Wind and Truth Full Book Reactions (Cosmere Edition)

[smokeesid]

I want to know one thing although I have just started Wind and truth and I am 5% complete but I have read here that Dalinar killed stormfather. That comes as a surprise to me. Is that contrived in the book. Does that feel a plot device? Anyone replying to me can elaborate on that without caring about the spoilers because I usually spoil myself before reading any book

[BinarySecond]

Just now, smokeesid said:

I want to know one thing although I have just started Wind and truth and I am 5% complete but I have read here that Dalinar killed stormfather. That comes as a surprise to me. Is that contrived in the book. Does that feel a plot device? Anyone replying to me can elaborate on that without caring about the spoilers because I usually spoil myself before reading any book

Just read the book? Complete RAFO.

[Soccorro]

3 hours ago, smokeesid said:

Anyone replying to me can elaborate on that without caring about the spoilers because I usually spoil myself before reading any book

If you don’t mind spoilers…Someone else kills Stormfather. Not Dalinar, though you may argue that it happened because of Dalinar’s idiotic decisions but Stormfather agreed with those idiotic decisions and gave his permission being fully aware that he might die

[Argenti he/him]

12 minutes ago, Soccorro said:

If you don’t mind spoilers…Someone else kills Stormfather. Not Dalinar, though you may argue that it happened because of Dalinar’s idiotic decisions but Stormfather agreed with those idiotic decisions and gave his permission being fully aware that he might die

I wouldn't call it idiotic, but it is a consequence of Dalinar's actions.

[Sedside she/her]

1 minute ago, Argenti said:

I wouldn't call it idiotic, but it is a consequence of Dalinar's actions.

I would call it a consequence of Dalinar's idiotic plot device actions 

[smokeesid]

Thanks for the reply. Spoiling myself keeps me going through the boring parts of the book considering that good things will come later. But really, I wonder if there is any novel that doesn't use plot devices. That is one thing that has made reading novels boring for me after reading a good sum untill now. 

[Treamayne]

7 minutes ago, smokeesid said:

Thanks for the reply. Spoiling myself keeps me going through the boring parts of the book considering that good things will come later. But really, I wonder if there is any novel that doesn't use plot devices. That is one thing that has made reading novels boring for me after reading a good sum untill now. 

Tropes are fairly inescapable - but there are many many ways to Play with a Trope.

Examples from that page:

Spoiler

A full comparison could go something like this: A car chase is in progress at reckless speeds. The camera cuts to some workers carrying a Sheet of Glass, then cuts back to the panicked driver headed towards the workers. It seems pretty obvious that the driver is going to smash the glass sheet into a million fragments... or is it?

• If the car drives through the pane of glass, it's played straight.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, and the workers are heard complaining about why cars that are being chased can avoid nearly everything but a pane of glass, it's lampshaded.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, and the driver stops to explain the reason why he crashed into it, it's justified.
• If the car misses the pane of glass, it's subverted.
  • If something else causes the glass to be broken before the car can even make it to where the glass pane broke, it's also subverted.
• If the car misses the pane of glass but a second car breaks it instead, it's a double subversion.
  • If the pane of glass is broken before being hit by the car, which then drives through a different pane of glass carried by a second pair of workers, it's also double subverted.
  • Another double subversion is if the car hits the glass and knocks it out of the workers' hands without damage to the glass or car... and the glass crumbles after it gets picked back up.
• If the car comes down the road in a series of wide turns, and it isn't clear if the car will hit the pane of glass (if it ever makes it there), it's zig-zagged.
• If the car disappears from view and isn't seen again until after the sound of glass breaking, it's implied.
• If the car stops before hitting the pane of glass and then takes a different route, it's defied.
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, and not only the glass shatters, but also the car, as well as the workers, it's exaggerated.
• If the car is not doomed to hit the pane of glass, but one of the workers sees the car coming and stops in the street such that the car drives into the pane of glass, it's invoked.
• If the car drives through the glass, and views are shown of damage sustained by the car either complicating the driveability of the vehicle and/or making the car more identifiable to the chasers, or the workers point out the direction of the car to the chasers as they drive by, it's deconstructed.
  • However, if the chasing cars get flat tires driving over the glass shards strewn across the street, or if the drivers stop to see to the workers' injuries from the broken glass, it's reconstructed.
• If the car hits the pane of glass, and the chasing car(s) regain their lost trail from the scattered pieces of glass, it's exploited (and also Played for Drama.)
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, and the result is that the glass merely has a car-shaped hole in it, that's downplayed (and also Played for Laughs, but that's another matter. It's also Impact Silhouette played straight.)
  • If the car drives into the pane of glass, but the glass is only slightly chipped, then that's also downplayed (and also played straight.)
• However, if the car drives into the pane of glass, and the result is that the glass merely has a car-shaped hole in it, but the pane of glass collapsed on itself, it's either played straight or a double subversion (And also breaking a downplay).
• If the car drives through the pane of glass backwards, or in any other weird way that a car should not be driving in, it's parodied.
• If the car drives through the pane of glass, but it's the car that shatters (instead of the glass), it's inverted (and a very shoddily-built car at that).
• If the car hits the pane of glass and drives through unharmed because the car company paid to have their car in the film and wouldn't allow its use unless it was shown undamaged, it's enforced.
• If the workers are talking about the possibility of a car driving through the glass before the car chase reaches them, it's discussed.
• If the car's occupants mention the number of car chases that lead to a pane of glass being carried across a street, it's conversed.
• If the car drives into the pane of glass, but the glass endures and car bounces back, it is backfired.
• If there is no pane of glass despite road signs saying "glass factory", or no car chase despite hearing engines roaring from the distance while the workers transport the glass through the road, it's averted.

