remind you that he’s Meta Elim, and the less Meta Elim’s in the game the better? I’d argue that voting Ver(an almost confirmed meta Elim who is also probably pseudo village(if he isn’t an Elim should’ve said so by now)) is a better use of an exe

11 minutes ago, Through the Living Hopper said:

I missed all of last meta-cycle and probably will most of this cycle (traveling and vacation stuff), but from what I've gathered the double train on Coder seemed weird and I'll focus my attention on the people who started it. For now, my vote is still on Myst.

Didn’t start the train in the meta cycle but okay.

Anyways, since people are voting me/going away from voting Ver, Verdance

[Verdance he/him]

Araris

[Myst He/Him]

1 hour ago, Araris Valerian said:

That's a good point.

I'm also a bit baffled at Myst's reaction here. Getting exed in this game doesn't really mean much, unless you are a Coinshot/Lurcher. Maybe we would be better off if someone Coinshot or elim-killed Verdance, and we exe Myst instead.

I like my role here more than I do my Meta role, this one’s more useful btw. Also, again, claim of Lurcher(not claiming my meta role)

Oh, and if it helps verify, I protected Striker C1.

Im probably going to protect myself tonight though, unless someone has a better argument for someone else

[|TJ| he/him]

3 minutes ago, Myst said:

Nothing extra from Ver’s pseudo exe?? May I remind you that he’s Meta Elim, and the less Meta Elim’s in the game the better? I’d argue that voting Ver(an almost confirmed meta Elim who is also probably pseudo village(if he isn’t an Elim should’ve said so by now)) is a better use of an exe

Nope, I'm sorry but clearly either you or the claimant is evil. We have to exe you this pseudo-cycle before giving the potential E!PseudoGM a chance to change your role and hence frame the claimer, to check the veracity of their claim accurately. 

We can exe Ver in the next pseudo-cycle if we need to, if we think they are as outed as we think they are. 

10 minutes ago, Myst said:

Im probably going to protect myself tonight though, unless someone has a better argument for someone else

Again, this doesn't make sense? Why would you waste your Lurch in that case? You'd be one of the last options for a kill this cycle. 

[Through the living Wahr He/Him]

VC:

Myst (4) Qian, TJ, Araris, Hopper

Verdance (4): Hoid, Coco, Myst, Kit Kat

Araris (2): mippo, Verdance

[Verdance he/him]

I don’t see the need to exe Myst

like at all

Araris claiming my role tho

[Myst He/Him]

1 minute ago, |TJ| said:

Nope, I'm sorry but clearly either you or the claimant is evil. We have to exe you this pseudo-cycle before giving the potential E!PseudoGM a chance to change your role and hence frame the claimer, to check the veracity of their claim accurately. 

We can exe Ver in the next pseudo-cycle if we need to, if we think they are as outed as we think they are

Well, unless you want to share who the seeker is?

And you’re either losing a Coinshot(if I’m lying) or a Lurcher(if you’re seeker is lying) either way that’s an important role. (Yes I’m assuming I’m meta village) 

Why Ver then? The same is true of me, you can exe anyone next cycle. I’m saying you should exe the almost confirmed meta Elim now

You’re trading an almost guaranteed meta Elim exe for a maybe(at best, a straight up no from my point of view) again, how does that make sense

3 minutes ago, Verdance said:

 

I don’t see the need to exe Myst

 

Not sure if this is gonna get me exed(a meta Elim saying I’m clear) or not(yall are gonna assume he’s causing chaos and clear me)

7 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Again, this doesn't make sense? Why would you waste your Lurch in that case? You'd be one of the last options for a kill this cycle. 

True enough. Who would you rather I protect then?

[Verdance he/him]

1 minute ago, Myst said:

Well, unless you want to share who the seeker is?

