Chapters 27 and 28

[Ookla she/her]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

There is a difference between those two things - the chapter made a point about it. I think the difference is that anti-light was in her body, but was not "touching" her soul. She could try drawing it in (breathing it in) and that would make it interact with her soul, annihilating parts of it. 

Here is the WoB I've mentioned before. It said it's survivable for highly invested individuals, but it did suggest anti-investiture would interact with the soul, annihilating parts of it - the bolt should be devastating to Shallan and yet nothing but pain happened to her. 

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Questioner

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested anti-lerasium or anti-atium, assuming they don't explode?

Brandon Sanderson

If you are not highly Invested yourself, and you get the anti[-Investiture], it's not gonna be a fun time. You won't explode, but it will kill you, almost assuredly. Not a fun time, but not an explosively not-a-fun-time, just a regular old not-a-fun-time. Maybe a little bit like pouring molten metal down your throat.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

 

As an Elsecaller, she could just look into CR to see where the real Shallan went. 

Hmm... one of those WoBs seems to disprove my Radiant-becomes-walking-Investiture-bomb idea. How unfortunate.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, Ookla said:

Hmm... one of those WoBs seems to disprove my Radiant-becomes-walking-Investiture-bomb idea. How unfortunate.

Anti-investiture explodes when it's under pressure, like in a gemstone. RoW ch 97:

Quote

There was no explosion. The Voidlight inside the Fused wasn’t under pressure as it was in a gemstone, perhaps. There was a stench of burning flesh, and the skin blistered around the wound

 

[+mdross81 he/him]

What do we think would have happened if the anti-light arrow struck one of Shallan’s Stormlight illusions?

My guess is it would just pass through unless Shallan intentionally made the illusions tangible (as we’ve now seen she can do).

But assuming for the sake of argument that the arrowhead is made of Raysium and that Shallan did make the illusions tangible  … kaboom? 

[StanLemon]

6 minutes ago, alder24 said:

As an Elsecaller, she could just look into CR to see where the real Shallan went.

Assuming she's an Elsecaller. Considering Lieke was the one helping the other Ghostbloods escape and lingered to wait for Mraize and Iyatil. He may very well be the one capable of Elsecalling

[+Oltux72 he/him]

9 minutes ago, alder24 said:

True, that could be the reason, but a normal soul still is made out of raw investiture, it should work the same as with Fused. It didn't. 

Even if that is true, the quarrel wasn't charged with raw anti-investiture. It was charged with anti-Stormlight presumably.

[Zea mays]

57 minutes ago, Ookla said:

Kaladin's making soup for Szeth! Kaladin's making soup for Szeth!

Good grief. Chicken soup for the Radiant Soul. 

 

 

I'm almost afraid to find out how bad Kaladin's cooking skills are.

[Ashbringer he/him]

I think Shallan probably would have been fine taking the bolt to her armor, or shield if she could block it in time - but she'd have no way of knowing, and it's likely better to just be shot with a bolt than risk losing her armor/spren and having the anti-Stormlight explode in her chest.

And props to Shallan here. That was just awesome.

Ghostblood access to corrupted Transportation explains how they plan to follow Dalinar.

Cognitive Shadow souls are much more "accessible" to interference - I think Fused souls are in their gemhearts like Voidspren for Regals are. Living human souls are in the Spiritual, I think. If Iyatil was trying to make a Hemalurgic spike, maybe that changes.

 

And our Unmade is interested in Honorblades. Makes sense.

[StanLemon]

I am curious about the Inkspren. The only corrupted ones we've maybe seen are the Oathgate spren. We learned in RoW that bonding a human is even more looked down on among them than it is even for Honorspren, so does the corruption make them more willing to bond humans or are the ones more willing to bond humans easier to corrupt 

[Sedside she/her]

27 minutes ago, alder24 said:

In the end I'm still disappointed by the total lack of preparation from Ghostbloods. They did nothing, they just run away, no secret off-world weapons, no technology ready to be used against Radiants - nothing. I've expected too much from them and now I'm just utterly disappointed by how this eneded.