Hope that helps

Edited January 7, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG/Examples

[Duneye]

Very much enjoyed the book, I binge read it in like a week after it came out. I've been letting it marinate since I finished and I think I finally have some (maybe) coherent thoughts on it.

1. Kaladin and Szeth: Kaladin was my favorite character throughout the series and his whole arc in this book is him trying to become Roshar's first therapist and I honestly think it worked better than most people give it credit for. I generally enjoyed him trying to get through to Szeth, and him finally learning to play the flute after losing Hoid's was great. I think a lot of people have looked at Kaladin trying his best to relate to Szeth and giving him the all the tricks that have worked for him and brushed it off as amateurish psych 101 kind of stuff. But that's just it, Kaladin IS an amateur therapist. He has no idea what can or will work, so he's just using all the techniques that worked for him. For Szeth's part, I loved his backstory. As someone who is very much a rules-by-the-book kind of autistic, I really empathized with him struggling to understand his place in Shinovar.

Speaking of Shinovar... How the f did Odium end up controlling them?? The Honorbearers were like their rulers, right? Or were they just religious leaders? Wouldn't that make Ishar de facto the King/Pope of Shinovar, since he controlled all the Honorbearers? There was no actual Unmade, so how does Odium control the area? Who did he strike a bargain with? The way Sanderson just hand waved Odium's control over the region really doesn't sit well with me.

2. Shallan/Renarin/Rlain: I really liked the Renarin-Rlain romance, and I'm looking forward to seeing how their relationship effects human-singer relations in the future. As I was reading the book, I got annoyed every time Formless showed up in the SR because I thought Shallan had already resolved that... turns out, she had and it was a Ghostblood pretending to be Formless! Loved that twist, if I hadn't been so annoyed at Formless maybe I would have figured out who it actually was. The trio's SR shenanigans were interesting to say the least, but I would like to know how exactly Sja-Anat's spren have a greater understanding of the SR than regular spren. I 100% subscribe to the "Shallan is pregnant" theory, and I can't wait to see what happens there. I think it'd be funny if Shallan tries to form an anti-Ghostbloods while juggling an infant in Shadesmar.

3. Adolin: By far the bet POV in the book. Adolin's story was incredible, and I am absolutely stoked by the possibilities of the Unoathed. I'm kind of picturing Azir turning into a human-refuge, where all the oppressed humans will try to escape to in order to get away from the tyranny of the Fused/Singers and the Everstorm. I wouldn't be surprised if the Unoathed were backed by Valor somehow considering the whole infiltration of the palace was about the most valorous thing a person could do, but that theory is still a bit far-fetched for me. INCREDIBLY depressing that Adolin will never get to reconcile with his father

4. Dalinar/Navani: Spiritual Realm adventures were crazy. Idk about other people, but it makes sense to me that two Bondsmiths would be able to traverse the Spiritual Realm fairly well. I got kinda po'd when Dalinar kept refusing to go back to the PR even when they were dragging around child Gavinor. Like, they could just go back in, right?? And Dalinar, my man, you could just *talk* to the Stormfather, you didn't have to push him around like you did Elhokar.

