Long Game 96: KKC in the Modern Age

[Ashbringer he/him]

Szeth_Pancakes

Two votes per turn is going to take some getting used to... along with everything else.

[Sart he/him]

Oh no now I have to actually read rules.

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

Archer. Drake. Confirmed good = confirmed correct, so therefore probably good =probably right. Right? This is mostly just cause I need to vote and won't risk voting myself.

I am selling both of my votes at auction. In the future, this may decrease to only one vote, but for now, Let the Auction Begin!

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

3 hours ago, Archer said:

"Since apparently everyone knows I'm the expert on the subject, I can authoratively state that that's rich."

 

55 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

Confirmed good = confirmed correct, so therefore probably good =probably right. Right? This is mostly just cause I need to vote and won't risk voting myself.

Imma be real with y'all whatever it is that's being said here is going quite over my head

Imma just keep my votes where they are though

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

30 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

 

Imma be real with y'all whatever it is that's being said here is going quite over my head

Imma just keep my votes where they are though

The former is a joke about him being a noble, the latter is a joke about confirmed good not being confirmed right, and how I mildly trust him. There's really no connection. 

And don't forget, if you want me to vote somewhere else, just outbid everyone else.

[Mat he/him]

Mat

Dunno what you expected me to do tbh

Archer’s voting pattern this far is giving me village vibes for no specific reason. Would rather not (kill? expel? report him to the principal?) him early (again).

And yeah I have not read enough to be able to vote with any amount of confidence so that’s just not going to happen but hopefully this puts me above the PM line percentage cause apparently that’s a thing

Here’s a question for y’all: how do I get money (besides posting). I’m poor and don’t recall the ways of the university ;-;

[Archer he/him]

1 hour ago, The Known Novel said:

? This is mostly just cause I need to vote 

That's new for you, but I'm guessing it's one of those rules things I'm too book-adverse to have picked up on yet :P. 

1 minute ago, The Known Novel said:

 

And don't forget, if you want me to vote somewhere else, just outbid everyone else.

*laughs in wealthier than everyone else*

31 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

 

Imma be real with y'all whatever it is that's being said here is going quite over my head

Imma just keep my votes where they are though

It's a tough to read situation, but what have you done to change that? It's uncreative to vote leading wagons, and hedgy to split your votes. I've been waiting (/baiting) for a bad vote on me to come along, and yours looks like one. 

3 minutes ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Here’s a question for y’all: how do I get money (besides posting). I’m poor and don’t recall the ways of the university ;-;

we get money for posting? 

Last call for Actions Anonymous, it's an exciting opportunity to tell me what to do so I don't squander it all 

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

we get money for posting? 

You get half a talent for posting once, half a talent for each 200+ word roleplay, then 3/10s of a talent for both voting and PMing. There's other stuff, but I'm not too concerned with it.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

13 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

The former is a joke about him being a noble, the latter is a joke about confirmed good not being confirmed right, and how I mildly trust him. There's really no connection. 

And don't forget, if you want me to vote somewhere else, just outbid everyone else.

smhhhhhhhhhhh the wealthy asking for bribes from commoners

this is exactly why we need to build communism >:(

In any case, if I'm not missing anything profound then in that case I'm certainly keeping my votes parked

14 minutes ago, Archer said:

It's a tough to read situation, but what have you done to change that? It's uncreative to vote leading wagons, and hedgy to split your votes. I've been waiting (/baiting) for a bad vote on me to come along, and yours looks like one.

Tbh, I don't really see having votes that are creative as remotely a priority.

There is no inherent context-free value in voting the same or differently from other people. What matters most is the accuracy of your vote not its originality.

Barring that...

Sometimes there is value in diversifying the vote. If there is already a strong wagon solidifed and you want to play devil's advocate, or if you genuinely think the existing wagons are bad, or if you believe you've picked up on something others haven't.

