Chapters 29 and 30

[KaladinWorldsinger]

1 minute ago, BinarySecond said:

I thought about that but which Herald would be missing? Taln and Ash are a pair at this stage, so they're both there. Perhaps just not Nale?

Jezrien is dead

[The Sovereign]

8 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

Is it possible that the "Everstorm" we saw was a fakeout? I'm thinking back to the earlier epigraphs about reconsidering the storm:

What if what Rlain assumed is the Everstorm is actually some new version of the high storm?

It is possible if someone were to take up both Honor and Odium the Storms would change into 1 new Storm. Or a new 3rd Storm could manifest. Alternately, there could be a Cultivation storm a brewing.

Edited November 11, 2024 by The Sovereign

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

25 minutes ago, Confused said:

I now think it's Renarin

Renarin as Odium? Does he align enough with the Intent there to actually hold that shard? Seems like he's one of the least likely candidates for that in my mind.

[The Sovereign]

2 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

Renarin as Odium? Does he align enough with the Intent there to actually hold that shard? Seems like he's one of the least likely candidates for that in my mind.

He is bonded to an Enlighted Mistspren. That is some significant Connection. With that said, I agree Renarin as Odium seems unlikely.

Edited November 11, 2024 by The Sovereign

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 hour ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Wit realised much later that Odium had been replaced. In ch 3 when he is talking to Kal, he has no idea. 

Sibling also kinda starts talking about the older God's kinda out of nowhere.

That's a good callout, that was before he realized the memories issue. But I still maintain that he was talking to Kaladin about it because Kaladin was hearing the voice of the wind. And honestly it makes sense to me - the Wind is now actively reaching out instead of passively observing. That kind of action would likely stir the Sibling and others to be more aware of the Wind and more likely to bring them up. 

ALSO - we know from earlier chapter headings that part of what allowed the Wind to be more active and to speak to men again was the transition of Taravangian ascending to Odium. Somehow that made a difference and we don't know why. So those complaints/concerns you have are being acknowledged on multiple fronts I think.

1 hour ago, Little_Dagger said:

I think Syladin is sooo likely now!

Did you also catch this in Drehy's comments to Renarin?

Quote

“It’s silly,” Renarin said, glancing down, blushing. “He’s not even human.”

“I say it’s better to think of everyone as people. Human. Listener. Spren. All people. Even if some of them glow and are annoying.”

If that's not opening the door for spren to have romantic relationships with other people then I'm not sure what is.

[Little_Dagger she/her]

13 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

Did you also catch this in Drehy's comments to Renarin?

I did! It also made me think that the three peoples will be much more intermixed in the future, eg. if spren get pulled into the PR, would they be citizens of Urithiru as well. I wonder... if Kaladin does become the king of Urithiru, would that make Sul a queen (assuming they end up together)? It's funny because Syl always kind of thought of herself as royalty.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Little_Dagger

[duladen he/him]

17 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Jezrien is dead

Like super extra dead

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Anti-Stormlight did no lasting damage to Shallan as expected unfortunately, but a new thing (I think) seems to be that Radiants of higher Oaths are less porous to light. Why? What changes about their body that they leak less light? Was it mentioned before? I don’t remember that part.

Hmm does it have to do with the nahel bond filling more of the cracks in the radiant's spirit web as the bond progresses further? That's what I have as my head canon but I can't find any WoB's about it right now.

4 minutes ago, Little_Dagger said:

I did! It also made me think that the three peoples will be much more intermixed in the future, eg. if spren get pulled into the PR, would they be citizens of Urithiru as well. I wonder... if Kaladin does become the king of Urithiru, would that make Sul a queen (assuming they end up together)? It's funny because Syl always kind of thought of herself as royalty.

And in the back half of Stormlight they refer to Syl as the Ancient Mother instead of Ancient Daughter?

40 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Lift spending time with Gavinor and telling him to do stuff he isn’t supposed to do seems like a foreshadowing of the child champon theory. But truthfully, everything in this book seems like a foreshadowing of some theory. It’s like Brandon is reading them all…

Absolutely! It actually kind of feels like he is intentionally trying to give signs of multiple popular theories so that we are all even more confused lol props to Brando!

[Little_Dagger she/her]

3 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

And in the back half of Stormlight they refer to Syl as the Ancient Mother instead of Ancient Daughter?

Storms, I hope not, haha. Makes it sound like she is paired with Stormfather.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

42 minutes ago, alder24 said:

And in the end they captured all of Ghostbloods except for the three main guys. Of course they did, of course the mission went almost perfectly. I’m so utterly disappointed by how all of this was executed. Shallan basically single-handedly destroyed the Rosharan cell of Ghostbloods in one sweeping strike, one of "the most powerful secret organizations in Cosmere."

I have a suspicion (hope) that Brandon has played one over on US. He knows how deep in this we are, and that everyone expected Shallan to fail her mission. He subverted our expectations by having it go way smoother than it had any right to. Which, of course, was the plan of Mraize and Iyatil the entire time. They knew they had an out, and the people / things left in the hideout really arent that important. Seems like this could be the perfect set up for Shallan (and us) to be blindsided by what the Ghostbloods are doing. 

