Aleksiel Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 Because if Dalinar takes his shards away, he is not a shardbearer anymore. Therefore, he can be trial like a normal men. Sharbearers are not trialed nor put into prison: they are executed. By removing them, Dalinar protects Adolin. Now that's just nasty. Besides, Adolin will remain in prison should Dalinar command it. Adolin giving his Shards before the trial is like him agreeing to death sentence, I don't see it happening.
Guest Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 Now that's just nasty. Besides, Adolin will remain in prison should Dalinar command it. Adolin giving his Shards before the trial is like him agreeing to death sentence, I don't see it happening. Yeah but the law says otherwise which is why I think it may happen... He is not given them willingly, he is obeying a difficult order. I could even see Adolin give them out on his own just because he feels he has to. Or maybe if Dalinar gets really angry, Adolin will react harshly by giving out his shards and putting his own self into banishment
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 Shardbearers are tried, they just aren't imprisoned.
Guest Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 Shardbearers are tried, they just aren't imprisoned. I understood they are just executed, no process, no nothing
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 "Let him go son," Dalinar said, sighing. "His reputation is broken." "He is still a murderer." "And we will try him fairly," Dalinar said, "once I return. I can't imprison him-Shardbearers are above that, and he'd cut his way out anyways. Either you execute a Shardbearer or you leave him free." WoR 76 The Hidden Blade
Guest Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 "Let him go son," Dalinar said, sighing. "His reputation is broken." "He is still a murderer." "And we will try him fairly," Dalinar said, "once I return. I can't imprison him-Shardbearers are above that, and he'd cut his way out anyways. Either you execute a Shardbearer or you leave him free." WoR 76 The Hidden Blade I guess it means Adolin can get a trial even if he remains a shardbearer.
Pathfinder Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 I guess it means Adolin can get a trial even if he remains a shardbearer. I wonder if the fact that a knife was used instead of a shardblade would affect the ruling of the trial or severity of the punishment. For instance sometimes penalties for murder are more severe if a firearm was involved vs not.
Guest Posted July 4, 2014 Posted July 4, 2014 I wonder if the fact that a knife was used instead of a shardblade would affect the ruling of the trial or severity of the punishment. For instance sometimes penalties for murder are more severe if a firearm was involved vs not. Good one. Considering how the murder was performed, the Kohlins could plead it was a fight and Sadeas was killed as a result. Adolin could even pretend Sadeas jump on him and he had to defend himself... People would believe him. Sadeas has been seen taunting Adolin on every occasion he got. Adolin usually tried to stay away from the old weasel, but Sadeas always seemed to seek him out just to goat him. Sadeas already has a bad track record when it comes to the Kohlins: he abandoned them afterall. Yeah, I think Adolin could make it past as an accident or legitimate defense if he is smart about it, but I doubt he will be. He is too straight-forward and honest for that. He won't be able to lie about it, not to Dalinar at least. Brandon pointed out in one of his WoB that some characters will think what Adolin did is horribly wrong with a capital H. I have been since theorizing Dalinar would be such a person. I wonder if I am wrong or if there would be others.
Shaggai Posted July 5, 2014 Posted July 5, 2014 Good one. Considering how the murder was performed, the Kohlins could plead it was a fight and Sadeas was killed as a result. Adolin could even pretend Sadeas jump on him and he had to defend himself... People would believe him. Sadeas has been seen taunting Adolin on every occasion he got. Adolin usually tried to stay away from the old weasel, but Sadeas always seemed to seek him out just to goat him. Sadeas already has a bad track record when it comes to the Kohlins: he abandoned them afterall. Yeah, I think Adolin could make it past as an accident or legitimate defense if he is smart about it, but I doubt he will be. He is too straight-forward and honest for that. He won't be able to lie about it, not to Dalinar at least. Brandon pointed out in one of his WoB that some characters will think what Adolin did is horribly wrong with a capital H. I have been since theorizing Dalinar would be such a person. I wonder if I am wrong or if there would be others. I'm pretty sure Kaladin would.