Yeah, it felt too easy for Shallan to get out of there. Just armor, Shardblade and Shardshield, a couple of words - and that's it... I would at least expect Ghostbloods to have that anti-Radiant fabrial from RoW or something else, but they were absolutely unaware of what can happen, though they knew Shallan is going to hunt them. And they've even spent a rare anti-Stormlight bolt and let Shallan know more about it. I'm disappointed with this too 

[StanLemon]

8 minutes ago, Sedside said:

Yeah, it felt too easy for Shallan to get out of there. Just armor, Shardblade and Shardshield, a couple of words - and that's it... I would at least expect Ghostbloods to have that anti-Radiant fabrial from RoW or something else, but they were absolutely unaware of what can happen, though they knew Shallan is going to hunt them. And they've even spent a rare anti-Stormlight bolt and let Shallan know more about it. I'm disappointed with this too 

So much for Mraize's boast of "most powerful organization in the Cosmere"

Edited November 4, 2024 by StanLemon

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Ghostblood access to corrupted Transportation explains how they plan to follow Dalinar.

Wh are you saying that the Transportation is corrupted? In Renarin's case the corrupted surge is only tenously connected to the conventional surge. THey straight up teleported. That suggests elsecalling. So their Soulcasting or Stoneshaping should be corrupted.

4 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

And our Unmade is interested in Honorblades. Makes sense.

So because he/she/it is interrested in Honorblades, he/she/it goes to the one monastery that hasn't held a Honorblade for thousands of years.

[teknopathetic he/him]

7 minutes ago, Sedside said:

Yeah, it felt too easy for Shallan to get out of there. Just armor, Shardblade and Shardshield, a couple of words - and that's it... I would at least expect Ghostbloods to have that anti-Radiant fabrial from RoW or something else, but they were absolutely unaware of what can happen, though they knew Shallan is going to hunt them. And they've even spent a rare anti-Stormlight bolt and let Shallan know more about it. I'm disappointed with this too 

Which is why I think Shallan was the one who got tricked. The meeting was far too obvious and too large just in order to talk about nothing…

The Ghostbloods are more likely to have given away their now useless pieces in order to get closer to their Mishram goal. Seeing how Shallan is always a step behind, I can’t imagine this being the time she wins. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by teknopathetic

[alder24]

15 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Assuming she's an Elsecaller. Considering Lieke was the one helping the other Ghostbloods escape and lingered to wait for Mraize and Iyatil. He may very well be the one capable of Elsecalling

If Lieke also is bonded, which we don't know. We only know that both Mraize and Iyatil are.

15 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Even if that is true, the quarrel wasn't charged with raw anti-investiture. It was charged with anti-Stormlight presumably.

Doesn't matter. Any anti-investiture will react with any investiture. If they match, the reaction is stronger. But humans were on Roshar for 7000 years, they've been invested with investiture of Shards present in the system, every human have Honor's investiture in them - "Honor isn't dead as long as he lives in hearts of man."

Spoiler

R'Shara

Does anti-Investiture react to a different Shard’s Investiture in any significant way?

Brandon Sanderson

The answer is kind of a no, kind of a yes. Mostly a no. Anti-Investiture is going to have an explosive reaction. But the thing is, if it’s anti-Investiture of a specific Shard, that explosion is much grander. But you can make that explosion happen in a just antimatter-and-matter same sort of thing. But you can make the explosion bigger.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

 

11 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

And our Unmade is interested in Honorblades. Makes sense.

There was no Honorblade there (at least before WoR if Shins stole Taln's blade). I think Odium just really, really hates Taln - the Thaylen temple of Taln was the most destroyed temple in the city. He probably ordered his Unmade to take over this temple because of it. 

Edit:

Just now, teknopathetic said:

Which is why I think Shallan was the one who got tricked. The meeting was far too obvious in order to talk about nothing. 

The Ghostbloods are more likely to have given away their now useless pieces in order to get closer to their Mishram goal. 