Sometimes there is value in consolidating the vote. If the votes are scattered or coming in slowly and you want people to get serious, or if you want to apply pressure and see what follows from it, or if its the end of the cycle and your preferred vote isn't going much of anywhere.

Sometimes neither is really applicable, like at the very beginning of the cycle where the vote hasn't really taken shape yet.

It's contextual, don't you agree?

So... Which context do you think we're in right now? Can you explain to me why a diversified vote is a good idea right now?

Also, what exactly have you been doing to bait a bad vote?

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

11 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

smhhhhhhhhhhh the wealthy asking for bribes from commoners

this is exactly why we need to build communism >:(

That is communism. Practical communism at least. Wealthy dude says give me your stuff, then I'll give it back.

But who says I'm wealthy? Maybe I'm one of those nobles who's fallen on hard times. Maybe I'm like Sim, a paper duke to a tin king. Technically most theories say Kvothe himself is half-noble, so maybe I'm secretly an Edemah Ruh. 

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

7 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

That is communism. Practical communism at least. Wealthy dude says give me your stuff, then I'll give it back.

But who says I'm wealthy? Maybe I'm one of those nobles who's fallen on hard times. Maybe I'm like Sim, a paper duke to a tin king. Technically most theories say Kvothe himself is half-noble, so maybe I'm secretly an Edemah Ruh. 

if you are secretly Edema Ruh then perhaps you wouldn't mind helping out some of your kinspeople in a peculiarly pecuniary sense? :eyes:

[Kasimir he/him]

2 hours ago, Matrim's Dice said:

Here’s a question for y’all: how do I get money (besides posting). I’m poor and don’t recall the ways of the university ;-;

2 hours ago, Archer said:

we get money for posting? 

2 hours ago, The Known Novel said:

You get half a talent for posting once, half a talent for each 200+ word roleplay, then 3/10s of a talent for both voting and PMing. There's other stuff, but I'm not too concerned with it.

Y'all gonna make me break RP in sheer exkasperation this early aren't you >>

Your social class has an associated stipend. You get that amount of money every Turn. Otherwise, you can go to Imre and fulfill black market contracts for $$$. If you have a good musicality stat, especially @Matrim's Dice since you're Ruh so you get the +2 musicality bonus, it's probably worth hitting the Eolian in Imre and trying for your talent pipes. If you get your talent pipes (and they can't be stolen), you should be able to get a ten talent income every cycle. ( @little wilson / @Elbereth - every three Turns, correct?)

Besides that, you can probably consider going to the moneylenders in Imre, or I expect if you are an Artificer you can make a contract to sell an item you made, which should get you some cashflow.

You do not get half a talent for posting: that's tuition reduction. This means it's subtracted from your default ten talent tuition: in a way, you do get that money but you can't spend it, you never see it, and if you get more reductions than tuition, you won't earn $$$ from it. You just don't pay tuition. Keep in mind this matters because it won't pay your lodgings cost for you.

Bloody hell guys read the damn rules already >>

6 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

this observation is not mine it is courtesy of Kas tbh but Kas is basically the textbook definition of why there are tuition rules about heavy PM activity so there u go

smhhhhh as if u ain't

10 hours ago, Archer said:

Putting my second vote on Kas in defense of Steel 

Interesting. Why do you think Steel is worth defending?

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

this is exactly why we need to build communism >:(

Erhebt euch :eyes:

1 hour ago, DrakeMarshall said:

In any case, if I'm not missing anything profound then in that case I'm certainly keeping my votes parked

Ironic given what I've told you, but feel defense of Steel actually washes out to pretty Evil so...go ahead? >:P

Sigh. So much for my 'don't get involved nice chill RPful game' eh. My next post will go back to trying to break my personal goal of RPing a NaNoWriMo in this game so hopefully I'll get back there >>

Edited July 29, 2023 by Kasimir
bad word

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

33 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

Your social class has an associated stipend. You get that amount of money every Turn. Otherwise, you can go to Imre and fulfill black market contracts for $$$. If you have a good musicality stat, especially @Matrim's Dice since you're Ruh so you get the +2 musicality bonus, it's probably worth hitting the Eolian in Imre and trying for your talent pipes. If you get your talent pipes (and they can't be stolen), you should be able to get a ten talent income every cycle. ( @little wilson / @Elbereth - every three Turns, correct?)