And you’re either losing a Coinshot(if I’m lying) or a Lurcher(if you’re seeker is lying) either way that’s an important role. (Yes I’m assuming I’m meta village) 

Why Ver then? The same is true of me, you can exe anyone next cycle. I’m saying you should exe the almost confirmed meta Elim now

You’re trading an almost guaranteed meta Elim exe for a maybe(at best, a straight up no from my point of view) again, how does that make sense

Not sure if this is gonna get me exed(a meta Elim saying I’m clear) or not(yall are gonna assume he’s causing chaos and clear me)

No actually your above logic

no one has posited that Araris is lying also???

[Myst He/Him]

1 minute ago, Verdance said:

No actually your above logic

no one has posited that Araris is lying also???

No, he’s confirmed village.

If you’re meta village, you said he was clear.

If you’re meta Elim, he just got his teammate exed for no reason whatsoever 

[___ He/Him]

Just now, Myst said:

No, he’s confirmed village.

If you’re meta village, you said he was clear.

If you’re meta Elim, he just got his teammate exed for no reason whatsoever 

Why?? I still don't understand that

[Qianweilian He/him]

Just now, ___ said:

Why?? I still don't understand that

Essentially, Verdance has essentially vouched for Araris. If Verdance is good, then it's very likely Araris is as well. If Verdance is bad, then Araris just stabbed his teammate in the back.

[___ He/Him]

Just now, Qianweilian said:

Essentially, Verdance has essentially vouched for Araris. If Verdance is good, then it's very likely Araris is as well. If Verdance is bad, then Araris just stabbed his teammate in the back.

But there's still that second case

Idk it doesn't feel that simple

[StrikerEZ he/him]

26 minutes ago, Myst said:

Oh, and if it helps verify, I protected Striker C1.

I can at least attest to the fact that, on PC1, Myst claimed to have a better use for their action than the one I was proposing. And I can confirm they were not on Scadrial, so it wasn’t the elim kill at least.

1 minute ago, Qianweilian said:

Essentially, Verdance has essentially vouched for Araris. If Verdance is good, then it's very likely Araris is as well. If Verdance is bad, then Araris just stabbed his teammate in the back.

Araris doing that isn’t impossible. Us older folks do like to perform gambits and generally cause chaos. It would imply that things went poorly for them in PC1, though, if they were willing to perform a desperate play like that. So I don’t really buy it. At this point, I think Araris’s and Verdance’s alignments are opposite. Maybe they’re both villagers and one of them is confused about something, but I doubt that.

I’m fine leaving the vote where it is for now.

[Qianweilian He/him]

3 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Araris doing that isn’t impossible. Us older folks do like to perform gambits and generally cause chaos. It would imply that things went poorly for them in PC1, though, if they were willing to perform a desperate play like that. So I don’t really buy it. At this point, I think Araris’s and Verdance’s alignments are opposite. Maybe they’re both villagers and one of them is confused about something, but I doubt that.

I suppose. If I were elim, I'd be far too nervous to try something like that, but I suppose it could work.

[CadCom he/him]

22 hours ago, Hoid Slayer said:

CadCom votes Myst, says they will explain later - @CadCom care to explain now?

I did indeed promise to do so. So I just did a re-read, and I don't remember what part of Myst's logic I didn't like prior to their vote for themselves. 

I remember that I didn't like the "My best interest"phrasing. If the meta-game is the game we really want to win, the best thing would be to keep as many villagers in that game as possible. (Of course, trying to win the pseudo-game is also important) 

I got very E/E vibes off the whole Myst/Hoid interaction that caused Myst to return to voting Coder too. Which I thought even before the discussion of said event occurred earlier in this thread. 

Re-reading Meta-day 1, I'm more suspicious of ___ But I can't tell whether I'm suspicious of them in the meta-game or the pseudo game. Nor do I know what I should do with that suspicion, except monitor it for now. 

