How Surgebinding is of Cultivation

[Steel Speedster ♂]

It's possible that this is actually common knowledge, but I only just thought of it recently, so forgive me if I'm stating the obvious.

For all Invested Arts, the way you access the Investiture is related to the Shard that it is connected to. On Scadrial for example, the use of Allomancy preserves your own strength by giving you power directly from Preservation, and the mechanic of Snapping could be thought of as a form of self-preservation. We also have Hemalurgy where you are required to destroy another person in order to get power. On Nalthis, it all works on principles of giving, which matches the Intent of Endowment.

On Roshar, Surgebinding is connected to both Honor and Cultivation. The Oaths system is clearly related to Honor, but what about Cultivation? We see that the Oaths actually inspire character growth. In order to access more power, you have to improve and become better (with each stage marked by a new Oath, relating back to Honor.)

Just a little something I noticed. I thought it was neat how interconnected the two aspects of Surgebinding were. Sorry again if this has already been pointed out.

[Argenti he/him]

1 hour ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

It's possible that this is actually common knowledge, but I only just thought of it recently, so forgive me if I'm stating the obvious.

For all Invested Arts, the way you access the Investiture is related to the Shard that it is connected to. On Scadrial for example, the use of Allomancy preserves your own strength by giving you power directly from Preservation, and the mechanic of Snapping could be thought of as a form of self-preservation. We also have Hemalurgy where you are required to destroy another person in order to get power. On Nalthis, it all works on principles of giving, which matches the Intent of Endowment.

On Roshar, Surgebinding is connected to both Honor and Cultivation. The Oaths system is clearly related to Honor, but what about Cultivation? We see that the Oaths actually inspire character growth. In order to access more power, you have to improve and become better (with each stage marked by a new Oath, relating back to Honor.)

Just a little something I noticed. I thought it was neat how interconnected the two aspects of Surgebinding were. Sorry again if this has already been pointed out.

You would be correct in your guess! The levels of Surgebinding, personal growth, all of this stuff is related to cultivation. Good Idea!

[Quantus he/him]

2 hours ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

It's possible that this is actually common knowledge, but I only just thought of it recently, so forgive me if I'm stating the obvious.

For all Invested Arts, the way you access the Investiture is related to the Shard that it is connected to. On Scadrial for example, the use of Allomancy preserves your own strength by giving you power directly from Preservation, and the mechanic of Snapping could be thought of as a form of self-preservation. We also have Hemalurgy where you are required to destroy another person in order to get power. On Nalthis, it all works on principles of giving, which matches the Intent of Endowment.

On Roshar, Surgebinding is connected to both Honor and Cultivation. The Oaths system is clearly related to Honor, but what about Cultivation? We see that the Oaths actually inspire character growth. In order to access more power, you have to improve and become better (with each stage marked by a new Oath, relating back to Honor.)

Just a little something I noticed. I thought it was neat how interconnected the two aspects of Surgebinding were. Sorry again if this has already been pointed out.

I definitely agree! The Radiant progression of Ideals definitely seems to be Cultivations influence. 

On the other hand, this WOB implies that the classic Ten Surges are Honor's set, Voidbinding will be Odium's set of Surges, and that Cultivation has her own set of Ten Surges that we may not have actually seen yet.  That last can lead down a rabbithole of theory involving Maya and the Recreance and a new form of emerging Radiant (and Im not sure how many Ive convinced yet).  

 

Quote

 

BenFoley

You have stated in your blog that Mistborn had three magic systems (Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy) and also that The Way of Kings will have upwards of 20. For comparison, how many magic systems would you say the Wheel of Time series has? Two (One Power and the True Power)? How do you classify other abilities (not necessarily related to the One Power or True Power) such as Dreamwalking, viewing the Pattern, Wolfbrother-hoodness, and changing 'luck' or chance? Would you classify these abilities as a magic system in and of themselves? Has your chance to see the background material Robert Jordan left changed how you view these abilities?

Brandon Sanderson

This kind of gets sticky, as it's all up to semantics. Really, you could say that Mistborn had a different magic system for each type of Misting. But at the same time, you could argue that something like X-Men—with huge numbers of powers—all falls under the same blanked 'magic system.' And take Hemalurgy in Mistborn 3—is it a new magic system, or just a reinterpretation of Allomancy and Feruchemy?

