immortality Immortality

[Guest Ψιτιsτηε Βεsτ]

The rules:

-You are in your prime. 
-You don’t age
-You can catch sickness, and you can be hurt, and die, but you cannot directly or indirectly cause it.

So this is a debate that I like to have with people. There are some great pros, but also some serious Cons, so I want to open up this to anyone.

Explain your answer:

 

[Edema Rue she/her]

No. Life is a beautiful thing, but some of the greatest beauty comes from the promise that it'll end. When you have a single scoop of ice cream, for example, you'll enjoy it, you'll lick the bowl clean, because it very obviously ends. If you're promised free ice cream, as much as you can eat, whenever you want, you'll never enjoy it as much. When something is limited, it becomes far more valuable, like a penny with a typo or a solar eclipse that happens once in your lifetime. You'll notice it more, enjoy it more, get more from it. Life cannot do what it does if it went forever; one incredible pro is the ability to finish projects that take lifetimes, but when you have eternity to do something the procrastination never ends and the quality goes down as you eventually experience all that you can.

There's also the issue of mental health. Not physical health, since it would never change, but our human minds are simply not strong enough to even comprehend eternity, much less live it. To exist forever, with no end in sight...it would break most all humans, I think. Maybe my answer would change if our minds were elevated to something that can see the bigger picture, to something that could remain focused when there's no real reason to and so many distractions, but I don't think so. All things must have an end, no matter how much it hurts, and to make something eternal would be the same as destroying it.

[Quantus he/him]

Yes, with those circumstances. 

This version of Immortality is mostly just More Time, without the dehumanizing pitfalls that are so often explored when you loose all potential Danger and all motivation along with it.  This is closer to what I call the Highlander mode of immortality, where Death is still relevant and literally hunting you, but rather than being powerless against Cancer, you can always either Train (with a sword) to Fight Death, or just Hide from it (on Holy Ground).  You really just dont die by Time or by Accident, just by a very specific contest you can prepare for and reasonably expect to defeat. Anything beyond that is just Time to Live more, See more, Do more, and Share more with the people of the world. 

I'd have a degree in every major branch of science, and finally learn all those languages and musical instruments I never make time for.  

[Frustration]

No, no no no no no no.

 

I get bored enough with life here as is, living for an eternity without any change to my mental or spiritual nature? No thank you.

 

And this isn't even true immortality, if you can still die, eventually you will, you just guarantee that death is going to be much more painful.

[Immortal Platypus]

I will not be around as people i love die. I would want to die with them, not outlive them. That hurts me just as much as it does them

[The Paradoxical Phenomenon he/him]

Yes.

Basically everything Quantus said. I think I could do some major good with all the extra time I’d have. Like Quantus said, I could become an expert in every branch of science. I could become an amazing doctor, saving lives.

I agree and sympathize with “I’d have to watch everyone I know and love grow old and die”. But think of all the others who I could be with along the way. I would be there for children, grandchildren, and even down the line as far as I could. I could, and this grosses me out every bit as it does you, continue marrying and having children.

I do have a question about the mechanics of this. @ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ, if I put myself in a dangerous situation, say, a plane that I rigged to explode, would I die? If not, what if it was someone else who I told to make the plane explode? Could I get someone to shoot me in the head? I would want to have a way out. Though… I could make millions in a talent show, by “killing” myself over and over, and not getting hurt… that kind of makes me sick to think about.

EDIT: also, the Second Coming should be along soon, according to what it sounds like the prophet is saying. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Labyrinth

[alder24]

No. Every person you know, everyone you love, all your friends, family members will age and die, and you will be there to witness the death of them all. That is terrible and depressing, and having immortality with loneliness and depression is the worst. 

But your version of immortality guarantees that you will eventually die of cancer, and that will be a long and troublesome death. So not only you will lose everyone you know, but also struggle with cancer time and time again until eventually you will die, after years of fighting with it. Or some random sickness or injury will finish you earlier. It's not as bad as traditional immortality, but still is bad.

