Long Game 104: The Flame of Tar Valon

[The Wandering Wizard he/him]

Yeah I don't really like how many people have been jumping on my Kas vote, which was mostly made as a joke and to see how he responded.

Kas

Not liking the vibes I'm getting from KelsierApologist but I am often wrong and can be talked down so we'll see.

[Terrisman]

2 hours ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

Sorry Sart, I forgot that you were Sitter! I change my vote to Terrisman.

I’ma sitter too 

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

1 hour ago, Aeternum said:

I can't help but read this as a perspective slip lol. Townies tend to be paranoid. Very paranoid. Especially in a doc - you've essentially got a difference check (e/v) in your Ajah a lot of the time since there are likely 4-5 elims, and there are 6 teams of 3, insert statistics or something here. It is very natural to be paranoid of your Ajah buddies lol (I'm currently concerned about mine, because I lean town on one but do not on the other, and now have to consider if this is a world where there are three town in an Ajah together, or if the one I'm not townleaning is potentially likely an elim because I find the other one towny).

I'm super used to trusting everyone I'm in a Doc with. I have to struggle to remind myself that my doc friends might be Black Ajah.

1 hour ago, Terrisman said:

Ok getting back to the sitters the way my vote went was I didn’t really want it but didn’t trust the two I was with so I said I would allow it to get to random decision. One of the people in my ajah didn’t really have much to say and the other said he’d rather vote for me than let it go random because then there is nothing to get an alignment read off of. So I let myself get voted because I was still suspicious of him

Interesting! Thank you Terrisman, that confirms my suspicion. I am the only Sitter who specifically tried and succeed to become a Sitter. Everyone else either tried and got randed, or didn't try and got randed. I'm not sure what that means. I guess I'm leaning towards TUF being the most likely Sitter to be a Black Ajah based solely on how they became Sitter, but I'm more suspicious in that regard, so, idk. I am suspicious of TUF for apparently sacrificing Animal Crackers? (For real though, that felt like a weird time to post that. and it did increase my suspicions of him)

I am suspicious of this sudden Kasimir train. I don't have any suspicion of him, I'm expecting him to turn out to be village, and I'm also expecting him to get night-killed early on TBH. Of the 4 people who have voted on Kas, Wandering Wizard didn't give any semblance of a reason, but they're also the first one to vote on Kas. KelsierApologist also didn't have a reason, and turned it into a full on brigade, so, can I ask why you decided to make there be a clear leader in votes, if you weren't suspicious of him? Why not vote on another candidate who had 1 vote, to increase the number of people at risk? Historically, we get better data when there are multiple people at risk of execution.
Plus, she apologizes for a racist murderer. Anyone who thinks Kelsier is good is suspicious. =P
Vote Count:

Aeternum(1): Kasimir
KelsierApologist(2): Wandering Wizard, A Jo in the Bush
xxGaea(2): Sart, Terrisman
Kasimir(3):  TwinStorm, BridgeBoi, KelsierApologist
Mark IV(1): xxGaea
TwinStorm(1): Aeternum
STINK(1): Teldris Anuar

EDIT: Ninja'd by Wandering Wizard, kinda glad I hadn't voted for him like I had originally been think of doing.

Edited March 23, 2025 by A Jo in the Bush

[OoklaApologist She/her]

15 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

… I don’t like a D1 Kas exe. Even if this game is one with limited trust. I trust my docmates, as far as I can throw them, and I can throw them much further than some others.

Polly and TwinStorm, are you docmates?

Yep!

[Ashbringer he/him]

10 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

Why not vote on another candidate who had 1 vote, to increase the number of people at risk? Historically, we get better data when there are multiple people at risk of execution.
Plus, she apologizes for a racist murderer. Anyone who thinks Kelsier is good is suspicious. =P
Vote Count:

Aeternum(1): Kasimir
KelsierApologist(2): Wandering Wizard, A Jo in the Bush
xxGaea(2): Sart, Terrisman
Kasimir(3):  TwinStorm, BridgeBoi, KelsierApologist
Mark IV(1): xxGaea
TwinStorm(1): Aeternum
STINK(1): Teldris Anuar

Hmm… fair point.

Counterpoint: Drake.

[Through the Living Hopper He/Him]

20 minutes ago, Terrisman said:

I’ma sitter too 

Statistically, this shouldn't be happening! Sorry Terrisman. I vote for Ashbringer. You're trying to get us to vote for the people who had one vote.

[Aeternum]

Would vote between TwinStorm or KelsierApologist right now. That reads post slightly pinged me, but sometimes that's just the way newer ish players write readlists and I am uh, not known for my ability to read new players.

TwinStorm did an incredibly wolfy thing taking Gaea's read and using it as a reason to push Kas, and I am much more concerned about that right now.

Will say TwinStorm/KelsierApologist being doc friends does make me a little less concerned in a way I can't articulate (it's idk, raising the chances of two town together rather than one being an elim jumping on the other's reasoning - but both are already bandwagoning off of someone else's push so it's not much of a change).

Did you talk about your suspicions together in private?

[OoklaApologist She/her]

10 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

KelsierApologist also didn't have a reason

I have a reason. I went into this, and I thought to myself that I would try not to hedge my reads under stress, but that’s what I’m doing right now.

I admit, this is a weak reason. I thought Kas being suspicious of TUF because he was elected a sitter is a little strange. Kas’ suspicion was odd to me because it hinged on the idea that TUF wasn’t easily clearable, a fact that I didn’t know about and neither would a majority new player game. 

I guess sticking to my guns is an ideal for another time. I don’t know the difference between v! and e!kas, and I admit y’all are more experienced. It’s getting late, and I’ll decide on a new opinion tomorrow. 

Kasimir

1 minute ago, Aeternum said:

Did you talk about your suspicions together in private

No, I was surprised when he had similar ideas to me lol

[Ashbringer he/him]

5 minutes ago, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

Statistically, this shouldn't be happening! Sorry Terrisman. I vote for Ashbringer. You're trying to get us to vote for the people who had one vote.

Hey, I also have one vote! 

But also - Gaea voted for Drake and immediately got voted by Sart. I vote Drake and immediately get voted by you. Whoever voted Drake earlier (Joe?) also had their vote vanish.

Meanwhile Drake has said nothing this turn.

I find that quite interesting.

[OoklaApologist She/her]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

Hey, I also have one vote! 

But also - Gaea voted for Drake and immediately got voted by Sart. I vote Drake and immediately get voted by you. Whoever voted Drake earlier (Joe?) also had their vote vanish.

Meanwhile Drake has said nothing this turn.

I find that quite interesting.

Drake is the ultimate puppetmaster

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

26 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

I am suspicious of TUF for apparently sacrificing Animal Crackers? (For real though, that felt like a weird time to post that.