So what do I mean by twenty or thirty magic systems in Kings? Hard to say, as I don't want to give spoilers. I have groupings of abilities that have to deal with a certain theme. Transformation, Travel, Pressure and Gravity, that sort of thing. By one way of counting, there are thirty of these—though by another way of grouping them together, there are closer to ten.

Anyway, I'd say that the Wheel of Time has a fair number of Magic systems. The biggest one would be the One Power/True Power, which is more of a blanket "Large" magic system kind of like Allomancy being a blanket for sixteen powers—only the WoT magic system is far larger. I'd count what Perrin/Egwene do in Tel'aran'rhiod as a different magic system. What Mat does as something else, the Talents one can have with the Power something else. Though I'd group all of the Foretelling/Viewing powers into one.

Sounds like a topic for a paper, actually. Any of you academics out there feel like writing one?

Let's just say that The Wheel of Time has a smaller number of larger magic systems, and I tend to use a larger number of smaller magic systems. Confusing enough?

Barnes and Noble Book Club Q&A (July 8, 2009)

 

 

[Argenti he/him]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

I definitely agree! The Radiant progression of Ideals definitely seems to be Cultivations influence. 

On the other hand, this WOB implies that the classic Ten Surges are Honor's set, Voidbinding will be Odium's set of Surges, and that Cultivation has her own set of Ten Surges that we may not have actually seen yet.  That last can lead down a rabbithole of theory involving Maya and the Recreance and a new form of emerging Radiant (and Im not sure how many Ive convinced yet).  

 

 

Don't get me started on life and void binding! Also, note, the old magic is not the magic system of cultivation!

[Dofurion]

To be honest I don't agree. Well literally my first post on a forum in my life was "La Potenciación es únicamente de Honor" which would be translated something like: The Surgebinding is only associated with Honor. My perspective on the matter is based on the following points:

• Origin: Rosharian Surgebinding has its origins primarily from the Honorblades, fragments of Honor itself given to the Heralds. While not an exact comparison, as Mistings existed before their use, this seems to me to be equivalent to the Lerasium beads for Allomancy. And the Sprens begin to grant access to the Surges when imitating Honor's actions.
• History: Regarding the topic of oaths and the personal progression that these theoretically encourage Surgebinders (Radiant Knights), if they are used as a basis to think that as an Invested Art it is related to Cultivation, we have to remember that this is so because of the intervention of Ishar (although I can accept that part of the operation was suggested by Cultivation) and the original Spren Surgebinders were not restricted by oaths.
  Just as they were not subject to separation by levels.
• Externality: Linked to the previous point, if the basis for thinking that it is a hybrid system is that it works based on the Sprens (formed by both Honor and Cultivation investiture) we have to take into account that the use of an investiture of a Shard outside the system to work for it, does not mean that it is a system dependent on that shard. Suppose that in Scadrial during Era 1 there had been more Atium alloy mines and that the Mistings understood that only those metals are the ones they can use to exercise their skills, this would not make Allomancy an Invested Art associated with Ruin and Preservation at the same time, it would continue to be an exclusive Preservation system.

While I would love to see a hybrid system on Roshar based on the data we have, I honestly don't think that's the Surgebinding.

Edited July 17, 2024 by Dofurion

[alder24]

35 minutes ago, Dofurion said:

To be honest I don't agree. Well literally my first post on a forum in my life was "La Potenciación es únicamente de Honor" which would be translated something like: The Surgebinding is only associated with Honor. My perspective on the matter is based on the following points:

• Origin: Rosharian Surgebinding has its origins primarily from the Honorblades, fragments of Honor itself given to the Heralds. While not an exact comparison, as Mistings existed before their use, this seems to me to be equivalent to the Lerasium beads for Allomancy. And the Sprens begin to grant access to the Surges when imitating Honor's actions.
• History: Regarding the topic of oaths and the personal progression that these theoretically encourage Surgebinders (Radiant Knights), if they are used as a basis to think that as an Invested Art it is related to Cultivation, we have to remember that this is so because of the intervention of Ishar (although I can accept that part of the operation was suggested by Cultivation) and the original Spren Surgebinders were not restricted by oaths.
• Externality: Linked to the previous point, if the basis for thinking that it is a hybrid system is that it works based on the Sprens (formed by both Honor and Cultivation investiture) we have to take into account that the use of an investiture of a Shard outside the system to work for it, does not mean that it is a system dependent on that shard. Suppose that in Scadrial during Era 1 there had been more Atium alloy mines and that the Mistings understood that only those metals are the ones they can use to exercise their skills, this would not make Allomancy an Invested Art associated with Ruin and Preservation at the same time, it would continue to be an exclusive Preservation system.