Slight point of order: you get your stipend every cycle, not every turn.

34 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

smhhhhh as if u ain't

not to the same extent you are

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

Slight point of order: you get your stipend every cycle, not every turn.

RIP, misread. But yeah, lodgings should be every cycle too, no? At least I remember tuition is every cycle, but tbhhh just between us I lowkey want to break the M'Hael's tuition record in the same number of Turns  

4 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

not to the same extent you are

Sir if anyone uses Linguistic Analysis on u, I hope that this shows up very clearly as a damned lie >:(

x. music

A silence descended on the Eolian as the drummer finished playing. And then the applause.

Somehow, Kevan figured she’d probably win her pipes, with that voice. He chuckled quietly to himself. Of all the things to win talent pipes for, in the Eolian… He wondered if the owner of the Eolian knew. Perhaps he did; some musicians were well-travelled. Perhaps he didn’t. Too few knew Yllish these days, not even Yllish themselves.

He didn’t care much for it, after all.

"What was she singing?" Jarvik asked, leaning over, his voice hushed. As though to speak any louder was to disturb the impact the song had left on the room.

Kevan did his best to keep his expression straight. It wasn't something he was particularly good at, which was probably why Jarvik, Soren, and Owyn always cleaned him out when they played corners. These days, he played for low stakes and the fun of it. The problem wasn't losing money, the problem was that Owyn always insisted on playing for the most embarrassing stakes and there were only so many times you could take being made to go hang Jarvik’s socks from the highest point of the University.

“It’s a love song,” he said, carefully.

“A love song?” Soren asked. “It’s so cheerful!”

“Haven’t you heard cheerful love songs before?” Valerra raised an eyebrow. “The Rose of Reaping?  Red Is The Rose?”

“Well…” Soren huffed. “There’s Sir Savien—”

“Tehlu’s sake, Soren! That’s a tragedy! Of course it’s not cheerful! It’s not a love song!”

“Well, love is a tragedy!”

Jarvik sighed. “Well, what is the love song about?”

And there it went. There was no avoiding it, after all. Briefly, Kevan considered lying to Jarvik, but he wasn’t really in the mood to make up a whole song from cloth, especially if Jarvik took it in his head to keep humming it when they played corners.

“Seaweed.”

“Are you—” Jarvik used a word that would probably have made a sailor blush. “—kidding me, seaweed? That lovely love song is about seaweed?”

“What is it, praising the seaweed?” Soren asked, sarcastically, having apparently overheard. 

Kevan sighed. “It’s a—folk song.” Briefly, he thought about Eithne, about her one-Re’lar crusade to keep what was known about old Yll, about Yllish alive. “It’s about courting a girl with great seaweed.”

Jarvik choked. “Seaweed?” He asked again, as though the comment had broken his brain. “Seaweed?”

“You’ve done it now, Kevan,” Valerra said. “He won’t be good for anything for the next hour or so.”

“Seaweed?”

Edited July 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

51 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

RIP, misread. But yeah, lodgings should be every cycle too, no? At least I remember tuition is every cycle, but tbhhh just between us I lowkey want to break the M'Hael's tuition record in the same number of Turns

afaik it's all every cycle yea

all ordinary recurring income/expenses, that is to say, stipend, talent pipes, tuition, lodging

all of that's every cycle

edit: what is M'Hael's tuition record? :eyes:

Edited July 29, 2023 by DrakeMarshall

[The Unknown Medallion he/him]

2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

Your social class has an associated stipend. You get that amount of money every Turn. Otherwise, you can go to Imre and fulfill black market contracts for $$$. If you have a good musicality stat, especially @Matrim's Dice since you're Ruh so you get the +2 musicality bonus, it's probably worth hitting the Eolian in Imre and trying for your talent pipes. If you get your talent pipes (and they can't be stolen), you should be able to get a ten talent income every cycle. ( @little wilson / @Elbereth - every three Turns, correct?)