I am very curious as to who the Nohadon in the vision actually was, not to mention how Honor is going to evolve while held by Taravangian.

5. Jasnah: Oh, Jasnah... don't feel too bad. It was a hard sell to keep Thaylenah in the coalition to begin with. And with the terms Taravangian was offering? How could Fen refuse? Thaylen City would die without ports to trade with (especially now that the Oathgates are dead), and all the ports are controlled by Retribution. Not much you could do there. Fen made the right choice for her people, but I hope she at least tries to help what is left of the Coalition somehow.

All in all, I like where things ended up, tho I feel like the journey to get there could have been a bit better in spots. Kaladin as the 10th Herald really only makes sense considering the Herald that died was the Herald of the Windrunners and Szeth really didn't want the job. Dalinar's death also made sense, tho I feel like people are maybe reading too much in to the "he is claimed by another" thing, he's dead for sure. Now Blackthorn on the other hand... That I hate. It makes absolutely no sense to me that just because Dalinar told a SR version of his past self a few of his memories that that somehow makes it possible to turn into a Fused, not to mention it gives Taravangian yet another thing he wanted without really earning it.

[AquaRegia he/him]

 OK, 13 pages of posts and counting, I doubt I'll have anything new to say.  I'll just reply to some good comments from others.

On 12/6/2024 at 9:53 PM, eriwancoselyn said:

Maybe the first two books just set the bar too high.

I think this sums up my feelings as well.  The first 2 books were JUST SO GOOD, everything since feels like a letdown.  Not BAD, just... not quite living up to the promise, I guess.

On 12/7/2024 at 2:19 AM, Biceratops said:

No idea what all that fallen moon stuff is about, though. I would've liked to hear a bit more about that.

Agree.  Those storming moons have been tantalizing me ever since they were first described in tWoK.  Now we hear that Odium's Perpendicularity is located at fallen fragments of a 4th moon, but get nothing else about this?  I'll charitably assume it's setting up cool things for SA 6-10... but if not, I call shenanigans!

On 12/7/2024 at 8:05 AM, Darvys said:

wish El had also gotten any sort of focus rather than a tease to his future involvement.

After his frankly TERRIFIC introduction at the end of RoW, I was psyched to see who El was and what he could do.  I enjoyed the Alethkar scene with Odium, it wet my lips.  Then... like 30 seconds of (non-POV) screentime, a Shardblade just for shock value, done.  Letdown city.

On 12/7/2024 at 4:40 PM, Kardenal_13 said:

I like that Aux being 12124 is somewhat confirmed when he says his name (A=1, U=21, X=24). 

Not gonna lie, I NEVER would have figured that out.  Pretty rusting cool.

On 12/7/2024 at 6:38 PM, IcaroRibeiro said:

the lore surrounding the Wind, Stone, and Night felt rushed and underdeveloped. For a writer like Brandon, who usually excels at foreshadowing and gradual worldbuilding, this sudden info-dump felt uncharacteristically forced, as if it were a last-resort addition to tie things together.

Hard agree.  I kept waiting for more to be revealed, to see connections to other things... never happened.  Maybe SA 6-10?

On 12/8/2024 at 1:48 PM, The Stick said:

Vasher:  I think that him training Lift in book 6 will be priceless.

Yes!  I really loved those scenes, and look forward to what those two get up to together.  Maybe a Vasher/Lift novella?

On 12/8/2024 at 1:50 PM, Asthariel said:

I cried a lot in last 20% of the book

Ditto.  My wife and I read to each other, and here's me choking up and trying to see through tears every other chapter.  Dalinar's final goodbye to Navani, Shallan forgiving her mother, Kaladin being A TRUE STORMING HERO... Brando still knows how to make us feel the feels.

On 12/8/2024 at 1:50 PM, Asthariel said:

I'm curious to see what will become of Shallan's child, growing up in Shadesmar, away from human civilization.

Indeed.  How will it affect a child to be BORN in the Cognitive Realm?  I'm happy Adolin lived (I would have bet against it), but being so egregiously separated from his wife and child is a kick in the gut.

