WaT Chapters 14 / 15

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Well, seems like we are really getting into the meat of things.

 

That hoid stuff was intense. It was really cool to see him use his allomancy. 

 

Jasnah said that he went through a physical change....not an illusory one. What does this mean? Is hoid substantiating like shallan? Is this similar to Returned changing their appearance?

 

I would like to know what hoid was writing in his notebook. Obviously its a key for memories, but I need details!

 

It seemed like he measured his own investiture with the sand and then calculated how much time he was missing based on that change. Really really cool. 

 

Im interested to see where Navani and Sibling head. The disagreement between them and Navani being trapped at the tower seem to be setting up bigger things. 

 

I need the Cultivation / Dalinar conversation now! 

[BinarySecond]

3 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I need the Cultivation / Dalinar conversation now! 

Next Chapter:

A road trip to Shinovar 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Just now, BinarySecond said:

Next Chapter:

A road trip to Shinovar 

Of course 

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Well, it seems Dalinar will probably be getting a heads up about Odium's change in management, unless of course Cultivation decides to not do that for some incredibly stupid and arbitrary reason.

[listerfeend]

5 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Jasnah said that he went through a physical change....not an illusory one. What does this mean? Is hoid substantiating like shallan? Is this similar to Returned changing their appearance?

I think we've had a WoB that Hoid can do that in a similar way to the Returned, but I can't find it and I don't recall precisely what was said.

So, massive enemy troop movements on multiple fronts, T is already changing the game drastically. Poor Hoid doesn't even realize what exactly he's missing. It should be a clue to him that things are very different from what he'd expect from Rayze though. I wonder how long till Dal and Pals figure that twist out.

I'm betting that Navani and the Sibling are going to come up with fabrial tech 3.0, some kind of mix between the trapping non-consenting spren and the inefficient use of consenting ones. I'll bet that is going to be even more powerful/efficient than either of the two before. Navani not needing to sleep, and being restricted to the tower are both very interesting. I wonder if there are things that Dalinar can do beyond the Bondsmithing that comes with bonding SF that we haven't seen yet. 

 

[CtrlAltDepressed]

Just now, JustQuestin2004 said:

Well, it seems Dalinar will probably be getting a heads up about Odium's change in management, unless of course Cultivation decides to not do that for some incredibly stupid and arbitrary reason.

I hadn't even considered that. 

 

If she does tell him, I expect Dalinar to be LIVID.

 

If she doesnt tell him, I would expect that to be the reason why. This hasnt exactly gone how she hope (TOdium still wants to kill all the other shards)

 

Dal: 'You're telling me you had the opportunity to shatter a vessel-less shard, and instead you provided a much more capable and terrifying opponent?'

Cult: 'Yup, have fun!'

[listerfeend]

Also, interesting that the epigraphs are back to the Way of Kings

 

[therunner he/him]

As expected fabrials are not Invested enough to resist Allomancy (at least the Lerasium-level kind).

Navani cannot leave Tower for long, again as expected. Perhaps with higher Oaths the range/time interval will get larger, like for other Orders.

Towerlight leaks faster than Stormlight, that is interesting. Or is it that it can exist only within certain distance of Tower and it evaporates outside of it?

[+Child of Hodor]

I really enjoyed the ___ was not asleep repetitions. Cultivation being direct, I assume, with our main characters is refreshing. I guess Dalinar and then Hoid will find out about the change in Vessel shortly. 

[Ninth of the Night]

My first thought when starting chapter 14 was "dang, this day is STACKED with character POVs!"

I fear that we will be losing at least one of them before the day is up...

[Through the Living Shadow he/him]

40 minutes ago, therunner said:

As expected fabrials are not Invested enough to resist Allomancy (at least the Lerasium-level kind).

Well isn’t the metal uninvested? Just the gem, right?

[alder24]

I was expecting interlude 3, but we’re sadly getting straight into Day 2. And wow, that’s a lot of PoV characters. Like, ALL of them. 

And that’s an interesting choice, the Way of Kings is back in the epigraphs. I wonder what’s inside - will we find the Words Gavilar missed? Oh yeah, definitely judging that the very first paragraphs were about Gavilar. 

Wit visiting other worlds at night? Was that literal or was that about him looking through his memories? How would he even do that within one night?

The Jasnah part wasn’t anything new, almost exactly the same as the reading earlier. Fabrials aren’t invested enough to resist Allomancy (good to know for the incoming Roshar vs Scadrial ver 10.0 thread). I find it interesting that the Sibling was able to dictate the exact words of the contract between Dalinar and Odium - why them and how?