 

Could very well be just as disappointing as it appears, but I am holding out hope this is part of a bigger scheme. There's always another secret!

 

46 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Odium will be pleased.

I still feel like Gavinor is way too young to really be pulled into all of this. Maybe this festers for a few years and he ends up on Odiums side in the back half but I just feel really icky about this theory, for a lot of reasons. 

 

47 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Maybe that’s not Wyndle at all, maybe that's a Wyndle-Faker??

Stormfaker was a good theory! 

[+Child of Hodor]

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

BAM is really really upset. It might be better for everyone if she just didnt come back. I dont know if you can fix the deadeyes without her, but if you can, do that instead 

BAM after over 1,000 years of imprisonment:

[BinarySecond]

52 minutes ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Jezrien is dead

I promise I read these books.

[duladen he/him]

2 hours ago, Little_Dagger said:

Heralds, would be my guess

Kaladin leading a peaceful group therapy session for Szeth and the Heralds in Shinovar.

If it is the Heralds, I assume the "Horneater" would be Chana and the "Makabaki" could be a few of them... I think Nale, Taln, and Ash are all described as looking Makabaki?

[Wanguu He/Him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

And in the end they captured all of Ghostbloods except for the three main guys. Of course they did, of course the mission went almost perfectly. I’m so utterly disappointed by how all of this was executed. Shallan basically single-handedly destroyed the Rosharan cell of Ghostbloods in one sweeping strike, one of "the most powerful secret organizations in Cosmere." Just like this, with barely no effort… 

To be fair, the three main people are probably the most important to escape. They are the ghostbloods. Holding a meeting in the shattered plains was really risky, and it seems they were already looking for evidence of lightweavers. Considering what Mraize / Iyatil know, I WOULD NOT count them out. Maybe down for a bit, but this really is the first major defeat that the ghostbloods have been handed in a while (I think). Shallan helped then in WoR, Oathbringer, and RoW - and as we saw in the interludes, her defection didn't affect them anyways. The Ghostbloods aren't the Sons of Honor.

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

4 minutes ago, Wanguu said:

but this really is the first major defeat that the ghostbloods have been handed in a while (I think)

I was thinking the same thing - like so far the GB's have been pretty effective and haven't had much that can be called a true loss. They even had Felt capture Restares and are going to get a ton of information from him. Since they are running off script and doing their own thing instead of following Kelsier's orders, I think this even turned out ok for them. They were able to get away from the most practiced and capable lightweaver who has two bonded spren and can even give her lightweavings solidity/substance and draw on fortune. I think Shallan's power creep has grown to the point where this type of outcome does not seem impossible by any stretch. Plus she still barely survived lol it didn't go as bad as I was expecting it to, but it wasn't what I would call easy or uneventful.

[Isilel]

So glad that the raid on the Ghostbloods had been competently planned and executed, after all. The 3 top people only escaped due to something that couldn’t have been foreseen. And yes, Shallan might have killed Iyatil and maybe someone else, if she struck immediately after being discovered, but I understand why she didn’t. Lets hope that captured Ghostbloods don’t get broken out ASAP and actually provide some information.

 

Also, she can actually enter Shadesmar physically, despite not having Transportation?! That’s new. But it was hinted that she had first done it at the as yet unknown time before Kharbranth when she had just one spren? I am confused.

 

The fact that Sanderson called attention to the timing of Vasher’s disappearance makes me think that my previous guess that he had been nabbed by the Ghostbloods and provided them with anti-Light might prove correct.

 

For some reason I thought that at the end of RoW Lift was running around with the red Aviar that she had saved from Mraize before he caught her? But now it seems that the Ghostbloods captured it, after all.

 

I worry about poor Gav, there is a lot of foreboding re: Odium’s champion.

 

Kaladin is taller than a singer warform?! It was very interesting to see how Renarin experiences his visions.

Oh, and to have confirmation that the listeners defected during the False Desolation and escaped from BAM specifically.

Otherwise, Renarin and Rlain are very wholesome.

 In the vision of the 12 people, if Kaladin and Syl are among them, shouldn’t R&R have recognised them? I am also thrown by the presence of a Horneater – surely that person could be neither a Herald, nor a Shin Stone Shaman? Could the blue woman be a personification of the Wind instead? Also, I thought that the Siah Aimians were bright blue?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

1 hour ago, Isilel said:

I am also thrown by the presence of a Horneater – surely that person could be neither a Herald, nor a Shin Stone Shaman?

Let us not forget that a notable Horneater trait is bright red hair, which of the Heralds has bright red hair? Chanarach.

[Jescape]

5 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I'm glad that Lift is there helping Gav, very much living her oaths. I'm glad he's got someone.

Lift continues to be endearing but damn girl, you'll need to deal with reality sooner or later.

In a lot of ways she's dealing with reality more than the adults. She sees what's going on with Gav and the little people and isn't forgetting them. I can't help but think the Bondsmiths and leaders being all wrapped up in their own business is going to bite everyone in the ass. They think they know a lot more than they do, at least Lift is well aware she's in over her head.

[The Stick]

They have someone called Erinor who can speak to stones. I guess that means there is another Willshaper.