Gaea explicitly voted for a tie, so it seemed reasonable to start getting the gods of Luck and Chance on our side. 

[TwinStorm He/Him]

1 hour ago, KelsierApologist said:

Twinstorm, stop trusting me. I don’t trust you and it’s making me feel bad

Analysis post time. 

I’m going to hedge my bets on this, I am as of now not capable of awesome big-brain reads, but I’ll try my hand at some.

The Wandering Wizard - Evelyn Rosemary

Null read right now. He’s just having fun in the thread. V-read, because I love Princess Bride references.

TwinStorm - Melian

My Ajah-mate. I don’t have any great insight into his posts in our doc. Mostly games and bee movie discussion. Gut read as V, but nothing to back it up.

Ashbringer

Originator of my partner-claiming idea. Slight v-read for now

Kasimir - Kamil Lovric

Slight e read on you. Kas, I feel your suspicion on TUF’s ajah-mates not declining to elect him based on knowledge that new players wouldn’t have (and I didn’t have before this) is a little bit wolfy 

ThatOneWorldhopper - Alkarii Tay'TerTüne

Asking your questions in the shard seems v. Not a new insight , I know.

Mark IV

Also shares my One Opinion of the cycle. Pretty null though

Teldris Anuar - Tesan Alruddin

I really don’t know about you. Slight v, as I expect active elims

STINK - Rasmuht

How did you sleep?

xxGaea - Altea O’Canavan, aka Nameless Whisper

Hi Gaea! You seem to be a devout worshipper of RNGsus. You’re also luckier than me, so I’m going to let you do what you will on that

I don’t have anyone leaning really e right now, but I do want to put in a bit of a vote, so Kasimir

no, I get that, but I'd prefer to have one person I trust than just no one, I'll trust you, even if its not mutual

35 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

… I don’t like a D1 Kas exe. Even if this game is one with limited trust. I trust my docmates, as far as I can throw them, and I can throw them much further than some others.

Polly and TwinStorm, are you docmates?

yeah

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

Vote Count:

Aeternum(1): Kasimir
KelsierApologist(1): Wandering Wizard,
xxGaea(2): Sart, Terrisman
Kasimir(2):  TwinStorm, BridgeBoi
Mark IV(1): xxGaea
TwinStorm(1): Aeternum
STINK(1): Teldris Anuar
Ashbringer(1): ThatOneWorldhopper
Drake Marshall(2): Ashbringer, A Jo in the Bush

 

27 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Hey, I also have one vote! 

But also - Gaea voted for Drake and immediately got voted by Sart. I vote Drake and immediately get voted by you. Whoever voted Drake earlier (Joe?) also had their vote vanish.

Meanwhile Drake has said nothing this turn.

I find that quite interesting.

Well now I'm back to voting for Drake Marshall like I was earlier, since Wandering Wizard and KelsierApologist have both explained their reasoning for voting for Kasimir, and I found both of those reasonings to be Adequate. I think at this point I would comfortably vote on Drake, Twin, Mark, or Aeternum. I'll try to figure out why those are my sus reads in the morning. It's already past my bed time and I expect I'll still be up for another hour at least, because I'm terrible at going to bed on time. Does anyone even check for White Tet anymore?

24 minutes ago, The Unknown Flame said:

Gaea explicitly voted for a tie, so it seemed reasonable to start getting the gods of Luck and Chance on our side. 

Ohh, that makes more sense now. I had no hecking idea what you were doing.

[Terrisman]

9 hours ago, KelsierApologist said:

I have a reason. I went into this, and I thought to myself that I would try not to hedge my reads under stress, but that’s what I’m doing right now.

I admit, this is a weak reason. I thought Kas being suspicious of TUF because he was elected a sitter is a little strange. Kas’ suspicion was odd to me because it hinged on the idea that TUF wasn’t easily clearable, a fact that I didn’t know about and neither would a majority new player game. 

I guess sticking to my guns is an ideal for another time. I don’t know the difference between v! and e!kas, and I admit y’all are more experienced. It’s getting late, and I’ll decide on a new opinion tomorrow. 

Kasimir

No, I was surprised when he had similar ideas to me lol

KelsierApologist (Polly?) is starting to look pretty suspicious to me. Getting called out for bandwagoning Kasimir (don’t know what the correct game term is) and then immediately backing off just seems a little off. I’m not sure what my read on xxGaea was, so for now I think I’ll change my vote to KelsierApologist.

On 3/22/2025 at 7:08 AM, Steeldancer said:

Okay, I see your not vote, and I raise you a question Kasimir. 
Why in the ever living heck would you speculate there were up to 6 elims at the beginning of the game???? Under what circumstances would that even be remotely balanced given the rule set, and you are more than experienced enough to know that having a third of the players in this game be elims would be inherently unbalanced. I can't say for sure whether its elim behavior to overinflate team numbers, or perhaps you just didn't understand the rules well or their implications. Still, I'd like to hear better reasoning as to why you're suspicious of me and why you speculated such a high number for the ceiling of the elim team. 
I'm currently running on the theory that there are 3, maybe 4 elims. 
Edit: nah strike that, 3 is too low. I'm guessing 4. Feels right given 6 not-thugs, and 6 functioning sub-factions. I'm also guessing, though this is a bit more speculative, that they're in 3 documents and have a majority in exactly one. 
Another edit: I think Jo's turn analysis makes it pretty clear that 6 would be too large. I don't think it would be possible to win if there were 6. The only win condition the village has is to kill all the elims, while the elims have such lovely options as:
1. Outnumber us
2. Get one of their own to Amyrlin
3. Oust a village Amyrlin
This gives the elims a lot more oomph than they would have in a normal game, even if they had individual powers. 6 would also be enough to infiltrate every document, or have a majority in multiple, which seems way too strong. 5 is definitely an upper limit, and even that seems high given the flexibility the elims have in terms of win condition. No, it's gotta be 4. And I'm betting at least one sitter is a black ajah. 

This to me also seems like an overreaction to bring the heat onto Kas

 

edit: to bold my vote

Edited March 23, 2025 by Terrisman

[Terrisman]

1 hour ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

I'm super used to trusting everyone I'm in a Doc with. I have to struggle to remind myself that my doc friends might be Black Ajah.