Lifespren attracted to Navani?? That’s a surprise. I did think that each Bondsmith has its one type of platespren, but I thought Lifespren would be Nightwatcher’s spren, not the Siblings. Well, there is still a chance because many other types of spren are following Navani, but Lifespren seem to be dominating. 

The Towerlight itself is what makes Radiants super powerful, not the Sibling? So there probably is a way to use it outside of the Tower and make knights even more OP than they are. Did anybody tried to capture it in a perfect gemstone? I don’t really like this idea. 

Wow, the bond between the Sibling and Navani seems even deeper than that of Dalinar and the Stormfather. Navani is literally part of the Tower to the point that she doesn’t have to sleep. Is that because the Sibling is physically in the Physical Realm, like a Shardblade? If that’s the case, what would happen to Dalinar if the Stormfather were to be manifested as a Shardblade (like in OB but fully)? And it’s even more interesting that Navani can’t leave the Tower without weakening her bond - can’t an unchained Bondsmith change this and strengthen their bond? I hope not and that this and the Towerlight problems will remain as restricted as they are right now, despite Navani hoping to change this. Radiants are already way too OP compared to other Cosmere invested entities, making them virtually indestructible everywhere is too much.

The second epigraph is interesting. Nohadon couldn’t understand their language, which means he either wasn’t a Bondsmith (if Radiants were even established back then and I think not, but there were Surgebinders), or was bonded to the Sibling. In the past Brandon RAFO’d questions about this, but said weirdness was involved (example) - the Sbibling might fit this weirdness. 

Adolin’s chapter, called Passionspren, in which Adolin expresses how he’s more angry at his father than before, with lots of emotion spren, including Passionspren, flying around Adolin. Foreshadowing? I think it's somewhat plausible that Adolin might be tricked or persuaded by TOdium to be his champion, or stand against Dalinar in some other way, this chapter worries me it might be true. But on the other hand Gavinor is having nightmares - TOdium’s doing or just regular nightmares due to his trauma? Another foreshadowing or are those all red herrings?

Wait, both Thunderclasts? Does it mean Odium has ONLY two Thunderclasts? That’s disappointing, especially that one was fully killed by Nightblood in OB. Is that why only one was spotted? I like them, I want more of them, they are way cooler than Fused.

Oh boy, Cultivation has not wasted ANY time after Taravangian pushed her away, she went straight to Dalinar in a human form. Was that a body she made, or a body she possessed? Will she tell him about Taravangian Ascending? Storms, that’s probably the first time in thousands of years when Cultivation intervened directly outside of the Valley - it has to be really bad to make her do this. I want more! I hate this cliffhanger! 

Three offensives. One from Shadesmer on Azir with some Heavenly Fused, second is the naval invasion on Thaylen supported by hundreds of Skybreakers, third with one thousand Fused and at least one Thunderclust aiming directly at the Shattered Plains. That’s a lot of Fused in total - and a lot of troops and planning needed to be done prior to all those attacks. This indicates to me that at least Azish and Thaylen attacks were planned by Rayse, Fused could have been moved fast enough by Taravangian without any logistics and preparation on the third new target, but I think it was still Rayse who planned all of this. And if that's all Rayse's doing, we still don't know what Taravangian's changes are.

EDIT:

I forgot, it’s surprising that Mraize is still in the Tower when Shallan is going to hunt him down, which should be super easy, barely an inconvenience  - just ask the Sibling to find him. Unless he has a Smoker or his Aviar hides him, he should be spotted immediately.

Edited September 23, 2024 by alder24

[Erklitt]

Things have definitely sped up. 

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

I need the Cultivation / Dalinar conversation now! 

1 hour ago, BinarySecond said:

Next Chapter:

A road trip to Shinovar 

Let's have both, please! While Cultivation and Dalinar is a very nice cliffhanger, I also can't wait to see Kaladin and Szeth arriving in Shinovar. I had hoped so much for that today.

But now I also want to see the meeting between Cultivation and Wit. Since they're not on speaking terms... will they hiss at one another? Bark? Claw? 

And whom is Wit going to try and contact, I wonder? Isn't Sazed still too 'new' and also too 'balanced' to be of much help? Vasher is on Roshar, so Wit doesn't consider him to be able to help. Frost made his non-interference clear. So who?