So here's my logic here. A lot of people don't understand this in real life even, but money saved is equal to money earned.

If I have a necessary bill of ten talents every months, and I reduce it to just 1.4 every month (which I will right around, a lot of the time even more), I have saved basically 8.6 talents, which is the same as just getting a bag of 8.6 talents out of thin air. That's more than what half the people get in a stipend I think, and for what, a few hundred words of roleplay, some PMing and filing EP. Tuition should only be difficult if you let it be.

[Kasimir he/him]

19 minutes ago, The Known Novel said:

So here's my logic here. A lot of people don't understand this in real life even, but money saved is equal to money earned.

I disagree with this logic because there's no liquidity - you can't spend the money anywhere else at all, it only goes towards your tuition. If you have an excess tuition decrement, you don't get more money. Regarding it purely as money earned means that you can't explain what happens when you have a 10.45 tuition reduction, yet don't gain .45 talents.

Edited to add: Minimally, I'd argue it's actively misleading: Mat is asking how to earn talents. By telling him how to reduce tuition, you're not helping him increase his liquid assets, so it's not addressing his concern as a Ruh student.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

btw, PSA!

please everyone get your EP orders in!

absolutely any field that suits your fancy they are all very good, they are all very useful in their way even if they may not seem like much (ily Arithmetics >:P), just file those EP somewhere it doesn't take very long!!

if I'm feeling charitable the elims are probably coordinating somewhat intelligently for their elevations, and while similar levels of coordination was never in the cards on the village side how about we actually play to our strength and throw our numbers around? to be clear, what that looks like is everyone filing their EP >:P regardless of what you even do with the abilities (which I repeat are all super useful), every villager filing EP is helping crowd out the elims from getting elevations, and that in of itself is important

it's especially important because there's a momentum aspect to it, compared to your average game it's not really something you can play catch up on if you've already sat on your hands for too long: if you've missed cycles 1-3 of submitting orders, you can't really make up for it by submitting a really clutch action on cycle 4, because if you've missed cycles 1-3 you won't have any good actions to use because you get those by filing ur dang EPs >:(

if I see the master spreadsheet after the game and i see u haven't been filing ur EP i will @ u in the aftermath and personally attack u over it see if I don't >:(

[Kasimir he/him]

22 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

if I see the master spreadsheet after the game and i see u haven't been filing ur EP i will @ u in the aftermath and personally attack u over it see if I don't >:(

[OOC: You ain't the boss of me! Just to spite u I should completely refuse to file EP tbhhhh >:) ]

2 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

edit: what is M'Hael's tuition record? :eyes:

[OOC: Across two Turns (but as you know, the three Turn set-up is new), he achieved a reduction of 10.45 talents, so theoretically he should have earned .45 extra but as you know, it don't work that way. As I'm trying to hit a NaNo record, I feel there's a decent chance I can probably equal his achievement through raw RP at this point, but we'll see.]

xi. bob's anatomy

The lecture hall seemed particularly crowded. But the mood was high: there was an air of anticipation, rather than anxiety, as though most of the students gathered were eager to take the fight to the skindancers, rather than nervously preparing for the worst.

What did you do, Kevan wondered, when you lived in such times as this? Part of him wanted that quiet life at the University, working on problems of reasoning, of knowledge, of what you could keep, and what you couldn’t. Such a change from Artificery.

But what did you do with words such as these:

“Two things fill the mind with ever-new and increasing wonder and awe, the more often and steadily I reflect upon them: the starry skies above me, and the moral law within me.”

How could you not wonder at a mind, at such a person, who could pen such words, who could imagine any words, any sort of imperatives at all, taking on the same force as laws of nature?

How did you experience the world, think of duty in such a way?