While I would love to see a hybrid system on Roshar based on the data we have, I honestly don't think that's the Surgebinding.

That's not true. It's been confirmed by Brandon that Surgebinding is of both Cultivation and Honor. Keep in mind that every Shard can mimic any other magic system in Cosmere and while Honorblades are fully of Honor (which doesn't mean the invested art they were giving access to was fully of Honor), spren, who are of both Cultivation and Honor, mimicked them and give humans a combined invested art. The division between magic systems on Roshar isn't as clear and well defined as it is on Scadrial - you can call each individual Surge a separate magic system, or each order, or the whole thing - it's unlike Metallic Arts where those divisions are very visible. On Roshar it seems that each Surge is leaning towards either Honor or Cultivation (like Progression is of Cultivation, while Gravitation is of Honor) and the same goes for spren. Similar situation is happening on Sel - every magic system on Sel can be categorized as a subset of one Selish magic system, or can be treated as separate system. 

Spoiler

Crspu

Is there going to be a magic system for every Shard? 

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, yes, whether there'll be books? We get into a problem here... is... what is a magic system, right? 

So for instance like, would you count all of Surgebinding as one magic system, or is it ten magic systems, right? Is Windrunning a separate magic system from Skybreaking. Right, and is it the Surges? Is it that? What do you call a magic system? Is the system of fabrials a magic system, or is it a subset of what's happening on Roshar? And in that case, it's like I delineated it pretty strongly in Mistborn, but in Stormlight, it's like... kind of Surgebinding is kind of Honor and Cultivation, right? And so is there a magic system for each of them or not?

So the answer is yes and no, in that every one of the Shards will inspire really interesting magic systems. But is there a one to one? What do you call a magic system? And beyond that, will I have time to write books about all of these, I don't know. You could even look at Sel. Sel has how many magic systems, is it one? Is it lots? Is Forging a different magic system from AonDor, or is it two aspects of the same magic system and so... It's tricky. 

YouTube Spoiler Stream 2 (June 3, 2021)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

It was mentioned that there are 16 gods in your Cosmere.

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on your definition of god.

Questioner

Shards. Are the ten orders of the Knight Radiants related to specific gods? Because Honor, child of Honor-Kaladin

Brandon Sanderson

So all the magic on Roshar, all the surgebinding on Roshar, is going to have its roots in Honor and Cultivation. Um... There is some Odium influence too, but that’s mostly voidbinding, which is the map in the back of the first book.

Questioner

I was wondering how much-

Brandon Sanderson

But, but even the powers, it’s, it’s really this sort of thing. What’s going in Stormlight is that people are accessing fundamental forces of creation and laws of the universe. They’re accessing them through the filter of Cultivation and Honor. So, that’s not to say, on another world you couldn’t have someone influence gravity. Honor doesn’t belong to gravity. But bonds, and how to deal with bonds, and things like this, is an Honor thing. So the way Honor accesses gravity is, you make a bond between yourself and either a thing or a direction or things like that and you go. So it’s filtered through Honor’s visual, and some of the magics lean more Honor and some them lean more Cultivation, as you can obviously see, in the way that they take place.

Questioner

The question kind of rooted because, Wyndle in the short story is always saying that he’s a cultivationspren, he doesn’t like [...]. I kind of got the idea that each order had a different Shard.

Brandon Sanderson

That is a good thing to think, but that is not how it is. Some of them self-identify more in certain ways. Syl is an honorspren, that’s what they call a honorspren, they self-identify as the closest to Honor. Is that true? Well, I don’t know. For instance, you might talk to different spren, who are like, no, highspren are like “We’re the ones most like Honor. We are the ones that keep oaths the best. Those honorspren will let their people break their oaths if they think it’s for a good cause. That’s not Honor-like.” There would be disagreement.