Iyatil was clear in last week's chapter - she didn't expect Shallan to infiltrate and was surprised that Shallan impersonated as one of her own people. There is nothing more to it, no trick. They've been outsmarted too quickly, which we have to accept, even if this is disappointing. 

Edited November 4, 2024 by alder24

[Ashbringer he/him]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Wh are you saying that the Transportation is corrupted? In Renarin's case the corrupted surge is only tenously connected to the conventional surge. THey straight up teleported. That suggests elsecalling. So their Soulcasting or Stoneshaping should be corrupted.

We haven't seen Jasnah "straight up teleport" yet. We've barely seen her go into the Cognitive. It's Transportation, clearly, but what form it takes we don't know. I think it's corrupted because there's a callout to a voidlight color when it's activated - I forget if Renarin can use Voidlight to fuel his abilities.

Also Elsecallers seem to learn Soulcasting first, then Elsecalling. Most orders follow that pattern of higher-Surge-first except Bondsmiths.

4 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

So because he/she/it is interrested in Honorblades, he/she/it goes to the one monastery that hasn't held a Honorblade for thousands of years.

Yep!

And presumably all the other ones. Re-Shephir sat in an empty Urithiru for a few thousand years, too. Unmade are weird.

A hatred of Taln would make sense, but the Unmade don't go back to Braize, so they'd have a bit less reason to hate him than Odium would. Or Fused... I wonder what Leshwi thinks of him, or if that's just a conversation you shouldn't bring up at Thanksgiving dinner.

[Lord Spirit he/him]

My favorite was definitely “Facing a Shardbearer without Shards was not a wise proposition. Unless you were a storm-faced bridgeman, of course.” 

Shallan had to mention Kaladin XD

 

[Darvys]

I almost forgot that Radiant is just a fabrication, for half a second I expected her to rush in there and pull a Kaladin, but no, she's still just a barely trained young woman with no real mundane combat experience, so yeah she just stood there and let them run away, was kinda funny I liked it.

Curious what Jasnah's reaction to potential enemy Elsecallers out there, for a while I've been wanting to know what she feels and thinks about being the only one still while other orders flourish around her, probably views it as a personal failure deep down if I had to guess.

Edited November 4, 2024 by Darvys

[Dofurion]

1 hour ago, Atlas333 said:

Makes sense considering their msision. But that means that they've either bonded light spren or ink spren. It could be either but my money is on Ink Spren. We've seen ink spren already accept enlightenment and as far as I'm aware light spren prefer parshendi.

I'm betting on Lightspren, if we follow the possible pattern that Renarin gives us, the only type of Enlightened Spren that can use conventional Transportation are those.

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

If any group found an alternative to Raysium, it would be the Scadrians!

Duralumin.

--

I wonder if Shallan tried to reconvert that anti-light into normal light, in theory Illumination can do that.

Edited November 4, 2024 by Dofurion

[Sedside she/her]

19 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

Which is why I think Shallan was the one who got tricked. The meeting was far too obvious and too large just in order to talk about nothing…

The Ghostbloods are more likely to have given away their now useless pieces in order to get closer to their Mishram goal. Seeing how Shallan is always a step behind, I can’t imagine this being the time she wins. 

That's what I'm secretly hoping for as well, though the hope is frail, to be honest. It's just an overall feeling for Shallan's plot line in WaT so far. Speaking the Ideal, using substantiation, besting that new Abidi Fused like a piece of cake and now this... I don't know.

[teknopathetic he/him]

1 hour ago, Sedside said:

That's what I'm secretly hoping for as well, though the hope is frail, to be honest. It's just an overall feeling for Shallan's plot line in WaT so far. Speaking the Ideal, using substantiation, besting that new Abidi Fused like a piece of cake and now this... I don't know.

My best guesses are:

1. that the “we have spren” was a lie for some reason. If everyone thinks the Ghostbloods can elsecall, maybe they won’t be looking for something else. As far as we know, the teleportation surge doesn’t come easily to that order and I doubt the Ghostbloods have sworn so many oaths so soon (unless oaths aren’t needed in the same way with enlightened spren if you’re not expressly trying to be a radiant) 

2. The invested items in the Trophy Case are traps. The Ghostbloods know Navani will want to study them. These items will be taken to Navani in order to start messing some things up.