Interesting! Thank you Terrisman, that confirms my suspicion. I am the only Sitter who specifically tried and succeed to become a Sitter. Everyone else either tried and got randed, or didn't try and got randed. I'm not sure what that means. I guess I'm leaning towards TUF being the most likely Sitter to be a Black Ajah based solely on how they became Sitter, but I'm more suspicious in that regard, so, idk. I am suspicious of TUF for apparently sacrificing Animal Crackers? (For real though, that felt like a weird time to post that. and it did increase my suspicions of him)

I am suspicious of this sudden Kasimir train. I don't have any suspicion of him, I'm expecting him to turn out to be village, and I'm also expecting him to get night-killed early on TBH. Of the 4 people who have voted on Kas, Wandering Wizard didn't give any semblance of a reason, but they're also the first one to vote on Kas. KelsierApologist also didn't have a reason, and turned it into a full on brigade, so, can I ask why you decided to make there be a clear leader in votes, if you weren't suspicious of him? Why not vote on another candidate who had 1 vote, to increase the number of people at risk? Historically, we get better data when there are multiple people at risk of execution.
Plus, she apologizes for a racist murderer. Anyone who thinks Kelsier is good is suspicious. =P
Vote Count:

Aeternum(1): Kasimir
KelsierApologist(2): Wandering Wizard, A Jo in the Bush
xxGaea(2): Sart, Terrisman
Kasimir(3):  TwinStorm, BridgeBoi, KelsierApologist
Mark IV(1): xxGaea
TwinStorm(1): Aeternum
STINK(1): Teldris Anuar

EDIT: Ninja'd by Wandering Wizard, kinda glad I hadn't voted for him like I had originally been think of doing.

What’s interesting is that I would’ve thought the BA would try to get as many sitters as possible. From the fact that none of the sitters seem to have really campaigned for the position it seems unlikely that they did or there would have been more people who tried and didn’t become sitters. If that’s the case, it would suggest that the BA is probably going with a different strategy, less about winning the Amyrlin Seat and more likely either deposing one or just eliminating the rest of us. Possibly they thought the village would look out for the sitters more and figured the easiest way to blend in is to stay outside of the sitters. Otherwise it is just confusing to me why it seems we had so many passive nominations. 

[|TJ| he/him]

7 hours ago, Mark IV said:

(Tagging GMs for questions is still a thing, right? )

The Amrylin election and deposition is to be voted on by all the players alive in game, right? The rules do say "player" but I just want to double check. Because I was under the impression it was only the Hall of the Tower (i.e. the sitters) based on the books. My fault, I admit, but I just want to confirm. 

(Yes :P)

And yes. 

For example - 

As someone will be eliminated during the day, we head to Night 1 with 17 players and all of them will be able to vote for the Amyrlin Seat Election 

7 hours ago, Mark IV said:

@|TJ| Will the Amyrlin election happen through public voting? Or will the votes be private?

Yes, same as the Day votes, it will happen in-thread. 

5 hours ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

@|TJ| Does Sart's Vote on Experience translate into a vote on Aeternum?

Nope. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

11 hours ago, Sart said:

Are you playing to win, or are you playing not to lose? Our win condition, our only win condition, is to eliminate all Black Ajah. It does not matter whether they are Sitters or not. In my mind, this election is a distraction. Does anyone among us believe that any candidate will receive a majority vote any time soon? One of our six candidates would have to accumulate nine votes. That's not going to happen any time soon. Quite frankly, I don't want the Seat to be elected. Period. What benefit does it give us? We receive a single cycle where we have a confirmed good player with an extra vote. The Black Ajah though? They get several opportunities to win outright. And even if we successfully avoid the worst case, they get a free kill on the Seat as they get removed. My goal for the election is to prolong it as long as possible. I would suggest outright ties every cycle, but I find that unrealistic. As we nominate, there will naturally be a close race. Untrustworthy Sitters will be Stilled, moving them into the pool of suspects. This battle, in the day, is our only way to win.

You ask how I was elected. Let me be clear. It was pure inactivity. Only one person actually voted, and I presume they voted for me because I rambled for a bit in the doc at the start of the Night. There was tentative discussion of going to random chance, but I missed rollover and did not vote. Perhaps a poor way to be elected, but I'm trying to make the most of it.

 

Hm, interesting. I will note the rules are designed to essentially force us into eventually choosing an Amyrlin, but I'll freely admit I didn't consider the option of just trying to avoid the mechanic entirely to avoid an elim win. And thanks for explaining what happened, lol. Consider my suspicion of you retracted for now. 
ALSO HAVE I MENTIONED I DON'T LIKE TIES

Never mind the tie is gone ignore me

1 hour ago, Terrisman said:

This to me also seems like an overreaction to bring the heat onto Kas

Hm, yes, the old "Steeldancer is overreacting" thing. Let me let you in on a secret:  I'm always dramatic. This is not alignment indicative, it's mostly activity indicative. I get excited about stuff and I get dramatic when I get excited, so take it more as I'm actually invested in this game, which I would think is a good thing. I've been exed many times in the past for making a slightly bigger deal of things than perhaps they needed to be, I think its part of my charm and standard playstyle. 
Also, I wasn't trying to bring heat on Kas. I was trying to pressure him to see how he responded. My interpretation of his response? Not necessarily suspicious enough for me to vote on (for now, anyway). Same with Sart. This game is all about pushing people to see how they respond. I just tend to be the dramatic type lol.

Anyway, back to Sarts proposal. I will admit part of me sort of dislikes trying to ignore game mechanics deliberately? Though that's coming from GM!Steel, I usually put mechanics in games because I want them to be used. Though I will also agree that the village Amyrlin is fundamentally weak. Seeing all the documents is nice and all, as is having a double vote, but given the massive risk of losing, and then they just leave the game regardless is weak. Seems like its not enough oomph to warrant the risk of losing. By ignoring the mechanic entirely, we basically turn the game back into a normal game of SE, just with 6 known thugs. If my earlier theory is correct, and the elim team is smaller to compensate for their multiple win conditions, this could make a village win much, much easier. As for me, the only reason I'd want to be Amyrlin is because it would be even funnier than John running the whole White Ajah. Beyond the RP incentive, and keeping an elim out of it, it doesn't seem very attractive to me personally. 

[|TJ| he/him]

Vote Count: 

KelsierApologist (2): The Wandering Wizard, Terrisman
Kasimir (2): TwinStorm, BridgeBoi
DrakeMarshall (2): Ashbringer, Joe
TwinStorm (1): Aeternum
Aeternum (1): Kasimir
Ashbringer (1): ThatOneWorldhopper
Mark IV (1): xxGaea
STINK (1): Teldris Anuar
xxGaea (1): Sart

I understand this game can be confusing and possibly a bit overwhelming, especially to new players. To reiterate, you can ask me any questions in the GM PM at any point in the game and I will try my best to solve all your doubts.  

Little under 14 hours to go!

[Kasimir he/him]

Unfortunately, I lost my post, so I'm going to need to come back and slowly reconstruct it, which is a tad annoying.