His train of thought drew to an abrupt halt as Master Bob (and there were too many jokes, really, cheap jokes once students learned about the plum bob and Master Bob’s name) cleared his throat.

“Welcome to the introductory module for medicine,” Master Bob said. Silence descended on the lecture hall: immediate and effective, as students hushed and quickly paid attention. They were going to need this, Kevan thought. Everyone knew that. “I hope all of you have acquired the anatomy text we’ll be using for the second half of this course. I know it’s unusual—typically, we’ll spend the entire term on the text and understanding the human anatomy, but in light of recent events, the first half of this module will teach you to diagnose injury and to immediately take action and treat casualties. In the second half of this module, we’ll focus on making sure you’ve internalised the basics of human anatomy. There will be labs involving working with our silent mentors: bodies donated for one reason or another to the Medica in order to train the next generation of students in technique and medical practice. I will not tolerate any disrespectful behaviour. Any student caught goofing around during labs will be immediately banned from my Medica.”

He looked around at them, and seemed to decide they’d internalised the warning enough.

“Well then. What is the first rule of rendering care to a patient?”

Kevan had done the readings, he was pretty sure he had done the readings, but at that moment, he wasn’t really sure. Looking around, he wondered if anyone else had figured that out.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

15 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: You ain't the boss of me! Just to spite u I should completely refuse to file EP tbhhhh >:) ]

i didn't say i was just that i would @ u in the aftermath thread if u do this >:P

only a coward would let that stop them from pursuing their dreams >:P

live ur best life i double dog dare u >:P

18 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

[OOC: Across two Turns (but as you know, the three Turn set-up is new), he achieved a reduction of 10.45 talents, so theoretically he should have earned .45 extra but as you know, it don't work that way. As I'm trying to hit a NaNo record, I feel there's a decent chance I can probably equal his achievement through raw RP at this point, but we'll see.]

what about cooked RP :eyes:

[Kasimir he/him]

23 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

i didn't say i was just that i would @ u in the aftermath thread if u do this >:P

[OOC: I am not afraid of ur @s!! I will do whatever the feck I want to! >:)

Including not filing EP if that makes me happy smhhhhh >:)

23 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

only a coward would let that stop them from pursuing their dreams >:P

Clearly I am no coward!! My Shard is Valor smhhhh!

23 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

live ur best life i double dog dare u >:P

who says i'm not i'm nearly at 10k words of RP already >:D

23 minutes ago, DrakeMarshall said:

what about cooked RP :eyes:

if this game lasts two months and i don't die until the end u can get cooked RP

but until then it's gonna be more raw than a gordon ramsey upbraiding & ur gonna take it >:( ]

xii. safety

One of the students raised a hand, and was called on by Master Bob. “E’lir Basil?”

“Above all, do no harm?” Basil ventured, his voice wavering with indecision, and perhaps some nerves at being put on the spot, even if he’d invited the gaze of the entire lecture hall.

Master Bob shook his head. “Incorrect. Indeed, the most well-known formulation of non-maleficence is the formulation E’lir Basil has just shared with us. As Arbasus writes in the Modegan Codices, “Above all, do no harm,” sometimes translated instead as, “First, do no harm.” The practitioner does take this to be a guiding foundation principle of the practice of medicine, but that’s theoretical. We’re talking about a practical situation here. Re’lar Eithne?”

Kevan hadn’t even noticed that Eithne had raised her hand.

“Prioritise the welfare of the patient?” she suggested.

Master Bob shook his head again. “Potentially a reformulation of Basil’s suggestion, but possibly dangerous, even.”

Kevan was frowning, and from a glance at the rest of the lecture hall, he could tell that the other students were just as puzzled. He laid his reed pen down on the groove of the pen rest and recapped the ink bottle. Master Bob had acknowledged that non-maleficence was significant to the physician, but had emphasised that they were looking to medical practice here. Yet, didn’t foundational principles guide practice? What did you get, that was supposed to be more important than the beating heart of medicine?