kari-no-sugata Posted July 6, 2014 Author Posted July 6, 2014 Hmm, I haven't thought about it that way. Adolin could play the Balat/Lin card, but he'd have to very careful of his wording. He doesn't know enough about Shallan and might miss the opportunity. However, I wonder if he and Balat would get along, that could soften Shallan's reaction. So long as Balat doesn't burn any of Adolin's clothes, otherwise Adolin will kill him too, and that'll be how his relationship with Shallan ends and he gets exiled. It probably doesn't help when I briefly reply to posts that are a few days old but I've been rather busy lately. I'll try again since that's not really what I intended with my previous post Aleksiel, I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth but from what I've seen, your main expectation for Shallan's reaction to finding out Adolin killed Sedeas is something like "That's just the sort of nasty thing my father would do! DO NOT WANT!" Now, we certainly don't know how Shallan will find out about Adolin's involvement and her reaction could change a lot depending on circumstances. However, if she was to have a strong negative reaction and also be reminded of someone else, I would expect her to be reminded of Kabsal and not her father - ie the guy who was nice to her but turned out to be a nasty killer. (side note: assuming they make it there at all, I'm not expecting Shallan's brothers to turn up any time soon. The journey from the Davar estates to the Shattered Plains looks like it'd take about 2 in-world months under normal circumstances.) What I was saying in my previous post was that I am expecting Shallan to compare Adolin's situation with Sadeas to Nan Balat facing their father down on her own - not because Adolin knows about Nan Balat (Shallan doesn't seem to have talked about her family much at all with Adolin) but because there are obvious similarities that she could see: Sadeas is the nasty evil older guy and Adolin is the younger guy who's been agitating to do something for ages when nobody else was... and finally does (which is roughly what happens in the last flashback chapter). The personalities involved and the end result are different for sure but it's the setup for the fateful confrontation that's similar. For her to react this way this would require Shallan to already view Sadeas in a negative light. They've never actually met but I think this is very likely: on Shallan and Adolin's first proper date, Adolin describes what happens at the tower in tWoK - that directly leads to Shallan coming up with the plan for Adolin to get a duel with Sadeas. Consider that Shallan expects/hopes to marry Adolin so threats to him and his family would be something she'd take seriously. It's pretty obvious that Sadeas and the Kholins are enemies so Shallan would probably be relieved to find out that Sadeas is dead. Also, when she was scouting Amaram's place Shallan did not like Sadeas's war camp, finding it obviously worse than the others. And finally, Shallan was very nearly "collateral damage" in the attempted assassination on Dalinar - it's only her Radiant powers that stopped her from being a mangled corpse down in the chasms. In short, I think it would be quite reasonable for Shallan to conclude that Sadeas is someone worse than her father. Incidentally, this is how she sees Sadeas the first time (chapter 38, the silent storm): She counted the highprinces off in her head. Sadeas was easy to pick out, red-faced from visible veins under the skin, like her father had displayed after drinking. Shallan definitely sees Adolin in a positive light. Overall, he's much better than she had expected - which is why she describes him as a "wonderful surprise". Of course, that by itself could lead to extreme disappointment if he does something she finds unforgivable. Here's a thought: within the story, it's quite possible that Shallan will meet Adolin before she finds out Sadeas is dead - they probably meet quite often. I don't want to argue about probabilities just that it's possible so that we can theorise about it. Now, say that Adolin is cold and distant with Shallan and they go separate ways quickly then later on when Shallan finds out about Sadeas's death and Adolin is implicated then she would remember that meeting and likely be very troubled - and that would be a likely scenario in which she compares Adolin with Kabsal. That's one possibility. However, I think it's more likely that Adolin would be obviously troubled and unable to mask it and Shallan will not let it slide and eventually Adolin breaks down and confesses what happened (with just the two of them in the room). I would expect Shallan to be sympathetic and protective of Adolin in such a situation.