Linking to the entire post for length reasons. I generally agree with this take (I'll elaborate later when citing something Mark says) but also it makes me nervous because Sart's Village playstyle and my Village playstyle are generally orthogonal and it's when we both agree with each other that Sart is usually E, apart from that TJ Infernal Affairs game but that game was just super weird. (I don't know/think we have this relation when I'm E to Sart's V, but I guess we'll find out one day.)

14 hours ago, The Unknown Flame said:

I mean, do you really think I have a very high chance of being elected? I'm fully expecting to be stilled.

Why does that matter? I'm asking about the perspective of the players voting for you on N0. I spent N0 trying to vote for someone I thought was Village. I don't care if they're stillable, that's tempo lost as they can't be voted or pressured until they're stilled. And Stilling is Village-level, voting for a Sitter is Ajah-level. One is appreciably more controllable than the other because you're at the mercy of multiple things, including the Village finding other Sitters more sus.

14 hours ago, The Unknown Flame said:

I'm curious why you think me being hard to read is well known? I am, and you pretty much know the trick of it, but I don't think it's particularly well known. Especially considering the returning and new player heavy make up of this game.

The only returning player I'd expect not to know your playstyle in this game is Gaea. Mark has played with E!you before, as has Experience (though subbed out now), Drake, Wiz, STINK etc.  For new players, Polly backreads games, including one with E!you (LG101), so I'm going to assume she also knows it. I'll note that TwinStorm also played with E!you in LG103, though you got D1ed that game. That's a decent chunk of the game's population right there. If you like, we can adjust the claim for the newer players: given the opacity of your usual playstyle, I'm surprised that new players in particular, who struggle to generate reads, can feel confident in just assuming you're Village - do you not find that curious?

11 hours ago, Mark IV said:

Okay, I'm still mildly confused - Is KelsierApologist Polly ? 

Yeah. She first asked us to call her Polly in Steel's Olympics MR and has been using it ever since.

11 hours ago, Mark IV said:

Re Terris: Are you saying you had Terris on a sus read but might revise that opinion based on a specific post from last turn

Yeah. Basically I didn't really like this post from Terris:

On 3/21/2025 at 11:46 AM, Terrisman said:

Nobody has yet given me a good explanation why claiming would be beneficial . Do you have reason why you think we should do this?

To me, the call for a good explanation stood out because Drake and I had both made arguments as to why some sense of who was in an Ajah together was helpful. This suggested to me that Terris was artificially setting a very high bar of 'good', which is usually a thing new player Elims do more - they don't really know how to sus or to object to something so they just position themselves against a high bar of evidence. I believe I said as much last Night, too. However, Terris had this later post which I liked:

It's definitely pretty cheap and easily replicated, but it feels like a Village mindset, and a bit consistent with Terris's professed wariness of own Ajah-mates. Hence my saying I was conflicted on my Terris read.

11 hours ago, Mark IV said:

Finally, could you (re?)elaborate on your village leans on Drake and Worldhopper? I didn't really see you interact much with Hopper last turn except for a few clarifications and you didn't really agree with Drake much about anything game-related. Is your opinion of Drake based on behaviour rather than specific content? 

I did mention the Drake read basis both last cycle and in a response to Jo this cycle, c'mon bro

Hopper felt pretty alone in the thread, but also happy to be there. That's a cheap N0 read but one I'm running with for now:

On 3/20/2025 at 9:14 AM, ThatOneWorldhopper said:

Is there special formatting for in and out of game? I thought I read that somewhere. 

First game! I'm so excited that it finally started!

You can argue it's performative (given Hopper could ask in Ajah) but it seemed kind of consistent with how Hopper's been playing and I liked the energy of the post, it's good energy. I'd probably expect something a bit more low-key from a first-time Elim, but I also generally suck at raw post/vibe analysis.

For Drake, it's back to what I said here:

On 3/22/2025 at 5:07 PM, Kasimir said:

This is a misread of what I said, though I don't feel that E!you would do that on purpose. I said that the Elims were likely, if they engaged at all, to overcompensate by camping heavily in what they felt was intuitively the Village take here, i.e. don't claim, don't give the Elims everything. Sincere Villagers who think things through are more likely to endorse counterintuitive viewpoints - Elims don't want to take cheap heat, so don't want to go there.

I think an Elim seeking to gain cheap Village cred in response to my question intuitively goes for the 'proper' Village line: caution, the Elims get nothing because they deserve nothing  Drake directly chose the response more likely to gain heat, and I'm fine giving him credit for that. It's balanced by the fact that Drake as a player just is more comfortable with risk than most, so I could also see that coming from E!Drake. However, V!Drake feels ok to me as a read for now without opening the E!Drake layer, and I'm comfortable enough in my ability to bro read Drake that I feel I'll be able to correct that read in decent time if I'm actually wrong. (We play together on a different mafia server as well so he's probably the one player in this game I have especial confidence in my ability to read.)

14 hours ago, TwinStorm said:

Fair, that makes sense.

Side-thing but TwinStorm yo-yoing here is kinda whack ngl.

11 hours ago, Mark IV said:

What do other people think about dismantling the Amyrlin/Sitter mechanics? I'm not too sure TJ would be too happy about it  (If we could even pull it off )

Tbh this is why the game went through like five different iterations with Drake, TJ, me, and TUN trying to patch it. Some of it is the wincon confusion wrt Village needing or not needing to elect an Amrylin. In one iteration, the Amrylin had three Seeker scans, etc. The bottom line is TUN and I both warned that the Village might just decide the best course of action is not to elect an Amrylin but one way or another, the ruleset as it currently is is engineered to force the Village to do so eventually, if only because of the Stillings, and the fact an Amrylin is de facto elected once we're down to I think two Sitters left. 

Minimally, since we are forced to elect, I do think we should at least control the Sitter pool by ensuring the most suspicious Sitters are Stilled each Night so that even if the Amrylin is only elected when we can no longer delay, we aren't left with Suspicous McSusface as Amrylin because we didn't pay enough attention to the Sitter pool. Alongside the fact we...naturally want to exe pressure/actually exe sus Sitters!

Anyway TJ just thought players would be excited to get to elect an Amrylin so I guess TUN and I shrug here and say "I told you so"  But the game's not designed to break regardless, even if players choose to delay into elections, and between overtuning the Amrylin and undertuning, undertuning is just better and less prone to breaking.

10 hours ago, Aeternum said:

this from TwinStorm is generally wolfy (elim-y?) imo.