[Immortal Platypus]

5 minutes ago, Labyrinth said:

EDIT: also, the Second Coming should be along soon, according to what it sounds like the prophet is saying. 

well, don't continue this because this is the wrong thread, but soon is a very relative term. They've been saying soon since pretty much the 1800s. But it is increasing now.

[Guest Ψιτιsτηε Βεsτ]

4 hours ago, Labyrinth said:

Yes.

I do have a question about the mechanics of this. @ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ, if I put myself in a dangerous situation, say, a plane that I rigged to explode, would I die? If not, what if it was someone else who I told to make the plane explode? Could I get someone to shoot me in the head? I would want to have a way out. Though… I could make millions in a talent show, by “killing” myself over and over, and not getting hurt… that kind of makes me sick to think about.

Ok so the thought is this:

Example 1): You get on a plane, there are bombs on the plane. You do not know. In mid air flight, they blow up. You die.

Example 2): You get on a plane. As you fly, the pilot goes unconscious and you crash. You die.

Example three): you get on a plane. You have put bombs on there but you don’t specifically intend to blow them up. Say you have a remote. You put it by someone who presses it unknowingly. You die.

Example 4): You get on a plane. You know there are bombs on the plane, but you don’t know that someone will blow them up. This is where it gets complicated. If you are confident that the bombs will not blow up, meaning you have, at least to yourself, udeyable proof, then you can board the plane. If you don’t, or if you believe thay will, you can’t. If you are trying to deactivate the bombs, and are confident that you could, even knowing that they will blow up, it fully depends on your confidence.

You cannot trick yourself, and it is like someone scam read your mind subconscious and conscious.

As for the second coming comment, cacophony is right this is not the place. I will pm you. That is where it gets even more interesting. If anyone wants to join the pm, they can comment.

[The Bookwyrm he/him]

47 minutes ago, ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ said:

As for the second coming comment, cacophony is right this is not the place. I will pm you. That is where it gets even more interesting. If anyone wants to join the pm, they can comment.

Me? Can I join?

I will say the answer to the poll question is ambiguous for me, simply because of the reason that I do believe in an eventual immortality because of my religion. (Which is the same one discussed above, of course.)

If it was immortality as outlined by the poll...I would probably decline. I think my life can still have meaning, and I can still do great things, given the time that I have. And the prospect of simply...existing, without any control over when it ends, sounds horrifying. If I eventually reached a point where growth was no longer possible, existence would essentially become a prison.

Now, if I had the ability to end my immortality whenever I wanted, then I might be more inclined to accept, because at that point I have a way out once I've done everything I want to. But I suppose it isn't that much of an immortality at that point...just an extended, ensured lifespan.

Edited September 6, 2023 by The Bookwyrm

[NameIess]

The brand of immortality described here actually wouldn't be an existential nightmare, considering that death by sickness is still a possibility, so I'd probably die before too long. Whether or not it would be good for me, I honestly can't say. However, if I was offered it, I think I'd take immortality whether or not it's actually a good idea.

1 hour ago, ΨιτιsτηεΒέsτ said:

As for the second coming comment, cacophony is right this is not the place. I will pm you. That is where it gets even more interesting. If anyone wants to join the pm, they can comment.

I'd like to join the pm as well please.

[Edema Rue she/her]

And me! 

[Through the Living Elan He/Him]

Me as well!

[The Isochronism he/him]

And meeeeee!

(It's not too late I hope...)

Edited September 18, 2023 by Bondsmith-Edgedancer

[Throw TheLiving Silverware he/him/il/lui]

Honestly, that's a hard no for me. My life would become a nightmare.

Having all the time I want to do anything would just lead me to not doing anything, since anyway I have eternity to do it. So why bother doing it now? You're clearly not in the mood to start learning Spanish today, so let's start that tomorrow. Or the day after. Or next week, or next year. What difference does it make in the end?

And in the same line of thought, why making new friends? Why getting to know people only for them to pass away sooner or later, while you stay there unchanged? Why inflict this on you? Better to stay by yourself, living in the same block for decades without being able to name anyone in the area.