Guest Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Now, we certainly don't know how Shallan will find out about Adolin's involvement and her reaction could change a lot depending on circumstances. However, if she was to have a strong negative reaction and also be reminded of someone else, I would expect her to be reminded of Kabsal and not her father - ie the guy who was nice to her but turned out to be a nasty killer. I do not see the parallel with Kasbal as obvious as others seem to think. Kasbal was a nice guy how try to get close to her so he could assassinate Jasnah. He was willing to sacrifice Shallan as collateral damage. Adolin would NEVER endanger Shallan in any ways nor is he using her to gain any advantage. In fact, it is quite to opposite. Sadeas has no ties whatsoever to Shallan. She is not a pawn and she is clearly not involved in this situation. How could she even associate Adolin to Kasbal? They have remotely nothing in common and their deed, apart from behind murder (or attempt murder) spread from two different situations. Adolin just has nothing in common with Kasbal so I really fail to see how Shallan could think them the same. What I was saying in my previous post was that I am expecting Shallan to compare Adolin's situation with Sadeas to Nan Balat facing their father down on her own - not because Adolin knows about Nan Balat (Shallan doesn't seem to have talked about her family much at all with Adolin) but because there are obvious similarities that she could see: Sadeas is the nasty evil older guy and Adolin is the younger guy who's been agitating to do something for ages when nobody else was... and finally does (which is roughly what happens in the last flashback chapter). The personalities involved and the end result are different for sure but it's the setup for the fateful confrontation that's similar. For her to react this way this would require Shallan to already view Sadeas in a negative light. They've never actually met but I think this is very likely: on Shallan and Adolin's first proper date, Adolin describes what happens at the tower in tWoK - that directly leads to Shallan coming up with the plan for Adolin to get a duel with Sadeas. Consider that Shallan expects/hopes to marry Adolin so threats to him and his family would be something she'd take seriously. It's pretty obvious that Sadeas and the Kholins are enemies so Shallan would probably be relieved to find out that Sadeas is dead. Also, when she was scouting Amaram's place Shallan did not like Sadeas's war camp, finding it obviously worse than the others. And finally, Shallan was very nearly "collateral damage" in the attempted assassination on Dalinar - it's only her Radiant powers that stopped her from being a mangled corpse down in the chasms. In short, I think it would be quite reasonable for Shallan to conclude that Sadeas is someone worse than her father. I do not think Shallan's first impulse would be to associate the Adolin/Sadeas relationship to the Balat/Lin one. Whereas I agree they do have some similarities, they are quite different. Balat was fighting for his freedom and his life. Adolin was fighting to protect his father, yes, but he also got over-ruled by his own anger. It may scare Shallan and it is true she may wonder who truly hides behind Adolin's handsome smile. However, Adolin has proven to be a rather straight-forward, honest and mentally direct person. I am pretty Shallan reads him as an open book already, so I doubt she will be think him to be a ruthless killer. She also knows about the Sadeas incident as, as you pointed out, Adolin short of spilled his guts on their first date. Shallan was able to read Adolin's pain and anger as he told his tale. She saw how it troubled him and how he ached to do something about it. Being the master of lies, I would think Shallan should manage to tell when someone is sincere. Shallan definitely sees Adolin in a positive light. Overall, he's much better than she had expected - which is why she describes him as a "wonderful surprise". Of course, that by itself could lead to extreme disappointment if he does something she finds unforgivable. Here's a thought: within the story, it's quite possible that Shallan will meet Adolin before she finds out Sadeas is dead - they probably meet quite often. I don't want to argue about probabilities just that it's possible so that we can theorise about it. Now, say that Adolin is cold and distant with Shallan and they go separate ways quickly then later on when Shallan finds out about Sadeas's death and Adolin is implicated then she would remember that meeting and likely be very troubled - and that would be a likely scenario in which she compares Adolin with Kabsal. That's one possibility. However, I think it's more likely that Adolin would be obviously troubled and unable to mask it and Shallan will not let it slide and eventually Adolin breaks down and confesses what happened (with just the two of them in the room). I would expect Shallan to be sympathetic and protective of Adolin in such a situation. I agree the circumstances into which Shallan comes into the knowledge will shape her reaction. If she does meet with Adolin before the deed is discovered, she will more likely meet troubled, overstressed and shaken Adolin than the cold and distant one (which we have never met). We must not forget that every single time he is being described in the book is to say how similar he is to Dalinar in that matter, how he does not hide his true feelings, how he is not hypocrite, so I would think that after murdering a highprince his main reaction would be one of total horror and panic. I think it is even probable Adolin may lash out and break out with Shallan thinking he is not good enough for her. He was already heading down this line of thought before his encounter with Sadeas, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to assume after killing someone he would definitely think he is not husband material for one of the Radiant. I don't know how Shallan would react if faced against this situation early in book three. I doubt kisses would be enough to make it right this time. I agree however that once she finds out, she may become very protective of Adolin, siding with him no-matter what. It would be nice if they didn't break up ultimately as everyone has been foreshadowing.