I clearly need to re-read the rules, which I haven't fully read since the game started. 
BRB
OK I'm back. 
Ok. So My thoughts are with the pseudo cycle going first, the discussion in the metacycle were focused on the results of the pseudocycle. And therefore exing someone in the metacycle for their behavior in the pseudo-cycle should be based off whether we can reasonably assume that the actions or behavior are errant enough from normal play to warrant believing they are either trying to throw the game for their respective side. Unfortunately we don't know their relevant side in the pseudogame from any reveal in the meta. I think we reasonably need a meta-elim to die to determine how it appeared they were acting in the pseudogame before we can guess how they all want the Pseudo game to go. 

Ok. I think after thinking through that, which everyone else has probably already thought through at this point (Curse my late start) I am going to temporarily go back to my vote on Myst. As I believe their language of "My best interest" indicates they may be pseudo village, but meta-elim. That puts @Hoid Slayeras a possible meta-elim team mate, and keeping notice on @___ as someone I'm suspicious of. 

Pre-post edit: (I haven't actually posted yet) I just realized We are in a pseudo-cycle, and last cycle was a meta-cycle. This is so confusing keeping track of cycles. That means maybe Myst is a pseudo-elim, but a Meta-villager. So clearing them as a meta-villager is good for their pseudo wincon. (somehow, even though it isn't good for their real win-con of the meta game. I see the flaw, in my logic, please don't point it out.) 

Ok, with that, if we are in a pseudo-cycle, and since I still don't know the meta-elim prediction, nor how the village and elims have been performing over the last few years (Has red or green been overperforming, or has it been fairly even?)@anyone?) I think the best interest for the village would be to try to win the pseudo-game, allowing us to move on to just the metagame quicker maybe?

So with that, My analysis stays the same, oops Myst. Weird how my logic moves me back to the same person, but for completely different reasons, and on a completely different phase of the game. Hoidslayer, I'm still suspicious of you as being a potential team mate. I hope you don't mind being put on notice of someone so insubstantial and so far inactive. (Is it ironic that your nickname in SE is just Hoid, whereas your full username is Hoidslayer, indicating the intent to kill hoid, indicating you are not Hoid? But it would also be a very Hoid-esque thing to do to feign being your own would-be assassin)

[|TJ| he/him]

19 minutes ago, Myst said:

Well, unless you want to share who the seeker is?

Nope, there's no point before your flip. 

20 minutes ago, Myst said:

And you’re either losing a Coinshot(if I’m lying) or a Lurcher(if you’re seeker is lying) either way that’s an important role. (Yes I’m assuming I’m meta village) 

What? You flipping Coinshot would not be losing an important role at all because it would mean you lied about your role and you lied about not killing Xino which means that you are close to conf. meta evil.  

13 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

I can at least attest to the fact that, on PC1, Myst claimed to have a better use for their action than the one I was proposing. And I can confirm they were not on Scadrial, so it wasn’t the elim kill at least.

To add to my point, meta-elim pseudo-village Coinshot shooting someone is also most definitely a better use for their action than anything you could have proposed :P. 

32 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

Nope, I'm sorry but clearly either you or the claimant is evil. We have to exe you this pseudo-cycle before giving the potential E!PseudoGM a chance to change your role and hence frame the claimer, to check the veracity of their claim accurately. 

Guys, this is my biggest point. We can exe Verdance any time we want, but we have to exe Myst NOW because one of Myst/claimer is lying and is evil, and the only way to figure out who is lying is this cycle before PseudoGM muddies the water by changing roles.

We exe Myst - if Myst flips Coinshot, he is meta-evil; if he's Lurcher then claimer is evil and Myst is conf. meta-village. He would be un-exeable in the meta-game. So pretending to not see or understand this is very suspicious. 

Verdance will always be there, because their suspicion is not attached to their role, Myst's is. 

[Qianweilian He/him]

3 minutes ago, |TJ| said:

To add to my point, meta-elim pseudo-village Coinshot shooting someone is also most definitely a better use for their action than anything you could have proposed :P.

Honestly, I'm glad we caught this. A melim coinshot would be very scary.

Also, GMs, I just got an idea for future games. Instead of having two layers, meta and pseudo, we play with three, the meta-game (possibly on the shard or the internet as a whole), the pseudogame, and the mockgame.