All I can see in this universe is me at like 150+, just surviving in groundhog day mode, having not actually lived anything meaningful in over a century. Conscious of that state, hating everything about it, and yet still staying in it. Terrified by the fall in the stairs that would end my eternity prematurely, yet at the same time almost waiting for it.

What makes time meaningful is that it's limited. When you remove that, it loses any value.

At least, that's how I think it would go for myself. Feel free to disagree.

[The Sibling she/her]

I would do it. This isn't infinite life, this doesn't remove the stakes. It's just more time to accomplish whatever I wanted, more time to live life to the extreme, more time to re-read the cosmere for the hundredth time. When I'm done (centuries from now) I'll just start living more recklessly, checking dangerous and crazy things off my bucket list until I die. I don't think this removes the value from life, because life is still limited. There's just more of it. 

 

[Scars of Hathsin he/him]

I would have immortality, and although it would be terrible watching your friends family and descendants die, you could also involve yourself in affairs that most people don't have the scope to do, and you would be able to see the long term impact of things as well. You would also be able to see the progression of human civilisation, like moving to other planets, and eventually meeting others sentient species. 

[The Sibling she/her]

13 hours ago, Scars of Hathsin said:

You would also be able to see the progression of human civilisation, like moving to other planets, and eventually meeting others sentient species. 

Yesssss I want to meet aliens! Honestly this alone is reason enough for me.

[SmilingPanda19 Any!]

No. I don’t want to become immortal. I have many reasons.

A. I would have to outlive everyone I love. This would result in watching the people around me feel the sensation of living and aging and changing while I can’t. Living past people would be horrible, watching them live and die and attending countless weddings would make me feel more horrible than anything this limited life provides now.

B. My mental state would cripple over the course of hundreds of years. I know as a fact that it would only be a matter of time before I’d give into things. I’d give into getting addicted to things like dr~gs and alcohol, but as time would go on it would get far worse. Using my point A. I can also say that over time I would start to loose value in relationships, making me ruin relationships and break peoples hearts. Ultimately it would lead to insanity. I know that if I had to live for hundreds of maybe thousands of years I would go insane to point of committing crimes and to it all for crap and giggles. I’d loose a sense of self. At some point I’d go so insane I would beg and try so hard to just die. 
 

C. I would loose all sense of time. Everything would pass by in a blur. Just get up In the morning, work day in day out, do It all again. I’d loose track of time, stop remembering the date. Every persons face would blur in my memory. It would all just become one big useless blur. Sure I could do something good for humanity, like dedicating my life to cancer research or something, but if that’s not what I’m called to do I won’t be truly successful in it. 
D. My final point is my greatest. If I was immortal my actions would no longer have worth. Time is THE most valuable thing in this world. Your limited amount of time is what makes you do the things you do. You can’t push things off forever, you have to do something with your life while you can. With unlimited time I would no longer feel the deep need to satisfy that hope of doing something with my life and I would fall to pleasure ultimately. 

That is why I wouldn’t want to be immortal. As much as I hate change, I know who I am and I see who I would become. I would become everything I hate. I would much rather live a short life with meaning than a long meaningless life. We have limited time for a reason friends. We weren’t meant to be nothing, we were meant to do something for the Lord.

Edited October 13, 2023 by SmilingPanda19

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

Crap, accidentally pressed yes- I meant no.

[Keke They/he]

No. One thing that would hurt to think about being imortal is the fact that everyone you love and care about would also die. You would have to see the destruction of things you loved. Watch as the stuff you knew became different. 

[Ookla she/her]

Congratulations, this thread has officially prompted a story idea exploring this topic!

[Mattel]

My answer: absa-frigga-lutely NO. I read the whole Scythe series over the summer and it pretty much summed up my entire feelings on immortality. It sounds amazing, but I think is a curse. As people have said, you would slowly watch everyone around you die, but you wouldn't experience any of it. Life would become meaningless, because life is no longer something you must treasure and keep safe. Look at what happened to the storming Heralds! Yes, they were tortured and stuff, but immortality wrecked them. 

Ookla the Grilled Cheese summed it all up pretty well.