Aleksiel Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 ..... Here's a thought: within the story, it's quite possible that Shallan will meet Adolin before she finds out Sadeas is dead - they probably meet quite often. I don't want to argue about probabilities just that it's possible so that we can theorise about it. Now, say that Adolin is cold and distant with Shallan and they go separate ways quickly then later on when Shallan finds out about Sadeas's death and Adolin is implicated then she would remember that meeting and likely be very troubled - and that would be a likely scenario in which she compares Adolin with Kabsal. That's one possibility. However, I think it's more likely that Adolin would be obviously troubled and unable to mask it and Shallan will not let it slide and eventually Adolin breaks down and confesses what happened (with just the two of them in the room). I would expect Shallan to be sympathetic and protective of Adolin in such a situation. That's really sweet, but I don't think it will happen. Brandon said there will be many ramifications for Adolin and certain characters will react very bad when they learn what he did. Adolin pretty much cares only about Dalinar, Renarin, Shallan, Navani, may be Kaladin since they started a bromance in WoK and I'm not sure about Elhokar, but all other characters are more or less irrelevant. Out of these characters the only ones I think might react poorly are Elhokar, Dalinar and Shallan. Probably all of them, since there will be many ramifications for Adolin. Thus, I've set my mind on 'why Shallan will react bad' and I found enough reasons. Even if she associates Adolin with Kabsal instead of her father, that still will mean she's grow colder. That's if their relationship doesn't begin to crumble before her learning Adolin murdered Sadeas and in this case she'll just let the relationship fall apart. Just think about these 'many ramifications'. What coudl they possibly be? Negative public reaction? Well, it's not like Adolin was everyone's favorite lighteyes anyway (he was completely friendless in WoR), so I don't think he'd care that much and his own men wil probably cheer what he did, so who cares about the rest Dalinar being angry and disappointed? Certainly. But whatever punishment Dalinar chooses for Adolin, it still is only one ramification. Elhokar getting angry? Well, who knows, he's so mood he might very well order his cousin's execution or reward Adolin, I totally don't get this guy. Shallan being disappointed with Adolin and their relationship crumbling? Why not, only Dalinar getting angry doesn't seem enough to fitwhat Brandon said. Renarin? No way, I don't see this happening. Navani? I suspect if the political climate was different, she'd order Sadeas assassination against Dalinar's wishes, so I'd say no. She's too fond of her nephew, hates Sadeas and doesn't care about appearance and public opinion.
Guest Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Just think about these 'many ramifications'. What coudl they possibly be? 1) Negative public reaction? Well, it's not like Adolin was everyone's favorite lighteyes anyway (he was completely friendless in WoR), so I don't think he'd care that much and his own men wil probably cheer what he did, so who cares about the rest 2) Dalinar being angry and disappointed? Certainly. But whatever punishment Dalinar chooses for Adolin, it still is only one ramification. 3) Elhokar getting angry? Well, who knows, he's so mood he might very well order his cousin's execution or reward Adolin, I totally don't get this guy. 4) Shallan being disappointed with Adolin and their relationship crumbling? Why not, only Dalinar getting angry doesn't seem enough to fitwhat Brandon said. 5) Renarin? No way, I don't see this happening. 6) Navani? I suspect if the political climate was different, she'd order Sadeas assassination against Dalinar's wishes, so I'd say no. She's too fond of her nephew, hates Sadeas and doesn't care about appearance and public opinion. 1) Adolin does care. His so-called friend teamed up to get him beaten to death in an unfair duel simply because he was better then they. I doubt the issue is settled. Adolin is a very social person who likes to go out and be at events. How will he react if everyone suddenly turn not only cold toward him, but outward mean? They were already trying to undermine him, but it was subtle, almost gentle. Now they are pissed and they finally got something against him. It may get nasty. 2) Dalinar accounts for more than one ramification. First, Dalinar is the most significant person in Adolin's life, apart from perhaps Renarin. Adolin values Dalinar's opinion above anyone else. He knows how well his father thinks of him and he knows he has deceived him. That alone will be hard to bear, but if Dalinar gets mad and outright put more oil on the fire, it may cause a rift. Adolin will already feel left out for not being a Radiant, so if Dalinar goes ballistic on him and punishes him, well you've got more than one ramification. You have: lost of beloved father's trusts, lost of status within household, deep feeling of being left out and/or even replaced, ultimately lost of family as everything crumbles around. Albeit, Dalinar is one huge ramification. 3) LOL. I don't get him either. Will he cheer or will he be angry? We know he is conscious of his public image. Most of his decision making is triggered by it. Therefore, it is safe to assume he will react negatively, but to the point to order his cousin's death? I didn't get any sign of long lost love between the cousins, but Elhokar did seem to respect Adolin and he was the first to be impressed (and praised) by his growing talent at dueling. However, he was willing to let him die in WoR in the unfair duel as it would look bad to step-in and end it. So far, he's a wildcard. I can't predict him either. 4) Shallan could go both ways. I agree with your assessment but I also agree with Kari. I tend to want to see Shallan get on Adolin's side and I think it is a strong possibility, but it may also go the other way. 5) I don't know... Don't be so sure... Renarin is weird and he has gone completely wacko at the end of WoR. He shut himself from his own brother and he now spends more time with bridge 4 than him. Now he is a Radiant, he finally has a chance to move out of Adolin's shadow. I do foresee a fallout between these two, but ultimately, Renarin should ranged himself behind his brother before things go too far. However, he could be one of the ramification as his reaction is not entirely predictable. 6) Agree. I just cannot see Navani not taking Adolin's side. She is fond of him and she will most likely want to protect at all cost. She does not care about the protocol either.