Questioner

Are you saying that the spren’s view of themself influences how they work?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yeah, and humans’ view of them because spren are pieces of Investiture who have gained sapience, or sentience for the smaller spren, through human perception of those forces. For instance, whether or not Kaladin is keeping an oath is up to what Syl and Kaladin think is keeping that oath. It is not related to capital-T Truth, what is actually keeping the oath. Two windrunners can disagree on whether an oath has been kept or not.

Boskone 54 (Feb. 18, 2017)

 

[Steel Speedster ♂]

2 hours ago, Dofurion said:

To be honest I don't agree. Well literally my first post on a forum in my life was "La Potenciación es únicamente de Honor" which would be translated something like: The Surgebinding is only associated with Honor. My perspective on the matter is based on the following points:

• Origin: Rosharian Surgebinding has its origins primarily from the Honorblades, fragments of Honor itself given to the Heralds. While not an exact comparison, as Mistings existed before their use, this seems to me to be equivalent to the Lerasium beads for Allomancy. And the Sprens begin to grant access to the Surges when imitating Honor's actions.
• History: Regarding the topic of oaths and the personal progression that these theoretically encourage Surgebinders (Radiant Knights), if they are used as a basis to think that as an Invested Art it is related to Cultivation, we have to remember that this is so because of the intervention of Ishar (although I can accept that part of the operation was suggested by Cultivation) and the original Spren Surgebinders were not restricted by oaths.
• Externality: Linked to the previous point, if the basis for thinking that it is a hybrid system is that it works based on the Sprens (formed by both Honor and Cultivation investiture) we have to take into account that the use of an investiture of a Shard outside the system to work for it, does not mean that it is a system dependent on that shard. Suppose that in Scadrial during Era 1 there had been more Atium alloy mines and that the Mistings understood that only those metals are the ones they can use to exercise their skills, this would not make Allomancy an Invested Art associated with Ruin and Preservation at the same time, it would continue to be an exclusive Preservation system.

While I would love to see a hybrid system on Roshar based on the data we have, I honestly don't think that's the Surgebinding.

Ok, interesting. I didn’t think I was saying anything controversial by stating that Surgebinding is of Cultivation. Those are good points, but, as Alder points out, it seems to be pretty definitive that Surgebinding is in fact of Honor and Cultivation.

We really don’t have many tools for matching magic systems to Shards. Allomancy is clearly of Preservation, since it draws Investiture from Preservation. But Feruchemy and Hemalurgy don’t draw Investiture from any Shard—the first draws it from the user, and the second from another person. I don’t think we can definitely match Shards and magic systems, unless Brandon tells us (or in situations where it’s obvious, like Allomancy and Awakening.)

[Dofurion]

1 hour ago, Speeding Steelrunner said:

Ok, interesting. I didn’t think I was saying anything controversial by stating that Surgebinding is of Cultivation. Those are good points, but, as Alder points out, it seems to be pretty definitive that Surgebinding is in fact of Honor and Cultivation.

Yes, I can't really fight against WoB's.
But in that post I made the same debate arose. I can only answer that at this particular point I feel that Brandon is misleading or confused (sometimes it happens to him). If you look at the second WoB before the part pointed out by alder24, he emphasizes a lot that it is Honor that filters the use.
Another thing is that according to my definition [Surgebinder ≠ Surge], since obviously the Surges themselves do not belong to Honor (It is something that was already explained a little in RoW). But the process to manipulate them would be in his charge.

So if you ask me, Roshar is an "all Mistings are using Atium alloys" situation. But hey, that's just my perspective on the matter, I don't intend to change anyone else's. Although I have a sneaking suspicion that in this 5th book we'll end up seeing if I'm right in this regard.

[Steel Speedster ♂]

12 hours ago, Dofurion said:

I can only answer that at this particular point I feel that Brandon is misleading or confused (sometimes it happens to him). If you look at the second WoB before the part pointed out by alder24, he emphasizes a lot that it is Honor that filters the use.

I interpret that as him just using the Surge of Gravitation as an example of what he's talking about. Right before that he says that the Surges are filtered through the lens of Honor and Cultivation.

Also, regarding your point about the honorblades being made of pure Honor, one could argue that the Spren themselves, who are a mix of Honor and Cultivation's Investiture, should be Surgebinding's analogue to the Lerasium beads. Perhaps the Heralds, when using the Honorblades were using a magic system that was only of Honor, but let's not forget that Odium has his own form of Surgebinding as well that looks completely different from what the Knights Radiant use. I honestly have no idea where that fits in with everything else.