On 12/8/2024 at 5:58 PM, discorat said:

Maya speaking in court was in RoW (for some reason i seem to be the only one who bawled their eyes out at that scene??)

No, my friend.  No, you were not.  (*sniff*)

OK, enough for now.  I didn't even make it past page 3 LOL

Edited January 10, 2025 by AquaRegia
one more

[Treamayne]

On 1/9/2025 at 9:29 PM, AquaRegia said:

How will it affect a child to be BORN in the Cognitive Realm? 

Iyatil was born in Shadesmar. Many people are, since there is a thriving community that lives at Silverlight (which is in Shadesmar). WoBs

Spoiler

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

Is Iyatil from Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Her heritage is from Scadrial, but she actually is from Silverlight. It's more recent than my heritage from Denmark.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

Quote

Questioner

The universities of Silverlight, where is that headquartered?

Brandon Sanderson

In the city of Silverlight.

<Edited for length and relevance> Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Quote

Lauren (PallonianFire's wife) (paraphrased)

Does Silverlight exist solely in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

 

 

[rhythm_of_blues_brothers]

On 1/7/2025 at 5:32 PM, Duneye said:

Very much enjoyed the book, I binge read it in like a week after it came out. I've been letting it marinate since I finished and I think I finally have some (maybe) coherent thoughts on it.

1. Kaladin and Szeth: Kaladin was my favorite character throughout the series and his whole arc in this book is him trying to become Roshar's first therapist and I honestly think it worked better than most people give it credit for. I generally enjoyed him trying to get through to Szeth, and him finally learning to play the flute after losing Hoid's was great. I think a lot of people have looked at Kaladin trying his best to relate to Szeth and giving him the all the tricks that have worked for him and brushed it off as amateurish psych 101 kind of stuff. But that's just it, Kaladin IS an amateur therapist. He has no idea what can or will work, so he's just using all the techniques that worked for him. For Szeth's part, I loved his backstory. As someone who is very much a rules-by-the-book kind of autistic, I really empathized with him struggling to understand his place in Shinovar.

Speaking of Shinovar... How the f did Odium end up controlling them?? The Honorbearers were like their rulers, right? Or were they just religious leaders? Wouldn't that make Ishar de facto the King/Pope of Shinovar, since he controlled all the Honorbearers? There was no actual Unmade, so how does Odium control the area? Who did he strike a bargain with? The way Sanderson just hand waved Odium's control over the region really doesn't sit well with me.

2. Shallan/Renarin/Rlain: I really liked the Renarin-Rlain romance, and I'm looking forward to seeing how their relationship effects human-singer relations in the future. As I was reading the book, I got annoyed every time Formless showed up in the SR because I thought Shallan had already resolved that... turns out, she had and it was a Ghostblood pretending to be Formless! Loved that twist, if I hadn't been so annoyed at Formless maybe I would have figured out who it actually was. The trio's SR shenanigans were interesting to say the least, but I would like to know how exactly Sja-Anat's spren have a greater understanding of the SR than regular spren. I 100% subscribe to the "Shallan is pregnant" theory, and I can't wait to see what happens there. I think it'd be funny if Shallan tries to form an anti-Ghostbloods while juggling an infant in Shadesmar.

3. Adolin: By far the bet POV in the book. Adolin's story was incredible, and I am absolutely stoked by the possibilities of the Unoathed. I'm kind of picturing Azir turning into a human-refuge, where all the oppressed humans will try to escape to in order to get away from the tyranny of the Fused/Singers and the Everstorm. I wouldn't be surprised if the Unoathed were backed by Valor somehow considering the whole infiltration of the palace was about the most valorous thing a person could do, but that theory is still a bit far-fetched for me. INCREDIBLY depressing that Adolin will never get to reconcile with his father

4. Dalinar/Navani: Spiritual Realm adventures were crazy. Idk about other people, but it makes sense to me that two Bondsmiths would be able to traverse the Spiritual Realm fairly well. I got kinda po'd when Dalinar kept refusing to go back to the PR even when they were dragging around child Gavinor. Like, they could just go back in, right?? And Dalinar, my man, you could just *talk* to the Stormfather, you didn't have to push him around like you did Elhokar.

I am very curious as to who the Nohadon in the vision actually was, not to mention how Honor is going to evolve while held by Taravangian.