Aleksiel Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 (edited) 1) Adolin does care. His so-called friend teamed up to get him beaten to death in an unfair duel simply because he was better then they. I doubt the issue is settled. Adolin is a very social person who likes to go out and be at events. How will he react if everyone suddenly turn not only cold toward him, but outward mean? They were already trying to undermine him, but it was subtle, almost gentle. Now they are pissed and they finally got something against him. It may get nasty. He could barely stand his so-called friends and realized Dalinar was right that the other lighteyes were acting like spoiled brats. Would you care what a spoiled brat says to you? I think not. Let's not forget some of his so-called friends already tried to kill him and threatened his little brother. They should be grateful Adolin isn't Arya. 2) Dalinar accounts for more than one ramification. First, Dalinar is the most significant person in Adolin's life, apart from perhaps Renarin. Adolin values Dalinar's opinion above anyone else. He knows how well his father thinks of him and he knows he has deceived him. That alone will be hard to bear, but if Dalinar gets mad and outright put more oil on the fire, it may cause a rift. Adolin will already feel left out for not being a Radiant, so if Dalinar goes ballistic on him and punishes him, well you've got more than one ramification. You have: lost of beloved father's trusts, lost of status within household, deep feeling of being left out and/or even replaced, ultimately lost of family as everything crumbles around. Albeit, Dalinar is one huge ramification. Navani will soften his original reaction, I'm sure of it. I'm glad we agree she'll be on Adolin's side. Dalinar will certainly be disappointed, but that won't mean he loves Adolin any less, so wouldn't do anything to harm Adolin like exiling him or stripping him of rank and title, at least I do not see it as the likeliest outcome. 5) I don't know... Don't be so sure... Renarin is weird and he has gone completely wacko at the end of WoR. He shut himself from his own brother and he now spends more time with bridge 4 than him. Now he is a Radiant, he finally has a chance to move out of Adolin's shadow. I do foresee a fallout between these two, but ultimately, Renarin should ranged himself behind his brother before things go too far. However, he could be one of the ramification as his reaction is not entirely predictable. Renarin's behavior that some people regard as weird is due to autism and has noting to do with how strongly and deeply he loves Adolin. He looks up to Adolin, doesn't envy him, Ren would die for his brother and has proved he isn't afraid to put himself in danger to protect his family. He wasn't himself in some episodes in WoR because of the screams of the bonded Blade, but that's behind him. I suspect Adolin and Ren might grow apart a bit in the next book but definitely not Ren standing against his brother. Adolin might shut himself trying to hide what happened, Ren might think it's because Adolin's upset Ren didn't confide in him or something, so overall some miscommunication, but nothing an open conversation can't fix. I don't know if you have a sibling. That's a person one loves beyond reason and it'd take much more to disturb such a bond. I can see a parent being too strict and chose to punish instead of understand, but your sibling is the one person is the whole world that gets you without judging you, the one who's supposed to always be by your side even when they don't agree with you. Ren and Adolin's bond is much more stronger that Adolin's crime. Edited July 7, 2014 by Aleksiel