I don't disagree but suspect I'm coming to this from different reasons than Aet. Mostly to do with the fact that Storm is playing a lot more conventional this game compared to say, LG103 or AG11. It's true that Storm has already started to make that shift in QF74, but that's a lot deeper than usual and it makes me wonder if an Elim doc interaction is why Storm is going there. Feelsbad to sus on the basis of improving play though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

9 hours ago, Sart said:

Sartala stopped in her tracks. Altea's words sent alarm bells ringing in her head. Why tie the vote this early? She acknowledged that it would change, then why do it? There was no logic behind it, other than a minor pressure from Emmett. And if they found Mark IV and Kas more suspicious, why not vote for one of them? Try to get the ball rolling, and profit from the tide. And then to top it off, Altea shared information, because it seemed like everyone else was doing it? That felt like trying to blend in. She didn't want to penalize people from expressing their opinion and voting, but this seemed off. xxGaea

I kind of agree with this and kind of don't. Ties mid-cycle are always good because they force reactions, but Sart is also not wrong that saying it'll change eases the pressure, and also, vote for your susses. So I'm kinda mixed because I agree with this, but again, when I'm V and agree with Sart, it's usually E Sart rather than V Sart. We're just fire and water as Villagers lol.

8 hours ago, TwinStorm said:

ultimately, I think Kas seems very off, and the tone of his posts strike me as weird, beating around the bush a lot, so I think I have to go with you, unless something major happens.

Could this be any more "struggling to form suspicions"?  

8 hours ago, Teldris Anuar said:

I can confirm that i share an ajah with xxGaea and that they did not attempt to become a sitter.

STINK

I like the spirit of the vote. STINK should definitely not be allowed to slip under the radar - it's his superpower as an Elim because people tend to forget about him. 

8 hours ago, Aeternum said:

tbf I've never seen e!Kas and don't know his range).

This is, incidentally, something that makes me sus of TUN because TUN is very aware of my E!range  

8 hours ago, TwinStorm said:

in my (albeit limited) experience, its a very e!mentality to assume villagers don't trust each other, but my experience finds the opposite, players love to find 2 or 3 people who they trust completely, which seems even more likely to occur when forcibly grouped together in docs

If you believe your experience is limited and I have some experience, why assume you are then correct that it is E!mentality rather than my just having played more games than you did?

j/k I'm just trolling  

I'd say Storm is correct here that players like to trust more than they should, but in general that's not the intuitive mindset - they start from suspicion, and then move towards trust, sometimes faster than they should, which is ah, the infamous bird PM Steel mentioned.

Either way, it doesn't really interact with my question because my question is framed from the perspective of what a Villager should be doing, rather than what the Villager may be actually doing.

Tbh, I feel like Polly is also struggling to formulate E reads here, and I think that's concerning to me and makes me wonder about TMI leak. There's a bit of a shift from last game, but also, last game was postcapped and I found about three Polly posts to go off so.

6 hours ago, The Wandering Wizard said:

Yeah I don't really like how many people have been jumping on my Kas vote, which was mostly made as a joke and to see how he responded.

Expecting me to react to a vote on me? C'mon, you gotta be kidding me

6 hours ago, KelsierApologist said:

Kas’ suspicion was odd to me because it hinged on the idea that TUF wasn’t easily clearable, a fact that I didn’t know about and neither would a majority new player game. 

You...read LG101. And TwinStorm has played with E!TUN before. Of the entire playerlist, only BridgeBoi, Terris, Teldris, Jo, Hopper, and Gaea could be reasonably expected not to know how E!TUN behaves. (The fact you say you don't know is not reasonably something I'd assume given knowledge you read LG101 prior to you saying this.) That's 1/3 of the game. It isn't even a majority new player game!

If it turns out TUN is Ajah-mates with Polly and Storm, this will probably explain it in a less sus way, but if TUN isn't, but is Ajah-mates with two newer players, I almost think this is a potential Elim slip because why the hell would I assume, in a non-majority new player game, that TUN's Ajah-mates would be specifically new and thus unaware of how TUN plays? Given the game comp, it feels like Polly is assuming I'd know that Ajah's comp, but how would I know it unless I was Black Ajah with a teammate in TUN's Ajah? (If I'm in TUN's Ajah, then this being sus shouldn't even arise from V!Polly's POV because V!Polly doesn't know the Ajah comp but must assume I know it.) Part of this also ties to my rejoinder to TUN about his readability to new players. @The Unknown Flame - in case there's any light you judge yourself able to shed, otherwise I'll just go with how I feel about it.

6 hours ago, TwinStorm said:

no, I get that, but I'd prefer to have one person I trust than just no one, I'll trust you, even if its not mutual

@Aeternum Do you not find this Villagery a little? Because ngl I do - I feel like Storm sticking to his guns about preferring to trust Polly and that being how a Villager would approach this game kind of feels in the wheelhouse of a newer player or at least seems consistent with his views in a genuine way. I feel like an Elim would be more wary about this after getting pressured by you for this.

5 hours ago, Terrisman said:

This to me also seems like an overreaction to bring the heat onto Kas

Slightly concerned about this post, and I guess it comes down to stuff like worrying about whether Terris is kind of TMIing me Village here, since this is kind of accusing Steel of setting me up as a ML.

IF YOU TLDR; THE ENTIRE POST THIS IS THE IMPORTANT BIT

Current read thoughts:

VILLAGE PROLLY:

<Jo, Drake, Hopper, Storm??, Steel>

Not sure about Steel revision upwards but on further reflection, I feel like there's a disrepancy with QF74 E!Steel here. I really don't know how I feel about Storm and if I'm overcredencing on that one post, but yeah. 

NULL:
<Aet, Wiz, Sart, Ash, Terris, anyone else not mentioned - players mentioned because they're deliberately null due to mixed factors etc.>

If forced to pick, I'd probably put Ash and Sart as Village but I'm not super comfortable with the Sart read, have a healthy respect for Aet's E!range, and don't feel there's much to go off for Wiz. Terris probably V if forced as well, but I go back and forth on Terris.

SUS:
<TUN, Polly, BridgeBoi>

Will note BridgeBoi not only got ignored but made a post that was pretty much nothing substantial as third voter on me, and that seems to have gone unquestioned by everyone including Aet. Wondering about the odds of an Aet/BridgeBoi team lol.

I would put more effort into the tiers but it's D1 and I'm enjoying revisiting my childhood by making TJ listen to me laughing about the Rock overselling stunners and Gunther being a goddamned troll, so this is what you get.

I'm fine with being D1ed as I can just go back to watching ~Physical Theatre, but will do my best to drop a more finalised reads list prior to rollover.

Edited March 23, 2025 by Kasimir
extra spaces removed

[Kasimir he/him]

1 hour ago, |TJ| said:

Vote Count: 

KelsierApologist (2): The Wandering Wizard, Terrisman
Kasimir (2): TwinStorm, BridgeBoi
DrakeMarshall (2): Ashbringer, Joe
TwinStorm (1): Aeternum
Aeternum (1): Kasimir
Ashbringer (1): ThatOneWorldhopper
Mark IV (1): xxGaea
STINK (1): Teldris Anuar
xxGaea (1): Sart

As far as I'm concerned, voting Polly is the best move here given my credences (having two of my V reads in a tie with the E read is a no brainer) and I may very well decide to do that subsequently. But I don't think that's the most useful place for my vote to be going.

xxGaea

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.