5. Jasnah: Oh, Jasnah... don't feel too bad. It was a hard sell to keep Thaylenah in the coalition to begin with. And with the terms Taravangian was offering? How could Fen refuse? Thaylen City would die without ports to trade with (especially now that the Oathgates are dead), and all the ports are controlled by Retribution. Not much you could do there. Fen made the right choice for her people, but I hope she at least tries to help what is left of the Coalition somehow.

All in all, I like where things ended up, tho I feel like the journey to get there could have been a bit better in spots. Kaladin as the 10th Herald really only makes sense considering the Herald that died was the Herald of the Windrunners and Szeth really didn't want the job. Dalinar's death also made sense, tho I feel like people are maybe reading too much in to the "he is claimed by another" thing, he's dead for sure. Now Blackthorn on the other hand... That I hate. It makes absolutely no sense to me that just because Dalinar told a SR version of his past self a few of his memories that that somehow makes it possible to turn into a Fused, not to mention it gives Taravangian yet another thing he wanted without really earning it.

 

Shinovar & Blackthorn: I agree completely. I also think that about the swap with "fake Gav". If you want to leave him in the SR, just leave him there and accept that many people will see the Contest of Champions part at the end coming. Which apparently a lot of folks saw anyways (I didn't, TBH). 

 

[Through the Living Wrath he/him]

On 1/7/2025 at 5:32 PM, Duneye said:

Very much enjoyed the book, I binge read it in like a week after it came out. I've been letting it marinate since I finished and I think I finally have some (maybe) coherent thoughts on it.

1. Kaladin and Szeth: Kaladin was my favorite character throughout the series and his whole arc in this book is him trying to become Roshar's first therapist and I honestly think it worked better than most people give it credit for. I generally enjoyed him trying to get through to Szeth, and him finally learning to play the flute after losing Hoid's was great. I think a lot of people have looked at Kaladin trying his best to relate to Szeth and giving him the all the tricks that have worked for him and brushed it off as amateurish psych 101 kind of stuff. But that's just it, Kaladin IS an amateur therapist. He has no idea what can or will work, so he's just using all the techniques that worked for him. For Szeth's part, I loved his backstory. As someone who is very much a rules-by-the-book kind of autistic, I really empathized with him struggling to understand his place in Shinovar.

Speaking of Shinovar... How the f did Odium end up controlling them?? The Honorbearers were like their rulers, right? Or were they just religious leaders? Wouldn't that make Ishar de facto the King/Pope of Shinovar, since he controlled all the Honorbearers? There was no actual Unmade, so how does Odium control the area? Who did he strike a bargain with? The way Sanderson just hand waved Odium's control over the region really doesn't sit well with me.

2. Shallan/Renarin/Rlain: I really liked the Renarin-Rlain romance, and I'm looking forward to seeing how their relationship effects human-singer relations in the future. As I was reading the book, I got annoyed every time Formless showed up in the SR because I thought Shallan had already resolved that... turns out, she had and it was a Ghostblood pretending to be Formless! Loved that twist, if I hadn't been so annoyed at Formless maybe I would have figured out who it actually was. The trio's SR shenanigans were interesting to say the least, but I would like to know how exactly Sja-Anat's spren have a greater understanding of the SR than regular spren. I 100% subscribe to the "Shallan is pregnant" theory, and I can't wait to see what happens there. I think it'd be funny if Shallan tries to form an anti-Ghostbloods while juggling an infant in Shadesmar.

3. Adolin: By far the bet POV in the book. Adolin's story was incredible, and I am absolutely stoked by the possibilities of the Unoathed. I'm kind of picturing Azir turning into a human-refuge, where all the oppressed humans will try to escape to in order to get away from the tyranny of the Fused/Singers and the Everstorm. I wouldn't be surprised if the Unoathed were backed by Valor somehow considering the whole infiltration of the palace was about the most valorous thing a person could do, but that theory is still a bit far-fetched for me. INCREDIBLY depressing that Adolin will never get to reconcile with his father

4. Dalinar/Navani: Spiritual Realm adventures were crazy. Idk about other people, but it makes sense to me that two Bondsmiths would be able to traverse the Spiritual Realm fairly well. I got kinda po'd when Dalinar kept refusing to go back to the PR even when they were dragging around child Gavinor. Like, they could just go back in, right?? And Dalinar, my man, you could just *talk* to the Stormfather, you didn't have to push him around like you did Elhokar.