Guest Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 He could barely stand his so-called friends and realized Dalinar was right that the other lighteyes were acting like spoiled brats. Would you care what a spoiled brat says to you? I think not. Let's not forget some of his so-called friends already tried to kill him and threatened his little brother. They should be grateful Adolin isn't Arya. You care when they team up on you, when they try to antagonize you and when they try to kill you. Jakamav was his best friend before the betrayal. He asked him during the fight why he agreed to take part into this and never got any answer. I doubt the issue is over. They are bond to meet up again and then what? Could Adolin be disturbed enough by the events to lose it again? To get into a brawl with them? A fist fight? Not killing again, but just lose it some more? What about the other lighteyes... They already hate him, certainly they want to get back at him, him the annoying one who just wouldn't lose. They could team up again. I can definitely see some ramification material here. Navani will soften his original reaction, I'm sure of it. I'm glad we agree she'll be on Adolin's side. Dalinar will certainly be disappointed, but that won't mean he loves Adolin any less, so wouldn't do anything to harm Adolin like exiling him or stripping him of rank and title, at least I do not see it as the likeliest outcome. I am sure she will, but the damage will be done. Dalinar still loves Adolin, but he may need help to remember it once he finds out Alright, I am starting to think you may be right that Dalinar won't go to such extremes, but I do see him being quite vocal about it and say quite some nasty things, which may antagonized Adolin even more. He'll certainly lose trust in his son, he'll backtrack from trying to put him in command so often and he'll probably put him on heavy watch. He may grow cold, distant which would pretty much be the equivalent of exile for Adolin, an exile within his own family. Renarin's behavior that some people regard as weird is due to autism and has noting to do with how strongly and deeply he loves Adolin. He looks up to Adolin, doesn't envy him, Ren would die for his brother and has proved he isn't afraid to put himself in danger to protect his family. He wasn't himself in some episodes in WoR because of the screams of the bonded Blade, but that's behind him. I suspect Adolin and Ren might grow apart a bit in the next book but definitely not Ren standing against his brother. Adolin might shut himself trying to hide what happened, Ren might think it's because Adolin's upset Ren didn't confide in him or something, so overall some miscommunication, but nothing an open conversation can't fix. I don't know if you have a sibling. That's a person one loves beyond reason and it'd take much more to disturb such a bond. I can see a parent being too strict and chose to punish instead of understand, but your sibling is the one person is the whole world that gets you without judging you, the one who's supposed to always be by your side even when they don't agree with you. Ren and Adolin's bond is much more stronger that Adolin's crime. I was not talking about his autism, but more of his new tendency to isolate himself from his brother. He loves him, but he didn't go to him when he needed help. He shut him out. That will hurt. I think Adolin will shut himself out. He already started before killing Sadeas, you know, the wandering alone thing? He'll may also think his brother did not confide in him because he now is a lowly human whereas Ren now is a Radiant... And Ren... Ren will simply think Adolin judges his new controversial power of seeing the future. He'll think Adolin disapproves and he may even think his brother has gone jealous: for once Renarin has something Adolin does not and he is acting crap because of it. Bottom line, I do see some struggle between them, but nothing permanent. However, I do think conflict with Renarin, even if it spreads from miscommunication, may be the drop that pushes Adolin over the edge. He lost control once, he was disturbed by recent events and Sadeas's taunting was enough to unhinged him. How will he react if he feels his whole family just turned on him? Already, they are Radiants. He is not. They are great, amazing and magnificients. He is a murderer. His father and hero is madly mad at him and won't stop yelling how disappointed he is. And now his brother shuts him down? His brother takes part into this? The one person who, as you say, is supposed to always be on his side? It may very well be the last drop even it is spread from a fictional conflict. I do have a sibling, but honestly my relationship with her is a bad, bad, bad example. It was horrible from the beginning for a thousand of reasons, but I get your point.