Edit: could it be Khriss? Seems unlikely at first glance, but after all, this is in her coppermind description (emphasis mine):

Quote

Khriss is one of the most accomplished scholars of investiture in the cosmere. She knows more about the cosmere and its magic systems than [...] Hoid, who has been alive since before the Shattering.

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by Erklitt

[CtrlAltDepressed]

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I find it interesting that the Sibling was able to dictate the exact words of the contract between Dalinar and Odium - why them and how?

I guess that means Stormfather, if he wasnt there for it, should be able to 'find' the contract too. I wonder if this is only because they are of Honor, and therefore are tangentially a part of the contract, or if all spren like entities could find this contract. 

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Wit visiting other worlds at night? Was that literal or was that about him looking through his memories? How would he even do that within one night?

Man, so hard to tell! This could totally be a 'Hoid knows how to astral project around the cosmere' or it could totally be Jasnah interpreting him filtering memories as visiting other worlds. 

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

The Towerlight itself is what makes Radiants super powerful, not the Sibling? So there probably is a way to use it outside of the Tower and make knights even more OP than they are. Did anybody tried to capture it in a perfect gemstone? I don’t really like this idea. 

That seemed to me to be about infinite light making them invincible, not that Towerlight itself makes the Radiants stronger. That could be wrong though.

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I did think that each Bondsmith has its one type of platespren, but I thought Lifespren would be Nightwatcher’s spren, not the Siblings.

It seems like Bondsmiths dont get plate? There was a thread on that - seems unclear

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think it's somewhat plausible that Adolin might be tricked or persuaded by TOdium to be his champion, or stand against Dalinar in some other way,

Agreed. I have seen the Adolin as Odiums champion theory, and until this passage, I saw no evidence that could happen. Maybe this is a red herring red herring, and Adolin is actually about to become our first true Voidbinder. 

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Wait, both Thunderclasts? Does it mean Odium has ONLY two Thunderclasts? That’s disappointing, especially that one was fully killed by Nightblood in OB. Is that why only one was spotted? I like them, I want more of them, they are way cooler than Fused.

This was disappointing for me too. You only have 3 (1 dead to nightblood, 'both' remaining)? Seriously? They are the Fused equivalent of siege machines, and you only have 3 after 8000+ years?

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Oh boy, Cultivation has not wasted ANY time after Taravangian pushed her away, she went straight to Dalinar in a human form. Was that a body she made, or a body she possessed?

Dalinar recognized it as the body she wore when he went to the valley, so Im guessing its a manifestation that she made. Its interesting that we dont see the Sibling comment on her arrival. Sibling has been basically dead for thousands of years, she finally awakes, and her mother goes to talk to Dalinar lol. Of course it could have been off screen but yea, just thought that was funny. 

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I forgot, it’s surprising that Mraize is still in the Tower when Shallan is going to hunt him down, which should be super easy, barely an inconvenience  - just ask the Sibling to find him. Unless he has a Smoker or his Aviar hides him, he should be spotted immediately.

Even if he has investiture blocking abilities, the Sibling should be able to find him physically or mechanically. Someone activated the elevator, but i cant detect them, sound the alarm! Theres someone walking on me that I cant detect, sound the alarm! This shouldnt be hard for Sibling to do regardless of what abilities Mraize has access to IMO.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[listerfeend]

19 minutes ago, alder24 said:

The Towerlight itself is what makes Radiants super powerful, not the Sibling? So there probably is a way to use it outside of the Tower and make knights even more OP than they are. Did anybody tried to capture it in a perfect gemstone? I don’t really like this idea. 

I think it's physical proximity to the tower that is going to be the limitation here. She said

Quote

 Humans cannot hold my Light; they are too full of holes.

The only reason it works like that in the Tower is because she's basically acting like Dal's perp for the immediate vicinity. What I'm getting at is: I don't think Towerlight is in anyway more "OP" than Stormlight, it's just that it's constantly suffusing the tower and the Radiants within, giving them unlimited access to Investiture, and, by proxy, giving things like their illusions and lashings unlimited Investiture to function. They aren't "super powerful" they are just "constantly powerful".

I imagine higher oaths from Navani will both extend her distance and longevity away from the tower, but she'll still have to return with decreasing frequency as her Oath Level™ increases. Potentially at 5th Ideal she'd be able to go an indefinite distance for an indefinite amount of time? 

34 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Wit visiting other worlds at night? Was that literal or was that about him looking through his memories? How would he even do that within one night?