I am very curious as to who the Nohadon in the vision actually was, not to mention how Honor is going to evolve while held by Taravangian.

5. Jasnah: Oh, Jasnah... don't feel too bad. It was a hard sell to keep Thaylenah in the coalition to begin with. And with the terms Taravangian was offering? How could Fen refuse? Thaylen City would die without ports to trade with (especially now that the Oathgates are dead), and all the ports are controlled by Retribution. Not much you could do there. Fen made the right choice for her people, but I hope she at least tries to help what is left of the Coalition somehow.

All in all, I like where things ended up, tho I feel like the journey to get there could have been a bit better in spots. Kaladin as the 10th Herald really only makes sense considering the Herald that died was the Herald of the Windrunners and Szeth really didn't want the job. Dalinar's death also made sense, tho I feel like people are maybe reading too much in to the "he is claimed by another" thing, he's dead for sure. Now Blackthorn on the other hand... That I hate. It makes absolutely no sense to me that just because Dalinar told a SR version of his past self a few of his memories that that somehow makes it possible to turn into a Fused, not to mention it gives Taravangian yet another thing he wanted without really earning it.

I agree with most of this - however, I would like to point out that Odium never directly controlled Shinovar - Ishar controlled it. But Ishar was corrupted by Odium’s intent and investiture when he started to pull from Odium’s perpendicularity.

8 minutes ago, rhythm_of_blues_brothers said:

 

Shinovar & Blackthorn: I agree completely. I also think that about the swap with "fake Gav". If you want to leave him in the SR, just leave him there and accept that many people will see the Contest of Champions part at the end coming. Which apparently a lot of folks saw anyways (I didn't, TBH). 

 

I mean, I heard the “child champion” theory and thought, “huh.” But I never became too devoted to it until I heard that time was weird in the SR.

I prob would never have thought of it tho if I hadn’t seen it.

[rhythm_of_blues_brothers]

My Reaction: I definitely liked it, probably somewhere around 8/10. At the same time, where the story went makes me somewhat less enthusiastic about reading books 6-10. 

The "Good":

-The storylines of pretty much everyone, especially Kaladin/Szeth, Renarin/Rlain

The "Meh": 

My general sense that the ending means that books 6-10 will by-definition have to be Cosmere books instead of Roshar books. In the past, it's been fully possible to appreciate the Stormlight books without "Cosmere Awareness", which is good because I'm not cosmere-aware. I didn't like Mistborn era-2 enough to finish it. I might read other cosmere books, but don't want to feel obligated to in order to enjoy the 2nd Stormlight era.

The previous books got me really into the question of how the Singers/Listeners/Humans might eventually work out a peace on Roshar, and that's one of the reasons I loved the Venli story in book 4. I'm afraid that books 6-10 will be so much about Shards and shard-power-mechanics that the author will take away a lot of agency from the actual Singers/Listeners/Humans. 

[rhythm_of_blues_brothers]

7 hours ago, rhythm_of_blues_brothers said:

My Reaction: I definitely liked it, probably somewhere around 8/10. At the same time, where the story went makes me somewhat less enthusiastic about reading books 6-10. 

The "Good":

-The storylines of pretty much everyone, especially Kaladin/Szeth, Renarin/Rlain

The "Meh": 

My general sense that the ending means that books 6-10 will by-definition have to be Cosmere books instead of Roshar books. In the past, it's been fully possible to appreciate the Stormlight books without "Cosmere Awareness", which is good because I'm not cosmere-aware. I didn't like Mistborn era-2 enough to finish it. I might read other cosmere books, but don't want to feel obligated to in order to enjoy the 2nd Stormlight era.

The previous books got me really into the question of how the Singers/Listeners/Humans might eventually work out a peace on Roshar, and that's one of the reasons I loved the Venli story in book 4. I'm afraid that books 6-10 will be so much about Shards and shard-power-mechanics that the author will take away a lot of agency from the actual Singers/Listeners/Humans. 

Some more Stuff I liked: 

Jasnah: I liked the way WoT wrote her losing to Odium. I hope books 6-10 will show results of the treaty with the Listeners, and her dismantling the Alethi caste system. 