3. Some counter operative happened against Shallan’s people. Over and over again there are cases of the Court being unexpectedly slow during this mission. 
 

4. [edit] The Ghostbloods want to drop seeds that Mraize may flip over to team Dalinar (in order to pull a double cross)

Edited November 4, 2024 by teknopathetic

[Slayd_07]

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Only if they are using Raysium points should the plate or shield be in danger. Feels like Shallan didnt need to do that. 

I'm pretty sure the bolt did have a Raysium tip. The Ghostbloods probably scrounged it from fallen Fused in Urithiru. And to their credit, it was absolutely a valuable use of Raysium. Getting hit by that completely disabled Shallan, and probably would for any Radiant. (Though not someone who can use Voidlight to power their abilities! I think I'm beginning to see why getting Renarin in on Shallan's mission is a good idea!)

[Ashbringer he/him]

13 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

I wonder if Shallan tried to reconvert that anti-light into normal light, in theory Illumination can do that.

Maybe? But she’d need Light to do fuel that Illumination, which is the problem in the first place.

[Sedside she/her]

2 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

My best guesses are:

1. that the “we have spren” was a lie for some reason. If everyone thinks the Ghostbloods can elsecall, maybe they won’t be looking for something else. As far as we know, the teleportation surge doesn’t come easily to that order and I doubt the Ghostbloods have sworn so many oaths so soon (unless oaths aren’t needed in the same way with enlightened spren if you’re not expressly trying to be a radiant) 

2. The invested items in the Trophy Case are traps. The Ghostbloods know Navani will want to study them. These items will be taken to Navani in order to start messing some things up.

I would add to this that Mraize was acting strangely, smiling and talking to Shallan, and Iyatil also was kind of suspicious about him. Maybe he was the one who expected Shallan to come, and Iyatil was unaware, so Mraize could have left some tidbits for Shallan there to find after Ghostbloods left. If he has to play the prey he could at least be a clever prey and mislead the hunter?

[Wanguu He/Him]

53 minutes ago, mdross81 said:

What do we think would have happened if the anti-light arrow struck one of Shallan’s Stormlight illusions?

 

We've seen that the illusions are like gaseous stormlight, so my guess is that where it hits there would be a flash of light and it would destabilize the illusion. It probably wouldn't use much anti-light.

[Lightspine]

Speaking of Shallan's illusion tactic, I doubt Iyatil was simply getting lucky:

Quote

Shallan dove to the side while breathing out and purposely ejecting all of her Stormlight. With some, she created two illusions: one of her jumping in the other direction, another staying in place.

Iyatil tracked the correct Shallan, then loosed.

Could she have some sort of ability that lets her identify illusions? It feels like something Allomantic bronze might be able to accomplish, or maybe Allomantic tin can make it easier to see through a lightweaving?

On the other hand, if she did have such an ability wouldn't that make the white sand illusion detection method pointless?

[+Child of Hodor]

25 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

My best guesses are:

1. that the “we have spren” was a lie for some reason. If everyone thinks the Ghostbloods can elsecall, maybe they won’t be looking for something else. As far as we know, the teleportation surge doesn’t come easily to that order and I doubt the Ghostbloods have sworn so many oaths so soon (unless oaths aren’t needed in the same way with enlightened spren if you’re not expressly trying to be a radiant) 

 

I'm not at all convinced they have spren either or at least haven't bonded them with a nahel bond. We know Mraize didn't have a spren bond as of a couple days ago in story as the one sent to Urithiru picked Rlain instead. It's unlikely he got one so quickly after the last one rejected him. Shallan jumped to the conclusion that they bonded radiant spren really fast, understandably, but that's how Brandon gets us. He has a major character present an assumption as fact. 

Maybe I'm totally off and they bonded spren, but it seems like a classic Brandon misdirection.