But like I said before, I'm not sure we can make any definitive claims. Given the WoBs that we have, however, I currently fall on the Honor and Cultivation side of the argument.

[Confused]

I agree with everyone! Surgebinding is a combined magic system with two components: The Radiant bond from Honor and spren from Cultivation. Bondable spren can consist of Honor’s, Cultivation’s, and Odium’s Investiture. In a poor analogy, I think the Radiant bond is the Surgebinding gun and Stormlight (or Lifelight) is the gunpowder. The Radiantspren’s mix of Investiture forms the different bullets (the Focuses) that shape the magical effect.

How do spren accomplish this? If Honor’s magic users access Investiture through bonds, how do Cultivation’s magic users access her Investiture?

I believe Cultivation’s “primal force or...fundamental law” is Transformation, the ability to inter-convert Investiture, energy and matter. Transformation relates to the cosmere’s first law of thermodynamics. Brandon says Lift can convert “mass to Investiture directly,” specifically into Lifelight.

Khriss describes spren as “transformative cognitive entities.” Radiantspren transform Stormlight into their Radiant’s magical abilities. In exchange, spren manifest more fully in the Physical Realm. This exchange, this bond, allows the Radiant to direct the magical effect the spren Focuses.

To repeat, accessing Investiture through the Radiant bond and fueled by Stormlight (or Lifelight...or Voidlight?) is Honor’s magic. The Radiantspren’s mix of Honor’s, Cultivation’s, and (sometimes) Odium’s Investiture determines how it transforms Stormlight (or Lifelight) into a magical effect.

On 7/16/2024 at 6:27 AM, Speeding Steelrunner said:

For all Invested Arts, the way you access the Investiture is related to the Shard that it is connected to.

Thank you, Speeding Steelrunner! I completely agree! And thank you too, Dofurion, for also agreeing with this approach! In the beginning, I was a lone warrior against the sharp end of many pens. I much appreciate the company!

Edited July 19, 2024 by Confused

[clowncarcrash]

Huh, reading this made me have a consideration. I didn't really think Honor and Cultivation meshed well as compliments/opposites like Ruin and Preservation, but after reading this thread there's some complimentary/antagonistic stuff.

 

Like Cultivation I imagine is always changing, but I think of Honor as something you do to be rigid so you don't do something or you hold yourself up to a better ideal. There's that quote from I think Way of Kings I can't find right now, where I think Dalinar says having a code doesn't benefit you. It restricts you so you don't do awful things or become evil. So Cultivation your power grows but you have these thresholds you have to access stuff through your honor to your cause.

[+robardin he/him]

On 7/16/2024 at 9:27 AM, Speeding Steelrunner said:

It's possible that this is actually common knowledge, but I only just thought of it recently, so forgive me if I'm stating the obvious.

For all Invested Arts, the way you access the Investiture is related to the Shard that it is connected to. On Scadrial for example, the use of Allomancy preserves your own strength by giving you power directly from Preservation, and the mechanic of Snapping could be thought of as a form of self-preservation. We also have Hemalurgy where you are required to destroy another person in order to get power. On Nalthis, it all works on principles of giving, which matches the Intent of Endowment.

On Roshar, Surgebinding is connected to both Honor and Cultivation. The Oaths system is clearly related to Honor, but what about Cultivation? We see that the Oaths actually inspire character growth. In order to access more power, you have to improve and become better (with each stage marked by a new Oath, relating back to Honor.)

Just a little something I noticed. I thought it was neat how interconnected the two aspects of Surgebinding were. Sorry again if this has already been pointed out.

Yes, something about the Radiant orders does feel "of Cultivation", but it isn't Surgebinding so much as the nature of the Nahel bond. The progression of Ideals resulting in a Surgebinder's deeper and more powerful Nahel bond with a spren is not inherently about Rosharan "Surgebinding".

As we see, the Fused also have access to (mostly) the same Surges, but without such progression; more to the point, even the Surgebinding granted by the Honorblades to the Heralds do not have any progression of Ideals.

In fact, bonding and using an Honorblade, despite the name, doesn't require any kind of oath at all! It's why Syl called the Blade dropped by Szeth "dangerous", as it would make anybody a Windrunner, "without the checks that a spren bond requires". And of course, that's how Vyre is able to wield it in service to Odium.