I suspect this is exactly what we saw in TSM when Hoid showed up all Force Ghost like on Canticle. I'm being told by @CtrlAltDepressed that it is a different thing, but I really see no reason to suspect that it is. And, even if it is different somehow, we have seen him "Astral Project" across the Cosmere once before, it's not super surprising that he could now. It may be a misinterpretation of Jasnah's but, I really doubt it, just based on who Jasnah is. She may be "ignorant" of the Cosmere at large at this time, but she's not prone to misinterpreting that bad. 

[Erklitt]

36 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Wit visiting other worlds at night?

13 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This could totally be a 'Hoid knows how to astral project around the cosmere'

That just reminded me of how he talked to Nomad in TSM. Whole new worlds to explore there! (Pun intended.)

[listerfeend]

So, interesting thing @CtrlAltDepressed and I were just speaking about. Hoid wakes up, and has Allomantic Metals ready to go? I know poisoning from the metals wouldn't even register as a passing thought to Hoid, but he still digests...so is he constantly re-upping his supply of metals every day? Does he "selectively" digest stuff, and therefore doesn't digest the metals? OR the most interesting thought, was he able to power ALL of that with Towerlight? If anyone we've seen on screen can do something like that, it would be him, and that would be absolutely astounding.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

2 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

I know poisoning from the metals wouldn't even register as a passing thought to Hoid, but he still digests...so is he constantly re-upping his supply of metals every day? Does he "selectively" digest stuff, and therefore doesn't digest the metals? OR the most interesting thought, was he able to power ALL of that with Towerlight? If anyone we've seen on screen can do something like that, it would be him, and that would be absolutely astounding.

Personally I think powering his Allomancy with Towerlight is the most likely, though I find it really funny to imagine some poor blacksmith getting a vial of steel shavings for the Kings Wit, and then watching him E A T them

[Confused]

Too soon for me to think through all the stuff raised by this selection. I'll leave my weekly limerick summary, then go cogitate a bit more. The one thing I will say is that physical love does NOT end when you turn 70!!! In case you were wondering...  

Our heroes are wakeful, can’t sleep.

Three cities attacked in one leap!

With love in the air,

So many are bare.

Soon they will die and we’ll weep.

All the best! C.

[The Sovereign]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Wit visiting other worlds at night? Was that literal or was that about him looking through his memories? How would he even do that within one night?

I would guess it is some type of Cognitive projection like we saw in RoW on Braize with Kaladin. Or in Sunlit Man on Canticle with Nomad.

The Towerlight itself is what makes Radiants super powerful, not the Sibling? So there probably is a way to use it outside of the Tower and make knights even more OP than they are. Did anybody tried to capture it in a perfect gemstone? I don’t really like this idea. 

Towerlight is likely similar to the Mists on Scadrial in that they are the essence of the Sibling's power. I.E. the Towerlight is the Sibling.

Oh boy, Cultivation has not wasted ANY time after Taravangian pushed her away, she went straight to Dalinar in a human form. Was that a body she made, or a body she possessed? Will she tell him about Taravangian Ascending? Storms, that’s probably the first time in thousands of years when Cultivation intervened directly outside of the Valley - it has to be really bad to make her do this. I want more! I hate this cliffhanger! 

I suspect she is just manifesting a body with her power. We just saw Odium do it in the Interludes.

 

[Wanguu He/Him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I was expecting interlude 3, but we’re sadly getting straight into Day 2.

I expect that most if not all of the days will be separated by interludes. I was suprised to see that it's just day two, and not two & three or something. I suspect we'll be getting even more than 12 interludes.

[alder24]

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Man, so hard to tell! This could totally be a 'Hoid knows how to astral project around the cosmere'

Oh yeah, I forgot about that...

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

It seems like Bondsmiths dont get plate? There was a thread on that - seems unclear

Most likely they do, even the Stormfather said to Dalinar in OB that he/they needs to say the words - 4th Ideal. No Bondsmith is on that level yet.

1 hour ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This was disappointing for me too. You only have 3 (1 dead to nightblood, 'both' remaining)? Seriously? They are the Fused equivalent of siege machines, and you only have 3 after 8000+ years?

I think Odium had 2 before "the Nightblood accident" and Dalinar and others simply don't know Nightblood consumes the soul itself so they still expect to see 2 of them.

 

1 hour ago, listerfeend said:

The only reason it works like that in the Tower is because she's basically acting like Dal's perp for the immediate vicinity. What I'm getting at is: I don't think Towerlight is in anyway more "OP" than Stormlight, it's just that it's constantly suffusing the tower and the Radiants within, giving them unlimited access to Investiture, and, by proxy, giving things like their illusions and lashings unlimited Investiture to function. They aren't "super powerful" they are just "constantly powerful".