kari-no-sugata Posted July 7, 2014 Author Posted July 7, 2014 Damnation you guys are prolific! Hmm, I could do another post trying to clarify some things but I think that's getting boring. So instead, I'll just talk about some things I'd like to see (or not like to see), not in general but more relating to the murder and secondary effects. It may sound perverse or creepy but I like the idea that Adolin showing a darker side allows Shallan to see him more as a real person and she starts to open up to Adolin about some of the dark things she's done. I suspect Adolin thinks Shallan wouldn't hurt a fly so he'd probably be rather shocked to find out she killed someone the day before he met her for the first time... for example. I don't particularly like the idea of Adolin and Shallan's relationship getting stuck / going backwards for the whole of book 3 due to the murder. Just seems too predictable (ie boring). Also, it doesn't seem like much of a challenge. Also, if Adolin is imprisoned or similar and their relationship has gone bad then they have no reason to meet - ie in such a scenario they basically wouldn't interact much for the entire book. Again, this just seems dull. Some have theorised that Adolin will revive the spren in his Shardblade. I like this idea and if he gets stuck in prison for a long time then this would be the ideal opportunity. It would allow for him to end the book on a very positive note too - maybe come to the rescue of the others when the crem hits the fan. Though I also do agree with others that yet-another-Radiant-Kholin is getting a bit much without a really solid reason behind it (for all we know Galivar was a Bondsmith before Dalinar and did something). I do want to see Shallan go head-to-head with Ialai. Early in WoR she fears the Alethi court will eat her alive. I'd like to see her prove to herself otherwise and also give some of the nasty Brightladies a good kicking. I want Dalinar to get challenged over morals etc (so that he can grow). He's had it far too easy so far - the other Highprinces are too obviously wrong compared to him. His heart is in the right place but his view on humanity is too simple. He needs to be challenged in this regard and I think Shallan would be well placed to constructively challenge his assumptions - not because she's a paragon of morality but because she's faced lots of difficult decisions already where there is no obvious right answer (which is not to say that Dalinar has faced none/few!). Dalinar has many difficult decisions to make - not just in how to save the world but also how to unite people and make it a better place. These are not things he's used to. Hopefully, the whole situation with Adolin and Sadeas will allow him to realise the consequences of his actions and inactions - my view is that Adolin would not have had to do what he did if Dalinar had handled Sadeas better. Renarin definitely needs to be involved in the plot more. I'm not sure what I want with Kaladin and Jasnah. I don't particularly want them to be in the background for most of the book but I don't want to see some boring side quests either though I think them being outside of Urithiru would be a good opportunity to see what's happening "on the ground" with the Everstorm etc.
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Damnation you guys are prolific! Hmm, I could do another post trying to clarify some things but I think that's getting boring. So instead, I'll just talk about some things I'd like to see (or not like to see), not in general but more relating to the murder and secondary effects. Sorry It may sound perverse or creepy but I like the idea that Adolin showing a darker side allows Shallan to see him more as a real person and she starts to open up to Adolin about some of the dark things she's done. I suspect Adolin thinks Shallan wouldn't hurt a fly so he'd probably be rather shocked to find out she killed someone the day before he met her for the first time... for example. I don't particularly like the idea of Adolin and Shallan's relationship getting stuck / going backwards for the whole of book 3 due to the murder. Just seems too predictable (ie boring). Also, it doesn't seem like much of a challenge. Also, if Adolin is imprisoned or similar and their relationship has gone bad then they have no reason to meet - ie in such a scenario they basically wouldn't interact much for the entire book. Again, this just seems dull. A darker ruthless side is quite possible... I'd like to see him becoming a rogue force, bending the laws to the extreme while following his heart and doing what he believes is good. I think he and Shallan have the potential to become a real power couple. I would hate for them to break up simply because Adolin murdered Sadeas. I see them having issues and I see them struggle, but I would like them to make it up. I do see Adolin wanting to end it as he enthralls himself in his own dark toughs, thinking he is not good enough for her anymore. However, I would love for Shallan to call him out on that one and refusing to have him have his way. Some have theorised that Adolin will revive the spren in his Shardblade. I like this idea and if he gets stuck in prison for a long time then this would be the ideal opportunity. It would allow for him to end the book on a very positive note too - maybe come to the rescue of the others when the crem hits the fan. Though I also do agree with others that yet-another-Radiant-Kholin is getting a bit much without a really solid reason behind it (for all we know Galivar was a Bondsmith before Dalinar and did something). I am absolutely a 100% behind this idea, but I give about a 30% chance of happening... I personally would love to see his sword start to respond to his long monologues. I would love to see the sword start behaving irrationally as Adolin gets more and more reckless/brave. However, I think that if he indeed becomes a Radiant, he will have it the rough way. His path will be laborious at best. I do no see it as yet another Kohlin Radiant because I believe he deserves it more than most of the others. He would make an amazing Radiant and it would be dump for him to pass it out just because he is named Kohlin. I do want to see Shallan go head-to-head with Ialai. Early in WoR