Furthering the Cultivation angle, a sufficiently advanced Radiant is actually a BETTER Surgebinder than someone with an Honorblade would be. Not to mention the whole Fourth Ideal Plate business.

[QuantumAce]

On 7/22/2024 at 2:14 PM, robardin said:

Furthering the Cultivation angle, a sufficiently advanced Radiant is actually a BETTER Surgebinder than someone with an Honorblade would be. Not to mention the whole Fourth Ideal Plate business.

A sufficiently advanced Radiant may be better than a Stone Shaman, but I'm not sure we have seen an Honorblade wielded to its maximum potential. The Shin learned how to use the honorblades on their own, but its possible they missed some features. 

[alder24]

On 7/22/2024 at 9:14 PM, robardin said:

Furthering the Cultivation angle, a sufficiently advanced Radiant is actually a BETTER Surgebinder than someone with an Honorblade would be. Not to mention the whole Fourth Ideal Plate business.

28 minutes ago, QuantumAce said:

A sufficiently advanced Radiant may be better than a Stone Shaman, but I'm not sure we have seen an Honorblade wielded to its maximum potential. The Shin learned how to use the honorblades on their own, but its possible they missed some features. 

I wouldn't say better, but more efficient. Heralds would be still way above any 5th Ideal Radiant. I agree, we don't know what the full potential of Honorblades is, even the Stormfather said they would make you more than what a Radiant is. To add more, Heralds were feeding directly from Honor - the efficiency problem with Honorblade would not matter to them. OB ch 16:

Quote

What will you do with it? the Stormfather asked as Dalinar entered the empty corridors. It is a weapon beyond parallel. The gift of a god. With it, you would be a Windrunner unoathed. And more. More that men do not understand, and cannot. Like a Herald, nearly.

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

A full-blown Radiant can heal almost anything (cut from a Shardblade included) because of the way the magic works--their soul is literally bonded to Investiture, and it suffuses them in such a way that even the soul is very resilient to damage.

Honorblades are what you'd consider a "prototype" for what eventually happened with Shardblades. An Honorblade can be used by anyone, without need for oaths, which makes them very dangerous--but since the bond isn't as deep, they are far less efficient. They use more Stormlight, for example, and can't heal to the extent that a Radiant can.

So the difference is not in the device that did the damage, but in the method using to heal. Over the course of the first two book, the reader should be able to subtly pick out differences from what Szeth says is possible (in more than just healing) and what Kaladin experiences.

General Reddit 2017 (Sept. 8, 2017)

 

Spoiler

18th_Shard

Does a Herald using an Honorblade consume the same "dangerous" amounts of Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

Honorblades are less efficient; this doesn't change when a Herald uses them. (But they have other advantages.)

uchoo786

Are Honorblades closer in power to Nightblood than they are to Shardblades made from Spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Hard to say. They're all similar, but at the same time, very different. And in a way, Nightblood is what you might call a "Third Generation" blade.

uchoo786

Ah gotcha. And in this analogy, Honorblades would be 1st gen and Sprenblades would be 2nd gen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 4, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Steeldancer

The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence.

Steeldancer

Like Vin and Elend?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do.

Steeldancer

The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO

Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)

 

[Hatman he/him]

On 7/16/2024 at 11:19 AM, Argenti said:

The levels of Surgebinding, personal growth, all of this stuff is related to cultivation.

Somehow, I thought that most of that stuff was related to both Honor and Cultivation. Maybe my understanding of the concept of honor aligns more with the shard of Cultivation that the shard of Honor's concept of honor does. 

[PanLin they/he]

On 3/9/2026 at 2:34 AM, Hatman said:

Somehow, I thought that most of that stuff was related to both Honor and Cultivation. Maybe my understanding of the concept of honor aligns more with the shard of Cultivation that the shard of Honor's concept of honor does. 

The way I understand it is:

• Honor alone created the Heralds. One big static oath, everyone bound to it as a Cognitive Shadow powered directly by Honor (Honorblades are purely Honor's god metal)
• Honor and Cultivation then worked together to create the Radiants, based on the Heralds. A series of progressive oaths unique to each order that bind people while encouraging growth (Shardblades and Shardplate are made of both god metals)