Adolin: Still maybe my favorite character in the whole series. Aside from a general writing style criticism that applies to a lot of Stormlight in general*, the Adolin story was great. 

Kaladin/Szeth: mentioned that one already, but to elaborate...yes I loved the therapist-Kaladin scenes. Yes, it starts of as a shonen tournament arc that takes place mostly separate from the rest of the stories, and that is also just fine. 

*I think Stormlight in general has excessive blow-by-blow fight scene narration. (Note: this does not apply to Kaladin's talk-no-Jutsu. The flute/story scene with Nale is one of my favorite parts of the book). 

 

 

 

[Nitpicking]

16 hours ago, rhythm_of_blues_brothers said:

My general sense that the ending means that books 6-10 will by-definition have to be Cosmere books instead of Roshar books. In the past, it's been fully possible to appreciate the Stormlight books without "Cosmere Awareness", which is good because I'm not cosmere-aware. I didn't like Mistborn era-2 enough to finish it. I might read other cosmere books, but don't want to feel obligated to in order to enjoy the 2nd Stormlight era.

I don't know how many interviews with Brandon you've seen/read, but he's always said that he intended the Cosmere books to become part of a more unified narrative over time. You are, of course, not obligated to like it. I think the Cosmere project is already over-ambitious, honestly, but that's what Brandon is doing. I think he consciously decided to have an incredibly broad scope and see if he could pull it off. (That last sentence is pure speculation.)

[rhythm_of_blues_brothers]

4 hours ago, Nitpicking said:

I don't know how many interviews with Brandon you've seen/read, but he's always said that he intended the Cosmere books to become part of a more unified narrative over time. You are, of course, not obligated to like it. I think the Cosmere project is already over-ambitious, honestly, but that's what Brandon is doing. I think he consciously decided to have an incredibly broad scope and see if he could pull it off. (That last sentence is pure speculation.)

I'll admit some of my trepidation is because I thought two of the major fantasy series that I got into that experienced some kind of 'mega-escalation' both got worse because of it ['Supernatural' TV show & Dresden Files books. Less so with Dresden Files, since I actually got through Battle Ground, w/ Supernatural I quit part-way through the show]. 

Maybe Sanderson can pull it off successfully. I do think he's a better writer than Jim Butcher. 

[Anttix]

My first read was after a too quick reread of the whole series, and again getting quite bored with ROW, so I wasn't too happy with WAT at first. But after that I decided to read all other Cosmere (original Mistborn was the only thing I had read before) and having done that in 3 weeks (I liked Lost Metal btw) I started a slower read of WAT.

I'll write a longer review when I'm through, but am still quite sure that discussing stupid imaginary laws at length is stupid, and getting a conflicted utilitarian old guy to become about absolute evil in 2 weeks is strange. "I became god last week and so instead of doing some of that stuff that Sazed or Rashek did, I destroyed my hometown and spent 15 years in relative time corrupting your evil brothers useless sons son just to mess with you"

 

And 180 turn on "cant have Odium free at any cost"

vs

"odium + honor + cultivation gifted genius free is a magnificent idea (by a guy who has only a slight understanding about anything outside Roshnar)" 

Seems a bit lazy.

 

one thing that seemed interesting:

Szeth's first kill was the Molly killing soldier that had "eyes glowing deep within with a red light". Was that soldier controlled/influenced by Rayse, Ishar or someone else? This makes me thing that Szeth's whole "origin story" starting even from the finding of the stone is completely a setup for one reason or another. Might be just Ishar stuff that got resolved already.

 

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

I've been writing this for over an hour and am at 1800 words and I'm not even halfway done. I'm honestly not sure anyone wants to read all that. I will probably finish writing this out on Word for my own benefit. If anyone wants to actually read a 3-5 thousand+ word reaction, then let me know and I'll send it to you, but it feels like I'd be bogging down the thread to put all of this on here.

The TL:DR version is that I adored WaT. I do have some problems with it, but not many, and ultimately most of them can be explained by the fact that this book is 490,000 words and probably would have to be 600-700k words to "fix" the issues that I have. Brandon literally ran out of room. So, I'm more than willing to extend grace in the few places that I was bothered, especially considering he's probably going to write me a dozen or more secret novels in the next decade

5 Stars. I love it.

[Duneye]

On 1/11/2025 at 3:22 PM, SpiritOfWrath said:

I agree with most of this - however, I would like to point out that Odium never directly controlled Shinovar - Ishar controlled it.