she fears the Alethi court will eat her alive. I'd like to see her prove to herself otherwise and also give some of the nasty Brightladies a good kicking. Love this. After seeing Shallan freaking out at Adolin's poor attempt at protection, I would love to see her protecting him. What best way could she be doing this than going against the one person who will most likely try to harm him? Brilliant. I want Dalinar to get challenged over morals etc (so that he can grow). He's had it far too easy so far - the other Highprinces are too obviously wrong compared to him. His heart is in the right place but his view on humanity is too simple. He needs to be challenged in this regard and I think Shallan would be well placed to constructively challenge his assumptions - not because she's a paragon of morality but because she's faced lots of difficult decisions already where there is no obvious right answer (which is not to say that Dalinar has faced none/few!). Dalinar has many difficult decisions to make - not just in how to save the world but also how to unite people and make it a better place. These are not things he's used to. Hopefully, the whole situation with Adolin and Sadeas will allow him to realise the consequences of his actions and inactions - my view is that Adolin would not have had to do what he did if Dalinar had handled Sadeas better. Yes. Agree. 100%. He thinks he is so much better than anyone else just because he has grown out of his warrior ways. He is not and he is about to find that out as he will struggle with his son. I agree he does share some of the fault in Adolin's fall. He has failed to deal with Sadeas in an appropriate way, he knew how his son antagonized over Sadeas, he knew his son does not have complete self-control over himself just yet and is prone to brashness, he must have known about Sadeas's tauntings... He also fail to notice his son was not feeling well after moving to Urithiru. Basically, Adolin's actions could have been prevented if people close to him had been more aware of his starting inner turmoil. As a father, Dalinar will most likely feel some guilt over what happened, but more importantly, he will have to realize you can't just blindly apply laws and codes as their are exceptions. Renarin definitely needs to be involved in the plot more. I want more Renarin/Adolin relationship. Some Renarin/Dalinar would be fun too. I'm not sure what I want with Kaladin and Jasnah. I don't particularly want them to be in the background for most of the book but I don't want to see some boring side quests either though I think them being outside of Urithiru would be a good opportunity to see what's happening "on the ground" with the Everstorm etc. I do not want Jasnah to become a main character until she joins the main crew. He trip to Urithiru does not sound like such an interesting story unless she meets with some other character. I am ambivalent about Kal. We have had a lot of him lately, so I wouldn't mind of his story to take less page time. Bottom line, I want most of the chapters dealing with the Kohlins in Urithiru and Shallan. Edit: Based on the preview chapter from Stones Unhallowed I have just heard, we are going to see Kaladin's side quest in detail. And he said something whiny Sight. No more whining Kal, pleeeeeeeeeeease I implore you. Edited July 8, 2014 by maxal
Aleksiel Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Edit: Based on the preview chapter from Stones Unhallowed I have just heard, we are going to see Kaladin's side quest in detail. And he said something whiny Sight. No more whining Kal, pleeeeeeeeeeease I implore you. Wait, what?! There's a preview chapter already? I don't see it on Brandon's site. Link, please! 1
Fifth of Daybreak he/him Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Wait, what?! There's a preview chapter already? I don't see it on Brandon's site. Link, please! Yes please share. And if someone could fix my accidental downvote on Aleksiel's post I'd appreciate it.
Moogle Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Wait, what?! There's a preview chapter already? I don't see it on Brandon's site. Link, please! Yes please share. And if someone could fix my accidental downvote on Aleksiel's post I'd appreciate it. I just found it on reddit. Here's a link: http://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/2a490q/wor_first_look_at_stones_unhallowed/ 4
Aleksiel Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Thanks! So Kaladin doesn't beat the everstorm to Hearthstone? I didn't expect that, honestly. Will Lirin die in his arms or something? That would be horrible.
Guest Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Sorry I went to bed and I forgot to post the link. I saw it on Adonalsium. Yeah, Kal does not beat the everstorm to Heartstone and we have some interesting tip bits on the eye color and on the effect of using massive amounts of stormlight. I guess I should move to the other discussion thread on the matter.
Pathfinder Posted July 9, 2014 Posted July 9, 2014 Sorry I went to bed and I forgot to post the link. I saw it on Adonalsium. Yeah, Kal does not beat the everstorm to Heartstone and we have some interesting tip bits on the eye color and on the effect of using massive amounts of stormlight. I guess I should move to the other discussion thread on the matter. Could you link where you move the discussion thread so I can continue to follow? I am hesitant about spoilers, but my curiosity about the tid bits regarding eye color is killing me lol.
Guest Posted July 9, 2014 Posted July 9, 2014 Could you link where you move the discussion thread so I can continue to follow? I am hesitant about spoilers, but my curiosity about the tid bits regarding eye color is killing me lol. Sure. It is going on here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/13089-fantasycon-reading/ There's talk about many things happening in the chapter, not just about the eye color. Oh and just to spoil you because I cannot resist: Kal eyes went back to brown.
Horatio Spifflewicket Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Ahem. Spoiler only post ahead. That was Evil. Funny, but Evil. Do not go anywhere near Nightblood. Upvote for Maxal.
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