“Let me help you out here,” Master Bob said, not unkindly, as the silence stretched out in the lecture hall. “Suppose an earthquake has hit Imre.”

“It’s the wrong part of the Four Corners for earth tremors,” one of the students muttered, and then flushed when she realised her voice had carried.

“Suppose, then,” Master Bob countered, “That a rogue Namer has called the name of Earth, and buildings are being smashed to pieces like kindling.”

Laughter, like bubbles, filling the silence, ascending to the rafters.

“Someone brings you a patient, hurt by falling debris. What is the first thing you should do?”

“Make sure your surroundings are safe,” Kevan said.

“What was that, E’lir?”

He looked down at his notes.

“I know you said something, E’lir Kevan. What was it?”

“Make sure your surroundings are safe,” he said again, more loudly.

“Exactly,” Master Bob said, and stared severely around the lecture hall.

“Even in the Medica?” someone else asked, incredulously.

“Well,” Master Bob said. “Institutions like a clinic or the Medica are a luxury. Under most circumstances, you will not have to worry about your personal safety when attending to a patient. But suppose the patient has turned violent? Or suppose you are attending to a patient in an emergency situation? We can afford to speak of principles like non-maleficence because we often treat patients in environments that have been secured, that are clean, and that are under our control. And we forget that this is not always the case. The first rule of practical medicine does not involve the patient. It involves you. If you do not tend to your own safety first, you create an additional casualty.”

Kevan noticed the hesitation, before the Master added, “And in such a time as this… perhaps you should not be so quick to assume the Medica itself is safe, eh, E’lir Resan?”

A thought that felt like sacrilege, and almost terrifying, when the Master in charge of the Medica himself admitted it, before the entire lecture hall.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Kasimir

[Archer he/him]

5 hours ago, DrakeMarshall said:

smhhhhhhhhhhh the wealthy asking for bribes from commoners

this is exactly why we need to build communism >:(

In any case, if I'm not missing anything profound then in that case I'm certainly keeping my votes parked

Tbh, I don't really see having votes that are creative as remotely a priority.

There is no inherent context-free value in voting the same or differently from other people. What matters most is the accuracy of your vote not its originality.

Barring that...

Sometimes there is value in diversifying the vote. If there is already a strong wagon solidifed and you want to play devil's advocate, or if you genuinely think the existing wagons are bad, or if you believe you've picked up on something others haven't.

Sometimes there is value in consolidating the vote. If the votes are scattered or coming in slowly and you want people to get serious, or if you want to apply pressure and see what follows from it, or if its the end of the cycle and your preferred vote isn't going much of anywhere.

Sometimes neither is really applicable, like at the very beginning of the cycle where the vote hasn't really taken shape yet.

It's contextual, don't you agree?

So... Which context do you think we're in right now? Can you explain to me why a diversified vote is a good idea right now?

Also, what exactly have you been doing to bait a bad vote?

Kinda confused what you're claiming your motivations are here. And why you think just voting the top two wagons is especially accurate - unless you have two compelling cases for me and Mat, both of equal merit to warrant splitting your votes? It looks a lot like you didn't vote based on who they were but what position they were in. 

You have the votes to pull anyone else into a 2-2-2 tie with us, rather than solidify the existing options. If you had actual suspicions, I reckon you'd either double up on me, or double vote someone else. Instead you pull the I don't know anyone line which reads as you saying oh well, guess I'm stuck voting these two options because it's too late, when it's not completely too late, and if it was, that's on you for not bothering to develop suspicions and prod them before now. Arbitrary voting based on the VC hides your lack of villager legwork. 

My AA meetings look a lot like e!info phishing, so it can be used to justify a vote. It's enough putting myself out there to make people go hm anyway. If you don't really think through your suspicions, you might identify that as a potential wagon

Quote

Interesting. Why do you think Steel is worth defending? - Kas

Purely to rile you up :P. Your RP stream is fine, but I wanted to see how far you'd go to push that vote

Steel actually kinda fits my elim profile, which is mostly RP and staying out of sight. And maybe stalling initially while they strategize. Their opening Mat vote was very safe and justifiable, while helping get some votes down to add certainty. 