I know he didn't beforehand, but I guess I just took the fact that it's covered by the Everstorm to mean he controls it now, seems that might be a false assumption. We're shown that the Everstorm recedes from Azir and that El agrees to leave the Listeners independant, but we don't get anything that tells us Shinovar isn't under his control so I just assumed. I also remember the Reshi Isles being specifically mentioned as free of Odium's influence, but again, not Shinovar.

If Shinovar isn't already under Retribution's control, it seems like they'll have to bow to him anyway in order to grow anything.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, Duneye said:

On 1/11/2025 at 3:22 PM, SpiritOfWrath said:

however, I would like to point out that Odium never directly controlled Shinovar - Ishar controlled it.

I know he didn't beforehand, but I guess I just took the fact that it's covered by the Everstorm to mean he controls it now, seems that might be a false assumption. We're shown that the Everstorm recedes from Azir and that El agrees to leave the Listeners independant, but we don't get anything that tells us Shinovar isn't under his control so I just assumed. I also remember the Reshi Isles being specifically mentioned as free of Odium's influence, but again, not Shinovar.

If Shinovar isn't already under Retribution's control, it seems like they'll have to bow to him anyway in order to grow anything.

Odium took control of Shinovar while Ishar was busy playing reindeer games. WaT Ch 145:

Spoiler

Good. Likewise, he would allow the Shattered Plains to have a kind of autonomy themselves. What of the rest? Roshar was entirely dominated. His agents in the Shin government had succeeded while the Heralds were distracted. 

The Stone Shamans at the monestaries were not the government of the Shin - that was in Ayabiza (which all of the viewpoints bypassed). Odium took that while nobody was looking. 

[Duneye]

3 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Odium took control of Shinovar while Ishar was busy playing reindeer games. WaT Ch 145:

  Hide contents

Good. Likewise, he would allow the Shattered Plains to have a kind of autonomy themselves. What of the rest? Roshar was entirely dominated. His agents in the Shin government had succeeded while the Heralds were distracted. 

The Stone Shamans at the monestaries were not the government of the Shin - that was in Ayabiza (which all of the viewpoints bypassed). Odium took that while nobody was looking. 

Ah, I knew I remembered something like that. Still a bit disappointed that it happened in the background, but there's only so much Sanderson can fit in a book so oh well.

[Treamayne]

12 minutes ago, Duneye said:

Ah, I knew I remembered something like that. Still a bit disappointed that it happened in the background, but there's only so much Sanderson can fit in a book so oh well.

I kinda like it happened off-screen, since as late as Ch 129 Kaladin is thinking about the Oathgate somewhere in Shinovar he was supposed to secure - then they all forgot about it in Ishar's stupidity. That deserved consequences, and not going to Ayabiza or learning to stop Odium's agents there is what resulted. 

At least this feels more real than "oh, we forgot about that, good thing nothing bad happened."

Edited January 14, 2025 by Treamayne
SPAG

[AonSoo he/him]

On 12/7/2024 at 8:25 AM, Inevitability said:

I genuinely hope this is the direction this is going 

I'm thinking Brandon's 2023 Q&A might have an answer possibly supporting this and other theories about the fourth moon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDm5Hif5rQo (Around 9:20)

[Newly Awakened]

I listened to the 62 hour audio book as the physical copy isn't available in my country yet. Absolutely loved it. Dalinar's sacrifice was so sad, yet pretty inevitable and at least we know he did it to secure a greater future for Roshar. Loved the scene with Taln and Ash, and look forward to seeing more of that in the later books.

Edited January 15, 2025 by Newly Awakened

[Anttix]

WAT, according to kindle search only had the word "storms" in different forms 708 times, would have guessed more. Now the word has appeared 252 + 681 + 865 + 584 + 708 = 3090 times in the main books and few more in others. This includes forms like "storming" and "storm" because kindle search wants to include them. In comparison, word "damn" appeared one time in WAT and there was also one instance of "storming damned" when Adolin really lost it with Dalinar.

edit: What I mean is that I'd really like to see a wilder range of utterances, expressions like "dun sphere of a man" "chull lover" "son of an axehound" or even "desolations" are just waiting to be used.

Edited January 15, 2025 by Anttix