Edited to add:

@Terrisman - I notice you don't tend to bold your votes. Would it be possible to try doing so? It makes them easier to catch, and also some of the players are colourblind, so some shades of unbolded red are particularly murder to identify. Thank you!

Edited March 23, 2025 by Kasimir

[Mark IV he/him]

This is just gonna be a reaction post to callouts in the thread, I guess I'll do a deeper read later

11 hours ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

Yup! kelsieraPOLLYgist

 

8 hours ago, KelsierApologist said:

Yeah, it’s the reasoning lol. You had all of my reasons in one place

Yep! It’s the stressed syllable in apologist

Oh, huh, can't believe I missed that XD 
Count me less confused
-------------

11 hours ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

This is really weird to me Mark. Your whole post seems to imply that you want to delay the Elevation of a Sitter to the Amrylin Seat. I agree with that. But then you express mild support for using the Green Ajah ability to accelerate the inevitable Elevation. Would it not be better to convince the Green Ajah to never use their ability? Using it removes one of the cycles we can spend executing a Black Ajah.

What do you even mean dismantling the mechanics? From an RP perspective, I'm all for it. Decentralize the power! From an actual mechanical game perspective, my understanding of the rules is that there's simply no way to do that. One Sitter will be stilled every Night, no matter what we do. There is nothing we can do to prevent a Stilling, all we can do is work to delay the Elevation. Hence, we absolutely shouldn't use the Green Ajah ability.

Reading the follow ups, I've realised I forgot to consider what happens when only two sitters remain - I had reasoned under the assumption that it was only the Hall of the Tower (the Sitters) who would be voting for Amyrlin and I forgot to reconsider once I learnt that it was all players. I can see how 2 sitters is more of a forced election now, yeah. Didn't realise the Green Ajah ability accelerates the end. 

Which makes me think - we could theoretically get off the hook with just one election by eliminating the last sitter using the Green Ajah ability. Then we'd have to decide whether to instate or depose the Amyrlin, which I guess we'll have to do anyway
-------------

10 hours ago, xxGaea said:

Currently, gut-read says Mark IV is suspicious--I can't quite put my finger on what is bothering me about what he last posted, but something just feels off to me.

I am also slightly suspicious of Kas rn, since he seems to be so fully be controlling the conversation this cycle and last cycle. Could genuinely be a village thing--but it could very easily be an elim making themselves very present and active in the thread to avoid suspicion--since a lot of elims tend to prefer to lurk and make minimal posts in my experience.

1. Maybe it's because most of my post is mechanics-based thinking rather than reading people etc? On a re-read, the post does feel kinda dry - kinda feels like it lacks engagement, so would be a good place for an elim to hide, but eh,
2. It's been a long time since I played with Kas (I don't remember when I last played with him, really) but if my half-remembered impression is correct, Kas tends to be like this anyway. I don't think he used to stay very quiet (unless there was a knife in his back ). But it's been more than 8 years, and my memory isn't what it used to be (and maybe Kas isn't either )

9 hours ago, xxGaea said:

[...]

As for Steel, I have conflicting feelings on his alignment, but I think that is partially due to the last game we just played in.

In general, Kas's posts are the ones that have stuck out to me most, from a mixture of the amount of information it seems like he has and the general tone feeling off to me.

Regardless, as it was pointed out that my joke vote has no real purpose Drake Marshall, placing my actual vote on Mark IV.

I know you said you generally vote off of gut feel, so I don't necessarily expect you'll be able to answer, but I would really like to know what feels off to you in my posts. I've only made like 2 posts so far (with any substance, at least). So if there's something that's off, it's gotta be in there.

On one hand, there's just one vote on me (yours), so I'm not too worried, I just want to know what caught your attention. But, on the other hand, I'm also only one vote away from being tied right now, so I'd like to know why in case I have to defend myself later in the day (rollover's at a really bad time, so I'd rather draft a response before that).

9 hours ago, BridgeBoi said:

That’s two win conditions versus a minimal beneficial village armylmn. (Sorry about spelling)

Haha, dw. I think most of us have been there before
 -----------------

6 hours ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

Well now I'm back to voting for Drake Marshall like I was earlier, since Wandering Wizard and KelsierApologist have both explained their reasoning for voting for Kasimir, and I found both of those reasonings to be Adequate. I think at this point I would comfortably vote on Drake, Twin, Mark, or Aeternum. I'll try to figure out why those are my sus reads in the morning. It's already past my bed time and I expect I'll still be up for another hour at least, because I'm terrible at going to bed on time.

Any reason you've shifted from having a V lean on me last turn to being comfortable voting on me this turn? I see your white text and raise you white response text. Dw, not trusting Polly either
------------------ I had thought no one does it anymore, based on the last couple games I played :')

1 hour ago, Kasimir said:

I'm fine with being D1ed as I can just go back to watching ~Physical Theatre, but will do my best to drop a more finalised reads list prior to rollover

^This, ironically, makes me more suspicious of Kas. The first bit of evidence was him asking in thread if the N0 turn would have a elim kill. I'd have expected an elim to ask this in the elim doc instead.

But with this line, I feel like it's just posturing to make it seem like he's less invested in the outcome, whereas an elim would be more invested in not dying. 

Maybe it's Kas playing mind games. Idk. Honestly, I think I'm overthinking it, so I'm discounting this line of reasoning for now
----------------

In terms of reads on current "votees":

1. Polly - I'm gonna have to read her posts again. No reads right now, I've kinda forgotten what the conversation with her has been.
2. Kas - Village lean based on meta-game sort of stuff. But also weary that this might be a trap?
3. Drake - Had a slight elim read last cycle, but that might have just been me co-opting other people's reads
4. Gaea - Their posts give me an elim read on them because I generally don't like the attack of "It's a gut feel and I can't put my finger on it" cause it's an easy elim cop out later in the game. But I want to hear from them before I vote for them (if I do) given they're already under pressure in the tie
   
   That's all the people in the tie with 2 votes.

I was gonna vote for someone with a single vote, to broaden the tie and get in more reactions, but I don't have any solid leads/suspicions of my own and I don't want to parrot other people's suspicions. Maybe I'll come on in a bit and vote on someone with just 1 vote or maybe I'll come on in the end and vote for whoever I want. But at the moment, I'm not voting. You can do with the what you want. I need a break

--------------

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Tbh this is why the game went through like five different iterations with Drake, TJ, me, and TUN trying to patch it. Some of it is the wincon confusion wrt Village needing or not needing to elect an Amrylin. In one iteration, the Amrylin had three Seeker scans, etc. The bottom line is TUN and I both warned that the Village might just decide the best course of action is not to elect an Amrylin but one way or another, the ruleset as it currently is is engineered to force the Village to do so eventually, if only because of the Stillings, and the fact an Amrylin is de facto elected once we're down to I think two Sitters left. 