[Kasimir he/him]

4 minutes ago, Archer said:

My AA meetings look a lot like e!info phishing, so it can be used to justify a vote. It's enough putting myself out there to make people go hm anyway. If you don't really think through your suspicions, you might identify that as a potential wagon

[OOC: I'm leaning a bit Village on them (as indicated by the RP in which I voted Steel), but your knee-jerk Steel defense made me sort of lean Evil again as I kind of E!read Steel and dk how I feel in general about your play rn so it's a wash. Can't say I'd explain them if requested, but might if I'm in the mood. Depends on how hard I wanna go this game and right now the answer is "not very." I can say Drake solicited more thoughts from me about those in PM but in thread, it kind of ties in to my /shrug about how hard I wanna push/play this game right now.

I do have more thoughts on them but also don't feel it's constructive saying them in thread as if I'm correct about them, I'll probably mess with what you're trying to do if V, so I'm better off chilling.]

12 minutes ago, Archer said:

Purely to rile you up :P. Your RP stream is fine, but I wanted to see how far you'd go to push that vote

[OOC: Could just ask me, as I'm not really feeling the mood to do extreme shenanigans this game. As my RP said explicitly, not sure how far I'd go, and this is entirely pragmatic as I want to break the NaNo limit of 50k in RP before I die, and I kind of think I might have a better chance of doing so if I'm not up in the Elim's faces and annoying them and hardKasing this. At the same time, Steel looks pretty Evil* to me so wcyd. I'm currently on 8k+ words so at this point I think if I make it for five Turns, I should break the 50k barrier and can die peacefully.

*Qualified by the usual 'this is T1M1' stuff, but it boils down to a meta read: not sensing V!Steel's dgaf and I generally see more engagement off E!Steel. Not seeing V!Steel's typical tentativeness in engagement either, CBA to link but anyone who wants to cross-check can go look for the 'Steel is Village I'm not accepting anything else' post I made in LG94, or whichever number the Threnody LG was. There's probably a better comparator in the LG Fifth and I ran, but CBA to check as I'm here for my uni sim life - he did have some activity there and less dgaf and was Village so maybe that should be compared. LG86 I think. Agree this is early and could be a function of higher enthusiasm for KKC compared to another game, but that's where I feel like going rn so that's where I'm going.]

xii. symmetry

“Today,” said Master Anders, “We’re going to talk about symmetric and asymmetric relations.” He scribbled an ‘x’ on the board in chalk, and then a ‘y.’ Brushed the chalk dust absently off his fingers; a reflexive action, by this point, Kevan thought. He supposed it happened if you taught for long enough at the University. “Let’s test how much you’ve done the readings. Someone tell me what a symmetric relation is?”

The silence that descended upon the classroom was a silence of many parts: one for each student who had mysteriously developed a fascination with the floor, the ceiling, or the chalkboard, but not with Master Anders’s searching gaze.

“Just because you can’t see me doesn’t mean I can’t see you, you know,” Master Anders said. “Well then, E’lir Kevan. What’s a symmetric relation, according to MacBride?”

“A binary relation, R, is symmetric if and only if whenever y bears R to x, x bears R to y,” Kevan recited. He’d underlined the definitions the first thing when the group of them had quietly gone over the assigned readings before class. He liked the class, at least. It was the one place no one seemed remotely interested in the skindancer threat that had descended upon the University. It felt like a safe haven of sorts, almost.

“Good,” Master Anders said, and circled the ‘x’ and the ‘y’, and then drew one arrow connecting them. This he labelled ‘R.’ Then he drew the other arrow, back from ‘y’ to ‘x.’ This he labelled ‘R’ as well. “This is a symmetric relation. Someone else give me a simple example of a symmetric relation?”