I hope that's the case, but if so why would they want to send the light outside of the Tower if it is just like Stormlight? Why would the Sibling say it's about human leakyness? They have Stormlight, a lot of Stormlight, they don't really need any new Towerlight - unless it does something else. That was my line of thought. However, it makes more sense if it's just as potent as Stormlight, but it's just unlimited. 

1 hour ago, listerfeend said:

So, interesting thing @CtrlAltDepressed and I were just speaking about. Hoid wakes up, and has Allomantic Metals ready to go? I know poisoning from the metals wouldn't even register as a passing thought to Hoid, but he still digests...so is he constantly re-upping his supply of metals every day? Does he "selectively" digest stuff, and therefore doesn't digest the metals? OR the most interesting thought, was he able to power ALL of that with Towerlight? If anyone we've seen on screen can do something like that, it would be him, and that would be absolutely astounding.

Or another option - small piercings. He can just burn everything that pierces his skin. While it's definitely possible he could power it with Towerlight, Metallic Arts were said to be harder to fuel by external sources. Unkeying Towerlight might be required, even for Hoid. I think it's hard to say how he powered his Allomancy at this moment.

Spoiler

Questioner

So you said that different Investitures from different worlds can fuel different Investitures, right? Would that mean that you could potentially use Stormlight for Allomancy and/or Feruchemy?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, a little harder with the Metallic Arts than, for instance, Nightblood is the easiest example. He can just feed on whatever Investiture is around.

[...]

Barnes & Noble B-Fest 2016 (June 11, 2016)

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by alder24

[CtrlAltDepressed]

18 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think Odium had 2 before "the Nightblood accident" and Dalinar and others simply don't know Nightblood consumes the soul itself so they still expect to see 2 of them.

Probably accurate. 

18 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I hope that's the case, but if so why would they want to send the light outside of the Tower if it is just like Stormlight? Why would the Sibling say it's about human leakyness? They have Stormlight, a lot of Stormlight, they don't really need any new Towerlight - unless it does something else. That was my line of thought. However, it makes more sense if it's just as potent as Stormlight, but it's just unlimited. 

I think that line of thinking was more about being able to give gems of towerlight to Radiants before they leave, rather than relying on Stormlight alone. That makes sense to me as Dalinar is probably too busy to be refilling spheres all the time, and is only one man. He cant be at every battle to refuel. If Navani found a way to make Towerlight last as long as Stormlight in gems, they would be able to refuel Radiants a lot easier. 

18 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Or another option - small piercings. He can just burn everything that pierces his skin.

I would think the Dawnshard effects would prevent him from piercing himself. 

 

Edited September 23, 2024 by CtrlAltDepressed

[listerfeend]

Just now, CtrlAltDepressed said:

18 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I hope that's the case, but if so why would they want to send the light outside of the Tower if it is just like Stormlight? Why would the Sibling say it's about human leakyness? They have Stormlight, a lot of Stormlight, they don't really need any new Towerlight - unless it does something else. That was my line of thought. However, it makes more sense if it's just as potent as Stormlight, but it's just unlimited. 

I think that line of thinking was more about being able to give gems of towerlight to Radiants before they leave, rather than relying on Stormlight alone. That makes sense to me as Dalinar is probably too busy to be refilling spheres all the time, and is only one man. He cant be at every battle to refuel. If Navani found a way to make Towerlight last as long as Stormlight in gems, they would be able to refuel Radiants a lot easier. 

It could also just be Navani doing experiments to see the limitations and powers of Towerlight...

[Ashbringer he/him]

2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Even if he has investiture blocking abilities, the Sibling should be able to find him physically or mechanically. Someone activated the elevator, but i cant detect them, sound the alarm! Theres someone walking on me that I cant detect, sound the alarm! This shouldnt be hard for Sibling to do regardless of what abilities Mraize has access to IMO.

This might work, but it also might depend on how Copperclouds / Aviar / similar things work. Does it deaden just the Life-sense of the person, or does it also deaden the other responses that might be given around that person (like elevator activation or footsteps)? The Sibling also does mention that they only see what they're paying attention to.

Could also be something the Sibling isn't concerned about, until directly asked - and Shallan doesn't know most of what the Sibling can do. Spren think differently than humans (the Sibling even more so) and the characters have other things to be thinking about.