Minimally, since we are forced to elect, I do think we should at least control the Sitter pool by ensuring the most suspicious Sitters are Stilled each Night so that even if the Amrylin is only elected when we can no longer delay, we aren't left with Suspicous McSusface as Amrylin because we didn't pay enough attention to the Sitter pool. Alongside the fact we...naturally want to exe pressure/actually exe sus Sitters!

Anyway TJ just thought players would be excited to get to elect an Amrylin so I guess TUN and I shrug here and say "I told you so"  But the game's not designed to break regardless, even if players choose to delay into elections, and between overtuning the Amrylin and undertuning, undertuning is just better and less prone to breaking.

Yeah, the mechanics kinda make more sense now. Maybe I'd have been more excited to vote for an Amyrlin if she was gonna stick around and contribute to the win con  

Yeah, it feels like it's more of a two level game now (which is the intended meta, I guess?). Gotta narrow down on one confirmed village sitter and remove elims from the non-sitter pool. 

[Kasimir he/him]

39 minutes ago, Mark IV said:

But with this line, I feel like it's just posturing to make it seem like he's less invested in the outcome, whereas an elim would be more invested in not dying. 

Take this as you will: it's a bit meta coming from me, but 1/3 the game can't be voted on.

Of everyone left:

<Wiz, Polly, Storm, Aet, Ash, Hopper, Drake, you/Mark, Teldris, STINK, Gaea>

I V!read Drake and Hopper so they're immediate no-s to me.

<Wiz, Polly, Storm, Aet, Ash, Hopper, Drake, you/Mark, Teldris, STINK, Gaea>

You got N1ed just last game and I'd like you to be able to actually play the game. Similar energy for Storm because he got exed pretty early on in the AG and I think he was hoping to enjoy WoT RPing. (Not sure, just guessing off the Melian sign-up and the fact he does characters. Agreed he has played in the QF too so technically it's not as urgent, but I guess I have a soft spot for newbies. STINK's first game back, and Teldris's first game.)

<Wiz, Polly, Storm, Aet, Ash, Hopper, Drake, you/Mark, Teldris, STINK, Gaea>

I could vote Polly but I think the resulting train is just less useful to everyone at this stage in the cycle. One vote train on Wiz doesn't feel productive either, and I'm already chilling on Aet so it's between <Ash, Gaea> for me if I want my vote to be useful. I'm also interested in what this says about Sart.

Given all these train formations, and the fact I don't really want Drake dead because he's one of my V reads*, I think it's reasonable for me to consider quite relevant a world where I do get exed D1, if only because there aren't that many choices due to a lot of players being protected one way or another. And IDK if people feel bad about it so I'm just saying outright that I don't really mind. I haven't been exed since 2018 anyway, so I guess I'm long overdue.

 

*There's probably something about how I should not be willing to let myself go over compared to a V read and I get it but my response to that sort of choice is "Nah, I'm just going to vote elsewhere because this is a stupid forced dilemma and I'm not buying it."

Edited March 23, 2025 by Kasimir

[Terrisman]

I was just reading the rules again and noticed that BridgeBoi as the sitter for the Blue Ajah isn’t just a regular thug, he’s immune to his first Stilling as well

I don’t know about the rest of you, but that would worry me. Regardless of whom we intend to try to Still tonight, I think we need to make sure BridgeBoi has the fewest votes so that if we do want to still him later we can. It will go to whoever has the next fewest votes so we can still try to ensure that whomever we actually want to Still is still Stilled. 
BridgeBoi does seem a little suspicious to me as well, voting without any reason except “vibes”.

As an aside we haven’t really heard much from @ThatOneWorldhopper or @STINK . We also don’t know who they are paired with. If either of you have what to say I think more people posting can only give us more information so try not to keep quiet.

 I’m curious to know, Hopper, what angle you think the BA is going with to try to win the game. (I think we all should be thinking about this.) I’m sure that they had a primary method they were going with. (not that if a different way presented itself they wouldn’t switch.) Do we think that they were trying to nominate and get as many sitters as possible to try to get the Amyrlin or are they going to try to get a village Amyrlin and then depose them (seems like it could be more reasonable then the last option) or just eliminate enough of the rest of us. 

In terms of where I’m leaning, I do have a v!lean on Kasimir and Jo. I have a e!lean on xxGaea and Steel. I don’t necessarily think BridgeBoi is an elim but don’t think we can leave him either just in case

[Jo and the Bush all/any]

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

You...read LG101. And TwinStorm has played with E!TUN before. Of the entire playerlist, only BridgeBoi, Terris, Teldris, Jo, Hopper, and Gaea could be reasonably expected not to know how E!TUN behaves. (The fact you say you don't know is not reasonably something I'd assume given knowledge you read LG101 prior to you saying this.) That's 1/3 of the game. It isn't even a majority new player game!

If it turns out TUN is Ajah-mates with Polly and Storm, this will probably explain it in a less sus way, but if TUN isn't, but is Ajah-mates with two newer players, I almost think this is a potential Elim slip because why the hell would I assume, in a non-majority new player game, that TUN's Ajah-mates would be specifically new and thus unaware of how TUN plays? Given the game comp, it feels like Polly is assuming I'd know that Ajah's comp, but how would I know it unless I was Black Ajah with a teammate in TUN's Ajah? (If I'm in TUN's Ajah, then this being sus shouldn't even arise from V!Polly's POV because V!Polly doesn't know the Ajah comp but must assume I know it.) Part of this also ties to my rejoinder to TUN about his readability to new players. @The Unknown Flame - in case there's any light you judge yourself able to shed, otherwise I'll just go with how I feel about it.

I'll be honest, this is something that has kinda bugged me off and on about SE. Do y'all just have like, profiles on players? or just insanely good memories? Even in my heyday of playing in almost every game, I didn't remember specifics of playstyles. I go into pretty much every game knowing nothing about every player beyond emotional associations such as "I remember people considered AAA to be a good Player." "Darn, that BBB fellow really tricked me in a previous game." Polly not knowing that Tun apparently has a reputation for being difficult to read doesn't surprise me in the least bit. This might more be a me thing because of my memory issues, but IDK.

1 hour ago, Mark IV said:

Any reason you've shifted from having a V lean on me last turn to being comfortable voting on me this turn? I see your white text and raise you white response text. Dw, not trusting Polly either
------------------ I had thought no one does it anymore, based on the last couple games I played :')

I forgot to write down why I had suspicions. Heck, I need to reread the whole game again now. Excellent. More to follow.