“Siblings,” Owyn suggested. “If Alys is Bob’s sibling, then Bob is also Alys’s sibling. It’s symmetric.”

“Very good,” Master Anders said, and added that to the diagram on the chalkboard. “Symmetric relations, simply put, are reciprocal. That is, things like sibling relationships, or marriage. Someone explain to me why parenthood is not a candidate for a symmetric relationship?”

This one Kevan saw. “Because if Alys is Bob’s parent, then Bob is Alys’s child. The parental relation only goes one way by nature. It’s asymmetric. Probably like teaching,” he added.

“Correct, E’lir Kevan, though ideally, we hope that the teaching relation goes both ways. A good teacher learns from his student, just as the student learns from the teacher. We’ll come back to this later, as there’s an argument teaching isn’t really asymmetric. You’ve pre-empted the next question, which is: what is an asymmetric relation? So I’ll quickly run us through this. An asymmetric relation, according to the assigned MacBride reading, is when x bears R to y, but y does not bear R to x. Can someone give me an example of an asymmetric relation?”

“Love, sir,” said Owyn, and the classroom laughed. “What, I mean, think about it. We literally have a cottage industry of ballads about unrequited love. Being in love with someone doesn’t mean they’re in love with you.”

“But they could be,” said Jahan. “Otherwise, how do you explain your parents?”

“How do you explain yours?” Owyn countered.

Kevan hid his amusement.

“E’lir,” Master Anders said severely, stepping in before this could become anything more than a small spot of conflict. “Here’s the question, then. Are there any other kinds of relations besides ones that are symmetric and ones that are asymmetric?”

Kevan frowned, staring at the second diagram that Master Anders had chalked on the board. Symmetric relations were by definition reciprocated. Asymmetric relations were, by definition, one-way. That seemed to suggest… “Uh…what about relations that are sometimes reciprocal and sometimes not?”

An odd thought, that. In Yllish, ownership was always reciprocal: most relations were. You could not love, without that love being in some way reflected. Everything was grammatically connected. Eithne thought it was insightful; Kevan thought it was plain stupid.

“Good, E’lir Kevan. We refer to these ‘it depends’ cases as ‘non-symmetric’ relations. That is: by definition, there is no world in which a sibling relation isn’t symmetric. That’s why it is an instance of a symmetric relation. While love is a very clear-cut instance of a relation that can fail to be symmetric, sometimes, it really just is symmetric. So we call it a ‘non-symmetric’ relation. Asymmetric relations, such as parenthood, are a one-way street: barring legal fictions such as adoption and time travel novels, if x is y’s parent, then there is no world in which y also bears the parental relation to x. It is definitionally asymmetric.”

Dutifully, Kevan copied the scrawlings on the board and the ensuing discussion.

“Of course,” said Master Anders, “So far we’ve discussed binary relations because they are a simple case, and this is a beginner level class. We’ll talk about n-ary relations in higher level modules…”

[Elbereth she/her]

---

Jenali (JNV) went insane!

Mat, Steel, Archer, and Drake were brought On the Horns! All had charges dropped. Note: as implied in the rules, a smaller player count means that the number of DP each master distributes has been brought down from 5 to 3 DP per master.

Archer (2): Araris Valerian, Drake
Matrim's Dice (2): Steeldancer, Drake
Steeldancer (1): Kasimir
Drake (3): Archer, Archer, TKN
Szeth_Pancakes (2): JNV, Ash

Kas, Steel, JNV, Ash, TJ, Szeth, Stink, and Sart were elevated!

 

Everyone should have received a PM by now. Month 2 has begun and will end in 36 hours, at 7AM Mountain Time. Good luck!

[Mat he/him]

That was like not cool you guys smh smh I’m poor as it is I don’t need this

Also guess who got the rollover time wrong and didn’t submit any actions in time! :D. :D. :D.

Was a really good start for me I know but at least I’m home now >> RP will be later tonight.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Matrim's Dice