I feel so bad for Gavinor. However, I think Lift is making some progress towards healing him, and he could be the cause of her next Oath.

On the note of Gavinor, I think the child champion theory is unlikely. However, if Todium is smart and picks Vyre, and Gavinor is watching, I think he has a loophole. Gavinor is so crazed for revenge, he would break the rules. Plus, he is a five year old, and hardly had good judgement.

At this point, Lift should just as Cultivation for a refund. Really, everyone Cultivation has personally interacted with was lied too. Lift looking at Sigzil was likely foreshadowing for if she had a romantic interest in second half.

The Vasher mention was not accident, he will have a scene. Plus, the Sibling's remarks that life sense can sense bacteria makes me think Vasher will be the first Cosmere epidemiologist or microbiologist.

I think that the bonds allowing you to get rid of the impulses of a form is a nice touch. I also think it makes sense with Venli thus far.

 

Panel 1: I think that the Alethi will not regain Kholinar. Rather, Venli and the listeners will settle there. Renarin will become emperor of the listeners.

Panel 2: I can think that this, along with the cover means that Odium will pull a Stormfather. He will artificially speed the storm to reach Urithiru by contest time.

Panel 3: The Dalinar scene is odd. Clearly, it relates to the Death Rattle. However, I don't think that any Dalinar vision was anything like this. My best guess in this is that SR shenanigans will allow it to happen in both past and future.

Panel 4: Obviously Ishar calls the Heralds out of retirement. How he contacts Chana and Kalak is beyond me. I was thinking Honorblades finding Honorblades, but that won't work if they don't have them. Either Szeth is not there, or a Herald isn't. I have no idea which one.

Panel 5: It is obviously BAM seen through SR. She really does seem exceedingly unfriendly. With her emphasis on breaking, and the theories about linking Unmade to Silver Kingdoms, I link her to Narak.

 

My only problem is the Renarin chapter seems to give way too much away about what directions the book is going.

 

[teknopathetic he/him]

6 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I'm glad that Lift is there helping Gav, very much living her oaths. I'm glad he's got someone.

Lift continues to be endearing but damn girl, you'll need to deal with reality sooner or later.

And telling Gav it’s okay to bad things sometimes. LIKE SERVE ODIUM

[Isilel]

40 minutes ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Let us not forget that a notable Horneater trait is bright red hair, which of the Heralds has bright red hair? Chanarach.

 

Eh, some Vedens also have it. To look like a Horneater one needs to have an appropriately large frame, noticeably larger than that of an average Alethi - nobody is mistaking Shallan for one, for example. But maybe Chana qualifies, we'll see.

I wonder that R&R didn't recognise any of these people. If they are the 9 surviving Heralds, Kaladin, Szeth and Syl, as had been theorised, shouldn't they know the latter 3 at least? I guess I could maybe imagine that Renarin wasn't trusted with Hoid's portraits of the Heralds and wasn't allowed to meet Ash and Taln, but it still doesn't explain the rest.

[teknopathetic he/him]

I hope the secret handshake comes back at some point. Like we are tipped off that Gav has been replaced by a Kandra. Something like that. 

Edited November 11, 2024 by teknopathetic

[Moirne she/her]

So I had the impression that the window with the 12 people in the field was very zoomed out - such that the only recognizable traits would be skin and hair color, and maybe some rough clothing shapes. I’m not surprised Renarin couldn’t recognize specific people’s features. This is what I had in mind… 

[GudThymes he/him]

22 minutes ago, Moirne said:

So I had the impression that the window with the 12 people in the field was very zoomed out - such that the only recognizable traits would be skin and hair color, and maybe some rough clothing shapes. I’m not surprised Renarin couldn’t recognize specific people’s features. This is what I had in mind… 

You're definitely right, but even further away. They aren't even wholly confident they're humans or that there are 12 people. Here's the excerpt.

Quote

The fourth window was, strangely, a bright green field with distant figures standing in it. The grass didn’t flee from them, so perhaps they’d been standing there a long time. He counted… twelve? He looked to Renarin, who reached up and rested a hand beside the window.

 

“Peace,” Renarin said. “I feel peace from this one… Who are they, do you suppose?” He tried humming to Confusion, poorly, but Rlain could kind of tell what he meant.

 

“Humans,” Rlain said. “They’re all human, I think. This one might be a Horneater, and this one Makabaki… And this one—what are those humans with the blue skin?”

The only thing that I'm confident about with this vision is that it occurs in Shinovar "the grass didn't flee". The whole point of this section is that Renarin is teaching Rlain that the visions aren't fact. And then they make a whole bunch of assumptions. We should not take their observations at face value.

[Moirne she/her]

Also - if the bright blue figure is possibly Syl, with brighter blue skin than any known human population, do we think the Siah Aimians might be descended from honorspren? In a similar vein to how the light blue Natanatans are thought to come from human/Aimian mixing? They do act very spren-like, with the shapeshifting and the reverse shadow/Cognitive realm connection.

I like the proposal earlier that 5th ideal Radiant spren can manifest fully in the physical realm - could give some credence to this.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Moirne