8 hours ago, Terrisman said:

What’s interesting is that I would’ve thought the BA would try to get as many sitters as possible. From the fact that none of the sitters seem to have really campaigned for the position it seems unlikely that they did or there would have been more people who tried and didn’t become sitters. If that’s the case, it would suggest that the BA is probably going with a different strategy, less about winning the Amyrlin Seat and more likely either deposing one or just eliminating the rest of us. Possibly they thought the village would look out for the sitters more and figured the easiest way to blend in is to stay outside of the sitters. Otherwise it is just confusing to me why it seems we had so many passive nominations. 

I can't think of any good BA strategies that rely on them just killing us all. 2 players leave the game per cycle. I'm leaning towards the Elims having 4 members, because the Elim Win Conditions are generally a little bit skewed towards them. This means that if they engage in perfect play, they need to remove 10 Villagers, and they're unlikely to engage in perfect play. I don't think they will ignore the Amyrlin Seat entirely.

I have paranoidly talked in the Yellow Doc about how I could see the Black Ajah going for a long term plan of Deposing the Tower Amyrlin by not having any of them become Sitters so that at the end of the game we assume that the Elevated Sitter must have been Black Ajah. My yellow-fellows pointed out that that would require a lot of thread control to pull off to get the village to repeatedly make the same mistake.

I think the Black Ajah would want to try to win using Elevation simply to not narrow their options early on. Right now everything is available to them, assuming they have a Sitter. And with the protections we Sitters enjoy, I think it would be sensible for the them to reach for that, even if they didn't intend to reach for the Amyrlin Seat itself. That was my original desire to be a Sitter, temporary protection from the Execution and Night Kills. A foolish, selfish desire, I see that now.

Vote Count:

KelsierApologist (2): The Wandering Wizard, Terrisman
Kasimir (2): TwinStorm, BridgeBoi
xxGaea (2): Sart, Kasimir
DrakeMarshall (2): Ashbringer, Joe
TwinStorm (1): Aeternum
Ashbringer (1): ThatOneWorldhopper
Mark IV (1): xxGaea
STINK (1): Teldris Anuar

You know what?

3 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Tbh this is why the game went through like five different iterations with Drake, TJ, me, and TUN trying to patch it. Some of it is the wincon confusion wrt Village needing or not needing to elect an Amrylin. In one iteration, the Amrylin had three Seeker scans, etc. The bottom line is TUN and I both warned that the Village might just decide the best course of action is not to elect an Amrylin but one way or another, the ruleset as it currently is is engineered to force the Village to do so eventually, if only because of the Stillings, and the fact an Amrylin is de facto elected once we're down to I think two Sitters left. 

Minimally, since we are forced to elect, I do think we should at least control the Sitter pool by ensuring the most suspicious Sitters are Stilled each Night so that even if the Amrylin is only elected when we can no longer delay, we aren't left with Suspicous McSusface as Amrylin because we didn't pay enough attention to the Sitter pool. Alongside the fact we...naturally want to exe pressure/actually exe sus Sitters!

Anyway TJ just thought players would be excited to get to elect an Amrylin so I guess TUN and I shrug here and say "I told you so"  But the game's not designed to break regardless, even if players choose to delay into elections, and between overtuning the Amrylin and undertuning, undertuning is just better and less prone to breaking.

This is a pile of Crem. From a Game Master's perspective at least. We're all here to have fun, in one way or another. I'm changing my tactics. I'm going for the Amrylin Seat.

A strong and loyal Amyrlin, loyal to the Tower, would be able to close down two of the Black Ajah's roads to victory. I will heal the infection that is corrupting our tower, as is my prerogative as Sitter of the Yellow Ajah. I now believe that we should absolutely elevate an Amyrlin as soon as possible, to prevent the Black Ajah from having the time to manipulate us into making the wrong choice. The Black Ajah will be killing our best and brightest, the ones who are closest to figuring them out. So we should make the decision now, when we still have all members of the Tower present (all except one, whomever will be executed today.) Tonight, after the Execution, Cast your Amyrlin Seat Votes for A Jo in the Bush!

 

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

Do y'all just have like, profiles on players? or just insanely good memories?

Mat has @ me about this before, apparently I tend to just have a pretty good memory when it comes to players and (more unusually), the numeric games they played in. I guess you can consider it more of a feat when I remember it both from the days we both started playing and more recent times.

So in answer to:

2 hours ago, Mark IV said:

1. It's been a long time since I played with Kas (I don't remember when I last played with him, really) but if my half-remembered impression is correct, Kas tends to be like this anyway. I don't think he used to stay very quiet (unless there was a knife in his back ). But it's been more than 8 years, and my memory isn't what it used to be (and maybe Kas isn't either )

Probably AG2, so 2015/2016 boundary. This was when you did the FNG play and murdered pretty much all the Villagers, so good job and well done, especially on your first game! I think I was sussing you but obviously, nothing a knife in my back didn't solve man  I'm not really using that as a baseline for your play, though. I'm just going with it.

2 hours ago, Mark IV said:

^This, ironically, makes me more suspicious of Kas. The first bit of evidence was him asking in thread if the N0 turn would have a elim kill. I'd have expected an elim to ask this in the elim doc instead.

But with this line, I feel like it's just posturing to make it seem like he's less invested in the outcome, whereas an elim would be more invested in not dying. 

Maybe it's Kas playing mind games. Idk. Honestly, I think I'm overthinking it, so I'm discounting this line of reasoning for now

On further reflection, I kind of like this? Mark can go to the Village pool. Well, the mixed read/train agnosticness has me a bit conflicted on him, but I also think Mark willing to kind of say this about the guy who spent a decent chunk of the cycle in lead train given what my flip would say just feels pretty real and more likely from V!Mark than E!Mark.

6 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

Polly not knowing that Tun apparently has a reputation for being difficult to read doesn't surprise me in the least bit.

I think my question is: if you read LG101, shouldn't it have jumped out to you? Both TUN being difficult to read and the fact the game did not, in fact, really find TUN? (They found Drake very quickly.)

10 minutes ago, A Jo in the Bush said:

This is a pile of Crem. From a Game Master's perspective at least. We're all here to have fun, in one way or another. I'm changing my tactics. I'm going for the Amrylin Seat.

Ngl bruv, while I support this and you're probably one of the players I V!read of most of the Sitters, I'm not really ready to roll the dice on you being the Seat immediately without feeling as though I can solidify my read one way or another. I'm not banking our entire wincon on a N0-D1 read and frankly I'd side-eye any player willing to do so this early in the game. I'd at least wait and see if I still feel that way by C3 or so. Regardless, you're not my lead candidate for Stilling tonight, suffice to say.